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REVELATION 12:17 17 And the dragon was angry with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, who keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

we have the god of the heavens of Isaac ,Jacob and Abraham, and we have the holy spirit , and then we have Jesus or yeshua the son of the living God, and God himself,? we learn that the truth is the word , and we ask what is the word ? it is God !! in the beginning was the word and the word was with God and the word was God, and so to follow God , is to follow the word, for He is the word , and God, so if we follow God in our bibles , we then need to follow all of Gods word , and all that God has said, and it is for us to grow and learn and to be instructed of , to live in today as they did yesterday , and to be of God and to foillow God , is to follow the words of God, and all of the words of God, is valid , and for us today , we cannot follow or say we follow God if we pick and choose what we will believe and what we wont, for God is God, and he cannot and would not , and did not take anything away , that is our law today , and by the law of God. Jesus yeshua , came to us in the flesh to full fill the law and the prophets ? he said He did not come to abolish or put away the law, for to fulfill is and was completed on the CROSS, nailed there for all to see, and for we to believe and come to the feet of Jesus yeshua, and so , the cross, is the completion and the finished work done to carry out the law and the prophets, and to bring in the gift of grace, and salvation to all that follows and are abiding in Him, for we are now crucified in Christ, and yet, He lives, so now , we see that this was a life, given a divine God, of holiness and mans flesh to be the sacrifice, to save you and me and to bring us into the fellowship of God, and so , with that said, we cannot dismiss and word or law, if God has spoken it, and for nothing is put away , other then what could not be done , by the law, that moses first held, for before moses , He was, and He is the authority , and no man , of tradition, or mans belief can remove anything that God has given , in word and in deed, and in spirit , so be renewed in the spirit of our minds , put off the old man , and put on the new man , so do not be deceived to believe that any thing is voided out , and not valid, the scriptures and the word tells us, that nothing is put away , there is no condemnation to those that are in Christ Jesus , but we must understand the following of the word, and we will know, guided by the holy spirit , our eyes are open, to the love and compassion, and to see the beauty of the CROSS,,,, blessings to you all, and shalom

It is my belief that one is saved as soon as he/she prays to God for forgiveness of all sins, asking Jesus into your heart and vows to follow Him from that moment on. And welcome to Worthy, Psalmone!

I believe we never take enough time, to soak up the power of the word of God, and wanted to start by given out the first Psalm #1 blessings to all , and I pray this is good for you thoughts , Psalms 1:1 Blessed is the man that walketh not in the counsel of the ungodly, nor standeth in the way of sinners, nor sitteth in the seat of the scornful. Psalms 1:2 But his delight is in the law of the LORD; and in his law doth he meditate day and night. Psalms 1:3 And he shall be like a tree planted by the rivers of water, that bringeth forth his fruit in his season; his leaf also shall not wither; and whatsoever he doeth shall prosper. Psalms 1:4 The ungodly are not so: but are like the chaff which the wind driveth away. Psalms 1:5 Therefore the ungodly shall not stand in the judgment, nor sinners in the congregation of the righteous. Psalms 1:6 For the LORD knoweth the way of the righteous: but the way of the ungodly shall perish. shalom and peace

It's certainly not the rocket science that some make it out to be. Romans 10:9-13 - " That if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. For the Scripture says, "Whoever believes on Him will not be put to shame." For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek, for the same Lord over all is rich to all who call upon Him. For "whoever calls on the name of the LORD shall be saved." The belief has to transcend just the intellectual and must be - as the verse says - heartfelt. And those who are saved will yearn to become sanctified - even if they don't know that the word means - they will want to grow increasingly closer to Christ and separate from the world. And Ephesians 2:8-10 says that it's all about faith - there's that heart-changing "belief" again. And this passage says that God has works for us to do as believing Christians.

a person is saved , when they have surrendered all that they are and all that they have to a holy and righteous God, for it is Gods grace and the cross that we can have salvation, but when you have come to the understanding and the power of the love of God to send Jesus to die for you and for me, we then seek Him, and come to the foot of the cross, giving and repenting for our ways, and then we are forgiven, and blessed, and the Holy spirit , comes in, and you are truly sealed by God until that day of redemption, comes, but only when we have acknowledge the power , and the love of God for a person in need ,do we have true salvation for our souls and the proof of this saving is in the fruits of the spirit and the changing of your mind, to pout away the old man and to follow the ways of God, it is not by our strength , but by God, and this is how grace works , and so we need to produce fruit for the kingdom, and be cared for by the father in heaven , and read your bi9ble, and stay in the word always, blessings to you and peace,

You can go on and on all you want. To tell people they must read the King James Version is just not true. That is your preference but not mine. I have a KJV that my mom and dad gave me on my 18th birthday. A Scofield Bible and I love it. I"m not going to get into an argument with you. I want people to understand what they are reading and not struggle. The important thing is that they read it and have a relationship with God.

