Leaderboard

Not many should become teachers, my brothers, knowing that we will receive a stricter judgment, james 3:1

Luke 6:40 A disciple is not above his teacher, but everyone who is fully trained will be like his teacher.

1 timothy 3 This saying is trustworthy:[a] “If anyone aspires to be an overseer, he desires a noble work.” 2 An overseer, therefore, must be above reproach, the husband of one wife, self-controlled, sensible, respectable, hospitable, an able teacher,[b] 3 not addicted to wine, not a bully but gentle, not quarrelsome, not greedy— 4 one who manages his own household competently, having his children under control with all dignity.5 (If anyone does not know how to manage his own household, how will he take care of God’s church?) 6 He must not be a new convert, or he might become conceited and fall into the condemnation of the Devil.7 Furthermore, he must have a good reputation among outsiders, so that he does not fall into disgrace and the Devil’s trap. 8 Deacons, likewise, should be worthy of respect, not hypocritical, not drinking a lot of wine, not greedy for money, 9 holding the mystery of the faith with a clear conscience. 10 And they must also be tested first; if they prove blameless, then they can serve as deacons. 11 Wives, too, must be worthy of respect, not slanderers, self-controlled, faithful in everything. 12 Deacons must be husbands of one wife, managing their children and their own households competently. 13 For those who have served well as deacons acquire a good standing for themselves, and great boldness in the faith that is in Christ Jesus.

Yes, there are guidelines and identifying talent/fruit standards, characteristics of the legitimate gifts, talent and maturity of spiritual fruit distributed by God to expand, administer, dwell within the kingdom of God, participate in stewardship of the body, and preparation of the saints (Holy Spirit imparted of course). I'll start adding the scriptures later, i'm working. But you can start looking into it and find them. There are also warnings with the cause and effect of placing immature, unqualified, misguided leadership in an office they are not chosen for or/and prepared for. There are also ministries all saints (children of God) are supposed to participate in to develop fruit, talent, office before they are given authority in the body. All saints are given authority in this world and over darkness to be salt and light.

I'll pray for you. Lord flesh and blood can not reveal you but your spirit can. Lord walk with this young man and show Him as you answer His mother and Fathers prayers for Him. Lord I also pray for the speakers at His church, give them words to speak directly to His heart and confirm your words to Him out of the mouths of 2 or three of your witnesses In Your name Lord Jesus I pray.

Thanks for posting this bopeep. Its the only coherent defense of the pre-trib doctrine I have read in years. Some good points there, however they are all wrong A1) 1 Thess 4/5 actually states that the time of the rapture occurs on the day of the Lord, a day of wrath. The very verse used to support a pre-trib rapture supports a post-trib rapture occurring on a day of wrath: will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever. 18 Therefore encourage one another with these words. Now, brothers and sisters, about times and dates we do not need to write to you, 2 for you know very well that the day of the Lord will come like a thief in the night. 3 While people are saying, “Peace and safety,”destruction will come on them suddenly, as labor pains on a pregnant woman, and they will not escape. 4 But you, brothers and sisters, are not in darkness so that this day should surprise you like a thief. Rev 19:4 is describing an event that occurred later on the day of the Lord. We are raptured earlier, we miss the wrath and the final war and the hailstones and great earthquake. We are feasting during this time. Then we join the heavenly procession to destroy the gathered armies. With this view, Rev 19 does not contradict a rapture at the second coming. A2) 1 Thessalonians 5:9 and Revelation 3:10 do not even hint at a rapture before the 7 year tribulation. The "hour of trial" most likely is referring to the day of wrath. There is nothing in both verses that require the wrath/hour of trial taking a few years. A3) Yes the rapture is a day of deliverance for believers. However regarding Matthew 24 this does not describe the removal of unbelievers as per your post, it describes Jesus on the clouds and the angels gathering the elect. (they gather Christians, not unbelievers) A4) There is nothing secret about the description in 1 Corinthians 15. You need some scriptural support for this concept of a "secret rapture". It is unsupported in the bible and your quoted verses do not indicate any secrecy. In addition 1 Corinthians 15 clearly describes this rapture event occurring at a definite coming of Christ, a phrase pre-tribs do not like to use to describe the rapture. The bible has no problem calling the rapture "the coming of Christ". A5) The verses used to prove imminence do not. I have just read all 3 and they do not hint at imminence. Titus 2:13; 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18; 1 Corinthians 15:50-54 Scripture is clear unbelievers will be surprised. Scripture is clear we will not be surprised. So the view of imminence contradicts the bible which has a very clear timeframe and states we will not be surprised. 2 Thess 5: you know very well that the day of the Lord will come like a thief in the night. 3 While people are saying, “Peace and safety,”destruction will come on them suddenly, as labor pains on a pregnant woman, and they will not escape. 4 But you, brothers and sisters, are not in darkness so that this day should surprise you like a thief. So unfortunately for the pre-trib view, there is no scriptural backing.

