Leaderboard

Hi Golden Eagle, I so agree with you. If we let others control us then obviously Christ is not our Head, we have given that position & authority to a mere person. No wonder the Apostle Paul warned the Colossians, (& by the Holy Spirit - us) - ` Let NO ONE defraud you of your reward........& not holding fast to the Head,....` (Col. 2: 18 & 19) Marilyn.

Good For, brethren, ye have been called unto liberty; only use not liberty for an occasion to the flesh, but by love serve one another. For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this; Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. But if ye bite and devour one another, take heed that ye be not consumed one of another. This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfill the lust of the flesh. For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would. But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law. Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God. But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law. And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts. If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit. Let us not be desirous of vain glory, provoking one another, envying one another. Galatians 5:13-26 Stuff Put them in mind to be subject to principalities and powers, to obey magistrates, to be ready to every good work, To speak evil of no man, to be no brawlers, but gentle, shewing all meekness unto all men. For we ourselves also were sometimes foolish, disobedient, deceived, serving divers lusts and pleasures, living in malice and envy, hateful, and hating one another. But after that the kindness and love of God our Saviour toward man appeared, Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost; Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour; That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life. This is a faithful saying, and these things I will that thou affirm constantly, that they which have believed in God might be careful to maintain good works. These things are good and profitable unto men. But avoid foolish questions, and genealogies, and contentions, and strivings about the law; for they are unprofitable and vain. Titus 3:1-9 (King James Bible) Beloved Now flee from youthful lusts, and pursue righteousness, faith, love and peace, with those who call on the Lord from a pure heart. But refuse foolish and ignorant speculations, knowing that they produce quarrels. And the Lord’s bond-servant must not be quarrelsome, but be kind to all, able to teach, patient when wronged, with gentleness correcting those who are in opposition, if perhaps God may grant them repentance leading to the knowledge of the truth, and they may come to their senses and escape from the snare of the devil, having been held captive by him to do his will. 2 Timothy 2:22-26 ( New American Standard Bible 1977)

I think maybe we should ask ourselves....."Am I pushing buttons?....What is the Christian approach I should have on the forums?" Twelve Ways to Humble Yourself- Chismar 2009 Routinely confess your sin to God (Luke 18:9-14). All of us sin and fall short of the glory of God. However, too few of us have a routine practice of rigorous self-honesty examination. Weekly, even daily, review of our hearts and behaviors, coupled with confession to God, is an essential practice of humility. Acknowledge your sin to others (James 3:2, James 5:16). Humility before God is not complete unless there is also humility before man. A true test of our willingness to humble ourselves is willingness to share with others the weaknesses we confess to God. Wisdom, however, dictates that we do so with others that we trust. Take wrong patiently (1 Peter 3:8-17). When something is unjust we want to react and rectify it. However, patiently responding to the unjust accusations and actions of others demonstrates our strength of godly character and provides an opportunity to put on humility. Actively submit to authority…the good and the bad (1 Peter 2:18). Our culture does not value submission; rather it promotes individualism. How purposely and actively do you work on submission to those whom God has placed as authorities in your life? Doing so is a good way to humble yourself. Receive correction and feedback from others graciously (Proverbs 10:17, 12:1). In the Phoenix area, a local East valley pastor was noted for graciously receiving any negative feedback or correction offered. He would simply say “thank you for caring enough to share that with me, I will pray about it and get back to you.” Look for the kernel of truth in what people offer you, even if it comes from a dubious source. Always pray, “Lord, what are you trying to show me through this?” Accept a lowly place (Proverbs 25:6,7). If you find yourself wanting to sit at the head table, wanting others to recognize your contribution or become offended when others are honored or chosen, then pride is present. Purpose to support others being recognized, rather than you. Accept and look for the lowly place; it is the place of humility. Purposely associate with people of lower state than you (Luke 7:36-39). Jesus was derided by the Pharisees for socializing with the poor and those of lowly state. Our culture is very status conscious and people naturally want to socialize upward. Resist the temptation of being partial to those with status or wealth. Choose to serve others (Philippians 1:1, 2 Corinthians 4:5, Matthew 23:11). When we serve others, we are serving God’s purposes in their lives. Doing so reduces our focus on ourselves and builds the Kingdom of God. When serving another costs us nothing, we should question whether it is really servanthood. Be quick to forgive (Matthew 18: 21-35). Forgiveness is possibly one of the greatest acts of humility we can do. To forgive is to acknowledge a wrong that has been done us and also to further release our right of repayment for the wrong. Forgiveness is denial of self. Forgiveness is not insisting on our way and our justice. Cultivate a grateful heart (1 Thessalonians 5:18). The more we develop an attitude of gratitude for the gift of salvation and life He has given us, the more true our perspective of self. A grateful heart is a humble heart. Purpose to speak well of others (Ephesians 4:31-32). Saying negative things about others puts them “one down” and us “one up.” Speaking well of others edifies them and builds them up. Make sure, however, that what you say is not intended as flattery. Treat pride as a condition that always necessitates embracing the cross (Luke 9:23). It is our nature to be proud and it is God’s nature in us that brings humility. Committing to a lifestyle of daily dying to ourselves and living through Him is the foundation for true humility. God Bless..Hip

