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Had my wedding performed be a preacher at a lake side. All pertinent paperwork was signed. Marriages are a covenant, yes, and the focus between our spouses and God, but God said that we need to follow the governing authorities to unless it goes against Gods word. There's nowhere in the Bible that says not to get a marriage license. Regardless of who performs the wedding or where, those arnt that important, you need to follow societies rules, but you also need to follow Gods rules and mean your vows 100%.

No, only that it is recognized as a marriage. Jesus and the woman at the well, He noted she had husbands, and then noted that she is living with a man who was not her husband. So it seems as if marriage was something that had to be recognized by society as such. Im sure others will disagree with me.

At the risk of giving an opinion, I think a marriage should be recognized by society. A direct prayer to God without being recognized as a legal marriage I think is improper.

An interesting and insightful selection of rants from Todd Friel during a discussion with Dove TV, that not only cover the Crusades but touches on the subject of transgenderism too.

Appointment into office in the church or fellowship isn't an indication that God is pleased with you... When he has to feed his flock, he can go to any length... Of course, this is dangerous for you out there thinking to yourself... if i was not doing well, then why did God choose me into this office...? Of course, this is deadly to you out there thinking... i must be pleasing to God...? And definitely eternally deadly to you out there thinking, i must be the best among the rest for him to choose me... His ways are not our ways, and his thoughts are definitely not our thoughts... God is not a man, and God cannot be mocked. If you do well, he will reward you with eternal rest... if not, you get what comes to you. This is my opinion, i will like to hear your thoughts about this, i am open to learning from opinions. Thank you.

girl scouts went downhill back when I was a kid (and in boyscouts) the boyscouts held out longer, but liberal theology seems to have caught up to them as well.

ya, its going downhill fast.

the word vowels in title made me think of the old joke of borrowing a cup of sugar from neighbour. Not sure how it went but I thing she sent her son to reay the borrowed sugar however he was tongue tied and could not say lady I owe u and said a e i o u dumb i know was funny 40 yrs ago when I knew the whole joke

Well then what is the solution?People are shooting at each other and it is out of hand. if law abiding citizens have guns to protect themselves and others from those who are NOT law abiding citizens, then the number of murders would decrease. eliminate the threat, not the protection.

I have always owned guns, never shot at anyone yet.

to me the whole idea that christians should not be allowed to own firearms is about as absurd as the other thing i hear unbelievers often say... that christians should not vote. really, the secular world wants christians to be third class citizens with no rights whatsoever.

I have to agree with Shiloh and several of the rest of you. Marriage is repeating your vows before God and society, publicly declaring your commitment. There is also the matter of registering the marriage with the state. Otherwise there are legal issues to consider regarding property, children and the like.

I think if a person introduces their significant other to me as their spouse, that is a public profession. I mean, when you meet someone and they say this is my spouse, do you ask them about how that came about?

I agree with Jade's point about marriage being recognized by the community. Two people could make a promise between themselves and God, but to the outside world that would just look like "shacking up" i.e. the appearance of evil. However I also take Steve's point about how making the Government responsible for determining who is legitimately married is troublesome, the the Government can redefine marriage as it wishes (as we can see today). i believe there can be a middle ground on this (I believe Oklahoma have a law that gives preacher/ministers the authority to grant marriage licences). As far as to weather it has to be a preacher or in a church setting I would take a moderate view on this and think that a "civil wedding" preformed by a JP etc is just as legitimate in God's eyes.