The Word “Church” in the Book of Revelation December 15, 2011 Pretribulationism maintains that since the actual word “church” (ekklēsia) does not appear in chapters 4–21, but is mentioned many times before chapter 4, it is assumed then that the church will be raptured before the events of chapter 4. This is very bad argumentation that is made in popular books, but rejected even by scholarly pretribulationism. Nevertheless, it is often the popular arguments that are influential so I will address this here. This form of argumentation is called the “word-concept” fallacy, an assumption that studying a word (or phrase) is the same as having studied the entire biblical concept. It is also known as the “concordance” method of interpretation: simply open up a concordance and finger down the page looking for usages of the word “church,” while excluding other terms that describe the church. It can be a beginning point for study, but word (or phrase) studies should certainly not end there. The problem with this method is that it does not take Scripture in a normal, natural, customary sense; hence, it is naive and completely ignores context. I will start with showing the absurdity of this argument by being absurd, followed by a few sensible responses. First, it may be asked why would the mention of “church” occur at the beginning of Revelation, but not throughout the book? It is erroneous to think that a New Testament writer is required to mention the term “church” throughout his writings to establish the application to the church. Paul only mentioned the term “church” once in the first chapter of his epistle to the Galatians. Do not Galatians chapters 2–6 apply to the church? The same can be said of 2 Thessalonians; the term “church” is only mentioned in chapter one. And in Colossians, the term is mentioned in the first and last chapters of the book. Does not the body of the letter to the Colossians apply to the church? So this method consistently applied is senseless. Second, the word “church” is absent from the books of Mark, Luke, John, 2 Timothy, Titus, 1 Peter, 2 Peter, 1 John, 2 John, and Jude. Does that mean those books do not pertain to the church? It is patently misguided to demand that the New Testament writers must only use the term “church” to discern if a passage applies to the church. Third, the word “church” is absent from rapture passages: 1Thessalonians 4:13–17 and John 14:1–4. Following their logic, are we right to conclude that the church will not be raptured? Of course not! Fourth, the word “church” is absent from the heavenly scenes in Revelation 4–5. But heaven is the one place we would expect to find the church where pretribulationism says it will be at that time (because of their allegorical interpretation that sees Revelation 4:1 representing the church being caught up). The word “church” is also absent from Revelation chapters 19–20. Will the church not participate in rejoicing in heaven and the marriage supper of the Lamb? Moreover, the Bride of Christ is found in Revelation 19:7 but the word “church” is never mentioned. Is the Bride then not the church? (cf. Rev 21:2!). Fifth, nowhere in the book of Revelation does the use of the word “church” ever denote the Church in its totality nor in the sense of the faithful universal church. Every mention of church(es) in Revelation denotes historical local churches in first century Asia Minor. And Revelation is addressed to seven churches not just one, which explains why the term “church” is used frequently at the beginning of the book. (Incidentally, the apostle John in his gospel and epistles never used the term church in the sense of the universal church; instead, he exercised his literary freedom to employ other terms to denote believers who were part of the church.) Sixth, who are the recipients of the book of Revelation? Revelation 1:1 says, “The revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave him to show his servants (doulos) what must happen very soon” (Rev 1:1). The term used is “servants” (doulos). It will be the servants within the professing church who will endure persecution for their faith. The message is for them: Revelation 22:6 says, “Then the angel said to me, ‘These words are reliable and true. The Lord, the God of the spirits of the prophets, has sent his angel to show his servants what must happen soon’” (Rev 22:6). It is the servants/true believers/saints/the elect of God/those who hold to the testimony of Christ who will endure struggle and persecution and be ultimately victorious. Seventh, the word “saints” is used 59 times in the New Testament to refer to a true believer in Christ, a member of the true church. For example, the apostle Paul, recalling his days when he persecuted the church, equates the church with saints (compare Phil 3:6 and Acts 26:10). Pretribulationism claims that the reference to saints in the book of Revelation is some special group of “tribulation saints.” This falsely creates a new class of Christians apart from the church. Pretribulationism would have us believe that the saints in Revelation 13:7, who are being persecuted by Antichrist, cannot be part of the church; but they fail to see that the saints who are described as the Bride of Christ in Revelation 19:8 are the church! This false distinction is indicative of a flawed theological system forcing itself upon Scripture to reach their preconceived conclusion. http://www.alankurschner.com/2011/12/15/why-is-the-word-church-not-mentioned-in-revelation-4%e2%80%9321/ Try again

By the way Lavender you don't have to use the King James Bible. You may use a translation that is easier for you to understand. I use the New King James. God will reveal Himself to you. It's hard to understand the Three in One, the Trinity but you will understand it. The Bible tells us to walk by faith and not by sight. It's OK to say to God, " You know Lord I don't understand all of this but I"m going to trust you that if it says in Your Word it's true then I believe it" He honors your heart and will always make a way for you to understand. So just trust Him and you will do fine. If you have any questions we have a chat room where you can come in and ask us questions there and get one on one answers. We look forward to see you here often. Because He Lives RustyAngeL

First off Jesus is God. Before Abraham was IAM. When you see God in the Bible MOST of the time its referring to the Godhead Father Son Holy Ghost. Jesus is the Godhead if saved you have the Godhead in you because you have the spirit of Christ. You pray to God the Father in the name of God the Son. KJV John 16:23 And in that day ye shall ask me nothing. Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whatsoever ye shall ask the Father in my name, he will give it you You can only have prayer answered if you have God the Holy Ghost dwelling in you. KJV Rom 8:26 Likewise the Spirit also helpeth our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit itself maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered. Three distinct persons all in ONE God. The Godhead is present in prayer. Its present in salvation YOU DONT COME TO GOD THE SON unless God the Father draws you to his son. KJV John 6:44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day. Repentance toward God faith towards Jesus Christ. Then God the Son spiritually baptizes you in God the Holy Ghost. KJV Titus 3:5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost; If you dont have or know the Godhead you will NEVER have fellowship with God Almighty 1Jn 5:7 For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one

Yours is a valid question, Lavender. You can pray to Jesus or pray to God because Jesus IS God. Remember God the father, God the Son, God the Holy Spirit. They are the three parts of our triune God. So go ahead and pray to whichever one you want to. Your prayers will be heard. The only thing to worry about is NOT praying.

I was anticipating a song that would make fun of Christians. This was a nice surprise! After all, it IS a legitimate questions. What would atheists have to sing about anyway?

