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God, the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ is looking for you, so that you can worship Him. In John 4: 23, The Lord Jesus Christ declared that "...the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him."

It has always been part of the Ethiopian Bible, and several of the early Church Fathers used it and a few even thought it was inspired. It is referred to in the New Testament. It was known of by most during the time of Christ for there are fragments of many copies of it among the dead sea scrolls. So, if you read it you will find some things that are pretty sure translation problems. There are three separate books, from different places. Enoch 1 is from the Ethiopian Bible, Enoch 2 is basically the same story from a Slavic origin, and Enoch 3 is from Jewish Mysticism and that one I would not trust for much of anything..... you'd have to read it to understand. I think you will find that most of the general complaints about Enoch stems from this third book. Personally Enoch 1 seems to be pretty accurate to me. So my take on it is to read the thing for yourself and take what you consider as true and look carefully into the things that might be questionable. Most people who consider Genesis 6 as speaking of the Sons of God being angels usually give credence to Enoch, and those who believe they were the decedents of Seth usually consider Enoch to be a total fabrication.

Just out of curiosity, what does church and a coffee shop raising its prices have in common? Coffee shops raise their prices even on their deals...its called inflation. Happens to everyone. As far as the people at church, sounds like they're not being very loving.

What should I do if I've fallen in love with a jehovas witness but I'm a Christian? Should I pray about it and leave it with God while I may lose her? Idk what to do

OKAY, I see a few people using the references of the book of enoch, and its not part of the books in the bible, so how does this book play a role in our belief of God, should we use it , or is it not to be used? is it a book that should have been part of the bible? I could use some wisdom on this . for I did not learn about the torah until I asked and did research, so what does a person need to know, about the book of enoch, and is it a reliable source to go too ?. thank you in advance,

If this is your first post on Worthy, then I welcome you. Do repost in the Welcome section so that you may be welcomed and can post across the Board.

Thanks for all the advice guys, i read a book called "What The Watchtower Society Doesn't Want You To Know" and their teachings are truly dire. They say they have received 'new light' from god which is a way of saying the 'old light' was wrong AKA god was wrong, we all know god is perfect and therefore cannot be wrong. Also the people who created the NWT were not proper scholars, infact only 1 of the people had any education in greek and there is no proof that any of them had an education in hebrew. They claim that only one of the 144,000 can lead the society and is 'anointed' enough to interpret the bible, yet according to them the 144,000 was filled up by 1935 so by their own rules the current leader of the watchtower Don Adams is not anointed and therefore cannot interpret the bible. TALK ABOUT SHOOTING YOURSELF IN THE FOOT.

It makes perfect sense to read right through the book of Hebrews and see why Christ is our High Priest "after the order of Melchizedek", and why the lesser (Abraham) was blessed by the greater (Christ). If Melchizedek was an ordinary man, the Holy Spirit would not state (Heb 7:2,3): For this Melchisedec, king of Salem, priest of the most high God, who met Abraham returning from the slaughter of the kings, and blessed him; To whom also Abraham gave a tenth part of all; first being by interpretation King of righteousness, and after that also King of Salem, which is, King of peace; Without father, without mother, without descent, having neither beginning of days, nor end of life; but made like unto the Son of God; abideth a priest continually. If you remove all the punctuation marks (which would not be in the Greek text), this passage goes from “For this Melchisedec... abideth a priest continually”. He can only abide as a priest continually if He is indeed the Son of God, who was (in His pre-incarnate state) without father, without mother, without descent, HAVING NEITHER BEGINNING OF DAYS, NOR END OF LIFE. In Scripture, there is only one King of righteousness and King of peace -- the King of kings.

It is known to have errors, read at your own risk! lol Some say it gives you more understanding of what is not explained in the bible. I say if its not all truth I don't need it!

12For all who have sinned without the Law will also perish without the Law, and all who have sinned under the Law will be judged by the Law; 13for it is not the hearers of the Law who are just before God, but the doers of the Law will be justified. From Romans 2, but I suggest you read the whole chapter!

Part of the reason for some of the great advice found above for any Christian in the matter of marriage: 2Co 6:14 Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness? Jehovah's Witnesses with their false doctrine believe Jesus Christ was the archangel Michael before He was born. On the contrary, He made Michael, and Was never Michael. They also believe the lie that the Holy Spirit is only an "active power force" and not God... They also do not believe in the eternity of Hell, or that the world will be made new. Their false "New World Translation" bible does away with all references to Jesus Christ always being the Son of God... They believe that the 144,000 mentioned in Revelation refers to them... The crux of the matter is above as to why the JWs are a cult. I reach out to them with some regularity with the True Gospel of Jesus Christ!

If you are a Christian (a child of God) then you have two options: (a) ask the young lady to study the Bible, believe the Gospel, and be truly saved before you go any further (which means renouncing the JWs) or (b) if she is totally committed to her false religion, move on. Scripture is quite clear about the unequal yoke. Nothing to pray about.

Hey Patriot thanks for adding to the discussion. I agree what it sounds like to me is that ur describing Agape love. Which to me is what ur saying, loving the unlovable. Loving on purpose not for selfish gain. Not limiting love to whom one picks and chooses but to all whom you may encounter. I agree with defining whose neighbor and it also seems to me you may also be implying defining what is love. I think ur comments add to my statement that the world wants to love and be loved but doing it Gods way is counter cultural.

Blessings Tom..... I'm really not sure how the whole "falling in love" with this young lady started in the first place,,,,,the reason I am wondering is because you seem to understand that the Lord does advise us against being unequally yoked,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,as Omegaman has mentioned,we are warned that it only leads to our falling away or being separated from God Almighty,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,not that it is impossible for the unbeliever to be lead to Jesus through the one(Christian) I really don't like to stick my P's & Q's in something like this because I just don't know all the facts,,,,,,,,,,,,,,I have a dear friend of 35 years that is supposedly a JW & yet she believes Jesus is God,her Lord & Savior,reads a KJV & is married to a Christian,,,,,,,,she simply does not believe that Jesus was just a man or the angel Michael,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,they have been married over 30 years,before she came to know WHO Jesus is it was very difficult for the two of them,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, The question is & the most important factor"What is Gods Will for you?" This is something that only God can tell you & only you can ask Him,earnestly & willing to do what He will have you to do,,,,,,,,,,,,Perhaps it is through you that He will draw her unto Himself & to the foot of the cross & maybe NOT,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,It is easy to say'part ways" & I would like to tell you that but instead I will say that perhaps you can tell her that until you know Gods Will you cannot go any further,you must remain friends????? If she loves you then I think she will understand that your First Love is Jesus...............I know that if it were me I could not be with anyone who did not put God First,before me & they must be a Christian before I would even consider courtship,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,Pray the Heart & Mind of Christ,Wisdom,Understanding & Guidance through the Holy Spirit,to God be the Glory in ALL things,,,,,,,, God Bless you,you are in my prayers With love-in Christ,Kwik

Yes, I agree. Respect and benevolence should be mutual.