The Bible says that in the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God (Jn 1:1). The Bible also says that no man has seen God at any time. It is the only begotten Son, who is in the bosom of the Father, who has "declared" or revealed Him (Jn 1:18). So the answer to your question is that it was the pre-incarnate Word (whom we now know as Jesus) who spoke to Moses and gave him the Ten Commandments. He called Himself "I AM" (in both Testaments) because He is God. Whenever we read in the OT that the Word of God came to men and spoke to them, it was Jesus. Unfortunately, "the Word" is not capitalized in the KJV to indicate who is speaking. Notice Gen 15:1 that the pre-incarnate Christ appeared to Abram in a vision and spoke: After these things the word of the LORD came unto Abram in a vision, saying, Fear not, Abram: I am thy shield, and thy exceeding great reward. That should read: After these things the Word of the LORD came unto Abram in a vision, saying, Fear not, Abram: I am thy shield, and thy exceeding great reward.

of course it's legal to hire people to protest. drive past any new (or coming) walmart store. all those picketers are being paid. it's not legal to hire them to riot. maybe that's why they aren't getting paid.

I agree with Steve, the piece of paper means nothing, especially nowadays. I did the whole ceremony thing, and I enjoyed my wedding day immensely. However, since the woman I married did not honor her vows, it really didn't matter in the end. What matters is that two people enter a covenant with each other and God, and they honor that covenant. No amount of tradition makes it more valid.

I was going to try and let that slide..

The main problem I have with marriage licenses is that when you empower the government to determine what a "legitimate" marriage is, then they can easily decide that their definition trumps God's. There were plenty of people who wanted to get married prior to the 60s in this country who were not "legally" allowed to, because of their races, without the hardship of literally having to move to a different state, as one of the main tools that the governments of some states used to institutionalize racism was to prevent people from different races from entering into a marriage covenant. Also, today, right now you have the government running around thinking that it has the legitimate ability to proclaim that people of the same sex can get married. What you choose to call snobby, self righteous piety I choose to call reasonable and practical caution. I think that believers should certainly have witnessed marriages as public professions of their entrance into a covenant, however, I think that your contention that a marriage license represents some sort of special "commitment" is errant in that if the same license can be used to legitimize a union that God doesn't recognize and that is in direct contradiction to His commands, then it is not really worth the paper it is written on in my mind. The covenant is between the people in a marriage in the eyes of God. The commitment is to each other and (hopefully) if they are believers, both should be walking in a Godward direction with God first. As someone who has a marriage license I can tell you right now, I viewed the piece of paper itself as nothing more than a formality. The part that mattered to me was taking vows with my wife before God.

Not to be picky but shouldn't the title be 'vows' not 'vowels'?

God is a trinity of three witnesses..... and should be sufficient.

God recognizes any covneant agreement between any two people BECAUSE he is God. Therefore when a man and woman agree to be married one to another God governs their agreement. As touching the woman at the well, we must consider that the one she was with that she was not married to could very well have been anothers husband and Jesus was discretely calling her out on it. So there are not enough deTails given to use it as a reference in this matter. The best biblical reference that I know of showing the lack of civic intervention in a marriage is Isaac with Boaz and Ruth being a close second. Solomon had 700 wives over 40 years. Which if they came in regular intervals makes a new wife every 20 days and there is no record of any ceremonies. There is no shortage of people who will use every angle possible to try to force you to accept some doctrine that marriage must be recognized by government or some other garbage to be recognized by God but nothing can be proven true. It is all baseless specualtion based in the imagination by the individual hell bent on proving God only recognizes their warped view of marriage. The bottom line is that marriage is a direct result of rebellion and will not be necessary in the resurrection. That is why the name Mary means 'their rebellion'. Unfortunately, there exists a lot of religious teaching on marriage that puts false information in the minds of believers and they become bound by it due to conscience. If it is not of faith it is sin. A sin against conscience brings condemnation to the one who does it. Be fully persuaded in your mind before doing anything. God bless

No, only that it is recognized as a marriage. Jesus and the woman at the well, He noted she had husbands, and then noted that she is living with a man who was not her husband. So it seems as if marriage was something that had to be recognized by society as such. Im sure others will disagree with me. Is it important that society hear that spoken vow made to your spouse as God as a witness.... or can they just tell everyone about it. It takes two witnesses to be politically married, but how many does it take to marry in Gods eyes. Can my wife and I just go down to the beach or the deep woods and vow to each other the things we do in a wedding ceremony and ask God to be our witness does it count...... God is a trinity. We can then tell everyone we are married.... civil marriages don't seem to be all that binding.

