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Shalom, MorningGlory. We ARE being duped by those who claim to be "peace-loving Muslims" here in these United States! Their Quran says otherwise. If any one of them would take their Quran literally, they SHALL be at odds with us and RIGHT HERE on our own soil! It's not a matter of "IF"; it's a matter of "WHEN!"

Happy Easter everyone! I hope you all enjoy the day and keep Jesus at the forefront for He Is Risen!

Yes, in this world we will have tribulation. That truth is plainly stated. It is because we are not of this world and the world hates us. Don't expect to escape tribulation, prepare to endure it. But the one who endures to the end, he will be saved. Matthew 24:13

calvanist teach that and no I do not believe their teaching is biblically supported.

"The flood came and took them all away" is referring to the death of the wicked and not Noah and his family floating up in a rapturous boat. Yes, the first resurrection is for all the just, not only for those who were living at the time of the mark of the beast and did not receive it, as a great multitude is also mentioned. The scenes of the saved in heaven, are often followed by a description of a trial afterwards, as if to bring a message of hope and courage first.

Thanks for your comments Montana. If you check the passage in Matthew, I was not taking liberties with the text. It says that "the flood came and took them all away." That is talking about the ungodly, not Noah. We would have to change the text around to come up with a different interpretation than what the passage says. Regarding Rev 20 it describes the people that are in the first resurrection as those who did not worship the beast's image, accept his mark, etc. Clearly from the passage the people discussed in the first resurrection had overcome the beast, his image, mark, etc. Again, we cannot change the text to fit our theology, but our theology to fit the text. thanks, Keith

Happy Resurrection Day ,Morning Glory & Ezra & to ALL,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,Praise & Glory to God,thank you Jesus!!!!!!! With love in Christ ,Kwik

And the same to you. The power of the Gospel is the power of the Risen Savior (1 Cor 15:1-3).

Matthew 24:40-41 Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left. Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left. Although this passage is one of the main proof texts for the rapture doctrine, when we actually look at the verses in context, it proves the opposite. Matthew 24:37-4137 But as the days of Noah were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. 38 For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark, 39 And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. 40 Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left. 41 Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left. The subject of those "taken" is in the context of the flood of Noah. Noah and his family were left behind. It was the ungodly that were "taken" in judgement by the waters of the flood. It is also clear that the tares (children of the wicked one) will be gathered first. Then the wheat (The children of the kingdom) are gathered. It is also clear that Y'shua prayed that The Father not take his followers out of the world. Who's prayer will be answered? Y'shua's prayer to not take believers out of the world or what others hope or pray? It is also clear from Revelation 20 that those who take part in the first resurrection are those who are blessed and holy and have overcome the beast, his image, etc. Revelation 20:4-6 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Y'shua, and for the word of Elohim, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years. 5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection. 6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years. The first resurrection is for those who refused the mark and did not worship the beast.

I am only repeating what Yeshua has explained and revealed to me about the Harvest. He has spoken to me and told me that this is why many of those will fall away from the faith and take the mark of the beast. I am only repeating what the Lord has spoken and shown me. I do not add anything more to my words because it would merely be only my intellect and that is a grain of nothingness compared to our Lord's words. He says they will be unprepared and fall away from the faith. The true remnant will eagerly be waiting on the Harvest and calling out, "Send me Lord! Send me!" I do pray that He sends me. Most of the 'rapture bunnies' are full of fear and so fearful of dying and many of them are not even saved. This is why they hold on to this false doctrine so tightly. Instead of arguing, we must try to be very simple yet straight forward. Jesus was never complex. We need to ask them if they are prepared to die for the Lord and are they prepared to not take the mandatory mark of the beast when it is demanded. We need to jog them awake spiritually and ask them if they are prepared, just in case this rapture ride which they were taught is not true. The seed is planted and God will water it at the appointed time. He will water it. That is not our job. Our job is to spread the seeds and not to argue - I do not argue. I just repeat what He reveals to me in the scripture and leave the seed for the Great I Am to water. Yeshua says that we will all drink from His cup and indeed we will when tribulation begins. Some are drinking from His cup right now and they have been for a very long time. T hey are unsure of why the devil is giving them a beat-down. I truly believe that those who have the most adversity coming against them from the enemy (Satan) are actually being prepared of their mighty mission from God when the Harvest begins. Many people have lived a 'charmed' life and they know nothing of what is to come nor how to handle it when true persecution comes. Persecution is not being 'told off online' or a chipped nail. Persecution is what we see in the Middle East. Many of these people are not prepared for persecution. Yeshua will send out those who have VICTORY in overcoming the enemy by their testimony and the Blood of the Lamb. They will not fear, they will actually be empowered by God all Mighty to do the laboring of the Harvest. These people truly are the Remnant who will step out after the destruction to find and minister to the lost, wounded and scared sheep whom He loves. Sad and unfortunate to say that most people have to lose much or everything before they will humble and submit themselves to God. God works best when people are on their faces in anguish, pain and suffering. When we are weak He makes us strong. When judgment arrives our missions will begin - The Lord's ministry to help gather every last one of His sheep to him. Have a blessed day everyone! And for those who are drinking from the cup of Yeshua already and they are unable to understand why all of the suffering. Have you entertained the thought that He is preparing you to fulfill the mission He will call you for when the Harvest begins? That is awesome news! You may just be part of the Lord's remnant. Remember that there was a 4th man in that fire and it will be the same when the Harvest begins. That is terrific good news! Shalom, JG