Invite her to ur church. Show her from bible why her views are wrong. See what happens. We know from OT that taking wives from other religion can cause husband to fall. Specially if that other religion is more rewarding or more pleasing. For example in OT there are some religions that involve having sex during the rituals which attracted many people from God of Israel to that god because of peoples lust after sex. The same way is with spiritual stuff. I dont know what JW is exactly but being justified by works for example could be more rewarding than being justified by grace because if you are justified by works you would have something to boast about. Now that you are warned its up to you if you listen or ignore it. The consequences of ignoring this warning may affect your eternal life. So you need to know exactly what is the difference. And not be deceived. Dont accept any new info from her. Just show her whats wrong in JW and see how she reacts. Ask God to open her eyes for truth. If she refuses then refuse her also. I know it feels bad to be alone but but better be alone your earthly life which is around 80 years for male than eternity in hell with her. In earth there would be no communication at all with other people. It is place for punishment. Therefore even if she is next to you, you wont be getting any joy or relief from that. In fact it would probably make your suffering worse if you sit next to your loved one and not being able to even talk to her.

Blessings flow downwards -- from God to men. When Melchizedek blessed Abraham it showed that he was greater than Abraham, even though Abraham is held in the highest regard as the father of nations, as well as the ancestor of all Hebrews. Melchizedek was in fact a Theophany or Christophany, in that Christ appeared to Abraham and blessed him. And the giving of the tenth of the spoils was in fact an offering of a tithe to God. As you read further in Hebrews, Melchizedek was no ordinary man.

I am actually impressed, that you would be willing to do that, so often people choose to go their own way, in matters of the heart, often wishing they had not later. Do not be discouraged though, if you are that devoted to God as first in your life, then if it is in His will for you to find a life partner, I am optimistic that He will find you the right one. In my opinion, you are demonstrating extraordinary wisdom.

I would do as God leads me to ( not as instructed by a stranger ) , but also pray that truth is revealed to all. From there, it can be accepted or rejected by all who hear it. That's just me though.

ok thanks guys, i'll just have to distance myself from her and pray that God speaks truth into her heart

My advice? Have nothing to do with her romantically or in any sort of partnership. No reason not to be a friend, if you can manage to make that distinction and not be influenced by her spiritually. As it stands, much of an alliance with her, can only serve to drag you down spiritually, but a divide between you and God. If she comes to Christ, the real Christ, not the Jesus of the Watchtower, and once she has been steadfast in that, has a track record of spiritual growth and maturity, then re-examine your options. Now, you have to decide whether you really wanted advice, and are willing to do what you already know you should, or to listen and be ruled by your emotions instead. Praying for wisdom and strength for you, and asking others to join in that prayer. Welcome to Worthy!

Welcome to Worthy.

When it comes to the matters of love, go to the One who is pure Love, not us.

none of us should even try to tell you what to do...... Pray, pray, pray is the only thing that comes to mind..... I think that would be the only safe thing for me to suggest.

We all need to allow God's Spirit to guide us. Books, websites, pastors, etc, are all of a source that is not God. I am not saying they are right or wrong, but without the guidance of His Spirit, we are lost in the desert.

Please show me where I said I rejected Ezra's words and thought they were false doctrine.You are putting words in my mouth.

Mat 21:9 And the crowds that went before him and that followed him were shouting, "Hosanna to the Son of David! Blessed is he who comes in the name of the Lord! Hosanna in the highest!" Mat 21:10 And when he entered Jerusalem, the whole city was stirred up, saying, "Who is this?" Mat 21:11 And the crowds said, "This is the prophet Jesus, from Nazareth of Galilee." The city was quoting as was customary, Psalm 118, on the 10th day of Nissan as the children of Israel choose their Passover Lambs in preparation of Passover. Psa 118:14 The LORD is my strength and my song; he has become my salvation. (YHVH has become my SALVATION) Psa 118:15 Glad songs of salvation are in the tents of the righteous: "The right hand of the LORD does valiantly, (References to the Right Arm of God manifested as shown in multiple times in this thread) Psa 118:16 the right hand of the LORD exalts, the right hand of the LORD does valiantly!" Psa 118:17 I shall not die, but I shall live, and recount the deeds of the LORD. (a hint of resurrection) Psa 118:18 The LORD has disciplined me severely, but he has not given me over to death. Psa 118:19 Open to me the gates of righteousness, that I may enter through them and give thanks to the LORD. Psa 118:20 This is the gate of the LORD; the righteous shall enter through it. Joh 10:9 I am the door. If anyone enters by me, he will be saved and will go in and out and find pasture. Joh 10:10 The thief comes only to steal and kill and destroy. I came that they may have life and have it abundantly. Joh 10:11 I am the good shepherd. The good shepherd lays down his life for the sheep. Psa 118:21 I thank you that you have answered me and have become my salvation. Psa 118:22 The stone that the builders rejected has become the cornerstone. Psa 118:23 This is the LORD's doing; it is marvelous in our eyes. Psa 118:24 This is the day that the LORD has made; let us rejoice and be glad in it. Psa 118:25 Save us (Hosanna in Hebrew), we pray, O LORD! O LORD, we pray, give us success! Psa 118:26 Blessed is he who comes in the name of the LORD! We bless you from the house of the LORD. Psa 118:27 The LORD is God, and he has made his light to shine upon us. Bind the festal sacrifice with cords, up to the horns of the altar! Psa 118:28 You are my God, and I will give thanks to you; you are my God; I will extol you. Psa 118:29 Oh give thanks to the LORD, for he is good; for his steadfast love endures forever! Joh 8:12 Then spake Jesus again unto them, saying, I am the light of the world: he that followeth me shall not walk in darkness, but shall have the light of life.

Gen 32:24 And Jacob was left alone; and there wrestled a man with him until the breaking of the day. Gen 32:25 And when he saw that he prevailed not against him, he touched the hollow of his thigh; and the hollow of Jacob's thigh was strained, as he wrestled with him. Gen 32:26 And he said, Let me go, for the day breaketh. And he said, I will not let thee go, except thou bless me. Gen 32:27 And he said unto him, What is thy name? And he said, Jacob. Gen 32:28 And he said, Thy name shall be called no more Jacob, but Israel: for thou hast striven with God and with men, and hast prevailed. Gen 32:29 And Jacob asked him, and said, Tell me, I pray thee, thy name. And he said, Wherefore is it that thou dost ask after my name? And he blessed him there. Gen 32:30 And Jacob called the name of the place Peniel: for, said he, I have seen God face to face, and my life is preserved. Gen 32:31 And the sun rose upon him as he passed over Penuel, and he limped upon his thigh. Gen 32:32 Therefore the children of Israel eat not the sinew of the hip which is upon the hollow of the thigh, unto this day: because he touched the hollow of Jacob's thigh in the sinew of the hip.

Of the promised Messiah -- Mic 5:2 But thou, Beth-lehem Ephrathah, which art little to be among the thousands of Judah, out of thee shall one come forth unto me that is to be ruler in Israel; whose goings forth are from of old, from everlasting. Psa 90:2 Before the mountains were brought forth, or ever you had formed the earth and the world, from everlasting to everlasting you are God.

