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    • Yes Shiloh357, I am aware of 2Tim. 3:15-16. I am also aware how often it is used to profess Sola Scriptura (Bible alone). However, this passage simply says Scripture is inspired and useful. Catholics totally agree. Water is necessary for my existence but is it all I need? Most certainly not. The passage says nothing against Tradition. Interestingly, there was no New Testament written back then so if this passage was saying Scripture is all we need, it would be saying that the New Testament wasn't necessary, which is obviously untrue. You have a bit of a problem here Shiloh. As I stated above, there was no New Testament written back then. The early Church was about community and unity. They came together around the Eucharist in the Breaking of Bread. They didn't have a Bible, just a bunch of letters and stories, and the Greek Old Testament (Septuagint), which contained the Deuterocanonical books that were omitted from Protestant Bibles after the Reformation in the 1500's. Even after the Church decided on thebookas of the bible in 397 AD most people could not read until well into the Middle Ages. In those days they would look at the stained glass pictures in the Churches and hear the stories about Jesus' life. Okay, lets talk abot Jesus. He (Jesus) did not write any books of the Bible. Jesus chose NOT to write but rather to build his Church, and 30-60 years later He inspired the members of his Church write down the Gospels. Several hundred years after that, He inspired members of his Church to decide what books belong in the Bible. Nowhere in the Bible does it say the Bible alone is the only authority. However, the Bible does say that Jesus founded his Church and gave it all authority. (Mat 16:18) The Jews went to great pains to ensure that their worship would conform to the instructions which God gave to Moses on Mount Sinai. God's call to his people was a call to holiness: "be holy, for I am holy" (Lev. 11:44; 19:2). In their zeal for holiness many elders developed elaborate traditions which became a burden for the people to carry out in their everyday lives. The Scribes and Pharisees were upset with Jesus because he allowed his disciples to break with their ritual traditions by eating with unclean hands. They sent a delegation all the way from Jerusalem to Galilee to bring their accusation in a face-to-face confrontation with Jesus. Jesus dealt with their accusation by going to the heart of the matter -- by looking at God's intention and purpose for the commandments. Jesus gave an example of how their use of ritual tradition excused them from fulfilling the commandment to honor one's father and mother. If someone wanted to avoid the duty of financially providing for their parents in old age or sickness they could say that their money or goods were an offering "given over to God" and thus exempt from any claim of charity or duty to help others. They broke God's law to fulfull a law of their own making. Jesus explained that they void God's command because they allowed their hearts and minds to be clouded by their own notions of religion. Jesus accused them specifically of two things. First of hypocrisy. Like actors, who put on a show, they appear to obey God's word in their external practices while they inwardly harbor evil desires and intentions. Secondly, he accused them of abandoning God's word by substituting their own arguments and ingenious interpretations for what God requires. They listened to clever arguments rather than to God's word. Jesus refers them to the prophecy of Is. (29:31) where the prophet accuses the people of his day for honoring God with their lips while their hearts went astray because of disobedience to God's laws. I disagree. Here are some biblical passages that Catholics feel speak for the need to observe tradition as well as Scripture. It is important to note that Catholics believe that the traditions they have embraced are not contrary to the Bible, we use tradition to clarify positions that are outlined and intimated there. "...hold to the traditions which you were taught by us, either by word of mouth or by letter" (not only written) 2 Thes 2:15 "Take as your norm the sound words that you heard from me." Not written but spoken. 2 Tim 1:13 ".I would rather not use pen and ink, but hope to come to see you and talk with you face to face." 2 John 12 "I still have many things to say to you, but you cannot bear them now. When the Spirit of truth comes, he will guide you into all the truth." John 16:12 2 Tim 3:16 does not condemn tradition. Mat 15 condemns the traditions of men not apostolic tradition. There are many other things that Jesus did. . the whole world could not hold the books that could be written. Jn 21:25 I have sent my angel to announce these things to you in the churches. Rev 22:16 1 Corinthians 11:2 . . . maintain the traditions . . . even as I have delivered them to you. 2 Thessalonians 3:6 . . . the tradition that you received from us. 1 Corinthians 15:1 . . . the gospel, which you received . . . Galatians 1:9 . . . the gospel . . . which you received. 1 Thessalonians 2:9 . . . we preached to you the gospel of God. Acts 8:14 . . . Samaria had received the word of God . . . 1 Thessalonians 2:13 . . . you received the word of God, which you heard from us, . . . 2 Peter 2:21 . . . the holy commandment delivered to them. Jude 3 . . . the faith which was once for all delivered to the saints. Peace
    • One more question about book of Psalms. I now know that Psalms are mixed up in numbers in some versions, but still lines sometimes do not mach here probably fist instance of such thing. Vulgate & Douay-Rheims Vs. NIV and other common now versions: Line seems 13 missing completely. Texts taken from: http://www.latinvulgate.com/lv/verse.aspx?t=0&b=21&c=2
      http://www.biblestudytools.com/parallel-bible/passage/?q=psalm+2&t=vul&t2=niv
    • So you are saying the islands and mountains fled away, or were not found, then God remade them, put them back in their places, and then destroyed them again? And that God did this twice so he could destroy them three times? Post scripture that says this is going to happen and I'll change my mind. Cause one would think that if we were going to witness such a cataclysmic creative act, something would be written about it.  And what about the questions in the OP? Care to weigh in? Maybe you did and I missed the post?
    • Well with all the bickering and discussions and arguments here I thought it might be nice to have a praise thread. No a lot of words and no arguing/discussing please just a quick praise...i'll go 1st.     Thank you Jesus for saving me.
    • Yes, that is exactly what I am saying. In the Exodus era, three separate great earthquake events took place: at Mount Sinai, at Korah's rebellion, and at Joshua's long day. Those three events of the past are types and shadows of the three separate earthquake events in Rev. 6, Rev. 11, and Rev. 16, respectively. They represented the spirit/ruach-level, nephesh/soul-level, and flesh/basar-level judgments of God which took place then, and will take place again, in the same order.
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