Your statement above assumes that pretribbers will have the wherewithal to realize that a pretrib rapture didn't happen. The eschatology of a lot of people I've met only goes as far as "glad I won't be here for all that." They've been taught the pretrib fallacy and don't see any reason to study further about something that they think is irrelevant. How will they come to realize that a pretrib rapture didn't happen when they have no idea what to expect? The body of Christ needs discernment and endurance in these last days.

Tj praying you are getting help. God loves you.

Many people interpret scripture from their 'intellect' though it is only the Holy Spirit indwelling that reveals scripture and no other way. The revelation that I have received from Yeshua is that the Harvest is not a rapture, but a gathering spiritually. The left behind theme is not true. This fib will cause many to become despondent when the rapture does not happen and they are not prepared to walk in fire - it will contribute greatly to people falling away from the faith - the great falling away. They will never consider that they were lied to or taught false teachings. They will believe that Yeshua was just a 'story.' They will take the mark of the beast. Sad really. He truly is alive. Believers are not subject to Great tribulation=God's wrath, but believers surely will be entering tribulation. We will be put to death, placed in jail and persecuted greatly for His name. He was speaking of believers. This IS the Harvest. It is surely not a 'rapture ride out of tribulation.' We are to be baptized in WATER, Holy Spirit and FIRE. The Harvest will be the walk in the FIRE. This will sanctify and purify us. We should never fear the fire. Fear the one who can kill the body and the spirit. I hear many say, "I don't care of what is happening down here because the rapture is coming and I don't have to learn or prepare spiritually for tribulation because I will be gone." Tribulation is going to be very difficult for those who believe in a 'rapture' fib. It is not scriptural. It is a 3 fold Harvest gathering; Barley, Wheat and Grape Harvest - a gathering not a rapture. But be of good cheer! He will burn the bundles first and the true believers WILL be protected. God never took the believers off the earth during judgment - but He did protect them from it. No fear!

There is too much garbage in this post. And it sounds like anti-semitic rhetoric. The Talmud is commentary and differing debates on the OT interpretation and application of the Mosaic law. The Koran is claimed to be addititons to scripture by a false prophet. I have read the supposed rumors about the Talmud and found 95% of them to be intentional misrepresentations by anti-semites. When I have shown the correct interpretation, as typical of anti-semites, they insist on their false interpretation because they hate the Jewish people. Most of the garbage on the internet about the Talmud comes from Elizabeth Dowling, a U.S. citizen who was a big fan of Hitler.

Amen, Kwik, That has been my experience also. I have researched all the worlds religions and philosophies, as well as many of the apocryphal books, and they can all be summed up in one word -- "Vanity". As the Preacher says is Ecclesiates 12:12: King James VersionAnd further, by these, my son, be admonished: of making many books there is no end; and much study is a weariness of the flesh.

Neither Oakwood nor any other poster here is "blindly following" Netanyahu. How can he be "a serious threat to Israel" when he has been trying to protect Israel from serious Islamist threats? And if you believe that Iran's nuclear threat is not real, then you must live in a fantasy world. Iran is not only a threat to Israel, but many other Sunni Muslim countries, as well as the USA. As to these matters not being on a Christian site, Christians should be fully informed of what is happening worldwide -- not obsessed with, but simply informed. Iran is called "Persia" in Scripture, and Persia will be one of Israel's bitter enemies before the Second Coming of Christ. As to Paris, Brussels, and a whole host of atrocities throughout Europe (including mass rapes in Germany), they all could have been easily avoided by stopping the flood of Muslim migrants for the last 4 decades. That was a part of their Jihad, but the foolish European politicians deliberately put their countries at risk. That is called "treason".