So, this message I preached on storming the gates of hell before we went out witnessing. We ended up staying out until night time and went to an area with many bars and strip clubs and watched many people get healed, delivered, and impacted by the love of Jesus. I found out a few weeks later the place we went was nicknamed the gates of hell.

"Be anxious for nothing, but in everything by prayer and suppliction with thanksgiving let your requests be known to God, and the peace of God, which surpasses all comprehension, will guard your hearts and your minds in Christ Jesus." I confess this is something I overlook, tho every time I read it I think, 'oh yes, I must try this.' So this is supposed to guard our hearts and minds with God's peace. Interesting, since peace is something we often lack.

http://www.glennbeck.com/2015/05/07/glenn-prepare-for-a-time-when-voices-like-mine-are-no-longer-heard/

To keep it simple the spiritual man is controlled by the Holy Spirit (and Scripture) while the carnal man is controlled by his flesh (with Satan as the instigator). "Soulish" pertains to the flesh also, which is the source of sins. Today we have "spirituality" (which was once called "spiritism") and this is under the influence of evil spirits (who may pretend to be good spirits). Almost all pagan religions have spiritualism, or shamanism, which invoke and communicate with spirits through various rituals. So there is a vast difference between Christian spirituality and pagan spirituality. If someone tells us he is "spiritual", the question to ask is "Do you mean you are under the control of the Holy Spirit?"

65 Michael. We can only come to God through Jesus, and not Boda, Krishna, Mohammad or any other name. Jesus is more than just the Son of God,.. he is "the Word of God". You will find this out when you read more. We must come to God through his Word only. You can only find God's Word in the holy scriptures and we start with the New Testament. Follow this Word, Christs teachings and not some other, for this Word in the holy scriptures leads to life, and our journey starts with learning about Christ, that he has the power to forgive sins because God sent him for this purpose, to be be mediator between God and man. Whatever Christ teaches and instructs, this is what we follow, and this is where we start. Follow this word and we will find life, because his Word is truth.

Rabbi Cahn (in the article) has it right. Overriding God's Word will not bring His protection to the court and this nation. Any of them that claim to be Christian had better do some soul searching before they openly reject the Word of God on our behalf. Once they make that decision, repentance will forgive their sin, but it won't undo what they have unleashed on our nation.

Firstly, let me open by saying if Biden is blasting religious condemnation of homosexuality, I hope he is including his Muslim friends in this statement. Somehow though, I doubt it. I just had to get that off my chest. Secondly, I have to say that I'm getting really tired of all this. These people are not fighting against Christians alone, they are fighting against the Almighty himself. If it were not for God's love and patience they would be facing the consequences of their actions already. I have a fear though that people will start to take action into their own hands and that might even include some Christians. If the LGBT lobby keep pushing their agenda and if politicians keep enabling them, I suspect that there might be a backlash soon. People are becoming increasingly frustrated by the agenda of an aggressive minority who are trying to force their perversions and decadent behaviour onto the rest of society. It's not just happening in the U.S.A. we are having to listen to this rubbish in Britain too.