This is beginning to seem pointless. The very first thing in my post was the definition for stranger. I provided the Strong's Definition of the word translated as "stranger as well as its root." Is that definition not sufficient? Also, I did not say that only Judah dwelt in the Southern kingdom. I said it was mainly Judah, Benjamin and Levi. It seems like most of what you respond to me with are things that I did not say. If you have carefully read through my posts, you will see that I have provided multiple scriptures from both OT and NT pertaining to these topics. The House of Israel (the Ten Northern tribes) were taken into Assyria a long time before the southern kingdom Judah was taken to Babylon. Some of those who were taken to Babylon, but many did not. Not many of the Ten northern tribes returned. 1 Kings 11:31-34 And he said to Jeroboam, Take thee ten pieces: for thus saith the Lord, the God of Israel, Behold, I will rend the kingdom out of the hand of Solomon, and will give ten tribes to thee:32 (But he shall have one tribe for my servant David's sake, and for Jerusalem's sake, the city which I have chosen out of all the tribes of Israel:)33 Because that they have forsaken me, and have worshipped Ashtoreth the goddess of the Zidonians, Chemosh the god of the Moabites, and Milcom the god of the children of Ammon, and have not walked in my ways, to do that which is right in mine eyes, and to keep my statutes and my judgments, as did David his father.34 Howbeit I will not take the whole kingdom out of his hand: but I will make him prince all the days of his life for David my servant's sake, whom I chose, because he kept my commandments and my statutes:35 But I will take the kingdom out of his son's hand, and will give it unto thee, even ten tribes. Ezekiel 37:10-12 So I prophesied as he commanded me, and the breath came into them, and they lived, and stood up upon their feet, an exceeding great army.11 Then he said unto me, Son of man, these bones are the whole house of Israel: behold, they say, Our bones are dried, and our hope is lost: we are cut off for our parts.12 Therefore prophesy and say unto them, Thus saith the Lord God; Behold, O my people, I will open your graves, and cause you to come up out of your graves, and bring you into the land of Israel. Ezekiel 37:19-23 19 Say unto them, Thus saith the Lord God; Behold, I will take the stick of Joseph, which is in the hand of Ephraim, and the tribes of Israel his fellows, and will put them with him, even with the stick of Judah, and make them one stick, and they shall be one in mine hand.20 And the sticks whereon thou writest shall be in thine hand before their eyes.21 And say unto them, Thus saith the Lord God; Behold, I will take the children of Israel from among the heathen, whither they be gone, and will gather them on every side, and bring them into their own land:22 And I will make them one nation in the land upon the mountains of Israel; and one king shall be king to them all: and they shall be no more two nations, neither shall they be divided into two kingdoms any more at all.23 Neither shall they defile themselves any more with their idols, nor with their detestable things, nor with any of their transgressions: but I will save them out of all their dwellingplaces, wherein they have sinned, and will cleanse them: so shall they be my people, and I will be their God. Jeremiah 16:14-16 Therefore, behold, the days come, saith the Lord, that it shall no more be said, The Lord liveth, that brought up the children of Israel out of the land of Egypt;15 But, The Lord liveth, that brought up the children of Israel from the land of the north, and from all the lands whither he had driven them: and I will bring them again into their land that I gave unto their fathers.16 Behold, I will send for many fishers, saith the Lord, and they shall fish them; and after will I send for many hunters, and they shall hunt them from every mountain, and from every hill, and out of the holes of the rocks. Jeremiah 23:6-7 In his days Judah shall be saved, and Israel shall dwell safely: and this is his name whereby he shall be called, The Lord Our Righteousness.7 Therefore, behold, the days come, saith the Lord, that they shall no more say, The Lord liveth, which brought up the children of Israel out of the land of Egypt;8 But, The Lord liveth, which brought up and which led the seed of the house of Israel out of the north country, and from all countries whither I had driven them; and they shall dwell in their own land. Isaiah 27:12-13 And it shall come to pass in that day, that the Lord shall beat off from the channel of the river unto the stream of Egypt, and ye shall be gathered one by one, O ye children of Israel.13 And it shall come to pass in that day, that the great trumpet shall be blown, and they shall come which were ready to perish in the land of Assyria, and the outcasts in the land of Egypt, and shall worship the Lord in the holy mount at Jerusalem. Jeremiah 31:10 Hear the word of the Lord, O ye nations, and declare it in the isles afar off, and say, He that scattered Israel will gather him, and keep him, as a shepherd doth his flock. Jeremiah 50:17 Israel is a scattered sheep; the lions have driven him away: first the king of Assyria hath devoured him; and last this Nebuchadrezzar king of Babylon hath broken his bones. 2 Chronicles 18:16 Then he said, I did see all Israel scattered upon the mountains, as sheep that have no shepherd: and the Lord said, These have no master; let them return therefore every man to his house in peace. Matthew 9:36 But when he saw the multitudes, he was moved with compassion on them, because they fainted, and were scattered abroad, as sheep having no shepherd. Ezekiel 11:17 Therefore say, Thus saith the Lord God; I will even gather you from the people, and assemble you out of the countries where ye have been scattered, and I will give you the land of Israel. Ezekiel 28:25 Thus saith the Lord God; When I shall have gathered the house of Israel from the people among whom they are scattered, and shall be sanctified in them in the sight of the heathen, then shall they dwell in their land that I have given to my servant Jacob. Joel 3:2 I will also gather all nations, and will bring them down into the valley of Jehoshaphat, and will plead with them there for my people and for my heritage Israel, whom they have scattered among the nations, and parted my land. Zechariah 1:19 And I said unto the angel that talked with me, What be these? And he answered me, These are the horns which have scattered Judah, Israel, and Jerusalem. John 11:52 And not for that nation only, but that also he should gather together in one the children of God that were scattered abroad. James 1:1 James, a servant of God and of the Lord Jesus Christ, to the twelve tribes which are scattered abroad, greeting.