Blessings Ezra,,,,,,, I do agree with EVERYTHING you said in this thread,,,,,,,,,,,the information we have in Gods Word is everything we "need to know",,,,,,,if it was important that we know something more then more would have been given us,,,,And believe me,before I matured & am where I am this day I spent many many years researching & studying,,,,,I learned a lot,that is without question but the truth of the matter is that not one single bit of knowledge that I have filed away in my brain outside of the Holy Scriptures has never been useful to me(or anyone else) going about My Fathers Business Some people thirst for knowledge,all knowledge,any knowledge,academics,logic,,,,,,I do understand the carnal mind & that is okay ,,,,,,,,,,,,,just not useful for the spirit,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, everyone must walk their own walk I think & God Bless us all With love-in Christ,Kwik

Blessings Lady Kay... I believe that God loves all His Children equally,not more or less but DIFFERENTLY,as a natural parent with more than one child does,,,,,,it sure seems as though God loved David very much ,,,,,perhaps more than most,some would say BUT I think what we cannot see is that certain people do not hinder that Love it it becomes more evident in their lives David,for example,boy did he do many wrong things,,,,,adultery,lusting,fornicatiuon,multiple wives,,,,even murder!!!!!But David was in such beautiful relationship that he continually communicated with God(whether he made good or bad choices),,,,,,,He asked God to help him with everything,Praised Him constantly, had a truly repentant heart,He was miserable if he was not talking to God,,,,,,,,,,,& so he received direction,Wisdom,Understanding,Blessings etc,,,, etc,,,,,,,,& he took correction with accountability,asking forgiveness,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,He gave His Love as well Many of us yearn for Gods Love,,,,Love me,love me,love me more,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,but how do we say"I love you Father",,,,,,,think of a parent with 3 kids,one is very loving,even clingy & always wants to sit on the parents lap(& so they do),,,,,the other is a bit selfish & does not spend as much time with the parents(& so they don't),,,,,,the 3rd kid loves his parents very much & does things to show them his love & gratitude and the parents know that he is just fine & is not very needy,,,,,,,they all 3 are loved equally but differently because they are 3 unique & very different individuals,some need more than others,,,,, Hope that helps a little,,,,,,,,,,,I think it was Pat(Patriot) that said"Dhon't worry or even think about what is between anyone else & God,,,,,,,,,,,just take care & focus on YOUR relationship with Him,I like that answer best GLORY TO GOD!!! With love-in Christ,Kwik

Long story short, the OT Saints had to believe in the coming Redeemer.

Thanks guys, I'm 15 turning 16 now. I'm in the word and fight daily against lust etc. I have an open relationship with God and confess my sins to him daily. I believe he lives in my and I'm saved. The only thing I'm worried about is when I was baptized I was not really interested in reading the word, was not trying to fight my flesh, and really wasn't being a good testimony (still a struggle but I'm working on it). The day I got baptized I got a call before from a lady from my church, she was my aunday school teacher. She said that I didn't seem to be growing and was asking why should I be getting baptized? She said I'll leave it up to you and God and left it to that. I definitely believed in God and thought I was saved forsure but really wasn't bearing any fruit. I decided based on my prayer when I was 6 that I should be baptized because it was something God wanted me to do and thought it might help me live a less sinful life. So I went ahead and got baptized but didn't really feel any different and it didn't change my life all that much. Now I don't know that God will accept me because I made an open confession of my faith but never really honoured his commands.

Many or most American Jews do not consider Netanyahu a serious threat to Israel. Most veteran officers do not consider him a threat. And Mossad did not call him a liar. Mossad put out a report which said Iran is not at a stage in the Iran nuclear development to be a serious threat. The U.N. put out a report which says Iran is becoming a serious threat in their nuclear development. Netanyahu read both reports and sided with the more imminent threat from the U.N. research. Other groups had an earlier date for Irans nuclear development. So, Thallasa, you are in grave error as you made an accusation about a Christian which is not substantiated and you over stated the timing disagreement between Mossad and Netanyahu, and you made false statements about the views of American Jewish people. As far as retired military officers disagreeing with Netanyahu, there are a group of 200 ex-military and reserve officers who politically disagree but consider that every man and woman in Israel serves in the IDF. Plus as many as 1000 people from the U.S. serve. 200 is a drop in the bucket for retired officers as there are thousands of retired officers from the IDF.