Rom 14:8 For if we live, we live to the Lord, and if we die, we die to the Lord. So then, whether we live or whether we die, we are the Lord's. Rom 14:9 For to this end Christ died and lived again, that he might be Lord both of the dead and of the living. Rom 14:10 Why do you pass judgment on your brother? Or you, why do you despise your brother? For we will all stand before the judgment seat of God; Rom 14:11 for it is written, "As I live, says the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall confess to God." Isa 45:22 "Turn to me and be saved, all the ends of the earth! For I am God, and there is no other. Isa 45:23 By myself I have sworn; from my mouth has gone out in righteousness a word that shall not return: 'To me every knee shall bow, every tongue shall swear allegiance.'

Who is the Judge? God is the JUDGE as the Scriptures PROCLAIM! Psa_7:8 The LORD judges the peoples; judge me, O LORD, according to my righteousness and according to the integrity that is in me. Psa_7:11 God is a righteous judge, and a God who feels indignation every day. Psa_50:6 The heavens declare his righteousness, for God himself is judge! Selah. Psa 96:13 before the LORD, for he comes, for he comes to judge the earth. He will judge the world in righteousness, and the peoples in his faithfulness. Psa 96:10 Say among the nations, "The LORD reigns! Yes, the world is established; it shall never be moved; he will judge the peoples with equity." Psa 98:8 Let the rivers clap their hands; let the hills sing for joy together Psa 98:9 before the LORD, for he comes to judge the earth. He will judge the world with righteousness, and the peoples with equity. Ecc 3:17 I said in my heart, God will judge the righteous and the wicked, for there is a time for every matter and for every work. Joe 3:12 Let the nations stir themselves up and come up to the Valley of Jehoshaphat; for there I will sit to judge all the surrounding nations. Joe 3:13 Put in the sickle, for the harvest is ripe. Go in, tread, for the winepress is full. The vats overflow, for their evil is great. Joe 3:14 Multitudes, multitudes, in the valley of decision! For the day of the LORD is near in the valley of decision. Rev 14:14 Then I looked, and behold, a white cloud, and seated on the cloud one like a son of man, with a golden crown on his head, and a sharp sickle in his hand. Rev 14:15 And another angel came out of the temple, calling with a loud voice to him who sat on the cloud, "Put in your sickle, and reap, for the hour to reap has come, for the harvest of the earth is fully ripe." Rev 14:16 So he who sat on the cloud swung his sickle across the earth, and the earth was reaped. The SON HAS RECEIVED ALL JUDGMENT! Joh 5:22 The Father judges no one, but has given all judgment to the Son, Joh 5:23 that all may honor the Son, just as they honor the Father. Whoever does not honor the Son does not honor the Father who sent him. Joh 5:24 Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life. He does not come into judgment, but has passed from death to life. Joh 5:25 "Truly, truly, I say to you, an hour is coming, and is now here, when the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God, and those who hear will live. Joh 5:26 For as the Father has life in himself, so he has granted the Son also to have life in himself. Joh 5:27 And he has given him authority to execute judgment, because he is the Son of Man. Act 17:30 The times of ignorance God overlooked, but now he commands all people everywhere to repent, Act 17:31 because he has fixed a day on which he will judge the world in righteousness by a man whom he has appointed; and of this he has given assurance to all by raising him from the dead." If all judgment is given to the SON, and GOD is the JUDGE of the entire earth -- then in fact the reality is that YHVH has appeared in the flesh as the New Testament proclaims -- as not only our Redeemer, but also as the JUDGE! Mic 4:1 It shall come to pass in the latter days that the mountain of the house of the LORD shall be established as the highest of the mountains, and it shall be lifted up above the hills; and peoples shall flow to it, Mic 4:2 and many nations shall come, and say: "Come, let us go up to the mountain of the LORD, to the house of the God of Jacob, that he may teach us his ways and that we may walk in his paths." For out of Zion shall go forth the law, and the word of the LORD from Jerusalem. Mic 4:3 He shall judge between many peoples, and shall decide for strong nations far away; and they shall beat their swords into plowshares, and their spears into pruning hooks; nation shall not lift up sword against nation, neither shall they learn war anymore;

Gen 18:1 And the LORD appeared to him by the oaks of Mamre, as he sat at the door of his tent in the heat of the day. Gen 18:2 He lifted up his eyes and looked, and behold, three men were standing in front of him. When he saw them, he ran from the tent door to meet them and bowed himself to the earth Gen 18:9 They said to him, "Where is Sarah your wife?" And he said, "She is in the tent." Gen 18:10 The LORD said, "I will surely return to you about this time next year, and Sarah your wife shall have a son." And Sarah was listening at the tent door behind him. Gen 18:11 Now Abraham and Sarah were old, advanced in years. The way of women had ceased to be with Sarah. Gen 18:12 So Sarah laughed to herself, saying, "After I am worn out, and my lord is old, shall I have pleasure?" Gen 18:13 The LORD said to Abraham, "Why did Sarah laugh and say, 'Shall I indeed bear a child, now that I am old?' Gen 18:14 Is anything too hard for the LORD? At the appointed time I will return to you, about this time next year, and Sarah shall have a son." Joh 8:56 Your father Abraham rejoiced that he would see my day. He saw it and was glad." Joh 8:57 So the Jews said to him, "You are not yet fifty years old, and have you seen Abraham?" Joh 8:58 Jesus said to them, "Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I am." Joh 8:59 So they picked up stones to throw at him, but Jesus hid himself and went out of the temple. YHVH appeared, ate with, spoke with, and blessed Abraham with a son -- Issac! And Jesus tells the Jewish people, Abraham rejoiced when He saw me! Why? Because the promise of his son, Issac was fulfilled!