Ex 12:48-49 And when a stranger shall sojourn with thee, and will keep the passover to the LORD, let all his males be circumcised, and then let him come near and keep it; and he shall be as one that is born in the land: for no uncircumcised person shall eat thereof. 49 One law shall be to him that is homeborn, and unto the stranger that sojourneth among you. OT:1616 ger (gare); or (fully) geyr (gare); from OT:1481; properly, a guest; by implication, a foreigner: KJV - alien, sojourner, stranger. OT:1481 guwr (goor); a primitive root; properly, to turn aside from the road (for a lodging or any other purpose), i.e. sojourn (as a guest); also to shrink, fear (as in a strange place); also to gather for hostility (as afraid): KJV - abide, assemble, be afraid, dwell, fear, gather (together), inhabitant, remain, sojourn, stand in awe, (be) stranger, surely. Ephesians 2:11-13 Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands;12 That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:13 But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ. Romans 11:13-25 13 For I speak to you Gentiles, inasmuch as I am the apostle of the Gentiles, I magnify mine office:14 If by any means I may provoke to emulation them which are my flesh, and might save some of them.15 For if the casting away of them be the reconciling of the world, what shall the receiving of them be, but life from the dead?16 For if the firstfruit be holy, the lump is also holy: and if the root be holy, so are the branches. 17 And if some of the branches be broken off, and thou, being a wild olive tree, wert grafted in among them, and with them partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree;18 Boast not against the branches. But if thou boast, thou bearest not the root, but the root thee.19 Thou wilt say then, The branches were broken off, that I might be grafted in. 20 Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear:21 For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee.22 Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off. 23 And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be grafted in: for God is able to graft them in again.24 For if thou wert cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and wert grafted contrary to nature into a good olive tree: how much more shall these, which be the natural branches, be grafted into their own olive tree? 25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in. Verse 25 is a reference to Genesis 49.

Yes, the feasts which are God's were given to Israel. However, if you will notice in several passages it mentions both "home born and the stranger among you." You may have not seen the other scriptures that I quoted that refers to "all nations" keeping the Feast of Tabernacles or "all flesh" keeping the new moons and the Sabbath. You might want to also look at the Hebrews passage that I quoted above regarding the Sabbath as well as Isaiah that mentions the "stranger." So yes the promises and covenants were to Israel. There has not been a covenant made specifically with the Gentiles. However Gentiles can be part of these things and are invited to be grafted in. (Rom 11) Ephesians 2:11-13 Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands;12 That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:13 But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ. Even the brit chadesha (renewed covenant) was made with the House of Israel and the House of Judah. Hebrews 8:8 For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah: What is this covenant? 9 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord. 10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people: 11 And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest. So we see that the new covenant was made with Israel and Judah. A big aspect of this covenant is that now the Torot (laws) are written within as well. We see also this from Ezekiel: Ezekiel 36:24-27 24 For I will take you from among the heathen, and gather you out of all countries, and will bring you into your own land. 25 Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you.26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.27 And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them. This covenant with Israel creates a renewed heart so that they will keep the "chukim" statutes and "mishpatim "judgements." We must also understand that the concept that most have of the word "church" is not in line with scripture. The English word "church" in the NT is "ecclessia." This corresponds directly to the Hebrew word "kahal" that is found throughout the Tanakh (OT). We do even see in the English the "church" at Mount Sinai. Acts 7:38 This is he, that was in the church in the wilderness with the angel which spake to him in the mount Sinai, and with our fathers: who received the lively oracles to give unto us: That being said, even in the first century, most of the early followers of Y'shua were Jews and others from the tribes. The leadership positions were Jewish for a while and then as far as I know there was never another Jewish Bishop or other leaders. Especially once things were moved to Rome which didn't take long. After this, it was predominantly a Gentile populace and began to look very different quickly. It is also important to understand that the term "Jew" did not develop until much later. It was not the "Jews" who came out of Egypt, but Israel which included "Judah." Later the kingdom of Israel (10 northern tribes) split from the kingdom of Judah. Within the kingdom of Judah was mainly Judah, Benjamin and some Levites. All of the tribes, especially the 10 northern ones were scattered throughout the earth. Though many have lost their identity, those who put their trust in YHVH will be gathered one by one.

Ezra, I showed from scripture that the Almighty said that "These are my feasts." (Lev 23) He is the one that invented them, not the Jews. I quoted a plethora of passages using words such as forever and everlasting regarding the feasts. Are all of those verses untrue? I have also shown references to Paul keeping feasts in the NT and making the statement "Therefore let us keep the feast." (1 Cor 5) I have shown him and others keeping the Sabbath and attending Synagogue. (All through Acts by the way) I have also shown the New Moons, Sabbath and Feasts in the future. Does it make any sense that the Most High said to do these things forever many times, then abolish them so that they should not be kept and then bring them back and demand that people keep them in the future? (Is 66, Zec 14) I have listed many scriptures that make it clear that many of these things are forever. As I have said, I have shown also these things in the NT as well. Yet I don't recall you citing much scripture to establish your points.