I think when we place boundary upon God in our reason and it skews the actual position of God and then we have other than Who God really 'IS'... God can only be placed in holiness eternally as a radiating sphere both outwardly an inwardly without end; satan has had to perform lie in order to have a place of his own to affirm himself as God and then to generate that lie upon all that he is while using what God had given him to convince others of the substance he generated by deceit... it is not difficult to see from this vantage that only a fool would give any weight to evil as anything of God but in fact it is more a cancer upon itself to the destruction of itself and that is what we see the eternal outcome of hell as a existence, by choice, congruent to God's choice by not wanting any portion of truth and God... Evil was never necessary for there is an eternity past and an eternity future that it exists not! Love, Steven

Many people are confused when they find the old man still present within themselves and the ease of living old worn habits... baptism is a testimonial witness to others that you have believed Jesus and have Invited Him into your being! No one can determine that The Holy Spirit is within you but you- hence the question when you have no one around are you alone? We have to realize that the spiritual birth is a real entity of being and the relational aspect is directly connected to God's Word and growth therein... you cannot grow if you are not immersed daily within the Word to grow! Do you have a hunger and passion to know God? Do you have a war within you of flesh and spirit? Do I really believe so that I cannot deny His presence? These are questions you must seek out within you and if you find He 'IS' not there then cry out to Him to save you and be baptized in obedience to His desires and right to your living. Love, Steven

The Jews are God's chosen people. Israel is his nation... but evil has been trying to destroy Israel through lies. One of the biggest lies is to make Israel appear to be a rogue nation that persecutes minorities (ie Palestinians) but Netanyahu is merely pointing out that Muslim aggression (which many idiots blame on Israel) has nothing to do with Israel because Muslim terrorists are at war against all non-Muslims whether they are Israelis or not, and whether they support Israel or not.

Of course Netanyahu is right but his words in the main are either preaching to the converted or are falling on deaf ears. Those that hate Israel will continue to hate Israel and those that support Israel will continue to support Israel. But nevertheless I suppose his words are valuable to a few 'fence sitters'.

When I go to heaven I expect to see people like Moses and others from the Old Testament up there with me. How did these sinners make it into heaven before the time of Christs sacrifice?

This video really touched my heart. Thought it was worth sharing here.

(Worthy News) - Speaking via satellite from Jerusalem, Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu told the American Public Affairs Committee's closing plenary session that the terrorist attacks Tuesday morning in Belgium highlighted Israel's own struggle against the murderous and extremist imperative of its enemies. At least 34 people were killed and scores were wounded in twin attacks Tuesday morning at Brussels’s airport and metro, according to current State Department estimates. From attacks in Brussels to Paris to Tel Aviv, Netanyahu said, “the terrorists have no resolvable grievances,” including Israel’s control of the Palestinian territories. “It’s not as if we could offer them Brussels, or Istanbul, or California, or even the West Bank,” he said. [ Source ] No related posts. View the full article

Welcome Joe, Your Sunday school teacher did you much harm. She had no business suggesting that only those who are *growing* may be baptized. Indeed, it is the exact opposite in Scripture. Those who repent and believe must be baptized immediately (or almost immediately), even though the day before they were rank sinners. Study the conversion of the apostle Paul (Acts 9). He was baptized three days after he met Christ, but he was an enemy of Christ, and killing and persecuting Christians, a few day before that, and was on his way to commit more murder and mayhem. Baptism is the first step towards Christian growth. So just confess your sins to God, and believe that He has forgiven you, and will give you grace to grow. Once again you can see why it is so critical to know the Scriptures for yourself. Your SS teacher should have known better. If she's still around, you may want to teach your teacher from Scripture.