MorningGlory, you seem so certain. But think about it. For example if the bible refers to one great war from a northern army, why see scriptures about this event and deduce TWO great wars from the northern army? If the bible refers to one second coming, why would people introduce a doctrine of TWO second comings? I am not saying you do, I'm just illustrating a point that if the bible mentions an event in 4 different places then why split it into two events when the descriptions are very close to eachother. Matthew 24 clearly refers to a gathering of Christians into the clouds at the clear second coming. One needs scriptural support to introduce an earlier rapture. The other times the bible describes a rapture/gathering are also all in second coming context. The introduction of an artificial earlier rapture has no rapture verses to support it. It seems strange to believe in something never described in the bible.

Can some one please explain -Church Home Groups- a few friends from 3 different Churches invited me to thier "Home Group" I ask whats it about? and all my replies are come to find out. I want to check them out ut don't want to walk into something I am spiritually unprepared for, is that a true reason to stay away?

Matthew 28:16-20King James Version (KJV) 16 Then the eleven disciples went away into Galilee, into a mountain where Jesus had appointed them. 17 And when they saw him, they worshipped him: but some doubted. 18 And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth. 19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: 20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world. Amen.

Amen. Like churches and like people. Dead OR Alive.

Home groups can be awesome or they can be horrible. It depends on the leaders and the group dynamics. A lot of churches grow so large and some times the people of the congregation come from different neighborhoods and towns, so no strong relationships are built and there becomes a lack in discipleship, prayer support and mentoring. So large churches create home groups (which we see in the new testament and acts) in geographical areas for people to meet for one on one ministry and bible study. Some churches are careful and pick mature hosts that meet the biblical standards and criteria for church leadership and home groups can be wonderful. But some church groups don't and they can just create bad doctrine, gossip meetings or cult start ups. when there is no mature leadership.

The bible is so open to interpretation that anyone can really see anything they want there, but this is fine, because it means its not the clever people who find the truth but the honest people. Those willing to accept the bible wording at face value without taking the second best meaning, or their peers meaning, or the traditional meaning, or the popular meaning. Dan. 12:9 And he said, “Go your way, Daniel, for the words are closed up and sealed till the time of the end. !0 Many shall be purified, made white, and refined, but the wicked shall do wickedly; and none of the wicked shall understand, but the wise shall understand." About sums it up. The implication is that the wise shall understand these things after they have been refined by fire. For some, that will come during the Tribulation; for others, if they so choose, that refinement may precede the Trib, in order that they might help others through it. Moses, in his day, was one such example of the latter case.

We have started this in our Church and it is a way for the Pastor through the people to bond and minister in a personal way .... I have noticed that I am drawn closer to the people in the group as I hear The Spirit of God in them-> that would not have happen in a larger setting! Their struggles become my struggles, their needs become my needs, their lives become precious to me where before it was more ethereal and spiritualized... Love, Steven

SS I am not falsely accusing you of throwing out the O>T E: It is right there in black and white in the post I quoted so you can’t deny it. Here’s what you said: “you have taken the new testament and thrown out the old testament, and then you say , we have the whole bible at our finger tips, “ SS: its because you said we are no longer under law, but only grace, E: You won’t find that anywhere in this thread in my posts, but it is true. SS: then if the law was in the O>T then what good is it for ? E: The answer is in the NT. You can search it out for yourself. If I were to explain it you would simply argue. SS: for it is no longer valid, E: Again, that is not something I said, but your invention. The OT is perfectly valid and the Word of God, but the Old Covenant has been replaced by the New Covenant. That is what God says, not what I say. SS: you push the trinity view as if it is what saves us, and this does not? E: Unless you believe that Jesus is God, you cannot be saved, and unless you believe that the Holy Spirit is God you cannot be sanctified. So these beliefs are essential for salvation. SS: to affirm this is nonsense, E: If it were nonsense to affirm the Trinity, then those many battles over the Trinity would not have been fought. This is a fundamental Bible truth, not “nonsense”. SS: for it is to see if I just agree with you but holds no part of salvation? E: It is Jesus who said “Before Abraham was, I AM ... if you believe not that I AM ye shall die in your sins”. It does not matter if you agree with me, but if you disagree with Jesus, that's a serious problem. SS: are you saying, if I don't claim this then I have violated some law and now my salvation is void, ? please explain? E: I did not say anything about violating a law. What I said is that if you do not believe that Jesus is God, and that the God of the Bible is the triune Godhead, your posts have no validity. Those are fundamental Christian truths.