Good points SinnerSaved, Reinitin and Cletus. It is unfortunate, but most people have merely inherited a very bad set of beliefs that that hold to be true. I know that I did. Most unfortunately have very little idea what the scriptures say whether Tanakh or NT. They have listened and trusted in leaders who in many cases don't know much either. Many of these people adamantly defend the Bible and claim that there are no contradictions in it. Yet, too often these are the same people who hold to theologies that are a complete contradiction. As Reintin illustrated above. We could ask people in an average church to raise their hand if they believe the Messiah was in the grave three days and three nights. Most would raise their hands. We could then ask of them if they believe that he died Friday at 3:00pm and rose early Sunday morning. They would raise their hands again and respond like Pavlov's dogs. We could ask "How many of you know that Jesus did away with the law? Most would again raise their hands. We could say How many of you know that you must tithe and you are under a curse if you don't? Those kinds of questions could probably go on and on. Unfortunately, it isn't harmless in many cases. For as it is written. "My people perish for lack of knowledge." Most have the idea of the age of the law and then the age of the gospel. They do not realize that the Torah is still valid and remains. Likewise, the gospel has been around a long, long time. It is not the 2,000 year old gospel, but as it is written, "the everlasting gospel." This was the gospel that Abraham had preached to him. (Galatians 3) This was the gospel that was preached to the children of Israel when they were in the wilderness. (Hebrews 4:2) The Messiah did not suddenly come into existence 2,000 years ago. For as it is written. "Abraham saw my day." And again, Moses esteemed the suffering of Messiah greater than the riches of Egypt. And again, the prophets spoke by the spirit of Messiah. The children of Israel ate of the spiritual bread from heaven which was Messiah. For as it is written, "Moses gave you not that bread from heaven, for the bread of God is he that cometh down from heaven. The children of Israel drank of that spiritual rock that followed them which was Messiah as it is written. (1 Cor 10) People do not understand what they are doing when they speak evil of the law and turn away their ear's from hearing it. Proverbs 28:4 They that forsake the law praise the wicked: but such as keep the law contend with them. Proverbs 28:9 He that turns away his ear from hearing the law, even his prayer shall be abomination. Most of the time the major errors concerning the Torah are based upon a gross misunderstanding of Shaul (Paul's) writings. Granted Paul wrote many things that are difficult to understand that people who are unlearned and unstable twist to their own destruction as they do the rest of the scriptures. 2 Peter 3) However Paul makes it clear that the law is good and holy and that rather than making the law void through faith God forbid: We establish it. There is but one faith as it is written and that one faith establishes the law rather than making it void. Yet, the Messiah questioned "Will the son of man find faith on the earth when he returns?" Paul told us to be followers of him even as he followed the Messiah. Both kept the Sabbath, feasts, etc. Y'shua clearly did not want anyone believing that he came to destroy the law. He said to not think that. Matthew 5:17-19 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. 18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. 19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven. Clearly heaven and earth have not passed away, so that means not one letter of the Torah has past away. In fact, as it is written, "it is easier for heaven and earth to pass away than one decoration on the letters to fail." Luke 16:17 And it is easier for heaven and earth to pass, than one tittle of the law to fail. After his Damascus road experience Paul still considered himself a Pharisee of Phariseees and blameless concerning the law. He claimed to believe everything written in the law and the prophets and not to be saying anything any different than what they do. However there was still confusion even in his day about his message. Believe it or not, there were people in that day that thought he was some how teaching against the law. To clear up the matter Paul partook in a Nazarite vow including animal sacrifices to prove that all of those allegations were nothing, but they he walked orderly and kept the Torah. Acts 21:18-26 18 And the day following Paul went in with us unto James; and all the elders were present. 19 And when he had saluted them, he declared particularly what things God had wrought among the Gentiles by his ministry. 20 And when they heard it, they glorified the Lord, and said unto him, Thou seest, brother, how many thousands of Jews there are which believe; and they are all zealous of the law: 21 And they are informed of thee, that thou teachest all the Jews which are among the Gentiles to forsake Moses, saying that they ought not to circumcise their children, neither to walk after the customs. 22 What is it therefore? the multitude must needs come together: for they will hear that thou art come. 23 Do therefore this that we say to thee: We have four men which have a vow on them; 24 Them take, and purify thyself with them, and be at charges with them, that they may shave their heads: and all may know that those things, whereof they were informed concerning thee, are nothing; but that thou thyself also walkest orderly, and keepest the law. 25 As touching the Gentiles which believe, we have written and concluded that they observe no such thing, save only that they keep themselves from things offered to idols, and from blood, and from strangled, and from fornication. 26 Then Paul took the men, and the next day purifying himself with them entered into the temple, to signify the accomplishment of the days of purification, until that an offering should be offered for every one of them. I'm sure that Paul thought that all of the false accusations would be behind him. He could have said "You are all correct, Yes, the law has been done away with and that is what I teach." Instead, he spent lots of his own money and time in performing those acts in the temple including sacrifices to prove that the charges are false and that he walks orderly and keeps the law. What more could he have done to clear matters up? 1 Corinthians 5:8 Therefore let us keep the feast, not with old leaven, neither with the leaven of malice and wickedness; but with the unleavened bread of sincerity and truth. Acts 18:21 But bade them farewell, saying, I must by all means keep this feast that cometh in Jerusalem: but I will return again unto you, if God will. And he sailed from Ephesus. Acts 20:6 And we sailed away from Philippi after the days of unleavened bread, and came unto them to Troas in five days; where we abode seven days. Acts 13:14 But when they departed from Perga, they came to Antioch in Pisidia, and went into the synagogue on the sabbath day, and sat down. Acts 13:42And then the Jews were gone out of the synagogue, the Gentiles besought that these words might be preached to them the next sabbath. Acts 13:44 And the next sabbath day came almost the whole city together to hear the word of God. Acts 17:2 And Paul, as his manner was, went in unto them, and three sabbath days reasoned with them out of the scriptures, Acts 18:4 And he reasoned in the synagogue every sabbath, and persuaded the Jews and the Greeks. So we would have to come to the conclusion that Paul was a hypocrite, schizophrenic, or that a hand full passages that he wrote as a Pharisee of Pharisees and blameless concerning the law have been greatly misunderstood by people who are unlearned and unstable. 2 Peter 3:15-16 And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you; 16 As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.