Ezekiel 18:4 Behold, all souls are mine; as the soul of the father, so also the soul of the son is mine: the soul that sinneth, it shall die. God holds all our souls when we die. His house has many "mansions". Many rooms. All these rooms are there for a purpose otherwise Christ wouldn't of told us about it. God's throne is in heaven. The drawing board is in heaven. This is where God designed everything and holds all the plans.. God is spirit. Our bodies are flesh, so when we die our flesh goes back to dust, but our "souls", not made of flesh, God takes back, and preserves them until the time he will plug the power back in so to speak, whether it be in the resurrection, or judgement. The power is going to be switched back on at some point and we all have to face Christ, whether to be given back life, or sentenced to an eternal death. Our flesh which is made of dust will return to the dust, but our souls, which contain all the things we have done in our life, God keeps reserved, and because our souls are not made out of "flesh", he keeps them all preserved in heaven. I cannot explain this with scripture, or prove it, but can only explain it with my understanding. If anyone can prove that our soul's don't belong to God, therefore should not be "preserved" in heaven, but somewhere on the earth, then I will take a look at it and rethink my position. Look at Moses and Elijah for example. Elijah was taken up without seeing death, and Moses died. I believe that they are the two witnesses that will return. They must be preserved somewhere? I do not think that they are alive looking down, but I know inside that they are preserved in heaven, in one of those rooms. The rooms all have different purposes. They are like "holding bays" for the soul, reserved in heaven, for when the power will be switched back on.

The Harvest is when our mission for God BEGINS not when it ENDS! God bless you all.

Right. They were honored for their faith.

Oh my bad didn't know I didnt mean to post as a seeker but still I thank all of you for the answers, I understand now.

Indeed -- both pre-tribbers and post-tribbers, and mid-tribbers and preterists. But the unbelievers will be the most surprised of all. Nevertheless, "Surely the LORD God does nothing unless He reveals His secret to His servants the prophets." Amos 3:7

Hi Esther 4:14 Yes, correct, because the purpose of Christ coming, is to call all to him whether Jew or Gentile to be converted to Christ according to the New Covenant, so that we can take part in the First Resurrection. This message goes out to Jew and Gentile, to all. All get the same chance, and Christ was preached to the Jews first, personally by Christ himself. Christ wants all to believe in him and gives every one that same opportunity to know him. Regarding the remnants being brought back during the millennium, is mostly spoken off in the OT, and confirmed here and there, and not clearly in the NT for all to understand. It's not a get out of jail free card, nor an excuse to be complacent thinking, oh well we of Israel are chosen for that time during the millennium, so we can do what we like because we are covered. No. And that is not my message either to relax, because it is only by "election" who the remnants will be, and considering Israel has multiplied like the sand of the sea, the remnants chosen of Israel from all generations are only such a small number, which is why they are called remnants. This will be a harsh election also, for many will miss out. It doesn't change the fact however, that God is showing us his plan and what he will perform during the millennium. He is just giving us an insight of what will be and how he will straighten things out with the people he first called, to bring his name glory this time through them, at his timing. And if God is showing us his whole plan, and openning up the scriptures to us knowing what will come, then he has shared with us things not understood by the world, that his Word is true and everything spoken will be fulfilled, so we can have this testimony of the truth that he is faithful to his Word and know beforehand his purpose, because he revealed it to us.

Yes, and we have some of those right here at Worthy.

I agree with you. I think they are only getting ready to shift power to Israel as the hero soon the same way power was shifted to the US after World War 2. It was the strategy of communism and Marx was a leader of communism and a Jew to create dissension among people. Communism is taboo though, so there had to be a different strategy to accomplish the same thing. Why does anyone think the super rich people who serve as leaders of nations approved transferring Islamist refugees to western nations. Islam is not a threat to them. The Koran is just a modified Talmud anyway. The two books have the same rumors floating around, but they are true when we talk about Islam. We are told they are not true when we talk about Judaism. They are true about both. The whole thing works together for both of them. Islam can have a place under a government run by Israel because they don't accept Christ as their Messiah. Christians cannot have a place under the same government because we say Christ is the Messiah. The whole worlds just a stage. With that said, I would like to reiterate that I do not prejudge anyone because this is the opinion I hold. Everyone is a new person who deserves an opportunity to come to salvation. It does not make a difference to me. But, politics of the world will be what they will be. " Jesus said, "My kingdom is not of this world. If it were, my servants would fight to prevent my arrest by the Jewish leaders. But now my kingdom is from another place." (John 18:36).

Actually I felt a little silly that Ezra had to explain it to me! But it IS funny.

