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All the other kingdoms, refers to the three previously mentioned. It's poor hermeneutics to change the definition of a word from one sentence to the next. Kingdom is consistently used here of the empires, not the individual city-states that comprised the empire.

Okay, I've seen a number of threads here asking "What should I do?" referring to some problem or another. A lot of the answers are passive, effectively telling the asker to rely on God and explaining how helpless we are without him. Somebody is looking for a spouse - they are told be patient and wait. Somebody else wants a new job, they are just told to pray and wait for God to answer. Somebody else may have a problem with addiction. They are told that they can't succeed through their own efforts, instead they should just ask God. But is that what God really wants? It seems to me to be a lazy and irresponsible way to live your life. Throughout the OT we read of God asking the Jews to do something. For example, when we expects the Jews to fight their enemies, he actually asks them to do it. He doesn't just say "sit back lads and leave it to me" and then go on a fire and thunder spree while the Jews just sit back and watch. He expects them to get involved through their own efforts. He just promises them victory and tells them that he has their backs. In other words, if they try, he will take care of the rest. Should we not do that? Does God not want us to develop our characters through our own efforts? Is there not a time when we are ever expected to just get up and do things for ourselves, using of course the talents and skills that God gave us in the first place?

I am entering into an open discussion. Please present YOUR views as to WHY there are dozens of warnings written to churches about: SIN RESULTS IN ETERNAL DEATH. Now, to be fair, these verses are strictly talking about habitual unrepented-of sin! I.E. a lifestyle of good olde fashioned old-man type sinning! And this has been done historically by some who erroneously have been indoctrinated into OSAS! I.E. that is why OSAS is from the pits of hell. Sin results in "death" which Jesus took our place. When we are saved, we accept what he has done for us and our sin is forgiven. Okay, great, this is what is taught in Kindergarden. But, the little kiddos who are guzzling milk are not reading Scripture. I have progressed past that stage ... I indulge in the occasional beer. Scripture says to be on solid food (meat) instead of milk, not to be indulging in beer. The bible tells us not to be drunk too.

Philippians 1:6 (NLT) And I am certain that God, who began the good work within you, will continue his work until it is finally finished on the day when Christ Jesus returns. 2 Corinthians 1:22 who also has sealed us and given us the Spirit in our hearts as a guarantee. Ephesians 1:13 In Him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise,

You make a valid point about Jesus’ sermon on the mount being before the gospel was well-known. I included it to show how serious sin is to God. And there are multitudes of verses threatening loss of eternal life to ANYONE who is involved in habitual unrepented-of sin! … Some are in the OP list. Here’s one … “Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor sodomites, nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God.” (1 Cor 6:9-10) This applies to everyone on the planet, and I can show from Scripture that entering the kingdom of God/heaven is equivalent to go to heaven. Now, will these people come around later? … Heb 10:26+ says there is a cut-off point. So really, that's what all of the dozens of warnings are all about, i.e. OSAS is from the pits of hell. IMO, you’ve got a big problem with righteousness! Does one need to be righteous in God’s eyes to enter heaven? Check the end of Matt 25, and then verses such as: “… let no one deceive you. He who practices righteousness is righteous” (1 John 3:7) It’s the old story: is God playing games with us? … I.E. is the reverse of the above true? If the BAC is not practicing his imputed righteousness, this proves that he is no longer righteous! We are to choose to be “(slaves) of obedience leading to righteousness” (Romans 6:16) “… so now present your members as slaves of righteousness for holiness.” (Romans 6:19) So, everything is conditional: God's INITIAL grace, righteousness, salvation, etc. may be carelessly rejected and thrown away! Wow, I just went and read the passage in 1 Cor 6 that you quoted as your champion verse. But you stopped at verse 10, and now I see why! v11: "And such were some of you. But you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus and by the Spirit of our God". This begins with the passage about going to the law with a believer, and having an attitude of forgiveness, and he's reminding them of how much they owe because they have been forgiven, and should walk worthy of the debt they owed. In no way is he talking about their salvation! It goes better for your case if you 1) read the passages you've quoted, and the context and 2) don't accuse others of heresy based on your limited understanding. If you study the Word, you will find that both responsibility and security are sound doctrin; they are each opposing sides to the same coin. Reliance on just one or the other leads to problems- either a works trip for the responsibility crowd, or cheap grace by the security crowd. Try to understand what the whole counsel of God is saying here, both in the verses you've been told to rely on, and those that the folks here have provided. It's the same truth, but God has given a perspective of it from many angles. Don't be the blind man that only feels one part of the elephant!