Actually, it can't. For note that nothing in the Bible teaches or requires a pre-tribulation rapture of the church. Instead, the Bible shows that Jesus won't come and gather together (rapture) the church until immediately after the future tribulation of Revelation chapters 6 to 18 and Matthew 24 (Matthew 24:29-31, Mark 13:24-27; 2 Thessalonians 2:1-8). That is why the marriage of the church doesn't happen until Revelation 19:7, in connection with Jesus' 2nd coming and the physical resurrection of the church at that time (Revelation 19:7 to 20:6; 1 Corinthians 15:21-23,51-53; 1 Thessalonians 4:15-16). Matthew 24:30-31 refers to the same 2nd coming of Jesus and gathering together (rapture) of the church as 2 Thessalonians 2:1, which refers to the same 2nd coming of Jesus and catching up together (rapture) of the church as 1 Thessalonians 4:15-17. Jesus won't return and gather together (rapture) the church until sometime after there is a falling away (an apostasy) in the church, and the Antichrist sits in a 3rd Jewish temple in Jerusalem and proclaims himself God (2 Thessalonians 2:1-4, Daniel 11:31,36, Revelation 11:1-2, Revelation 13:4-8), and the abomination of desolation (possibly a standing, android image of the Antichrist) is set up in the holy place (the inner sanctum) of the 3rd Jewish temple (Matthew 24:15-31, Daniel 11:31). For when Jesus returns to gather together (and marry) the church, he will destroy the Antichrist (2 Thessalonians 2:1,8, Revelation 19:7,20). Before Jesus returns, the church will have to go through the future, literal 3.5 years of the Antichrist's worldwide reign (Revelation 13:5-10, Revelation 14:12-13, Revelation 20:4-6, Matthew 24:9-31). At Jesus' 2nd coming (1 Thessalonians 4:15; 2 Thessalonians 2:1, Matthew 24:30), the church will be physically resurrected and caught up together/gathered together (raptured) (1 Thessalonians 4:16-17; 2 Thessalonians 2:1, Matthew 24:31), not to remove the church from the earth (Proverbs 10:30, John 17:15,20), but to take the church only as high as the clouds of the sky to hold a meeting in the air with the returned Jesus (1 Thessalonians 4:17). At that meeting, Jesus will judge everyone in the church (Psalms 50:3-5, cf. Mark 13:27) by their works (2 Corinthians 5:10, Romans 2:6-8, Luke 12:45-48, Matthew 25:19-30). And then Jesus will marry in the clouds the obedient part of the church (Revelation 19:7-8, Matthew 25:1-12), those in the church (of all times) who "overcame" to the end (Revelation 3:5, Revelation 2:26). They will then mount white horses and come back down from the sky (the 1st heaven) with Jesus (Revelation 19:14) as he defeats the Antichrist (the individual-man aspect of Revelation's "beast") and the world's armies (Revelation 19:15-21). Jesus will then make the marriage supper of Revelation 19:9 for the resurrected and married obedient part of the church in the earthly Jerusalem (Isaiah 25:6-9; 1 Corinthians 15:54). Jesus and the obedient part of the church will then reign on the earth for 1,000 years (Revelation 20:4-6, Revelation 5:10, Revelation 2:26-29).