How to deal with it, is to follow mathew 5:18. And go to the person who is aggrevating you, and discuss it with them in private. That is the scriptural approach.

Well Anti-Semitism has been on the rise for a while, and is becoming more blatant in the USA and Europe than ever before. But Governor Christie of New Jersey just signed a bill (as have other state governors) which will prevent State pension funds from being invested in "boycott-Israel" companies. So many states (apart from the federal government) are declaring their solidarity with Israel. As to the "ideology" of the Jews, there are in fact several ideologies at work: 1. The secular state of Israel rejects the Messiah but supports LGBTQ. Their ideology is survival (which is fine) but they have no use for God and Christ. 2. Orthodox Jews reject secularism and wait for their Messiah. They try to be strictly Torah observant, but fail to acknowledge Christ. 3. Jews in the USA perhaps overwhelmingly support Obama and Hillary Clinton (66% support in Florida), in spite of their love for Radical Islam and Iran, and their hatred of Israel. This reflects blind liberalism and left-liberalism more than anything else. 4. Some Jews such as George Soros, the Rothschilds (and others of extreme wealth) are actually enemies of the Jews, and work for Satan against them in many ways. 5. Finally we have Messianic Jews, who are really brothers and sisters in Christ, but prefer to isolate themselves from Gentile Christians.

Shadows why are you so confrontational?

Hi Golden Eagle, Thank you for your thoughtful comments & interest in what I believe. I will answer 1 -3 now & then later 4 – 6. Hope you don`t mind as I`d like to give you a bit of background so you can understand where I am coming from. I realise & appreciate that you are trying to understand what I mean. I would have thought similar to you probably 10 years ago. I understand the view that the `Church` is made up of denominations & that anything outside that is a `parachurch,` or backslidden. (I was taught that). The view thinks that if someone doesn`t go to an organisational meeting then they are not in the Church. I probably had that view once. However, due to illness, I had to decide where I would spend my time & energy. Previously I used to do Sunday School, music, leadership & bible classes etc etc, but because of limited strength it made me focus. Thus I believe the Lord directed me to make disciples, mentor people in their homes etc, one on one mostly, ladies & sometimes couples with my hubby. I have done this over time & bit by bit for about 10 – 15 years. These disciples are now discipling others who actually are now discipling others – 3 generations of disciples & quite a big number if counted, (but not all in the one spot). The first generation people know of each other, but then their relationships do not know of the others. They are from a wide area across the valley & beyond. Most of them do not go to organisational meetings, that is their choice. It is not for me to say how they want to meet with others. So to your first comment. I will add my bit in bold. 1. The Body of Christ is made up of believers, some of whom attend various organizations... Some people in those organizations make up the Church. Take different Christian denominations for example. Baptists, Presbyterians, Methodists, Catholics, Orthodox, Assembly of God, etc. all have Believers & unbelievers who attend and participate in those organizations. Or do you believe differently? Once we start to use the word `church` we tend to get into a cultural idea – organisation, building, a person in charge with power over others, & a certain type of meeting. It has been ingrained or indoctrinated into us that the format we have today in a public meeting run by a religious organisation is THE CHURCH, & anything else is NOT. My view is that it is only ONE WAY for the Body of Christ to come together. Not sure if you realise it but all over the world there is a great move of people seeking OTHER WAYS to meet as the Body of Christ. Now to you second comment. Actually I see that it includes the part about the changes in the Church, the Body of Christ, so I will leave for when I make a comment on Q.4, (later)as it fits in there. Your third comment was very encouraging & actually is a snap shot of how we as the Body of Christ meet with each other here. I really do appreciate your kind words, thoughtful comments & willingness to ask about things different than how you see them at the moment. Marilyn.