I started reading my bible and went to the beginning , in the book of genesis , and God is saying let us separate the waters under the firmament, and above the firmament, and above it will be called heaven , and the waters below are called the waters of the earth , I never under stood the word , firmament,? and picked up another bible, and its calls it a Dome, ? what does that mean ? in genesis chapter # 1, verses 6,7,8,9. psalms 150 :1, Ezekiel 1,22,23.,24,25,26. &10;1 and Daniel 12 ;3 has that word firmament, or talks about this? what does that mean , are we in a fish bowl ? is the blue skies , really water ? heavens floor ? if anyone can help me out ,to see what are they talking about, that be great , thank you and blessings,

God has commanded us to go out and preach the word of God, the Holy word of a Holy God, and we are to not ,be just, hearers of the words , but the doers, we are to bring the good news, and to be in line with Gods will, and follow the instructions set forth to His followers, we are to be in the world , but not of the world , we are to preach and be ready in and out of season, ready to give the word for what we believe and why we believe, we are not waved by emotions and feelings , but to be guided by the holy spirit , and to be in spirit and in truth , 2 Timothy 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: 2 Timothy 4:2 Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine. 2 Timothy 4:3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; 2 Timothy 4:4 And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables. 2 Timothy 4:5 But watch thou in all things, endure afflictions, do the work of an evangelist, make full proof of thy ministry. we are not to just hear the word, we are to hold to the truth given to us, and to follow the ways of Jesus and to be loving and compassionate, towards one, another, but if we rebuke, and correct another, it is done in kindness , and not judgment , so to save them as pulling them out of the fire, we are not to be swayed by other doctrines and man made traditions, but to follow only the word of God, any thing else, is a abomination, and so this is what God has told us in the bible, and for the word is complete and Holy , that we should be Holy, for the chastening is bitter, but in the end it is to save, and to learn of the God we serve, for we cannot come to God in any other way , but in spirit and in truth , and not bearing false witness of another, for every word and thought is accounted, if it be to righteousness, or to judgment, , we do not drink milk any more, we need the solid word of God, thank you

okay , i have to bring this to the table, and its not to say , if our Lord Jesus walked the earth , it be good to know what we can about Him other then His words and that He was the son of God, we all know that He was a Nazarene in a town of Galilee , and so it goes , that we have the bible, that has been translated from , greek , and Hebrew, and then to English, but was there a Aramaic start to this , as far as language,. and ethnic back ground, ? i am asking to try to clear this up for my research , and so i want to make it easy , and simple of what i am asking, and it may be a few questions, to get the right answers , if i do this right , okay and thank you in advance i am not wanting to be rude , or discriminating at all, but to find answers. okay , if Jesus came from Nazareth , what nationality was He ? was He a Arabic, culture at the time, jewish ? Hebrew , greek , or something else ? was Jesus of a dark skin, or white skin, or a brown skin complexion? was the bible first written in what language to what language to English, what language would have Jesus spoken while here walking side by side with man ? did He come for just one race, or all races to the jew and the gentile? just asking, and thank you , and blessings to you all this is for information ,,or where can we get information or resources to these questions, thank you peace,........

I went and seen the movie Gods not dead two, and it was awesome, and very powerful , and yet the sad thing is that it shows the condition we are in today as the country has turned its back on God and has made rules and laws, to keep God out of eveywhere and silence, him it was a great movie and i would watch it again.

I have noticed that many Christians today are saying they are Christian, and go to church , and through the motions, of what they believe in there minds that they should be doing, and yet most do not open their bibles, nor do they set time, alone, or quiet time, to study or pray, and depend on God to do all the work, and be there and to take care of there needs, and some, out side ideas that you can pray it , and get it attitude, but that goes with another topic, but those that want God to be doing for them and to meet there needs but yet, never understanding and coming to the foot of the cross, is like saying you are on a basket Ball team, and for practice, you are practicing your golf swing? I think the mind of Christians and or believers need to get their priorities in line, to see who they are worshiping , and why ? I.E. we cannot speak the language if we do not know the meaning, there is to many not understanding that the bible is one of the most important tools that we have and by the word of God , we learn the laws the commandments and the teachings, of what we need to be doing, we cannot continue to sit and listen it is time, to do , and to take the word of God in to the world and to be the tool in what ever you do , to shed the light of the word to others to many people are taking the talk and assuming whats in the bibles, and not reading it, and not applying it to there lives, and so I made this topic to address just that, for the day is coming , that we will and may not have a choice, and our time, has come, ? we need to be seeking God, now , and getting right with God, so we can be right with others, following the law of God and instruction, is following the word . thank you and blessings ....................

so let me ask you this Jayne, which bible do you use as your main bible, and why do you think yours is the best one? I use the kjv, but have others ? thank you for the info, much blessings to you thank you

thats interesting thanks, let me know when you have more info ? thank you brother

You asked .. therefore go to http://www.davidjayjordan.com/Anti-ChristsProphecies.html Even though this might have been a t___. Nevertheless, give an answer to her that asketh thee in sincerity.

thanks brother that was really good, and with scripture to back it up, Hebrew is what many draw to , but i was thinking there be Aramaic involvement, prior to the bibles being translated, and then we see there is also a latin, translation, i don't even know how that was placed in there, but i am, trying to line up the dots, blessings and shalom

yes , the son of God, but he came to a place, of calling and to a people , and spoke, and so He had to be of a origin with in the people of a ethnic race and language to communicate and to be able to fit in, ? there is still things that kept Him in with the people , and not stand out, for He had to grow up , and be part of the culture and belief system of the time, ? thank you Otherone,