I'm just trying to figure out where you get this teaching from? I thought you were a Jehovah's witness -- however based on this one comment I'm not sure where you get this all from? The Watchtower -- Jehovah's witnesses believe that Jesus is Michael the archangel -- thus in effect believe that Jesus is a "created" being. This is the very essence of why their theology is so unorthodox, and why Jehovah's witnesses are lost in their sins -- because they have been deceived by the master counterfeiter -- for Satan has transformed himself into an "angel of light"! For if Jesus is a "created" being -- then He is no longer God -- and therein lies the error that leads men to the lake of fire! Honestly, it's can be rendered both ways and this is not the debate. Is the child -- El-Gibbor -- the Almighty God? This is a pulpit reference and why the debate even exists for those reading the conversation -- Elohim -- as I've stated previously -- the --im at the end of a word indicates plurality -- it's the grammar of Hebrew. The verb usage indicates the singularity of the word -- elohim. It's just the way Hebrew is! The exact quote from Hebrews -- and it's another debate if Paul is the author of Hebrews -- but that's another side note -- if the author of Hebrews declares this to be the Son -- as it's so clearly quoted: Heb 1:8 But of the Son he says, "Your throne, O God, is forever and ever, the scepter of uprightness is the scepter of your kingdom. As you've stated -- as the Scriptures clearly indicate -- the throne -- YHVH will sit on the throne! And the same YHVH is worshiped on the throne. And the name of the King that sits on the throne is YHVH is our righteousness! And clearly in Revelation the LAMB AND GOD -- Rev 22:1 Then the angel showed me the river of the water of life, bright as crystal, flowing from the throne of God and of the Lamb and the LAMB is being worshiped in HEAVEN as God -- then perhaps this should show you that there's a God who is in fact -- ONE -- yet shows clearly a plurality as the Scriptures so indicate. It's not just one Scripture -- my goodness -- it's the ENTIRE Bible that shows it! I listed probably 25 verses that show the deity of Jesus -- and throughout the Old Covenant shows clearly over and over again the "unique" Son of God -- YHVH the Redeemer of Israel -- and how He is coming again to RECEIVE HONOR and GLORY and He will sit on the throne! Psa 110:1 A Psalm of David. The LORD says to my Lord: "Sit at my right hand, until I make your enemies your footstool." Psa 110:2 The LORD sends forth from Zion your mighty scepter. Rule in the midst of your enemies! Psa 110:3 Your people will offer themselves freely on the day of your power, in holy garments; from the womb of the morning, the dew of your youth will be yours. Psa 110:4 The LORD has sworn and will not change his mind, "You are a priest forever after the order of Melchizedek." Psa 110:5 The Lord is at your right hand; he will shatter kings on the day of his wrath. Psa 110:6 He will execute judgment among the nations, filling them with corpses; he will shatter chiefs over the wide earth. Psa 110:7 He will drink from the brook by the way; therefore he will lift up his head. It's the mystery of God! You have to literally change the meaning of hundreds of verses in order to fit your doctrine. Perhaps instead of looking as to WHY all these VERSES are WRONG and MISTRANSLATED -- perhaps it's the doctrine that is in error! You have to scour high and low -- looking for obscure references -- to try and prove your point. In the midst of hundreds of commentators, dozens of translations, you probably can FIND ONE writer that agrees with you. Instead of believing ONE -- perhaps you should look at the witness of the OVERWHELMING number of Godly people that have devoted their lives to the accurately translating the Bible and their expertise in the matter. Rom 16:25 Now to him who is able to strengthen you according to my gospel and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery that was kept secret for long ages Rom 16:26 but has now been disclosed and through the prophetic writings has been made known to all nations, according to the command of the eternal God, to bring about the obedience of faith— Rom 16:27 to the only wise God be glory forevermore through Jesus Christ! Amen. Eph 3:4 When you read this, you can perceive my insight into the mystery of Christ, Eph 3:5 which was not made known to the sons of men in other generations as it has now been revealed to his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit. Eph 3:8 To me, though I am the very least of all the saints, this grace was given, to preach to the Gentiles the unsearchable riches of Christ, Eph 3:9 and to bring to light for everyone what is the plan of the mystery hidden for ages in God who created all things, Col 1:13 He has delivered us from the domain of darkness and transferred us to the kingdom of his beloved Son, Col 1:14 in whom we have redemption, the forgiveness of sins. Col 1:15 He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation. Col 1:16 For by him all things were created, in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities—all things were created through him and for him. Col 1:17 And he is before all things, and in him all things hold together. Col 1:18 And he is the head of the body, the church. He is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead, that in everything he might be preeminent. Col 1:19 For in him all the fullness of God was pleased to dwell, Col 1:20 and through him to reconcile to himself all things, whether on earth or in heaven, making peace by the blood of his cross. Col 1:26 the mystery hidden for ages and generations but now revealed to his saints. 1Ti 3:16 Great indeed, we confess, is the mystery of godliness: He was manifested in the flesh, vindicated by the Spirit, seen by angels, proclaimed among the nations, believed on in the world, taken up in glory. The mystery of God is repeated used throughout Scripture and it's the revelation of this mystery that has been revealed to us! To say I'm hiding behind some "mystery" is kind of ironic since it's the mystery of God that has been revealed! Isa 45:21 Declare and present your case; let them take counsel together! Who told this long ago? Who declared it of old? Was it not I, the LORD? And there is no other god besides me, a righteous God and a Savior; there is none besides me. Isa 45:22 "Turn to me and be saved, all the ends of the earth! For I am God, and there is no other. Isa 45:23 By myself I have sworn; from my mouth has gone out in righteousness a word that shall not return: 'To me every knee shall bow, every tongue shall swear allegiance.' Every knee will bow -- sounds this verse! Php 2:9 Therefore God has highly exalted him and bestowed on him the name that is above every name, Php 2:10 so that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, in heaven and on earth and under the earth, Php 2:11 and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father. There is NO OTHER God but God and ONLY GOD is worshiped for He alone is Worthy of our worship! He will not share his glory with another -- for He alone is God! And the Lamb is YHVH the Redeemer of Israel -- and this is the MYSTERY of God! Rev 7:17 For the Lamb in the midst of the throne will be their shepherd, and he will guide them to springs of living water, and God will wipe away every tear from their eyes." For the Lamb is on the THRONE with the ANCIENT OF DAYS! Why? Because there's both UNITY -- and the fact they are distinguishably different -- YET ACT AS ONE! Mat 19:28 Jesus said to them, "Truly, I say to you, in the new world, when the Son of Man will sit on his glorious throne, you who have followed me will also sit on twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel. Do you not see the overwhelming number of Scriptures that show over and over again the fact that Jesus is sitting on a throne -- and there is NO OTHER GOD but YHVH that will sit on His throne? Psa_9:7 But the LORD sits enthroned forever; he has established his throne for justice, Psa_47:8 God reigns over the nations; God sits on his holy throne. Psa_103:19 The LORD has established his throne in the heavens, and his kingdom rules over all. Isa 9:6 For to us a child is born, to us a son is given; and the government shall be upon his shoulder, and his name shall be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace. Isa 9:7 Of the increase of his government and of peace there will be no end, on the throne of David and over his kingdom, to establish it and to uphold it with justice and with righteousness from this time forth and forevermore. The zeal of the LORD of hosts will do this. Jer 3:17 At that time Jerusalem shall be called the throne of the LORD, and all nations shall gather to it, to the presence of the LORD in Jerusalem, and they shall no more stubbornly follow their own evil heart. Jer 33:15 In those days and at that time I will cause a righteous Branch to spring up for David, and he shall execute justice and righteousness in the land. Jer 33:16 In those days Judah will be saved, and Jerusalem will dwell securely. And this is the name by which it will be called: 'The LORD is our righteousness.' Jer 33:17 "For thus says the LORD: David shall never lack a man to sit on the throne of the house of Israel, Zec 6:12 And speak to him, saying, So speaks Jehovah of Hosts, saying, Behold the Man whose name is The BRANCH! And He shall spring up out of His place, and He shall build the temple of Jehovah. Zec 6:13 Even He shall build the temple of Jehovah; and He shall bear the glory, and shall sit and rule on His throne. And He shall be a priest on His throne; and the counsel of peace shall be between them both. Mat 25:31 But when the Son of Man comes in His glory, and all the holy angels with Him, then He shall sit on the throne of His glory. Act 2:30 Being therefore a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him that he would set one of his descendants on his throne, Act 2:31 he foresaw and spoke about the resurrection of the Christ, that he was not abandoned to Hades, nor did his flesh see corruption. Act 2:32 This Jesus God raised up, and of that we all are witnesses. Act 2:33 Being therefore exalted at the right hand of God, and having received from the Father the promise of the Holy Spirit, he has poured out this that you yourselves are seeing and hearing. Act 2:34 For David did not ascend into the heavens, but he himself says, "'The Lord said to my Lord, "Sit at my right hand, Act 2:35 until I make your enemies your footstool."' Act 2:36 Let all the house of Israel therefore know for certain that God has made him both Lord and Christ, this Jesus whom you crucified." Rev 7:10 and crying out with a loud voice, "Salvation belongs to our God who sits on the throne, and to the Lamb!" Rev 7:11 And all the angels were standing around the throne and around the elders and the four living creatures, and they fell on their faces before the throne and worshiped God, Rev 7:12 saying, "Amen! Blessing and glory and wisdom and thanksgiving and honor and power and might be to our God forever and ever! Amen." Rev 22:3 No longer will there be anything accursed, but the throne of God and of the Lamb will be in it, and his servants will worship him. [not THEM -- but HIM!] Do you not yet see the overwhelming number of Scriptures that show this truth? I don't have to dig in some crazy number of books to find some obscure phrase -- I just open my Bible and it's JUMPING OFF THE PAGE the reality -- that God indeed is ONE GOD and Him alone receives all Worship -- and YET shows a PLURALITY of His Nature!

