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Monarchy - in all the years I've been at Worthy, the KJV only has been one of the most heated debates on the forums. It brings out the claws in some, the compassion in others. It's really amazing to me how polarized this topic is. Now - let me tell you - and everyone else - about me. I suppose I could be classified as a KJV only as well. That's all I read, and all I want to read. However, it's not because I've studied the histories of that and all the other versions. Nope. It's because God speaks to me when I read it. That's not to say that He wouldn't speak to me if I read an ESV or ASV or whatever version, but when He FIRST spoke to me it was in the beautiful pages of a KJV. Therefore, knowing that was a fruitful well, that's where I return again, and again. Pure and simple, eh? I have friends who read other versions, and tell me that He speaks to them through those versions. I don't doubt it and I don't question it since it is the Holy Spirit within us that connects us and teaches us and guides us to those moments. It's just my hope that those who think the KJV is the only avenue through which God can speak will come to understand that the Holy Spirit is aware of any errors, and can guide the people in spite of them. I won't tag you, my friend, unless it's to recall that we walk the same path, growing ever closer to the finish line. Just don't let the idea of a tag sidetrack you. We still have a long way to travel.

Well, I think it's a bit absurd to suggest that we ought to curb our debate and disagreements simply because someone who shares none of our beliefs might use them as fodder for jokes or insults. They're atheists which means they don't have the same moral compass that we do. This thread of theirs about us is proof of that. I lost count of how many of them admitted to joining Worthy with straight up lies about who they were and what they believed. That's something I sincerely hope no Christian would do. They share countless insults about how stupid they think we all are, take snips of various posts and threads out of context and hang all of us by whatever they interpret those few words to mean or imply. It's precisely the same thing they do with the Bible. They rip it apart, siting infinite "contradictions" in an effort to defend their position. I read some of the thread. Couldn't stomach the whole thing. Too many of them were just too proud of themselves for being unabashed liars. Worthy has, as long as I've been here at least, always made a real effort to be open to all comers, so long as they agree to be respectful. That includes atheists and others who might not share our general fundamental beliefs. The only reason for anyone to come here under false pretenses is for the sole purpose of mocking us. Period. Not only is that rude, but it's hypocritical considering how often they complain about us being intolerant or judgmental. I find it interesting that they accuse us of being bigots, homophobes and any other unflattering word you can think of, yet do not see that they are just as bad when they mock us simply for having different beliefs than their own. In short, it's a tremendous shame that they hate us so much that they'd take pleasure in lying to us. And interesting that they see that as perfectly moral and acceptable. But then what else can they do? They have no moral center, no reason to curb their hateful nature. Very sad.

This is something that I see practiced a lot more in today's day and age. Women while some have done the most amazing things for God in the OT and NT days, I am curious as to what scripture says about women leading in the church. It has always been my belief that men, like they are in the Christian Family Home, are also supposed to be the Leaders in the Church Family. These are some of the key scriptures that I have gained such insight from. Is the understanding I have of these passages correct? Are there scriptures condoning as well as promoting women in church leadership roles? 1 Timothy 2:11-15 "Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection. But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence. 13For Adam was first formed, then Eve. 14And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression. 15Notwithstanding she shall be saved in childbearing, if they continue in faith and charity and holiness with sobriety." Women cannot lead the church according to much of the scriptures I have read. That is a position resigned for men. Though women are encouraged to teach one another. Nor are they necessarily discouraged from educating or ministering to children. Titus 2:3-5 "The older women likewise, that they be reverent in behavior, not slanderers, not given to much wine, teachers of good things - 4 that they admonish the young women to love their husbands, to love their children, 5 to be discreet, chaste, a homemakers, good, b obedient to their own husbands, c that the word of God may not be blasphemed." Church leadership roles are defined as those for men. 1 Timothy 3:1-13 "1 This is a faithful saying: If a man desires the position of a 1 bishop, he desires a good work. 2 A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, temperate, sober-minded, of good behavior, hospitable, able to teach; 3 not 2 given to wine, not violent, 3 not greedy for money, but gentle, not quarrelsome, not 4 covetous; 4 one who rules his own house well, having his children in submission with all reverence 5 (for if a man does not know how to rule his own house, how will he take care of the church of God?); 6 not a 5 novice, lest being puffed up with pride he fall into the same condemnation as the devil. 7 Moreover he must have a good testimony among those who are outside, lest he fall into reproach and the a snare of the devil. " Please do not think this is an attempt to demean women. I am one, and glad God made me so. Just want to have a better and proper understanding of our roles in scripture as well as ministry. Thank you. May God Bless You Dani

This is the center of so many problems! How many have ever sat and watched a bunch of Jewish men midrash? lol We could all learn a thing or two from them. They sit around and it looks like they are arguing, fighting, then they finished get up shake hands hug and know that not one of them is angry over their readings and opinions on scriptures havent been taken as the whole truth of Yahweh. People take themselves way too seriously when it comes to their understanding of the bible. I am thankful to be apart of a fellowship where we can disagree, and often we do see things a bit differently, but we still can sit down at the table and break bread together, worship and love Him as a family.

I do believe this thread is over the edge. The title itself is offinsive and I wonder if that's not Years real agenda.

And incomprehensible to boot. Sheesh, that just about made my eyes cross.