by expressing what you believe is the truth and letting the Holy Spirit tell them they are wrong.... it's almost never productive to tell someone they are wrong.

Hi GoldenEagle, Thank you for getting back to me. Now that is a very good comment as many people also find it difficult to separate the two - organisation & Body of Christ. Here are some answers - 1. Christ is returning for the Body of Christ not the organisations. 2. The organisation, with the buildings, rules & regulations, the power structure that comes with that, are all of man, while the Body of Christ is a living organism of believers, by the Holy Spirit, across the world. 3. The authority of the organisation & the Body of Christ are quite different. For example - if you are in an organisation`s meeting you have to obey the leader`s rules & authority - for legal reasons. However if you met that leader down the street those rules would not apply to you, only in the building. When you have a legal organisation then that organisation owns the buildings, the furniture, controls the times of meetings & how they are run & what beliefs are taught. It is controlled by man & thus limited. However the Body of Christ can meet anywhere without being connected to the legal system of man. The leadership will be recognised by gifting & character & received whether in a gathering or down the street having a coffee. 4. The organisation beliefs, especially in error, will go through the whole organisation of perhaps millions of people. The Body of Christ however not connected to man`s organisation can have error but it will be confined to a small area as others don`t have to believe the error. Then also, when revelation comes, (clarification of truth) then this can easily flow through the Body of Christ by relationships & is not hindered by central control in an organisation which tries to maintain its beliefs & not receive further clarification by the Holy Spirit. 5. Also because the organisation owns property etc it then has to maintain these, update, enlarge etc & this funnels money into perishable areas where really it should be used to help those in need, etc. 6. Finally, & very importantly, we are now seeing that man`s organisations are joining with the world system & turning away from their basic belief in the Lord - Apostasy. regards, Marilyn.

Most of the pastors I have seen that rant against sin have personal struggles against sin and almost seem to be pointing the finger without first examining their own lives. Case in point was Jimmy Swaggert. I would immediately turn him off because it was not the Holy Spirit working. In the New Testament we see a lot of do nots, but rather do this. It points the way to how to overcome by repenting and then focusing on Christ and what He does want us to do. To me the best preaching teaches through a whole book of the Bible, stopping to cross reference and explain background and customs as well. So it covers the don'ts just as stated in the Bible but does not dwell there. It provides a balance of encouragement. 1Co 6:9 Or don’t you know that the unrighteous will not inherit God’s Kingdom? Don’t be deceived. Neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor male prostitutes, nor homosexuals, 1Co 6:10 nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor slanderers, nor extortionists, will inherit God’s Kingdom. 1Co 6:11 Such were some of you, but you were washed. But you were sanctified. But you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and in the Spirit of our God. 1Co 6:12 “All things are lawful for me,” but not all things are expedient. “All things are lawful for me,” but I will not be brought under the power of anything. This passage plainly teaches that those who practice evil and identify with it will not go to heaven. It also shows that we can be delivered from the grasp of evil. Christ sets us free. Too often preachers go on and on about evil without glorifying God and showing that He triumphs over it. They dwell on sin. When pastors stick to the scriptures they don't get sidetracked on their own opinions of "don'ts". They are not telling us to stop playing cards or listening to Tchaikovsky as I have heard in the past. This is where they get controlling. If the Bible doesn't say it is sin, I ignore the advice. Moreover, I won't stay in a church where a pastor adds to Scripture or is caught up in self righteous attitudes for abstaining from more things than I do. The pastors who are self righteous are doing a lot of harm. Those who come along side us and compassionately pray for us in our struggles are showing Christ's love. This is the Jesus who said, he who is without sin among you cast the first stone.