Rev 5:11 Then I looked, and I heard around the throne and the living creatures and the elders the voice of many angels, numbering myriads of myriads and thousands of thousands, Rev 5:12 saying with a loud voice, "Worthy is the Lamb who was slain, to receive power and wealth and wisdom and might and honor and glory and blessing!" Rev 5:13 And I heard every creature in heaven and on earth and under the earth and in the sea, and all that is in them, saying, "To him who sits on the throne and to the Lamb be blessing and honor and glory and might forever and ever!" The throne in Heaven is established -- and His throne will be established on the earth -- WHEN He returns.

Shalom inChrist, I'll be preaching tonight, and I generally turn off my computer so that I can refresh myself and get renewed over the weekend. I've compiled a list of New Testament verses, since you said in an earlier -- I've avoided the New Testament in our discussion, but since you said I was avoiding a discussion, I re-read the thread and this is the only thing I could think of. I was staying in the Old Testament, since most people that are reading this thread already know the New Testament passages showing the deity of Jesus. So for reference sake, I'm posting a long list of New Testament verses that show the DEITY of Jesus. John 20:27 Then he said to Thomas, "Put your finger here, and see my hands; and put out your hand, and place it in my side. Do not disbelieve, but believe." John 20:28 Thomas answered him, "My Lord and my God!" John 20:29 Jesus said to him, "Have you believed because you have seen me? Blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed." Mat 28:18 And Jesus came and said to them, "All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. Mat 28:19 Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, Mat 28:20 teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you. And behold, I am with you always, to the end of the age." John 10:32 Jesus answered them, "I have shown you many good works from the Father; for which of them are you going to stone me?" John 10:33 The Jews answered him, "It is not for a good work that we are going to stone you but for blasphemy, because you, being a man, make yourself God." 1Ti 3:16 Great indeed, we confess, is the mystery of godliness: He was manifested in the flesh, vindicated by the Spirit, seen by angels, proclaimed among the nations, believed on in the world, taken up in glory. Matthew 1:23 "Behold, the virgin shall conceive and bear a son, and they shall call his name Immanuel" (which means, God with us). Luk 7:16 Fear seized them all, and they glorified God, saying, "A great prophet has arisen among us!" and "God has visited his people!" Joh 5:18 This was why the Jews were seeking all the more to kill him, because not only was he breaking the Sabbath, but he was even calling God his own Father, making himself equal with God. Joh 10:28 I give them eternal life, and they will never perish, and no one will snatch them out of my hand. Joh 10:29 My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all, and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father's hand. Joh 10:30 I and the Father are one." Mar 14:61 But he remained silent and made no answer. Again the high priest asked him, "Are you the Christ, the Son of the Blessed?" Mar 14:62 And Jesus said, "I am, and you will see the Son of Man seated at the right hand of Power, and coming with the clouds of heaven." 2Co 4:4 In their case the god of this world has blinded the minds of the unbelievers, to keep them from seeing the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God. Col 2:8 See to it that no one takes you captive by philosophy and empty deceit, according to human tradition, according to the elemental spirits of the world, and not according to Christ. Col 2:9 For in him the whole fullness of deity dwells bodily, Col 2:10 and you have been filled in him, who is the head of all rule and authority. Heb 1:2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds; Heb 1:3 Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high; Tit 2:13 Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ; Rev 19:13 And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God. Rev 19:16 And he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS. Joh 8:23 And he said unto them, Ye are from beneath; I am from above: ye are of this world; I am not of this world. Joh 8:24 I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins. Mat 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. Mat 7:22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? Mat 7:23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity. Luk 5:19 And when they could not find by what way they might bring him in because of the multitude, they went upon the housetop, and let him down through the tiling with his couch into the midst before Jesus. Luk 5:20 And when he saw their faith, he said unto him, Man, thy sins are forgiven thee. Luk 5:21 And the scribes and the Pharisees began to reason, saying, Who is this which speaketh blasphemies? Who can forgive sins, but God alone? Luk 5:22 But when Jesus perceived their thoughts, he answering said unto them, What reason ye in your hearts? Luk 5:23 Whether is easier, to say, Thy sins be forgiven thee; or to say, Rise up and walk? Luk 5:24 But that ye may know that the Son of man hath power upon earth to forgive sins, (he said unto the sick of the palsy,) I say unto thee, Arise, and take up thy couch, and go into thine house. Isa 48:11 For mine own sake, even for mine own sake, will I do it: for how should my name be polluted? and I will not give my glory unto another. Isa 48:12 Hearken unto me, O Jacob and Israel, my called; I am he; I am the first, I also am the last. Rev 1:17 And when I saw him, I fell at his feet as dead. And he laid his right hand upon me, saying unto me, Fear not; I am the first and the last: Rev 1:18 I am he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death. Joh 10:37 If I am not doing the works of my Father, then do not believe me; Joh 10:38 but if I do them, even though you do not believe me, believe the works, that you may know and understand that the Father is in me and I am in the Father." Rev 5:5 And one of the elders said to me, "Weep no more; behold, the Lion of the tribe of Judah, the Root of David, has conquered, so that he can open the scroll and its seven seals." Rev 5:6 And between the throne and the four living creatures and among the elders I saw a Lamb standing, as though it had been slain, with seven horns and with seven eyes, which are the seven spirits of God sent out into all the earth. Rev 5:7 And he went and took the scroll from the right hand of him who was seated on the throne. Rev 5:8 And when he had taken the scroll, the four living creatures and the twenty-four elders fell down before the Lamb, each holding a harp, and golden bowls full of incense, which are the prayers of the saints. Rev 5:12 saying with a loud voice, "Worthy is the Lamb who was slain, to receive power and wealth and wisdom and might and honor and glory and blessing!" Rev 5:13 And I heard every creature in heaven and on earth and under the earth and in the sea, and all that is in them, saying, "To him who sits on the throne and to the Lamb be blessing and honor and glory and might forever and ever!" Rev 22:1 Then the angel showed me the river of the water of life, bright as crystal, flowing from the throne of God and of the Lamb [they share a throne!] Rev 22:3 No longer will there be anything accursed, but the throne of God and of the Lamb will be in it, and his servants will worship him. Rev 22:16 "I, Jesus, have sent my angel to testify to you about these things for the churches. I am the root and the descendant of David, the bright morning star." The understanding in Hebrew is simply this -- if you can grasp it. The Son -- is the very ARM of God manifested -- revealed to the entire world -- and one that took the form of a man -- Isa 52:10 The LORD has bared his holy arm before the eyes of all the nations, and all the ends of the earth shall see the salvation of our God. Isa 53:1 Who has believed what he has heard from us? And to whom has the arm of the LORD been revealed? And thus is subservient to the Father and this is why He does nothing of His own! Just as an ARM will NOT hit someone unless your head instructs it to do so! Yet the arm is part of the body! So the Hebraic understanding is echad -- ONENESS -- yet ELOHIM -- a plurality. So we see both a singularity -- as well as a plurality! We see the manifestations as the FATHER -- in the Old Covenant as the Ancient of Days -- the manifestations of the Son -- as YHVH the Redeemer, or the Son of Man (Daniel 7) and the manifestations of the Spirit of God throughout the Scriptures! Dan 7:13 "I saw in the night visions, and behold, with the clouds of heaven there came one like a son of man, and he came to the Ancient of Days and was presented before him. Dan 7:14 And to him was given dominion and glory and a kingdom, that all peoples, nations, and languages should serve him; his dominion is an everlasting dominion, which shall not pass away, and his kingdom one that shall not be destroyed. Have a great weekend! May the Lord bless you and may your eyes be opened to just seeing what the Scriptures PLAINLY teach! It may not be easy to comprehend -- nevertheless the Scriptures do not lie!