I am entering into an open discussion. Please present YOUR views as to WHY there are dozens of warnings written to churches about: SIN RESULTS IN ETERNAL DEATH. Now, to be fair, these verses are strictly talking about habitual unrepented-of sin! I.E. a lifestyle of good olde fashioned old-man type sinning! And this has been done historically by some who erroneously have been indoctrinated into OSAS! I.E. that is why OSAS is from the pits of hell. Sin results in "death" which Jesus took our place. When we are saved, we accept what he has done for us and our sin is forgiven. Okay, great, this is what is taught in Kindergarden. But, the little kiddos who are guzzling milk are not reading Scripture. I have progressed past that stage ... I indulge in the occasional beer. It's taught because it is true. You make poor points here.

ALL of our sins---past present and future are all cleansed by the blood at Calvary. That is what God's GRACE has done. We are fully bought. As born again Christians we then embark on a RELATIONSHIP with God. He corrects and encourages, chastises and blesses. He will not lose one of His own.

I am entering into an open discussion. Please present YOUR views as to WHY there are dozens of warnings written to churches about: SIN RESULTS IN ETERNAL DEATH. Now, to be fair, these verses are strictly talking about habitual unrepented-of sin! I.E. a lifestyle of good olde fashioned old-man type sinning! And this has been done historically by some who erroneously have been indoctrinated into OSAS! I.E. that is why OSAS is from the pits of hell. Sin results in "death" which Jesus took our place. When we are saved, we accept what he has done for us and our sin is forgiven. Okay, great, this is what is taught in Kindergarden. But, the little kiddos who are guzzling milk are not reading Scripture. I have progressed past that stage. Don't ridicule the simple truth of God's salvation message. A child can understand it. Jesus took ALL our sin, it is not imputed to us. If you think that we can lose salvation despite being sons and daughters of God, then you have not progressed past the milk. Take another swig.

Read 2 Timothy 2:13 and you will see that nothing threatens the loss of anyone's salvation. If we could lose our salvation, we'd all be going to hell. None of us are good enough to hold on to salvation. But Christ's forgiveness is perfect. He'll never let me go according to 2 Timothy.

Your righteousness is worthless. Have a look at Isaiah 64:6 to see what God thinks of your righteousness. He thinks your very best, is disgusting. That's why you need His righteousness. "The righteous" or "the just" in Paul's writings are those that have received the imputed righteousness of (from) God. 21 But now the righteousness of God apart from the law is revealed, being witnessed by the Law and the Prophets, 22 even the righteousness of God, through faith in Jesus Christ, to all and on all[fn] who believe. For there is no difference; 23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, 24 being justified freely by His grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus, Do we also have responsibility? Yes. To believe is also to obey. Obedience is evidence of belief, real belief. But believers still slip, still sin, and still have a sin nature. But His love is what constrains us, not fear of His wrath. We are His children, co-heirs with Christ, who are urged to call Him "Abba, Father".

how do you tell the difference between a Hamas solder and an Israeli solder? The Israeli solder is the one in front of the kids.

Okay, sounds good. I'm busy too playing golf. Ha I'm glad you didn't misinterpret my "stern" words and saw humor in them. You rock. Spock out By the way, great maps. Theses visuals help.

"People" is in the original text, and folks have made a choice to render it "marriage" to make the sentence easier to read (have I mentioned that I dislike paraphrases?). I guess I don't see evidence, in either the statue or the world today, that the papal and ottoman empires are still around. I see pieces of each in all of the middle east and europe, and this leads me to think the ten toes/ten horns can be from any part of the whole Roman empire. In a sense, the ten toes reinforces this- 5 toes from each foot! The roman church today does undoubtedly wield significant influence, but it isn't a world government or empire. At best, it might be a toe or a horn; heck, one of its members may even be the little horn. When you (I won't be here ) see the ten, there will be no need for conjecture.