Hi GoldenEagle, I would first define the word, `church,` - the Body of Christ or the organisations. 1. `I realize that most of the issues the church, (Body of Christ) has created are based on its addiction to control...` To me that is not scriptural as the Lord, the Head of the Body is building & maturing His Body, as He said, & His Holy Spirit is leading us into all truth. 2. `I realize that most of the issues the church, (organisation) has created are based on its addiction to control...` This seems to me what the writer is saying, though he does confuse the two, (organisation & Body of Christ). The `church` organisation is a legal entity which tries to provide `Peace & Safety` through legal means for the public attending its meetings. These `church` organisations have to `control` if they are to be a legal institution. Some one, people (Board etc) has to be accountable for laws, & rules & regulations put in place by governments. eg, - Food preparation regulations, (organisational dinners etc) - Health & Safety regulations, (Buildings, access, fire prevention, etc) - Insurance regulations, - safe Churches regulations for the rights of the child, (protection from abuse etc) - etc, etc, etc People try & `fix` the organisations but actually, it is the organisations themselves that are the problem. Organisation - legal institution = CONTROL by man. Ekklesia (church) = a living organism guided by the Holy Spirit. Marilyn.

I think so many times today people feel they have to "defend" the truth, Gospel, Bible, or Jesus. I agree with the article it's often misplaced pride, fear, and desire for control. We can't control what others think, say, or do. That is essentially us wanting to take on the role of the Holy Spirit in other people's lives... Which is very dangerous indeed. It's about understanding where our boundaries start and end. If our lives would be compared to a house, we can only affect those things within our fences. When we try to go digging and molding other's houses is when complications, frustrations, and misunderstanding occur. Yet where does accountability come into the picture? I liked the quote from the article: “The truth is like a lion; you don’t have to defend it. Let it loose; it will defend itself.” Saint Augustine These are some initial thoughts on the article. God bless, GE

Thank you for this wise and Spirit filled post. We can't change anyone, nor are we called to do so. Nor are called to get angry when others do not do what we want. True there are times to confront, but with love and not out of repressed rage. To truly loved as Jesus calls us to takes a level of self knowledge. Using Scripture to control others usually backfires, for what is needed is to show others the love of Christ Jesus, to be gentle and respectful. Then, when they understand that what we say to them can be taken in because of the Spirit is is given. I believe the 'will to power' is our greatest temptation. Peace Mark

Do you think members on Worthy try to push other member's buttons? What is the best Christian approach to this?

I think you both are being confrontational, and bickering, neither of you are completely innocent, nor completely at fault. You are being confrontational here...she's getting personal and border line name calling... Of course, im not innocent here either, my last post, was a bit sarcastic, which just fuels the fire, and doesn't really help much. But, it is driving home a point, and that is, quite frankly, people do get on each other's nerves a lot, some people do need to put more grace in the way they speak, and some people need to learn to extend some, and in many cases, both. I can list several examples of people who have said something on here that got me all riled up, where I sent them a pm and said hey what's up with this" and they explained and we worked it out peaceably. Often it was just a combination of a failure to communicate and a failure to take time to fully understand. And being in private, things went smoother because that took away the stress of having to prove ones point. Of course, that doesn't always work, hasn't always worked for me in the past, but it has proven to have a higher success rate then "why do people do this?" Type posts.

I am being petty? Please explain what I did that was petty.

Hmmmm. I see this "post" about how to deal with "difficult" people has turned itself into pettiness on everyone's part.....ironic.

I very politely asked for further clarification. In what way was my response argumentative?

Ok I proved my point. Now you are argumentative about my answer.... I am done but I did prove a point.

You made a generic statement about me being "confrontational", to which I replied that I do not feel I am. If you could provide some actual examples it would be helpful. Would you be willing to expound on what you found about my post that was confrontational?

Ok Shadows I have confronted you just like you have asked. This is the usual answer I get. It is denial,prideful and haughty answers. So what is the point?

He's pushing buttons.

according to "The Antichrist and a Cup of Tea" Prince Charles of Wales (his official title) adds up to 666 in Hebrew, Greek or English... how odd is that.