As we continue our study, we see that it says clearly that the LORD of hosts REIGNS from Mount Zion. Isaiah 24:23 Then the moon will be confounded and the sun ashamed, for the LORD of hosts reigns on Mount Zion and in Jerusalem, and his glory will be before his elders. Watch this closely! Psalms 2:1 Why do the nations rage and the peoples plot in vain? Psa 2:2 The kings of the earth set themselves, and the rulers take counsel together, against the LORD and against his Anointed, saying, The word anointed in Hebrew is the word Meshiach -- or Messiah in English. Psa 2:3 "Let us burst their bonds apart and cast away their cords from us." Psa 2:4 He who sits in the heavens laughs; the Lord holds them in derision. Psa 2:5 Then he will speak to them in his wrath, and terrify them in his fury, saying, Psa 2:6 "As for me, I have set my King on Zion, my holy hill." So the Lord sets HIS KING on ZION! But the Lord of Hosts reigns from Zion -- Isaiah 24:23. Psa 2:7 I will tell of the decree: The LORD said to me, "You are my Son; today I have begotten you. Psa 2:8 Ask of me, and I will make the nations your heritage, and the ends of the earth your possession. Psa 2:9 You shall break them with a rod of iron and dash them in pieces like a potter's vessel." Psa 2:10 Now therefore, O kings, be wise; be warned, O rulers of the earth. Psa 2:11 Serve the LORD with fear, and rejoice with trembling. Psa 2:12 Kiss the Son, lest he be angry, and you perish in the way, for his wrath is quickly kindled. Blessed are all who take refuge in him. So who is the KING that sits on Zion -- it's the SON of God -- the MESSIAH as declared in Psalm 2:2. The King is none other than Jesus (Yeshua) -- and He is also the LORD of Hosts -- again the plurality of a God -- who is also ECHAD -- ONENESS! Hebrews 1:8 But of the Son he says, "Your throne, O God, is forever and ever, the scepter of uprightness is the scepter of your kingdom.

That's about as bad as a translation as you can make. I'm not sure where you get your Hebrew understanding, but clearly not what the text is saying. If you brought that translation to a Jewish Rabbi, he'd quickly correct you in a heartbeat! The term for ALMIGHTY God is El-Gibbor -- and EL -- is the name of God, and Gibbor can be translated as Mighty or Warrior. As far as the comma is concerned, it could be termed as Wonderful Counselor -- there is no commas in Hebrew and the translators added commas -- and in this case I've seen many translations that remove the comma between the two words and it's a technical issue dealing with a comma. Again, the subtlety to try and remove the divinity of the Savior of the world -- because there is NO SAVIOR except YHVH!

The ARM of God is not the HEAD of God. Can you not see in a simple picture how it can be ONE being represented in multifaceted dimensions? Did I ever claim that Jesus (Yeshua) was the HEAD? Not I said He is the very ARM of God! Different -- yet ECHAD -- and nevertheless it never changes the deity of the arm of God -- nor does it change the deity of the head of God. It's the mystery of God -- in the simple word -- Elohim!

First of all -- the word is singular -- because God is ECHAD -- ONENESS -- however this doesn't negate the fact that He is still ELOHIM -- which shows a plurality. An example of a plurality would be Yerushaylim -- Jerusalem -- we know Jerusalem is a city -- but it shows a multiplicity thus why we read about a New Jerusalem coming! Hashamayim -- heavens -- we see a HEAVEN above -- and yet we read about the third heaven [2Co 12:2 I know a man in Christ who fourteen years ago was caught up to the third heaven—whether in the body or out of the body I do not know, God knows.], showing a multiplicity of heaven. Whenever you see an --im as a suffix in the Hebrew it shows a plurality of some measure. It's the same situation you see OVER AND OVER AND OVER again in Hebrew. It's a revealed secret -- thus a hidden mystery the complexity of Elohim -- just as the complexity of Yerushalyim or Hashamayim -- may the Lord reveal the hidden truths of His Word to you! But Jesus must have preexisted before He was born. Why then would John say of Isaiah -- Joh 12:41 Isaiah said these things because he saw his glory and spoke of him. How could Isaiah SEE HIS GLORY unless He was ALREADY SEATED on the THRONE -- in Isaiah 6, thus showing that he pre-existed before His birth. John 17:5 And now, Father, glorify me in your own presence with the glory that I had with you before the world existed.