Question: "Who is the antichrist?" Answer: There is much speculation about the identity of the Antichrist. Some of the more popular targets are Vladimir Putin, Prince William, Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, and Pope Francis I. In the United States, current President Barack Obama, and presidential candidates Donald Trump and Hillary Clinton are the most frequent targets. So, who is the Antichrist, and how will we recognize him? The Bible really does not say anything specific about where the Antichrist will come from. Many Bible scholars speculate that he will come from a confederacy of ten nations and/or a reborn Roman empire (Daniel 7:24-25; Revelation 17:7). Others see him as having to be a Jew in order to claim to be the Messiah. It is all just speculation since the Bible does not specifically say where the Antichrist will come from or what race he will be. One day, the Antichrist will be revealed. Second Thessalonians 2:3-4 tells us how we will recognize the Antichrist: “Don't let anyone deceive you in any way, for that day will not come until the rebellion occurs and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the man doomed to destruction. He will oppose and will exalt himself over everything that is called God or is worshiped, so that he sets himself up in God's temple, proclaiming himself to be God.” It is likely that most people who are alive when the Antichrist is revealed will be very surprised at his identity. The Antichrist may or may not be alive today. Martin Luther was convinced that the pope in his time was the Antichrist. During the 1940’s, many believed Adolph Hitler was the Antichrist. Others who have lived in the past few hundred years have been equally sure as to the identity of the Antichrist. So far, they have all been incorrect. We should put the speculations behind us and focus on what the Bible actually says about the Antichrist. Revelation 13:5-8 declares, “The beast was given a mouth to utter proud words and blasphemies and to exercise his authority for forty-two months. He opened his mouth to blaspheme God, and to slander his name and his dwelling place and those who live in heaven. He was given power to make war against the saints and to conquer them. And he was given authority over every tribe, people, language and nation. All inhabitants of the earth will worship the beast—all whose names have not been written in the book of life belonging to the Lamb that was slain from the creation of the world.” http://www.gotquestions.org/antichrist.html

It's customary to post sources for information posted. I don't have time to research these things. If you could post the sources it would be great.

Ezra , my brother , i want to welcome you to respond to my topic the origin of the antichrist ,who could it be , it is posted, and i would like for you to respond, and comment on it, for you have a in sight of the antichrist, i have a topic for it, and give us your view and thought on it, i give you my word not to , be unkind or even reply to it, i am gathering all thoughts and peoples ideas for this is just a research for my notes and understanding thank you Ezra, peace

Since the Antichrist is called *THE MAN of Sin*, it is quite clear that he is in fact a human being possessed and/or controlled totally by Satan. Just as Judas Iscariot was possessed by Satan and called *the Son of Perdition* this man is called by the very same title. Indeed, since he will have full access to the Temple at Jerusalem, he must of necessity be a renegade Jew, not a Gentile. Furthermore, he must be able (through his lying signs and wonders) to convince Orthodox Jews that he is their long-awaited Messiah. Satan tried to get Jesus to go to the pinnacle of the Temple and throw Himself down to dazzle the Jews. Perhaps this man may actually try this stunt and arrive on the ground unscathed.

you have spoken well and I understand exactly what you said and your intensions behind it, you are in line with scripture , and you have done your home work, do not let the others try to rattle your cage,or try to corner you in terminology, and or ,correction there is none needed , they are just trying to pervert the truth , and twist your words, for you are following the spirit of God, and doing a great Job, blessings to you brother, and shalom.....

Yes, me and extensive prophecy verifications and research. My own and standard prophecy ministers etc etc... Vladislav Surkov can easily be studied, online. I also have gotten confirmations through people that know him directly in Russia. Have youi done research on him as yet ? Allow me not to post my hyperlinks as yet, as they might be deemed an unfair advantage, or other reason.

Can you post any verifying sources for the above?

Please post Scripture to support that.

Good AC compilation of verses..... But apply these to current events, and it might have more impact on readers. I would suggest the AC is Russian and his name is Vladislav Surkov..... as menyioned for about five years. He is second in Russia. His counterpart the False prophet is the leader of Christian Russia, the High Priest of Moscow with 100 million followers, the Eastern part of the Roman Catholoic Church System... the Orthodox Russian Church. His name is Kirill. So beheading will not be done by minor Muslims but by the authority of a supposed Christian country for the sake of putting fear in te hearts of their religious following. Take the Mark or Die.

Isaiah 14:12 "How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!" Isaiah 14:13 "For thou hast said in thine heart, `I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:" Daniel 8:23 "And in the latter time of their kingdom, when the transgressors are come to the full, a king of fierce countenance, and under standing dark sentences, shall stand up." Daniel 8:24 "And his power shall be mighty, but not by his own power: and he shall destroy wonderfully, and shall prosper, and practise, and shall destroy the mighty and the holy People." Daniel 8:25 "And through his policy also he shall cause craft to prosper in his hand; and he shall magnify himself in his heart, and by peace shall destroy many: he shall also stand up against the Prince of princes; but he shall be broken without hand." II Thessalonians 2:3 "Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;" II Thessalonians 2:4 "Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God." Revelation 9:11 "And they had a king over them, which is the angel of the bottomless pit, whose name in the He'-brew tongue is A-bad'-don, but in the Greek tongue hath his [the] name A-pol'-ly-on." There can be no doubt who the Antichrist is. Jesus is telling us here, through the pen of John. Satan is that King; and "Abaddon" in the Hebrew language means "destroyer" and that is Satan's name. This is verified in the Greek the name, "Apollyon" [Strongs # 623, "the destroyer "Satan"]. Revelation 12:9 "And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Sa'-tan, which deceived the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him." Revelation 12:12 "Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time." Revelation 13:13 "And he doeth great wonders, so that he maketh fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men." Revelation 13:14 "And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live." This is the whole object for the great tribulation. "DECEPTION"! Matthew 24:4 "And Jesus answered and said unto them, "Take heed that no man deceive you." This is the number one warning, "Take heed that no man deceive you." Deception will be the foremost thing to guard against in the latter days, that will consummate the end of this age. This means that these events will not happen all at one time, but will take place over a period of time. These warnings or signs that Jesus is about to give us, are the seven seals that are given us in the Book of Revelation.

How can one not know? satan is the anti christ,not a man possesed but satan himself,not a man appointed by satan,but satan himself......