In 13:1 the seven heads/ten horns/ten crowns are introduced, and 13:2a is added so you know for sure what his frame of reference is. I see all of Rev 13:2a as a reference to Dan 7, so that you would know that the ten horns of Rev 13 are in the same idiom as the ten horns of Dan 7. Then, only the heads and horns are dealt with in the remainder of the chapter. I don't see 13:2 as adding to the description of the heads/horns, just telling you that he's using Dan 7 as the background for this beast.

I think one area where you are going off-track is with the clay. You're reading significance into the soft/hard aspects of clay, but I don't think that is valid. I've never seen a useful pot made with soft clay, for instance. Since the idiom is defined in the very next verse, I think that's the one that should be used, and it is consistent with the clay idiom throughout scripture: [Dan 2:43 NKJV] "As you saw iron mixed with ceramic clay, they will mingle with the seed of men; but they will not adhere to one another, just as iron does not mix with clay. It seems you're reading a religious overtone into the clay, and thus trying to fit in the papacy or islam. I think the more scripturally supported view is that the clay is simply people.

Thank you very much. These are great!

We agree on so much regarding Rome, that I feel a little bad for focussing on a point of difference. I feel there is a little clue to the defining of these ten kingdoms in an often neglected part of Rev 13:2 And the beast that I saw was like a leopard This is an obvious reference back to Daniel 7; Alexander's Empire, which is described as the leopard. If the final beast has similar borders to Alexander's empire, just refer to inchrist's map of this empire to see which ten countries will be part of the final empire. I could be wrong but the best ten seem to be: Greece, Turkey, Syria, Lebanon, Iraq, Israel, Egypt, Iran, Afghanistan, and Libya. Or maybe replace Libya with Pakistan. This is not conclusive, but I regard it as a likely possible fulfilment of the sentence "the beast that I saw was like a leopard". Rev 13:1-2 refers to aspects of all four beasts of Dan 7. The Rev 13 beast is like Neb's dream, a composite beast that represents world dominion. In Dan 7, the beasts are in chronological order looking forward, in Rev 13 the order is reversed, as John is looking from the point of view of the future, looking back.

Inchrist, You know I'm a huge fan of yours and Marilyn as well, but........ If you guys believe the Rome Empire, arguably the greatest world empire known, is not included in Daniel, then it seems to me you are more interested in fitting in scripture to support your agenda than you are rightly dividing the word. There is NO WAY Rome is not a part of that statue for many reasons, common sense being one. Its not my purpose to be mean here and I definitely appreciate your many great insights you have shared, but this one...... Ugh! Sigh! In love, Spock

This is not really news. They have been using the same tactics for years now. Instead of fighting like a soldier, they hide behind women and children ... nothing new at all.

Hi Arogosy, I will certainly point out any specific verse I would like you to look at. But I don`t seem to see any scriptures apart from man`s interpretation of God`s symbols. Can you show me where are those scriptures, (not symbols)?

http://av1611.com/kjbp/articles/mcelroy-nkjv.html http://av1611.com/kjbp/ This is the online bible I use, here is what they say.

Hi Argosy Yes I do believe there is something we should consider here. The statue is quite simple. The legs of iron symbolise the Roman Empire, yes, but there came a time when the Roman empire was no longer ruling. This would be where the feet would start. A new empire, mixed with a bit of iron in it still. This would be the British empire, it's roots are from the Roman. The British empire is still ruling today behind the scenes. The ten kings come out of this empire., the British Empire. The feet and toes have the "strength of iron". Just as Rome was powerful in it's day, this kingdom will be just as strong, even stronger, but will break in pieces at the coming. I believe the 10 toes (10 kings) as mentioned in rev, are coming from Europe (North of Israel) and not from the middle east, but the great war coming will be there in the Middle East and scripture tells us everything leading up to it will finally take place in Israel. Thank you God bless

I actually live in a haunted house we have seen proof ghosts exist but these Ghosts are just attention grubbers if you dont pay attention to them for a while they throw things or move small objects. I met a demonic spirit only once and when i prayed for Jesus to save me it was gone. But they cant come in my room because thats where i spend all my time with God so the holy spirit is always filling the room.