In regards to the last pack of atheist trolls that galloped through here......let's be charitable and pity them. They have nothing, they represent nothing and they're heading for an eternal nothing. They did no damage here, they changed no minds or hearts; they simply moved a little closer to oblivion. Collecting snippets and posts to pile in the middle of their circle as they cackle with glee? How pathetic IS that? Let's just pray they will find the Truth as they stumble about on their way to eternal damnation. It's very sad.

None of what you posted, Year, reflects the heart of God.

Grace to you, This is a twisted and skewed view of the Gospel. There was no evolving for Jesus Christ. All Christians believe that Jesus Christ was God come in the Flesh. That He came to Save us from Judgement and that this was a desperate act of Love. That while He was God that He was man and that likewise He was tempted in all manner as man himself. Becoming man was not a mocking attempt but a self indentification with His Creation. Stooping down and being Baptized when it wasn't necessary speaks of this. Man is the "Imago Dei" of God. Man is made in the Image of God. There is no mocking there by Christ. Rather Christ came to be, to Save, and to show mankind what he really was intended to be and was made for. Where are you getting this stuff from? Peace, Dave

You know this has been a most interesting thread. And I am going to try and stick my oar in again . It is in our nature to label a person on certain characteristics that they display, in truth my handle came from such a label. If we allow these labels to effect us, then we in effect confirm those labels in other peoples eyes. For example, Monarchy has stressed he hates being called a KJVO kind of guy, yet the more he has argued against such a label, the more it makes me think that it is an apt label (just using it as an example man. As far as I am concerned you are a fellow bro who prefers a particular translation above all others). So what to do about it? Well as childish as this may seem, there is an old kids rhyme that I think does apply here; "Sticks and Stones may break my bones, but words cannot hurt me". I personally have been given more labels than i care to think about, and most of them have not been attractive or good, and when I allowed them to hurt me I would get all agnry and just feed the fire. once I learned just to ignore the labels, then I began to see that people would be willing to change that label once they began to know me.

And here, I believe is the crux of the issue. People who don't regard the KJV as "God's translation" really, really hate it when those that do treat us like heathens. OK, I'm exaggerating. But still, what you have said here truly grates our skin. And this, I believe, is why you hate the "KJV only" label because you perceive yourself as the holder of truth and everyone else is wrong; the label points the finger back at you, and you don't like this. So in essence, it isn't the label that grates you, but the implication that others perceive your view as not God's truth. Am I correct? I have tried very hard not to address the person, but a inaccurate manuscript and post 1900 bible, If I have failed in that area then I do apologize, I am just trying to address the pollution of God's word. If you knew I had a tumor, wouldn't you want me to have surgery to cut it out. It's an untruth to say I've treat you all like a heathen, it is because you are not heathen, but my family, is the reason I post. Who is he that convicts me of sin, do they have a pure conscience regarding me, I have taken extreme heat for my stand. Ever heard of the saying, "Steel sharpens Steel?" You ought to be prepared to give an answer in season and out and it should be seasoned with Grace.

I won't participate in this discussion. But I'll provide an overview of the movie......so it can be discussed clearly. http://www.focusonthefamily.com/parenting/protecting_your_family/book-reviews/h/hunger-games.aspx

When did I say we shouldn't 'rush to judgement' about Fort Hood, or for that matter, say that we should make grandoise assumptions, stir violence, or call for murder? This is a strawman. Debate what I said. Not what somebody else said. Here's what we know. Zimmerman stalked a kid from his car, calling the police because there had been break-ins. Trayvon talked to his girlfriend on the phone, saying "There's someone following me", and put his hood up, and kept walking. Zimmerman, (who had a gun) approached Trayvon after being told not to by the 911 operator. He said a racial slur during the phone call. There was a scuffle. Trayvon got shot. Witnesses called the police and don't really seem to favour Zimmerman's account. We know that Zimmerman had called the police some 47 times, and has been accused of domestic violence. Neither of those are terribly healthy patterns of behaviour. Those are facts that we know. You quoted The Blaze. The Blaze insinuated that because Trayvon had been suspended from school once for ten days, he could have done any number of things, and proceeds to list things lincluding theft, homicide, arson, sexual battery, armed robbery, and more. That seems an awful lot like insinuating someone is a malcontent, except without facts.

So, have you always come to the 'word' with preconceived ideas, better to come as a empty slate for God to write on. Brother Monarchy, I am way past the 'empty slate' & the preconceived ideas stages. When I learned I couldn't prove the so called rapture from the scripture--I was crushed because I had thought I had it all figured out in my neat little box. Not only was I crushed, I was also humbled, because my pride took a beating. I have come to find that our God can NOT be placed in a box of my choosing & that His thoughts are WAY over ours. I have also found that when I ask Him to show me what He means, He does. Usually, not immediately, but He guides me through His scripture & gives me information as I am able to receive it. There are several things that have been on my 'back burner' for a while, but I know He will answer---He has an awesome track record in that area! I believe that there is a wealth of information that the Father wants to reveal to us & a lot of us (myself included) have not grown to the place He can. Usually, when He keeps bringing something to my attention, like the phrase 'Jacob's trouble', it means He is trying to tell me something. That is what prompted the OP & I have to look into it with the revelation I already have, without preconceived ideas.

The roles are obviously very clear. The problem with today is people have made it a discrimination issue. I have heard many.clever attempts to claim otherwise, but scripture is very clear, and no amount of smooth talking can change what's in black and white. Restricting women from being ministers is not sexist. It is simply the roles assigned to men and women. Just as men cannot be mothers and women cannot be fathers.