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enoch2021 here you go. Umm, I think you completely missed what I was saying. Christ's redemptive power flowed backwards to cover the sins of the saints of the past, as well as moved forward covering the sins of future believers. This "old song" question is a red-herring and a misdirection on your part. The original quotes were: ...and i was referring to your bolding of "sung a new song" and the reason for the "a new song". If you don't know the reason for the new song, please re-read Rev 5:1-8. Please, stay on topic and I'll be more than happy to humor you. Nope. Didn't contradict myself. I know exactly my thought process. He, Christ, The Lion of the tribe of Juda, the root of Jesse was slain and worth to take the book. Rev 5:9 And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation; And this happened the during his crucifixion, burial and resurrection. He was the ultimate sacrifice. Don't you see it!? Revelation, the revealing of Christ, is telling us what and how it happened. Elders were in heaven (Rev 4:4) before claiming to be made priests and kings (Rev 5:10). Considering who or what is missing from other books of prophecy... The wheels are missing from John's heavenly vision. Mark of the beast is missing from Ezekiel. No angels mentioned in Ezekiel. No Trumpets in Daniel. There are a number of things that are in some books of prophecy that are not in others. Since they are missing from OT prophetic books, you believe that the elders represent the raptured church. Well, that's quite an assumption really. Can you provide some scripture that relates the number of elders (twenty-four) with the church in some manner? Not contrived. Found in 1 Chronicles. I provided the scripture. If you want to refuse looking at it, I cannot help with that. Notice in Rev 4:4 Rev 4:4 KJV And round about the throne were four and twenty seats: and upon the seats I saw four and twenty elders sitting, clothed in white raiment; and they had on their heads crowns of gold. These were separate seats surrounding the throne of God. But we see in Rev 3:21, those that overcome (believers, christians, overcomers, etc) are able to sit in the throne with Christ as Christ sits in the throne with the Father, not in separate seats. Rev 3:21 KJV To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne. So you are saying Christ's redemptive work only went forward, and did not cover the sins of saints prior to his work on the cross? Wow, I'll bet John the baptist would be disappointed to know Enoch2021 has limited Christ's redemptive power. John, having baptized the Lamb of God that takes away the sins of the world, except his and anyone before his time. Dang! and he was so close. <end sarcasm> So it's not symbolic? Just idomatic and sometimes literal? Or maybe it's symbolic sometimes, idiomatic sometimes, figurative at other and literal all the rest. Or maybe it's a totally spiritual book (since John is in the spirit at least 4 times throughout the book) and to understand it, we need to listen to the Holy Spirit and allow him to open our spiritual eyes with his eye salve (this is figurative, unless you know of a place that is selling spiritual eye salve). It doesn't even have to be symbolic. There are a number of things mentioned in Revelation that relate to Old Testament and New Testament scripture: 24 elders in Revelation. 24 "sanctuary governors" Earthquakes in Revelation. There were earthquakes at Christ's crucifixion. Sun black as sackcloth. The sun was blackened at Christ's crucifixion (for three hours). The cube form of new Jerusalem. The Holy of Holies was a cube. Rev 16:6 the shed blood of saints. Christ rebukes the Pharisees for killing the prophets and saints (Matth 23:29-36) and shedding their blood from Abel to Zechariah. Do you have something church related that can account for the 24 elders? Probably not.

========================================================================= oh my Please keep your Conjured Baseless Unsupported "guesses" concerning me personally, to yourself. This is speaking volumes Key Statement..."I Believe". So you make conclusions off basically Zero Data both Qualitatively and Quantitatively ?? ..... Which are basically "guesses'. Ok, lets put you to the test....What's my favorite color? If I need your help, I'll ask you. I don't do "translations". Show WITH SUPPORT.... it's "not normal meaning" in the AKJV. You've basically said nothing here and I could care less concerning "katechon" that you've gotten from corrupt manuscripts. All you had to say was this...."The restrainer somehow stands in relationship to the lawless one." to save yourself some typing. And brings us back to the start point. Paul is writing to the Thessalonians in response to a forgery that was circulating because that had either thought they missed "The Rapture" or were Mis-Taught. With special emphasis on False Teachers. All I have done is used Common Sense by the clear reading of the Text (AKJV) in English and in Greek. satan "restraining" or "holding himself back" is not only Preposterous Conceptually.....it puts him in charge. Which is stupefying just from a cursory review of Scripture and more Specifically the Book of JOB. You have got to be kidding me? This whole post for this nonsense? Who's Restraining Christ?? For the Record? Go ahead? Hopefully it's a Noun and not a Present Active Participle Verb I must warn you....changing of The WORD of GOD is not a very good thing sir. (2 Thessalonians 2:7-8) "For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way. {8} And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:" When "he" is taken out of the Way......-------->THEN <------- "that wicked" be revealed. The "he" is the Antithesis of "that wicked". Pretty Clear Cut.

Psychics and mediums are, for the most part, frauds and charlatans. The few that have 'powers' get them straight from satan himself. If you never let this stuff in....you don't have to try to get it out again. Seems like a no-brainer to me.