Actually we do need them just not ones you see in the movies. If I was given the authority to Cast out demons by commanding it or fasting and praying I would become an exorcist because there are millions of ppl being possessed. but I would have no connection to the catholic church or any church that I require permission to do the Exorcism because many poor victims get turned down because of that. However its a major supernatural battle, its one thing to say we can because Jesus gave us authority but another thing entirely to do it. these demons are horrifying strong Clever and know our weaknesses. one slight bit of doubt and they will not hesitate to kill you or worse jump into you instead. Not just anyone can expell A demon and if one tries without the given order from god and being Extremely strong in faith that is spiritual suicide they will overtake you and if u manage to expell a weak one he will return with more who are stronger. trust me we need Exorcists

Do Any Of These Verses Threaten The Loss Of Anyone's Salvation? ******snip out verses****** short answer.... "NO"

The Bible: I'm assuming that the context here is the Old and New Testaments of the Bible. There's a lot here that we could discuss but if it is too simple the difference may be missed. Conversely, if it's too long, it may not be succinct enough for clarity. So I'll try and cover it therefore by making the major points and hopefully be able to provide you some of the foundational Scriptures. I still would recommend an in depth study in order to truly glean all the meaning of it and get it into your heart. The Lord will teach you this if you ask this. As Jesus taught us, what father would give his child a snake if he asks for a loaf of bread? Even we in a fallen nature still know how to give good gifts to our children. How much more then will your Heavenly Father give good gifts when you ask. So certainly asking for better understanding of His Holy Word is a prayer He will answer, for He gives the Holy Spirit freely. Essentially there were two covenants that God made with us;: 1. The covenant of Moses, which is the Law and the prophets and 2. The New Testament, which is the New Covenant, given by our Lord Jesus. Now with respect to#1, the Old Testament and Old Covenant a.k.a. the Law and the Prophets, you may recall that Jesus spoke of this many times when He instructed the Jewish people and taught His disciples: But the Old Testament, which speaks of the Old Covenant, was broken by Israel. Yet still it was fulfilled by Israel's prophesied Son of David, the Son of Man. The Old Testament by prophesy also pointed them to the New Covenant, which back then was still to be revealed. In like manner the New Testament also points us to the fulfillment of the Old Covenant by the person of Christ Jesus. You may say, "how did Israel break the Old Covenant?" Well the Old Testament itself is littered with examples but let's just look at couple of passages. So now who could hope to restore the promise of the Old Covenant that God had established with the Jewish people? It was still a mystery before Christ's coming but yet the Jewish fulfillment was clearly stated by the prophets. There was to be the promised eternal covenant which the Father would make with the Son of David, "King of the Jews". Now Solomon was the son of David by the flesh but the prophesy was not to him. Solomon ran off the rails with many women who led him away from God. But the "Son of David" was prophesied to come from the seed (singular) from the lineage of David and He was to be "King of the Jews", the very thing written on the Cross of Christ, who stated His Kingdom was not of this world. So the Son of David was a messianic term for the promised Christ who was still yet to come, whom we know to be Jesus Himself. It is therefore Jesus who joins the Old and New Covenant together within His own Body on the cross. He not only fulfilled the Old Covenant but He also provided the open way into the New Covenant, which has God's Spirit dwelling in us. No more would we ever need a temple made with human hands, for Christ is that Temple. Our temple though destroyed by those who crucified Him was rebuilt in three days when Jesus arose again in glory. We ourselves are now God's Temple for He sent the His Holy Spirit to indwell those who would believe in Him through His Word, and the word of His apostles. (Read this chapter in your Bible [John 17; the prayer of Jesus]. The New Covenant begins by God giving to us His only Son, the temple not built with human hands, and the Son of God in this New Covenant He established became the mediator between the Father and us who believe. Now as I said the Old covenant was the Law and the Prophets. Jesus perfectly fulfilled that covenant in Love and obedience. We can read in the Old Testament the prophecies testifying to the coming New Covenant which Christ established. This is all over the Old Testament so far too many verses to quote of the coming promise of the Christ. But the following passage talks of the promise of this New Covenant that was yet to come more than 5 centuries before its fulfillment in Pentecost. When Israel read though their Old Testament and came across that passage you can almost visualize the great hope and joy it brought. Their spirit was yearning for this covenant to crystalize and appear. They waited for the Christ to come with great longing in their hearts. You can almost hear the prayers of ancient Israel in the Christmas song, "O Come O come Emmanuel and ransom captive Israel". Yes, there will come a day O yes O Israel, when the promise of the Lord shall be fulfilled and God will live in our minds and hearts! And John the Baptist prepared the way for His coming and the new Covenant God would make with their yearning souls. And so the Law and the prophets was yet to be fulfilled as God commanded and so Israel waited. So how was the Law and the prophets ever to be fulfilled? It seems that when you read the OT its a never ending cycle of Israel turning to God only to fall away again into sin and even apostasy. But the Law and Prophets was completely fulfilled by the Son of David, Christ Jesus, by their true King and our Savior and Lord. As prophesied our sins were paid for and forgiven in Christ. He will remember them no more! They would be cast as far as the east is from the west. All that the prophets spoke of and that the Father had commanded of Israel was fulfilled in the promised Christ. He truly was and still is Emmanuel, God with us. Jesus was revealed as the pure and Holy Son of God that perfectly fulfilled the Father's Will. And showing us the great love of God He gave His life for His friends by sacrificing Himself for us. So Jesus is the Son of God, the God Man, and at the same time He is the Son of Man, the very long awaited redeemer of men. As Adam was the father of all men who caused the fall and corruption of all men by sinning against God. Jesus, as Paul says, can be likened to the 2nd Adam, for He was sinless, pure and obedient to the end honoring His Father, ending the Old Covenant with the words, "It is finished". Out of love for sinful men He gave His life and took our sins upon Himself restoring us so that we, who believe, are no longer fallen creatures. Just as we are crucified with Christ we as well one day rise just as He did - and the new covenant will be fulfilled and complete! And so it was Jesus, whom the Law and the Prophets pointed to, who brought us the new covenant between God and Man. It isan everlasting covenant and union between the Church and Christ by which even the gates of hell shall not prevail against. This is the difference between Old and New May the Lord Bless you, Pat