Blessings Noah,,,, I just read your intro on the Welcome Forum,I thought you are a Christian? This is the "Seeker Forum",,,,it is really for "Seekers" & unbelievers": because they do not have access to all the Forums,perhaps you are posting here because you could not post anywhere else? That's because you need a minimum requirement of posts 1st,you can go back to the welcome forum & reply to your welcomes & acquire posts that way if you like,,,,,,, They had the same Faith as we have in the Knowledge of WHO Jesus is & we are then reconciled(Saved by Grace) ,,,,,,,the only difference is that they had Faith in the Promise of the SEED to come The Blood of the Perfect Lamb of God covers the sins of the world,,,,,,past,present & future believers,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, With Love-in Christ,Kwik

All the saints (not "sinners") from Abel onwards were justified by grace through faith, but did not enter Heaven until the resurrection of Christ. They remained confined in "Abraham's Bosom" (within Sheol/Hades, which is "in the heart of the earth" or in the "lower parts of the earth"). But at the time of Christ's resurrection, they were all taken up to Heaven, and are referred to as "the spirits of just men made perfect" (Heb 12:23).

Welcome Strat Hebrews 11New International Version (NIV) Faith in Action 11 Now faith is confidence in what we hope for and assurance about what we do not see. 2 This is what the ancients were commended for. 3 By faith we understand that the universe was formed at God’s command, so that what is seen was not made out of what was visible. 4 By faith Abel brought God a better offering than Cain did. By faith he was commended as righteous, when God spoke well of his offerings. And by faith Abel still speaks, even though he is dead. 5 By faith Enoch was taken from this life, so that he did not experience death: “He could not be found, because God had taken him away.”[a] For before he was taken, he was commended as one who pleased God. 6 And without faith it is impossible to please God, because anyone who comes to him must believe that he exists and that he rewards those who earnestly seek him. 7 By faith Noah, when warned about things not yet seen, in holy fear built an ark to save his family. By his faith he condemned the world and became heir of the righteousness that is in keeping with faith. 8 By faith Abraham, when called to go to a place he would later receive as his inheritance, obeyed and went, even though he did not know where he was going. 9 By faith he made his home in the promised landlike a stranger in a foreign country; he lived in tents, as did Isaac and Jacob, who were heirs with him of the same promise. 10 For he was looking forward to the city with foundations, whose architect and builder is God. 11 And by faith even Sarah, who was past childbearing age, was enabled to bear children because she[b] considered him faithful who had made the promise. 12 And so from this one man, and he as good as dead, came descendants as numerous as the stars in the sky and as countless as the sand on the seashore. 13 All these people were still living by faith when they died. They did not receive the things promised; they only saw them and welcomed them from a distance, admitting that they were foreigners and strangers on earth. 14 People who say such things show that they are looking for a country of their own. 15 If they had been thinking of the country they had left, they would have had opportunity to return. 16 Instead, they were longing for a better country—a heavenly one. Therefore God is not ashamed to be called their God, for he has prepared a city for them. 17 By faith Abraham, when God tested him, offered Isaac as a sacrifice.He who had embraced the promises was about to sacrifice his one and only son, 18 even though God had said to him, “It is through Isaac that your offspring will be reckoned.”[c] 19 Abraham reasoned that God could even raise the dead, and so in a manner of speaking he did receive Isaac back from death. 20 By faith Isaac blessed Jacob and Esau in regard to their future. 21 By faith Jacob, when he was dying, blessed each of Joseph’s sons, and worshiped as he leaned on the top of his staff. 22 By faith Joseph, when his end was near, spoke about the exodus of the Israelites from Egypt and gave instructions concerning the burial of his bones. 23 By faith Moses’ parents hid him for three months after he was born,because they saw he was no ordinary child, and they were not afraid of the king’s edict. 24 By faith Moses, when he had grown up, refused to be known as the son of Pharaoh’s daughter. 25 He chose to be mistreated along with the people of God rather than to enjoy the fleeting pleasures of sin. 26 He regarded disgrace for the sake of Christ as of greater value than the treasures of Egypt, because he was looking ahead to his reward. 27 By faith he left Egypt, not fearing the king’s anger; he persevered because he saw him who is invisible. 28 By faith he kept the Passover and the application of blood, so that the destroyer of the firstborn would not touch the firstborn of Israel. 29 By faith the people passed through the Red Sea as on dry land; but when the Egyptians tried to do so, they were drowned. 30 By faith the walls of Jericho fell, after the army had marched around them for seven days. 31 By faith the prostitute Rahab, because she welcomed the spies, was not killed with those who were disobedient.[d] 32 And what more shall I say? I do not have time to tell about Gideon,Barak, Samson and Jephthah, about David and Samuel and the prophets, 33 who through faith conquered kingdoms, administered justice, and gained what was promised; who shut the mouths of lions,34 quenched the fury of the flames, and escaped the edge of the sword;whose weakness was turned to strength; and who became powerful in battle and routed foreign armies. 35 Women received back their dead, raised to life again. There were others who were tortured, refusing to be released so that they might gain an even better resurrection. 36 Some faced jeers and flogging, and even chains and imprisonment. 37 They were put to death by stoning;[e] they were sawed in two; they were killed by the sword. They went about in sheepskins and goatskins,destitute, persecuted and mistreated— 38 the world was not worthy of them. They wandered in deserts and mountains, living in caves and in holes in the ground. 39 These were all commended for their faith, yet none of them received what had been promised, 40 since God had planned something better for us so that only together with us would they be made perfect.