Matthew 24:36,42,44 refers to Jesus' 2nd coming (Matthew 24:37,42,44), which Jesus had just finished saying won't happen until immediately after the tribulation (Matthew 24:29-31). So in Matthew 24:42,44, Jesus can mean that only if believers don't watch (stay awake, spiritually) during the tribulation, the 2nd coming will happen at an hour they don't know/think not (cf. the if principle of Revelation 3:3b). In the context of Matthew 24:36,42,44, Jesus suggests it is possible for believers to know when the 2nd coming will occur and to watch for it (Matthew 24:43-44a; 1 Thessalonians 5:4). Also, Jesus says "of that day and hour knoweth no man" (Matthew 24:36); he doesn't say "of that day and hour no man will know". So it is possible that at a certain point in our future, some believers will come to know the date (as in the year, month, and day) of the 2nd coming before it happens. Also, if we mistakenly think Jesus can come today or tomorrow (as is sometimes claimed by the pre-tribulation and preterist views), then how can we also claim he will come when nobody thinks he will (Matthew 24:44)? Also, compare the following: "of that day and hour knoweth no man" (Matthew 24:36), "the things of God knoweth no man" (1 Corinthians 2:11). If we claim the first verse means no man will ever know the date of the 2nd coming until it happens, then to be consistent we would have to also claim the second verse means no man, not even believers, can know the things of God until the 2nd coming. But who would say that? For the Holy Spirit can currently reveal to believers the things of God (1 Corinthians 2:12-13). He can currently guide them into all truth and show them what will happen in the future (John 16:13), including the date of the 2nd coming. For, again, Jesus suggests it is possible for believers to know when the 2nd coming will occur and to watch for it (Matthew 24:43-44a; 1 Thessalonians 5:4). Also, what Amos 3:7 says would include the 2nd coming: Surely God the Father won't send Jesus back without having first revealed to some believers the secret of the date of the 2nd coming. Jesus could return on the 1,335th day after the abomination of desolation (possibly a standing, android image of the Antichrist) is set up in a 3rd Jewish temple in Jerusalem (Daniel 12:11-12, Revelation 16:15, Daniel 11:31,36, Matthew 24:15). Note that Jesus' coming FOR his bride and WITH his bride will occur at the same 2nd coming. For 1 Thessalonians 3:13 and 1 Thessalonians 4:14-17 show that at Jesus' 2nd coming, the souls of all obedient dead believers of all times will be brought down from the 3rd heaven with Jesus (1 Thessalonians 4:14-15), and their souls will descend to the earth and their physical bodies will resurrect/rise from their graves (1 Thessalonians 4:16). Then they and all believers who will survive the future tribulation of Revelation chapters 6 to 18 and Matthew 24 on the earth (those who will still be "alive and remain") will be raptured up high into the air above the places all around the globe where they will be (1 Thessalonians 4:17a), and then they will be gathered together from the sky (the 1st heaven) all around the globe (Matthew 24:31; 2 Thessalonians 2:1) to the one place in the sky where the returned Jesus will be (1 Thessalonians 4:17b), which will be right above Jerusalem, before he sets his feet on the Mount of Olives (Zechariah 14:4-5, Acts 1:11-12). It is because of this 2nd-coming rapture into the sky, and then the gathering to where in the sky Jesus will be (and then the marriage of the obedient part of the church there to Jesus: Revelation 19:7-8, Matthew 25:1-12), that the obedient part of the church will already be with Jesus when he subsequently descends from the sky (the 1st heaven) to the earth (Revelation 19:14, Revelation 17:14, Zechariah 14:5c,4).

That's right, if you change the "are punished on Jesus" to "were punished on Jesus". Also, Jesus' suffering during his Passion was sufficient to forgive the sins of everyone (1 John 2:2), because Jesus isn't just a human, but also God (John 1:1,14, John 10:30, John 20:28). His soul is infinite, and so the suffering of his soul (Isaiah 53:11) was infinite in amount, even though it wasn't infinite in duration. And so his suffering could satisfy God the Father's justice (Isaiah 53:11, KJV; 1 Peter 3:18), which requires an infinite amount of human suffering for sin (Matthew 25:46). Because humans who aren't God have finite souls, for them to suffer an infinite amount for their sins, they must suffer over an infinite duration of time (Matthew 25:46, Revelation 14:10-11, Mark 9:46). Every human has sinned (Romans 3:23), except Jesus (Hebrews 4:15b; 2 Corinthians 5:21). But because Jesus suffered for sins (1 Peter 3:18, Isaiah 53:11) an infinite amount, when the elect repent from their sins and believe in Jesus' human/divine sacrifice, they can have their past sins forgiven (Romans 3:25-26, Matthew 26:28), while God the Father's justice remains fully satisfied by Jesus' suffering for their sins (Isaiah 53:11, KJV; 1 Peter 3:18).

We are required to constantly make judgments -- about others, about what they teach, about what they promote, about what they falsify. That does not mean that we sit in judgment and draw conclusions about how God will deal with them when they are out of line. That also does not mean that we think of ourselves more highly than others. Rather, we assess all things, and accept only those things (and people) who pass the Scriptural tests. We do that right here, and on any other forum. The example of Paul judging Peter as being inconsistent with Gospel truth is a good example (Gal 2:11). He openly and publicly rebuked Peter for being double-minded. That did not destroy their love for each other.

Yeah, but I get anxious just going to the dentist....