Hi Argosy, I read your interpretation of God`s Great Image. Now what scriptures (other than more symbols) do you have to back up this theory? Looking forward to reading them as it seems everyone thinks this is right. For such a popular view it must have undeniable scriptures that say Rome is the Final Ruler of today. It must be so obvious but I seem to be missing it. Now I have just read your thoughts on this matter over in the `5th beast,` #57 so I do not need for you to write those. I would like though for scriptures to show God`s interpretation of His word, His symbols. To me it is the right way to accurately handle God`s word by putting all the scriptures pertaining to the topic together to see what God says & not for us to just have our opinions of it. I have asked different ones concerning this topic but as yet I have not received any scriptures saying it is Rome (not just using symbols). I hope you can bring forth some relevant scriptures. Thank you.

Greetings from one originally from TO. Unfortunately, you just do not quite understand what it means to be "in Christ", etc. And the proof is ... Do all BACs walk according to the Spirit? Sorry, but many walk according to the flesh (thinking they are saved). I know what it means to be in Christ. Even those who do not, yet are saved by grace through their faith in Jesus, and walk with Christ falteringly, do not miss out on the Rapture. Whether believers all have that same level of confidence in Him matters not in the end, for we will all be caught up with Him when He calls His precious Bride. Salvation is in Christ and not in our behaviour---many Christians are weak and young, spiritually, but the Father knows who are His. The Shepherd knows His sheep and calls them by name.