Yes, the OT is sufficient to come to a saving knowledge of Christ and his power to save. Jhn 5:39 Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me. The OT scriptures taught of faith in Christ who was in the prophets of old that had salvation in him alone. 1Pe 1:11Searching what, or what manner of time the Spirit of Christ which was in them did signify, when it testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ, and the glory that should follow. There have always been people who have walked with God in Christ who had salvation through Christ who is eternal life. The whole OT is a declaration of those who did that was intended to bring many more to the same life giving relationship with God.

while we should definitely celebrate each day with Spiritual Worship..... but though not mandatory, there is nothing wrong with celebrating a sabbath day.... and from My perspective I don't think Sundy church Worship is also mandatory, but it surely helps me when i can go. I have the Lord with me every day all day and night long, he is my Lord and master and whether in worship or rest or traveling or in the past work, we are not separated.

praying for you.

You post as if you didn't read the New Testament OR the previous posts. Several People were saved without any New Testament to read.--- all they had to read was MOSES and the PROPHETS and the PSALMS. ((see the examples in the New Testament AND in the previous posts)).

Davida, I'm not accusing anyone. I'm trying to say in that room crowded with 700 people a person trying to be a peace maker by saying who's right, who's wrong would just add to the confusion. someone trying to take control in out of control situations just elevates the conflict. So they prayed the Lords peace on everyone., those in the right, those in the wrong, those mourning, those who where angry, those who were wounded and those who were afraid. The Lord gave them all peace because betsy and corrie asked Him to give them peace. So It changed how i look at family fights or arguments at work and how I think of this troubled world.

This is the only social site I go on... the rest is my church family that I invest in; as for my immediate family nearly all has passed away.

I don't think they are false teachers. I don't think they are spirit led mature teachers at all, I think they scan posts to find something they can put people down about and answer to show how smart they are and they don't even read every thing said to understand what someone is trying to say. I think that because one of them apologised to me and confessed that is what he did. Now I know the one who apologized does love the Lord and is my brother in Christ and I think the Lord for hearing prayers for Him.

i have hundreds of facebook friends,, but i saw two of them are blocked me,, because of my way is not fit for them.... still many people are good with me in face book,, we are not to worry,, a person is not good person to other people and a person is not bad person to all other people,, this is life,, God never accuses us,, Thank you Jesus,,

Yes. When it comes to interpersonal issues, there are usually two sides to the equation.

Plus I'm praying for them to be true witnesses and bare fruit of the Spirit.

I totally agree sister we can have confidence in our Lord.. Thank you for your encouragement. We have not been given a spirit of fear but one of power, love and a sound mind. Yes, there is way more solid, clear doctrine (teaching) about our (behavior) and the paths of developing fruit of the Spirit in the word then there is on the tribulation. Also we know those in Christ by the fruit of the Spirit not their eschatology belief.

I sincerely do not think there is a better explanation than what Ezra has just said,,,,,,,,,,,truly the Apostle Paul helps us all to understand the struggle between flesh & spirit ,,,,,,,yet time & time again he reminds us that we have Christ abiding in us and we can all avoid sin by relinquishing "self" or "that sinful nature "of our fleshly bodies to our Lord Jesus,the Heart & Mind of Jesus is what we strive for,,,,,,,,,

What are the different parts of the temple? What were there purposes? Where can I find this information in the Bible?

I am a Christian. Jesus is my Lord and savior and I know this to be true. It's just I don't 'feel' his presence.

What IS the rapture exactly? Genesis 5:23–24 (AV) 23 And all the days of Enoch were three hundred sixty and five years: 24 And Enoch walked with God: and he was not; for God took him. Where did he go? He obviously vanished physically from Earth. But where did he go body, soul, and spirit?

Today ISIL reared its ugly head again in Belgium. And President Obama spoke in Cuba beneath the Cuban and American flags. What worries me is that the social engineering that has taken place the last 100 years has brought us to the point that citizens have accepted these kinds of outrages and atrocities with (at most) a passing concern... maybe shaking a powerless fist at the television... then right back to sleep we go.

Point being we presume to know what the rapture is... what is it in your opinion? Or better yet, describe it with scripture verses.

That is as simple as it gets. All through Scripture, Yahweh shows that the world is blind. ((Especially in the last days)). Remember last time the earth was so full of wickedness and sin ?

It's Corrie Ten Boom by the way... "Never be afraid to trust an unknown future to a known God. Worry does not empty tomorrow of its sorrow; it empties today of its strength. Forgiveness is an act of the will, and the will can function regardless of the temperature of the heart."

Thanks All. I'm trying to focus on Philippines 4 this week in an effort to apply myself with His help to all of life's many difficult people, places and things.

I have really appreciated reading all the comments & have been very encouraged. Together we can help others as we address our posting. I know that in the eschatology section where I usually hang out, it can get very heated, thus of late I am trying to balance my interaction by going in other areas & relating on everyday topics. Marilyn.