Hi, Joe, and welcome to Worthy. I'm thinking that, at age 6, if you prayed for repentence well......that's remarkable. Then at 11 you were baptized? How old are you now? You sound like you are a serious believer. You can pray for the Lord to forgive you as often as the need arises. Personally, I have prayed hundreds of times for that. He will forgive you as many times as it takes, just call on Him.

I don't blindly follow anyone and I certainly don't follow Netanyahu. Claiming that somebody is right does not indicate that I follow them, nor do I believe that Netanyahu is right all the time. How on Earth you could ever put two and two together to make five here is beyond my comprehension. And if you think that what I said about Netanyahu being correct does not belong on a Christian website then I seriously cannot understand you, unless of course you believe that Netanyahu is wrong and that Muslims are only aggressive because of Israel, despite the fact that they have been aggressive for 1400 years, even before modern Israel existed. If you do believe that then it is you that is gravely mistaken.

God's love is not like the love of people, who tend to love those who love them, or love people who please them. Human love is conditional based on performance. God loves with an unwavering love. God loves not based on performance. Gods love in scripture is compared to the love of a parent. A parent might not like or approve of the actions of a child, but the parent still loves their children. When a baby is born, the mother feels an instant love for the newborn baby before the baby does anything good or bad. A father holds their newborn baby and loves that baby enough to protect and give their lives for that baby. Pure love, like the love of God, does not waver, or have degrees of love. John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. Romans 5:5And hope maketh not ashamed; because the love of God is shed abroad in our hearts by the Holy Ghost which is given unto us. Romans 5:8 And hope maketh not ashamed; because the love of God is shed abroad in our hearts by the Holy Ghost which is given unto us. Romans 8:38 For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come, 39 Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord. Eph 2:4 But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us, 5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved;) 6 And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus: 7 That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus. 8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: 9 Not of works, lest any man should boast. Eph 3:19 And to know the love of Christ, which passeth knowledge, that ye might be filled with all the fulness of God. 2 Thess 2:16 Now our Lord Jesus Christ himself, and God, even our Father, which hath loved us, and hath given us everlasting consolation and good hope through grace, I know that in some churches, it is taught that Jesus love us, but the Father is waiting for just one sin to come down in judgement. I have met some Christians who know that Jesus loves them but are in fear of the judgement of the Father. The Father is viewed as harsh, and judgemental. But scripture says the God so loved us that He sent His son. Lamentations 3:22 The steadfast love of the Lord never ceases; his mercies never come to an end; 23 they are new every morning; great is your faithfulness.