Perhaps we are seeing the beginnings of the great falling away now. The Roman church is preaching that no one can be saved apart from the sacrements of the Roman church and Mary her "mother." Many of the old mainstream protestant churches are also deserting their faith in scripture and becomming social clubs and humanitarian organizations. Most new paradigm churches are also deserting their bibical roots and their Head, which is Christ, and striving to unite with muslims and idolitors. Even many charismatics put a premium on experiences and depart from scripture, making themselves easy targets to be deceived. Yet God is keeping a remnant who truly know Him and are sealed by His Spirit. The falling way is to come FIRST. This may be due to the time of the gentiles is being fulfilled as in Luke 21:24. V25. Then there will be signs in the sun, moon and stars. So when you see these things BEGIN to happen look up, for your redemption draws near. V.36 Watch therefore and pray always that you should be counted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass and to stand before the Son of Man. Matthew was written more for the Jews in Israel, especially in Jeruselem. Luke was written more for the gentile christians around the world. So I continue to pray that all my family be counted worthy to escape the things coming upon the world-- to hear His voice and walk in the Spirit with Jesus as Lord of their lives. And I continue to look for Jesus to come and snatch away His bride. He is my Near Kinsman Redeemer Who has not destined us for the bowls of God's wrath upon this earth, but Who delivers us from the wrath to come. So whether the church is delivered pre trib or mid trib, I believe it will be before the bowls of God's wrath. It may be that some will be counted worthy to escape all these things, and some will be taken out by martyrdom. But I look to the day that we shall all be with the Lord and see Him face to face. And I contine to pray for the persecuted church around the world. Blessings, Willa

EXCELLENT analysis Persuaded. Clap clap. And you said it so eloquently while keeping it simple. You lived up to your name on this one.

The dream, and its interpretation: [Dan 2:31 NKJV] "You, O king, were watching; and behold, a great image! This great image, whose splendor [was] excellent, stood before you; and its form [was] awesome. [Dan 2:32 NKJV] "This image's head [was] of fine gold, its chest and arms of silver, its belly and thighs of bronze, [Dan 2:33 NKJV] "its legs of iron, its feet partly of iron and partly of clay. [Dan 2:34 NKJV] "You watched while a stone was cut out without hands, which struck the image on its feet of iron and clay, and broke them in pieces. [Dan 2:35 NKJV] "Then the iron, the clay, the bronze, the silver, and the gold were crushed together, and became like chaff from the summer threshing floors; the wind carried them away so that no trace of them was found. And the stone that struck the image became a great mountain and filled the whole earth. [Dan 2:36 NKJV] "This [is] the dream. Now we will tell the interpretation of it before the king. [Dan 2:37 NKJV] "You, O king, [are] a king of kings. For the God of heaven has given you a kingdom, power, strength, and glory; [Dan 2:38 NKJV] "and wherever the children of men dwell, or the beasts of the field and the birds of the heaven, He has given [them] into your hand, and has made you ruler over them all--you [are] this head of gold. [Dan 2:39 NKJV] "But after you shall arise another kingdom inferior to yours; then another, a third kingdom of bronze, which shall rule over all the earth. [Dan 2:40 NKJV] "And the fourth kingdom shall be as strong as iron, inasmuch as iron breaks in pieces and shatters everything; and like iron that crushes, [that kingdom] will break in pieces and crush all the others. [Dan 2:41 NKJV] "Whereas you saw the feet and toes, partly of potter's clay and partly of iron, the kingdom shall be divided; yet the strength of the iron shall be in it, just as you saw the iron mixed with ceramic clay. [Dan 2:42 NKJV] "And [as] the toes of the feet [were] partly of iron and partly of clay, [so] the kingdom shall be partly strong and partly fragile. [Dan 2:43 NKJV] "As you saw iron mixed with ceramic clay, they will mingle with the seed of men; but they will not adhere to one another, just as iron does not mix with clay. [Dan 2:44 NKJV] "And in the days of these kings the God of heaven will set up a kingdom which shall never be destroyed; and the kingdom shall not be left to other people; it shall break in pieces and consume all these kingdoms, and it shall stand forever. [Dan 2:45 NKJV] "Inasmuch as you saw that the stone was cut out of the mountain without hands, and that it broke in pieces the iron, the bronze, the clay, the silver, and the gold--the great God has made known to the king what will come to pass after this. The dream is certain, and its interpretation is sure." First things to note are that this was Neb's dream, and it portrays events from his perspective, where earthly rulership is a glorious thing. This is in contrast to Daniel's dream in Dan 7, where the same four kingdoms are portrayed from God's perspective as ravenous beasts. Historically, from Neb's point of view, he was the head of gold in that his rule was absolute. (Dan 2:37) The next kingdom, the Medes and Persians, was less absolute: "the law of the medes and persians cannot be broken", meaning the king was subject to the law. (Dan 6:8) And so on with the greeks. These three kingdoms (empires) shared the idea of preserving the culture and learning of those they conquered, often adding local deities to their own culture. Rome is seen in contrast, utterly destroying its enemies and enforcing its culture wherever it ruled. This is the iron aspect. Clay is idiomatic of people in scripture, whether by Jesus' "I am the potter you are the clay", or Gen 2 when Adam was formed of the dust, or as interpreted for us here in Dan 2:43 where clay is "the seed of men", and other passages throughout scripture- it's not a controversial idiom and is widely understood. Whereas the beast dreams of Dan 7 portray the transitional states of the empires, I don't think we see that in the Dan 2 dream except where it explicitly says so from 2:41 onward: -we don't see one side growing stronger/one side diminishing aspect of the mede-to-persian shift in dominance as depicted by the bear "lifting up on one side". -we don't see greece split into four with the death of Alex the Great, as with the leopard's four heads. Looking at 2:41- [Dan 2:41 NKJV] "Whereas you saw the feet and toes, partly of potter's clay and partly of iron, the kingdom shall be divided; yet the strength of the iron shall be in it, just as you saw the iron mixed with ceramic clay. "The kingdom shall be divided", means it's the same overall kingdom (empire), and it isn't conquered but instead splits. This is the story of the Roman empire, which was never conquered but split into eastern and western parts, but retained an identity or connection to its former self. As it mixed with clay, it became even less absolute, and its power was dispersed through many people. The eastern and western parts further split and divided, and today practically all the nations of europe and the middle east are descendants of Rome. The idiom of the iron legs transitioning to iron/clay feet and toes is one of power diminishing and dispersing over time. "And in the days of these kings", in the days when Rome has been dispersed, divided, and diluted among the people. I happen to think that there will be a ten-nation confederation arising from the remnants of the roman empire, but that is an inference drawn when comparing the implied ten toes with the ten horns of Dan 7, etc. Beyond that, I think it's somewhat conjectural to try to identify the ten nations- the fact that the list changes every few years lends credence to the idea that this is the wrong tree to be barking up. I put this one in the "we'll know it when we see it" category. So there's no "fifth empire", and reading the papacy into these dreams doesn't fit. The papacy may play a part, but that's not inherent or required by these dreams. The ten nations/rulers will band together before one of them becomes ascendant, so it doesn't make sense to look for the one, before the ten are formed.