Always Scripture is True. Yahshua always say few see. The world is blind.

I pray for this too. I also ask God to give us a wise president, someone who will do something to stop ISIS. But I also worry that God has had with our sinful ways. I then pray that God is not going to use ISIS to bring judgement on America. When I was very young and dumb (in the 1960's and early 70's) I was like many guys. So I thought legal abortions were good because it was better than girls going to doctors who damaged them inside for life. But then I met God and slowly realized I was wrong. We threw prayer out of the schools, and the rest is history. This is why I say we need to repent individually and as a nation. Finally I pray may God's will be done, not mine.

the muslims that just set off bombs in brussels. How can we not see?

That is the main point in hermeneutics 'when the plain sense makes sense seek no other sense' ... there are gnostic spirits all around that come through the portal of knowledge being puffed up and influence toward incorrect reasoning. Love, Steven

I already reported it the first week I was here, no one ever responded or did anything so I'm just going to ignore people that take small pieces of a text remove it from context to create contention and start these divisive pack attacks.

... Most people never do. ((Yet, as Yahweh says, seek Yahweh and keep on seeking Him, and you will find Him)).. As humans say, most doctors don't cure many people, only treat them and charge them. Ezekiel 18-21 But if the wicked turn away from all the sins that they have committed, keep all my regulations, and act justly and responsibly, they will surely live and not die.

you are holding to your self ,the same as you are speaking of others, and this comes from deep with in, blessings to you Sister, and I pray that the lord is giving you grace and understanding to know wisdom, that we are all falling short, but we can love one another in the spirit of true love , and compassion of understanding that we are to love and not hate, for hate has no part where there is love, and forgiveness is given from Him that has forgiven, so by the same measure we are given we need to give peace to you , and we are all Gods people, there is no division, for a house divided cannot stand, and this is where the rubber hits the road, shalom...

My point is that we are so far down the path of social engineering (the dismantling of America and reinventing it) that we are at the point of accepting just about anything. Can the antichrist be far off?

Go back before ezra before omega man's rant.. I gave my honest opinion on the posts statement of pre trib being fake. all that stuff is just me trying to explain why I am ok just trusting it will pan out as the Lord wills and responding with the word to there negative opinions of my stance as they started taking my words out of context. Which is exactly how false teachers work. Saying rapture isn't in the bible had nothing to do with trib doctrine I said it because I was saying, If it was so important for me to know and fight about the Lord by His Spirit would reveal it to me in His timing. I'm trying to avoid attacking by name or bring copy out from messages. I would hope the Lord would correct the hearts of his people. If they are reading this they know what messages they sent and they know what spirit they were in when they were grabbing at my words to fight about them and they also know I posted the word about arguing over words more then once.

Welcome! I find giving thanks to God daily....and throughout the day for even small things, helps me to know He is with me and loving me personally

I can tell that you have many years of experience as a Christian. You have such strength behind what you have to say. I really enjoy your posts and I am very sorry to hear that people are continuing these conversations in the form of private messaging. That would be terrible if something like this was happening to someone new to the faith. Just thinking about it really upsets me, but I really just wanted to point out what you said about how there is behavior that is not sound doctrine. I find it to be such a concise way of reflecting on the reality that sound doctrine should affect the way we behave. Take care. And, moving back to the topic of the thread. I personally find that rapture theory is promoted through fear, which was the first error I found with it. They make the fulfillment of prophecy sound like this terrifying culmination of everything written in Revelation happening all at once and many people become afraid of this. Then, no one thinks they would be able to overcome the final steps in the fulfillment of prophecy without necessitating a rapture taking place before this. Rapture theory is a fear based interpretation of prophecy.

Welcome to Worthy, aaron. We all go through times like that. It's not that the Lord isn't there; our radar just isn't working! I get around those occasional times by talking to Him, asking Him to restore my awareness and praying. Never believe He isn't there, He is. Just keep working on getting through whatever is standing in the way; things like work, stress, emotional upsets can take our eyes off Him. I will pray for you.

Hi Aaron11, Welcome to Worthy. Don't be so worried about your doubts, but rather focus on what you do know. Doubt your doubts and believe your beliefs! God manifests himself to us everyday in many different ways. I think that sometimes we are just so caught up in everyday "life" that we fail to recognize His presence. Remember, just like the sun, we don't always see it or feel it, but yet it is Always there. HE is Always with you God Bless.

welcome aaron, have you tried testifying? I know when I feel he is far away as soon as start talking about the Lord He is present.

Do you seriously not know? I thought you had been a believer for a long time. Well, I will tell you; pray to God to hear you, confess that He is the one and only God, repent of all of your sins and ask His forgiveness, ask that He come into your heart and dwell there, resolve to follow Him from now on. It really IS that simple.