The two part man, spirit and flesh, has a problem in that his carnal mind is enmity against God therefore even the bloodline of Abraham are enemies of Christ. But what dod God say? "For I know him, that he will command his children and his household after him, and they shall keep the way of the LORD, to do justice and judgment; that the LORD may bring upon Abraham that which he hath spoken of him." But the scripture says that though they be as the sand if the sea only a remnant shall be saved and narrow is the way unto life and few there be who find it. Jesus acknowledged that these were infact children of Abraham but pointed out the truth that they were not of God. They were simply born of the flesh and needed to be born of God through the Spirit if they were to have life. It is written that Gods Spirit pleads with or strives with man's spirit but only for a short time because man is also flesh. One cannot work with men unless first the men are born of the spirit rather than the flesh. Therefore EVERYONE begins as an imposter in need of becoming a child of God. For it is written that we are all the offspring of God yet not every man has the knowledge of God, therefore we have been given charge and are responsible for seeking to reconcile all unto God through the spirit by preaching and teaching the gospel of God by word AND deed. Peace

James does have a lot of advise for the believer , and how to walk in the light of God, thank you for that brother, its great scripture, shalom

I like that advertisement, it says it all forsure, very funny . thanks

you are correct Otherone, I also have found that Abraham and moses and jesus is used in four different bibles, and religions, and in the quran, they have used the opposite, of what is written, and to be a opposing way of bringing their fight to the world , it was designed and orchestrated, to make Jesus a prophet, for a reason I wont get into , and it tells us, in ours it was Isaac that was the chosen one to be sacrifice and they used His half brother ishmel , to get the divide, in there, that's what I read in the quran, and that's how I have learned the truth of God by reading what was in opposition, to strengthen my believe in the truth, and now I am firm about this and the ways of the muslim movement, for we are awaiting Jesus ,God, and they are awaiting the ( Mahdi ) which is there messiah ? and HE WILL come to usher in , get this, and it states it in my dictionary of Islamic words, to usher in a new world order , ? wow , do you see , how amazing, what information tells us, who would have known, about a new order , for the world , Huh....?that's just crazy, it also talks about the angel Gabriel, but research shows me, that there is a made up angel which is really named and spelled gabreel , and where our bible talks of Jesus in love and to love one another ?, the other says to lie kill and destroy the infidels, and so it is only obvious ,the root of the origins of where this counterfeit came,? from so , you can see it in today, in clear view, that it is not hidden, but out in the open ,if you are wise to catch it, all of it was designed to unfold as the times were appointed, ? and now is the appointed times, of a very cunning and deceptive plan ,that took centuries to unfold but it was still a plan started from the start , and to come to unfold as it did, then we know? satan is alive and well today , and still at it, bringing men to kill others and to still there souls, and to reject God , until he is taken out, and the end has come , it was never a human design,? to be a genius and set this up , but a evil ,and wicked spirit of demonic and of intellect , powerful to make men do what is not right and to do evil that God would not allow, and skill to craft this, for the times we live in, to become the chaos we see today , and so I say we are the last generation, for it cannot hold back from it self any more, and our bible tells us we are even at the doors, blessings and peace to you ..............

do you think that would solve our problem , ? is that the answer, ? NO it is NOT ? and why ? because if we love as God loves us, would we take away what He gives, ? are we the Gods of this world and say , as a women , doctor , or government, that the baby dies, and I have made my decision ? does that even sound like a reasonable, statement, ? NO, abortion is legal and its made legal , for the purpose, of money and evil ,? the SINFUL nature we have to do , and be who we are and what we do , with out a GOD ! in our world today , makes it easy to do us we please, and have what we want, ! it is God that told us we are , evil and sinful and the heart is wicked and who would no this then the God that breaths life, and we take it away , so what would this really be considered, ? we reject God, and do as we please, we educate and make laws and rules to satisfy and to justify , our own evils, we take from the poor and please the rich , for in this world the rich that is with out God has there rewards now, and yet later will be desolate, and destroyed, and the poor, are oppressed and follow , what they can and are stopped at every turn, it is not about should it or not, and what we believe, ? it is what is going to be in a world ran by the devil himself, ? did you think that we are in a world that justice , and love is going to prevail ? we are in the dark ages and have destroyed even life, it self and we don't even wink a eye, its sad of what we have be come, and God is going to have His revenge and justice, , the wrath of God comes to remove all that is against , and all the wrong , will vanish , so the next time, some one says if God loved us this would not happen, you can tell them then why do they allow abortions, this is not Gods doing but ours, as a society , are we seeing the in God we trust ? blessings and peace

how about some one start a flat and round earth topic, and lets add the moon landing and if that flag shows a major , fakery ? I think we have been duped,? as a people , and our intelligence ? and our feelings ?

okay cool , thank you

I think we need to find out if the moon landing is fake, if it is, then we know where we stand , and if its not, then we have to take there word for it, I will go with fake, look at the flag, blowing like there is air or a breeze I don't think that's real ,

well I will vote, for flat earth , its just my opinion, for the reason that the moon landing was a fake, and no one is on the moon, and so if that is a fake, and done in the studios to fool the world , I will go with the opposite of what they say , so they say round , I say flat, ' now that is my view, lets talk about the sky , is it open , endless , or is there a crystal glass type ceiling , and we cannot get beyong it , and it will hit if we do send a rocket, it will bottom out, ? is the true or fake, ? I am trying to see what is real according to the Genesis story of God saying he separates with a firmament ? or dome, or cover, or what ever ? thank you ,

So was I wrong , did I give a wrong answer, did I miss the scripture for another meaning ? let me know, I was giving a general from what I believed and thought, but if I am , wrong, please let me know, I want to make sure if it is not correct, that I know so I can correct my self , thank you sister blessings

So here is my question, for those that cannot keep up with the long seminars from those big long stories, I just want to know, do you believe in a flat earth , and if there be a dome like cover over it, or a round world with a dome type over it, ? is there water above us , that is the blue sky ? or can we go from earth all the way to heaven with no ceiling, these are the basic type questions I am trying to find out, ,. so thank you and if any one knows , that be great blessings to you all