Argosy, I'm glad to see you have been reading my thoughts on the Rev 13 thread and the Middle East War thread. We are finally practically of one mind on this one. Out of all the theories you have postulated, this may be your finest hour. I like this a lot. It makes a lot of sense. Of course, it could be wrong too, but I especially like how you did not go out of your way to call this a sixth and seventh kingdom like some do (apparently to avoid admitting this is somewhat of a revival of the old Roman Empire). One concern- this new ten nation alliance will not incorporate any of the psalm 83 countries I hope because they won't be around at that time. Do you have any possible list of countries you are looking at? I was looking at the Mediterranean Union earlier but never went further. I like this union of Europe plus Islam.

Old Therefore the Lord himself shall give you a sign; Behold, a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel. Isaiah 7:14 Testament Surely he hath borne our griefs, and carried our sorrows: yet we did esteem him stricken, smitten of God, and afflicted. But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed. Isaiah 53:4-5 New Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us. Matthew 1:23 Testament Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes ye were healed. 1 Peter 2:24 ~ First Testament And I will give them an heart to know me, that I am the LORD: and they shall be my people, and I will be their God: for they shall return unto me with their whole heart. Jeremiah 24:7 Everlasting Covenant Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah: Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD: But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people. Jeremiah 31:31-33 New Testament For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people: Hebrews 8:10 Everlasting Covenant And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob: For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins. Romans 11:26-27 As I See It As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the fathers' sakes. For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance. Romans 11:28-29 ~ Jesus But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach; That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. Romans 10:8-10 Saves For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed. For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him. For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved. Romans 10:11-13