Paul explicitly states that He considered himself EQUAL to God. What else does -- "thought it not ROBBERY to be EQUAL with GOD" mean? As I quote Matthew Henry's commentary as he explores the dual nature of Jesus, which you addressed in your post. I'll repost the other posts later -- but the preponderance of Scriptures clearly show over and over again that YHVH the Redeemer -- is in fact Jesus -- and that He is in fact YHVH. Remember that it's not J-ehovah -- there's no J in Hebrew. So be sure to explain that to your elders -- and ask them -- why do you use the name J-ehovah -- when clearly in Hebrew the letters that form YHVH (Yud-Hay-Vav-Hay -- the pronunciation of the Hebrew Letters that form Ya-hov-vah or Yah-weh (there's a debate on which is correct -- but it's definitely NOT JEHOVAH since there is NO LETTER J in Hebrew.) inChrist, think for yourself -- and pray to the Father before you post! Don't just listen blindly to the teachings of men -- a cult that was formed in the late 1800's -- but seek the Lord and I trust the Lord will reveal these truths to you -- for some of the "Scriptures" the Watchtower can manipulate to their destruction -- but there's literally scores of Scriptures that show over and over again that YHVH came as our Redeemer -- for He is truly our salvation! As Isaiah says in Isaiah 43:11, "I, I am the LORD, and besides me there is no savior."

As we look into the Messiah -- King of Israel aspect, we'll see that the King of Israel -- is in fact YHVH -- our righteousness! Jer 23:5 "Behold, the days are coming, declares the LORD, when I will raise up for David a righteous Branch, and he shall reign as king and deal wisely, and shall execute justice and righteousness in the land. Jer 23:6 In his days Judah will be saved, and Israel will dwell securely. And this is the name by which he will be called: 'The LORD is our righteousness.' Jer 33:15 In those days and at that time I will cause a righteous Branch to spring up for David, and he shall execute justice and righteousness in the land. Jer 33:16 In those days Judah will be saved, and Jerusalem will dwell securely. And this is the name by which it will be called: 'The LORD is our righteousness.' Jer 33:17 "For thus says the LORD: David shall never lack a man to sit on the throne of the house of Israel, 2Co 5:18 All this is from God, who through Christ reconciled us to himself and gave us the ministry of reconciliation; 2Co 5:19 that is, in Christ God was reconciling the world to himself, not counting their trespasses against them, and entrusting to us the message of reconciliation. 2Co 5:20 Therefore, we are ambassadors for Christ, God making his appeal through us. We implore you on behalf of Christ, be reconciled to God. 2Co 5:21 For our sake he made him to be sin who knew no sin, so that in him we might become the righteousness of God. So we see a man sitting on the throne of Israel and His Name is YHVH our RIGHEOUSNESS! Eze 1:26 And above the expanse over their heads there was the likeness of a throne, in appearance like sapphire; and seated above the likeness of a throne was a likeness with a human appearance. Eze 1:27 And upward from what had the appearance of his waist I saw as it were gleaming metal, like the appearance of fire enclosed all around. And downward from what had the appearance of his waist I saw as it were the appearance of fire, and there was brightness around him. Eze 1:28 Like the appearance of the bow that is in the cloud on the day of rain, so was the appearance of the brightness all around. Such was the appearance of the likeness of the glory of the LORD. And when I saw it, I fell on my face, and I heard the voice of one speaking. Perhaps these Scriptures will help you understand that YES YHVH -- came in the FLESH -- became a MAN -- and will come again -- and SIT on the THRONE!

In your thought process -- you claim the ME in Isaiah 48:16-17 must be Isaiah comparing the "ME" to Isaiah 6. So is it your contention then the ME in Isaiah 60 is also Isaiah? Isa 61:1 The Spirit of the Lord GOD is upon me, because the LORD has anointed me to bring good news to the poor; he has sent me to bind up the brokenhearted, to proclaim liberty to the captives, and the opening of the prison to those who are bound; Isa 61:2 to proclaim the year of the LORD's favor, and the day of vengeance of our God; to comfort all who mourn; Or perhaps the ME is connected to Jesus (Yeshua)? Luke 4:17 And the scroll of the prophet Isaiah was given to him. He unrolled the scroll and found the place where it was written, Luke 4:18 "The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he has anointed me to proclaim good news to the poor. He has sent me to proclaim liberty to the captives and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty those who are oppressed, Luke 4:19 to proclaim the year of the Lord's favor." Luke 4:20 And he rolled up the scroll and gave it back to the attendant and sat down. And the eyes of all in the synagogue were fixed on him. Luke 4:21 And he began to say to them, "Today this Scripture has been fulfilled in your hearing." Perhaps if you argue the ME is Isaiah -- then you can also argue the ME is Jesus. So perhaps you should re-read the entire chapter of Isaiah 48 -- and you'll see the entire passage is the revelation of who God is. Isa 48:11 For my own sake, for my own sake, I do it, for how should my name be profaned? My glory I will not give to another. Isa 48:12 "Listen to me, O Jacob, and Israel, whom I called! I am he; I am the first, and I am the last. Isa 48:13 My hand laid the foundation of the earth, and my right hand spread out the heavens; when I call to them, they stand forth together. Isa 48:14 "Assemble, all of you, and listen! Who among them has declared these things? The LORD loves him; he shall perform his purpose on Babylon, and his arm shall be against the Chaldeans. Isa 48:15 I, even I, have spoken and called him; I have brought him, and he will prosper in his way. Isa 48:16 Draw near to me, hear this: from the beginning I have not spoken in secret, from the time it came to be I have been there." And now the Lord GOD has sent me, and his Spirit. Isa 48:17 Thus says the LORD, your Redeemer, the Holy One of Israel: "I am the LORD your God, who teaches you to profit, who leads you in the way you should go. Isa 48:18 Oh that you had paid attention to my commandments! Then your peace would have been like a river, and your righteousness like the waves of the sea; Isa 48:19 your offspring would have been like the sand, and your descendants like its grains; their name would never be cut off or destroyed from before me." The entire passage of Isaiah 48 is a revelation of who God is! He is the first and the last, the creator of heaven and the redeemer of Israel!

The Isaiah 6 passage is defined CLEARLY in John. For look at how John DEFINES Isaiah 6. Joh 12:39 Therefore they could not believe. For again Isaiah said, Joh 12:40 "He has blinded their eyes and hardened their heart, lest they see with their eyes, and understand with their heart, and turn, and I would heal them." Joh 12:41 Isaiah said these things because he saw his glory and spoke of him. What verse is John referencing? Isaiah 6:9 And he said, "Go, and say to this people: "'Keep on hearing, but do not understand; keep on seeing, but do not perceive.' Isa 6:10 Make the heart of this people dull, and their ears heavy, and blind their eyes; lest they see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and understand with their hearts, and turn and be healed." He's referring to the passage, that you deny is speaking of the Lord Jesus (Yeshua) sitting on the throne! Do you deny the gospel of John? Or is John in error as well?