I do not believe I am confrontational. What I am is direct, I say what I mean and I mean what I say. If someone is saying something I do believe to be false, I will call them on it and see if they can support their comments, just as I would hope they would do with me. Their is nothing gained by being indirect or even worse passive aggressive. Jesus tells us in Matthew 5 to "let our yes be yes and our no be no". And while He was speaking of oaths, I think it is a good general rule for all things in life. Do you find my example above about dealing with a fellow member of the forum to be confrontational?

I'm not trying to put something into the video that isn't there. It's a good video and I enjoyed it. I'm expanding on the subject.

Good point. Always go directly to the source. That is what the Bible teaches.

Not sure if it's intentional or people just have strong opinions at times, and it might come across that way. A Christian approach to this would be to perhaps ask what the person means by what they're stating to you, in a post. If after a reasonable response to the person, if you feel you're not getting anywhere, just taking a break from that topic or thread might help. I accept that everyone has different ways of debating and discussing, and that helps, too.

Ok, let's pretend I felt you were going out of your way to push my buttons just to annoy me. I would then wait for you to do it in a thread and then quote that post and ask you why you said what you did. I would tell you that I felt you were purposely trying to annoy me and ask you to please explain your actions. If you could not give me an adequate explanation I would ask you to stop doing it. If you did not stop I would then turn to the Mods of the forum and ask them to intervene.

Give me an example of how you would do this.

Why not deal directly with the person? Is that not what the Bible calls us to do?

No, this thread is how to deal with toxic people on a Christian message board. I disagree. I think this is a good way to ask other members how to deal with this kind of person.

This whole thread seems to be some "around the bush" way of letting someone know they were pushing your buttons. The point is, that this is not a good way to do such a thing.

Who is beating around the bush? What is your point?

Perhaps instead of assuming (we all know what that does) you should point it out when it is taking place. To be silent about it, or to start a thread like this, does not allow the other person to know that you feel they are purposely trying to push your buttons or what have you. I have found the direct approach to be the best, beating around the bush assuming the other person will take the hint does not work as well.

I would assume that would be correct.... they are doing it intentionally.

1. The word "some" should be inserted before "members". 2. Pushing buttons should be clarified. Does it mean deliberately aggravating someone? Here are some synonyms: Synonyms for aggravate verb annoy botherstar irritatestar provokestar bugstar bumstar dogstar exasperatestar gallstar getstar gratestar hackstar irkstar nagstar needlestar nettlestar peevestar pesterstar piquestar teasestar vexstar be atstar be on the back ofstar drive up the wallstar get on one's nervesstar get tostar give a hard timestar pick onstar wig The Christian approach is to focus on the issues (provide biblical feedback not personal opinions), and not the aggravating personalities who may show up from time to time.

If I am Jesus or not does not change if being unkind is a sin or not. If if it a sin for me to be unkind, then it would be a sin for everyone, inducing Jesus during his time as a human on this earth. Whether I am Jesus or not does not change this fact. So, the question remains, were those kind words by Jesus?

You used Jesus as an example of why being unkind is ok. My response made sense and fit the post I quoted.

Being unkind is not a sin.

I was not aware of that jade. I will delete it.

You realize that pink image has a link on it that is a really bad place. A new age consciousness type place. Is it really something to promote here?

Pride is dangerous. The Bible does not have a lot of good to say about it.

I think that ignoring them is a great idea if you can do it. Or a kind reply. Sometimes it get really frustrating working with negative.

Jesus never did have an "attitude" or was he unkind. Jesus never did sin.

When you say a "Christian" manner you are really saying in a "Christ like manner". I would put forth that at time even our Lord was what some might call confrontational. Go look at Matthew 23, Jesus was not really very polite at all. As for your question, that is up to each individual to decide. Some respond back in kind, some in a nicer manner, some walk away and some put that person on ignore.

It all depends on how a person calls another member out on what they said. A person becomes confrontational and another person gets angry and snaps back. That is how people end up on a vacation or being banned from a thread. How do we deal with these people who do not respond in a Christian manner?

I think a lot of what is called "pushing buttons" is people actually being called out on what they said and asked to support it. People are used to making comments and most people are too polite to make them explain or defend their positions. But a few of us are not