Only because it is personal, not topical, even if unintentional. I am sorry to hear though, that you do not back away, sounds like a person who is never wrong, which, I find difficult to believe. I doubt anyone is THAT offended, my only point on this is that it is not correct to be assuming that people who disagree with you, cannot see the truth of scripture. You pre-tribbers get insults? Pffft. No more that other positions. However, compared to 10 years ago, you do get more heat these days. Post-tribbers finally got enough courage to come out of the closet, I think they no longer feel that everyone thinks they a automatically heretics, unlike years back when even some admins called posties heretics. Pre-tribbers do not get any special victim cards to play. I agree, more civility is needed, on several topics, and eschatology is frequently one of them. I lot of the problem is, that people come in, and launch into the topic, to show us how smart they are, or to just comment on a topic they are passionate about, not realizing that everything they are going to say, has already been said here ten times over. It spurs activity, and that get a thread noticed and the cycle repeats. We have been had different positions in the church for centuries, but it was never a huge topic for most of church history. Of course, there was a long period where eschatology was mostly ignored theological discussion. Then we got the movement started by Darby and the Plymouth Brethren, etc. That piques come interest, but not a lot of hubbub. Later, Darby's eschatology was incorporated into the Scofield Reference Bible, which was a standard in seminaries. That led to the pulpits of America, being filled with pre-tribbers, but it still was not a huge debate. Then came 1948, and the rebirth of the nation if Israel. THAT got peoples attention, and suddenly, people were becoming very interested in eschatology. The rise of certain movements, like the Calvary Chapel denomination and it's later popular radio ministries really got things moving. Pre-tribism was then certainly in it's heyday. Their teaching and similar teachings of others, continued to increase interest in the topic, and that was so much the case, that when Hal Lindsey wrote "The Late, Great, Planet Earth", it was even a best seller among secular readers, who found the marrying of current events to Bible prophecy fascinating. Of course all of this interest, also lead people to study and search the scriptures on these things, and that has led people to discover, that the pre-trib rapture doctrine, is not as scripturally supported, as it had been sold. Eventually, other positions also gained popularity and respectability, and that is what you are seeing in some of these debated threads. At least, that is my short version of the history of eschatological thought in America. You may or may not know this, but in a lot of countries, that were not developing their theology under the influence of the west, there reaction is often "pre-trib what, huh?" Not that they are necessarily posties, but they never discovered a pre-trib rapture.

Well, I'm stumped as to why that line was even important. We all have our opinions and I never try to pressure anyone to accept mine. On that note, I will tell you I don't back away from what I say or try to wiggle around it. That's not how I roll. Now if anyone is so terribly offended and upset by what I wrote all I can say is I've no clue why anyone would be but I regret if I made anyone feel bad. We PreTribs get lots of insults; I usually don't even slow down when I'm reading them. We can ALL be a little more civil, especially when it comes to the Rapture. It seems we've been arguing this for centuries.

Although the Srebrenica massacre was tragic and wrong, only one side of the story is being told here. For several hundred years Serbs were enslaved, persecuted and murdered by the brutal Ottoman Muslim regime. During World War 2, Orthodox Christian Serbs were persecuted by the Nazis with the full co-operation of the Croatian Ustaches and the Bosnian Muslim SS division. In fact the concentration camp at Jasenovac was probably worse than any other concentration camp including Auschwitz and Belsen. What happened there was unbelievably horrific and inhumane. The Serbs have not forgotten this, but it's not fashionable to tell their side of the story. Their retaliation against their former enemies may have been morally wrong but they were not the ones who started all of this.

Well, second part first. When a person says a Pre-tribber has a flawed understanding, then yes, that they are saying your understanding is inferior (unless they admit that their own understanding is also flawed). However, you are with missing my point (possibly I do not communicate well) or you are sidestepping what my point is. What you said was, that I objected to was: "The Pretrib Rapture is correct, to anyone who can see the truth in Scripture." That is not just saying that a position is superior or inferior. That would be a comment on a position, which could be supported or refuted with further discussion. It is not your opinion of the position that disturbs me, but your declaration or implication that those who disagree with the position you have chosen are those who cannot see the truth of scripture. There, it has become not a superiority/inferiority of positions, it has moved to persons, a division between those who can see the truth of scripture - pre-tribbers (people) and those who cannot see the truth of scripture (people who disagree with pre-tribbers. My point is that pre-tribbers do not have a monopoly on seeing the truth in scripture, and I mention this because rather that apologize to those you maligned, rather that really take back what you said, you have seemingly tried to make it look as though you said something different and have also attempted to shift the focus on those who challenged positions as if that is the same as saying that certain individuals belonging to the group of 'everyone' who is not a pre-tribber, do not see the truth of scripture. That strikes me as almost unbelievably arrogant, and I wonder, if you realize what a large group of people you are saying that of, particularly in the first 1900 years of the church, where only a handful of pre-tribbers can be identified as specifically pre-trib.

The way to look at this is quite simple: 1. The real history of Jesus is in the Gospels. 2. The "lost years" are none of our concern. So just study the Gospels, and be thankful that they are the inspired written Word of God.