"My anger burns against the shepherds, and I will punish the leaders; for the LORD Almighty will care for his flock, the people of Judah, and make them like a proud horse in battle." - Zech 10:3 Many good and sincere posts have been written here, but I submit that the true problem in America is not with those who try however haltingly to remedy their lives before God, but the lack of true dedicated shepherds. Nearly all of them have become corrupted by money, false gospels or fear of awakening the wrath of society against them for attempts at evangelism. Entire Protestant denominations have blasphemed the Bible and the true gospel, betraying the true faith for the sake of political expediency. "If there is a decay of conscience, the pulpit is responsible for it. If the public press lacks moral discernment, the pulpit is responsible for it. If the church is degenerate and worldly, the pulpit is responsible for it. If the world loses its interest in Christianity, the pulpit is responsible for it. If Satan rules in our halls of legislation, the pulpit is responsible for it. If our politics become so corrupt that their very foundations of our government are ready to fall away, the pulpit is responsible for it." - Charles Finney It is written that judgment begins in the house of the Lord. If what is written in the Bible is true, then those who are responsible for the care and feeding of the flock of Jesus Christ are most wickedly courting the judgments of the Almighty. They fly in the face of God Himself with their debauched gospels, their preaching of prosperity first and their embrace of one of the most hated sexual depravities spoken of in the Bible. "There is absolutely no doubt in my mind that the biggest reason America is in the mess that it's in today is directly due to the apathy and indifference of the American pulpit." - Chuck Baldwin The fires of hell are burning today and ready to receive not misbehavior, but those who commit it. GOD HATES SINNERS. HE HATES THEM WITH A TERRIBLE WRATH. It is not some abstract behavior that will be cast into the lake of fire - it will be SINNERS. Judgment is operating even now, but in the incredible mercy of God forgiveness is also offered in the person and blood of Jesus Christ. The gospel is the good news that despite the hatred of those who sin, God offers redemption and forgiveness.....but it is a message that MUST be transmitted to the world. To their shame our preachers have bleached the gospel, the Biblical warning and Our Lords incredible offer of peace and mercy. The truth is too hard for our churches to bear today. It is a message born of warning and a present and real offering of mercy. Eternal damnation awaits those who have expressed their hatred of God continually and shamelessly in our streets and in our faces. Preachers who have sold their souls to the devil shall reap the reward of their treason in their own flesh. Watch and learn, pilgrim. Judgment begins in the house of God and if Christians don't get on their knees and put away pet sins and flirtations with the devil, THEY shall be the first to feel the wrath of God against them. They shall not suffer hell as the wicked do, but they shall learn a terrible lesson of the PERMANENCE of the wrath of God. Why test him? Why fly in His face? It is time to repent. The end is nearly upon us and no church membership card is fire proof. REPENT while you have time, for there is not much left to us. The mercy of God is still offered. Escape the wrath which even now is being poured out upon us. IF GOD DOES NOT JUDGE AMERICA, HE WILL HAVE TO APOLOGIZE TO SODOM AND GOMORRAH. and that's just me, hollering from the choir loft...

Many Christians are called by God to do such and such. Before proceeding, it is wise to seek out several confirmations from other believers whom you trust to know God. These spiritual believers then go to the Lord and see whether they have peace about it. If you do receive at least 2 other positive confirmations, then you can be quite sure indeed that it was from God.

There are a lot of good answers here. As mentioned above, when weak in the Spirit and faith, sometimes we do need a sign from God in another form than the Holy Spirit speaking to our hearts. There was a time when I was so back slidden that I didn't' know how to listen to God within my spirit anymore, so I asked for a sign that would determine a big spiritual change in my life, and God gave me one. And so it changed my life. There was another time when I was spiritually close to God but needed confirmation to make an important decision in my life, because as "Otherone" mentioned, "sometimes we cannot trust our own thinking" as the flesh constantly battles with the spirit. So I asked God for a sign again and was given one, and so my life took a big turn for the better.