Now since you brought up the Isaiah 6 passage, let's see if the us in the passage is the seraphim -- or is it the Lord? Let's the Scriptures speak for themselves. Isa 6:1 In the year that king Uzziah died I saw also the Lord sitting upon a throne, high and lifted up, and his train filled the temple. Isa 6:2 Above it stood the seraphims: each one had six wings; with twain he covered his face, and with twain he covered his feet, and with twain he did fly. Isa 6:3 And one cried unto another, and said, Holy, holy, holy, is the LORD of hosts: the whole earth is full of his glory. Many commentators will say the reason we have HOLY, HOLY, HOLY is because of the triunity of God -- however, let's not debate that issue right now. Isa 6:4 And the posts of the door moved at the voice of him that cried, and the house was filled with smoke. Isa 6:5 Then said I, Woe is me! for I am undone; because I am a man of unclean lips, and I dwell in the midst of a people of unclean lips: for mine eyes have seen the King, the LORD of hosts. Isa 6:6 Then flew one of the seraphims unto me, having a live coal in his hand, which he had taken with the tongs from off the altar: Isa 6:7 And he laid it upon my mouth, and said, Lo, this hath touched thy lips; and thine iniquity is taken away, and thy sin purged. Isa 6:8 Also I heard the voice of the Lord, saying, Whom shall I send, and who will go for us? Then said I, Here am I; send me. Isa 6:9 And he said, Go, and tell this people, Hear ye indeed, but understand not; and see ye indeed, but perceive not. Isa 6:10 Make the heart of this people fat, and make their ears heavy, and shut their eyes; lest they see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and understand with their heart, and convert, and be healed. How can you possibly say the us is the seraphims? When it's clearly the voice of the LORD speaking. Once again onesness of God along with the plurality of God is shown -- who will go for US?

I wasn't saying the verse was found on the JW site. The entire post was found on the JW site. "speaker confusion" etc. The context of the verse easily explains the "erroneous" argument they used. It was the JW site that quoted Matthew Henry -- in ERROR I might add that was simply reused in your presentation in trying to refute Isaiah 48:16-17. Brother, think for yourself -- let the Holy One of Israel reveal His truth to you! If you need to depend on the teachings of men -- then you fail to recognize who OUR GOD is! He so wants to reveal Himself! Remember in these last days -- there are many FALSE Jesus' -- do you really want to be following the wrong Jesus?

If you truly look at the passage of Isaiah 48:16-17. Isa 48:16 Come ye near unto me, hear ye this; I have not spoken in secret from the beginning Is Isaiah speaking here? Was Isaiah speaking since the beginning of creation? It's a reference to Genesis 1. Where the Lord says, "Gen 1:26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth. Gen 1:27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them. It's an amazing idea that we're created in the image of God. But who is the image of God? Col 1:13 Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son: Col 1:14 In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins: Col 1:15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature: Col 1:16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him: Col 1:17 And he is before all things, and by him all things consist. The savior of the world -- YHVH the redeemer of Israel -- Jesus (Yeshua) is the image of the invisible God! Now the savior who was ALSO the creator -- and whom was at the BEGINNING -- John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. John 1:2 The same was in the beginning with God. John 1:14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth. Now this Word who became flesh was at the BEGINNING -- the IMAGE of the invisible God -- whom mankind was CREATED in HIS IMAGE says as we continue in Isaiah 48: ; from the time that it was, there am I: and now the Lord GOD, and his Spirit, hath sent me. Was it Isaiah who has been from the beginning? In the context you see who ME is in the very next verse. Isa 48:17 Thus saith the LORD, thy Redeemer, the Holy One of Israel; I am the LORD thy God which teacheth thee to profit, which leadeth thee by the way that thou shouldest go. The mystery from the creation of time was revealed in this piece of Scripture.

Apparently you are only taking a snippet of Matthew Henry's commentary to support your own views. This is the entire portion of which you missed -- The prophet himself, as a type of the great prophet, asserts his own commission to deliver this message: Now the Lord God (the same that spoke from the beginning and did not speak in secret) has by his Spirit sent me, Isa_48:16. The Spirit of God is here spoken of as a person distinct from the Father and the Son, and having a divine authority to send prophets. Note, Whom God sends the Spirit sends. Those whom God commissions for any service the Spirit in some measure qualifies for it; and those may speak boldly, and must be heard obediently, whom God and his Spirit send. As that which the prophet says to the same purport with this (Isa_61:1) is applied to Christ (Luk_4:21), so may this be; the Lord God sent him, and he had the Spirit without measure. Please don't take snippets of commentaries to support your views. Matthew Henry actually supports this passage as being applied to Jesus -- not to Isaiah in his conclusion!

On of the issues that often comes up -- is Jesus -- YHVH -- which is the 4 letters of the Hebrew alphabet that form the word Jehovah -- Yehovah -- would be the better pronunciation since there's no J in Hebrew. The same 4 letters often are said as Yahweh in English. The reality is that since the Jewish people don't know the proper way to say the name -- and call these 4 letters the unspeakable name of God -- Jewish people simply say the word -- HaShem -- which simply means The Name. When it's read in the synagogues, they use the word -- Adonai. In Jeremiah this is what YHVH declares, Jeremiah 17:10 "I the LORD (YHVH) search the heart and test the mind, to give every man according to his ways, according to the fruit of his deeds." And in revelation as Jesus reveals himself to John he declares, Revelation 2:23 and I will strike her children dead. And all the churches will know that I am he who searches mind and heart, and I will give to each of you according to your works. So you can see that the YHVH and Jesus are one and the same. In this next Scripture -- we see something very interesting -- the LORD -- and His Redeemer -- the LORD! Isaiah 44:6 Thus says the LORD, the King of Israel and his Redeemer, the LORD of hosts: "I am the first and I am the last; besides me there is no god. And YHVH -- the Redeemer says -- I am the FIRST AND THE LAST! And this is what Jesus says as He reveals himself to John in Revelation -- Rev 1:17 When I saw him, I fell at his feet as though dead. But he laid his right hand on me, saying, "Fear not, I am the first and the last, Rev 1:18 and the living one. I died, and behold I am alive forevermore, and I have the keys of Death and Hades. So the Scriptures don't contradict themselves -- but rather we begin to see a plurality in the Godhead.

This subject comes up often within Israel since the Jewish people have always understood the oneness of God -- for example, The Lord our God -- the Lord are God is one is constantly quoted throughout Israel. The word one -- is the word echad -- which literally means oneness. If it was an absolute one -- the word would be yachid in Hebrew. For example, when a man marries a woman they become "echad" -- they become ONE -- but you can see they are not "ONE" person. Thus the oneness of God is shown throughout the Scriptures -- however he shows many faces. The word FACE in Hebrew is the word -- Panim -- which literally means "FACES" it's often misunderstood as God has many "faces". In Hebrew the 'im' at the end of Hebrew words show a multiplicity this is why one of the most common words for God is the word -- elohim! Now that we have a basic understanding of the multiplicity of God -- and in an attempt to have a conversation, I'll simply begin the discussion with a scripture and we'll discuss it out. Isaiah 48:16 Draw near to me, hear this: from the beginning I have not spoken in secret, from the time it came to be I have been there." And now the Lord GOD has sent me, and his Spirit. Isa 48:17 Thus says the LORD, your Redeemer, the Holy One of Israel: "I am the LORD your God, who teaches you to profit, who leads you in the way you should go. Here we have a clear understanding of the triunity of God -- the Lord GOD -- YHVH -- hath sent me (who is me) and His Spirit. Who says this? the LORD your redeemer! Thus we have a conceptual understanding of the "faces" of Elohim!

Very good thoughts