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  1. I'm done debating things on here. It leads to nowhere. In all the debates I have gotten into on here I have never convinced anyone that I am right and they are wrong. It has done nothing but cause strife and misunderstanding among us. So I am done with it. Or at less I am going to try to be. If I feel the need to say anything at all about a topic, I will state what I believe to be true. Then if needed state the reasons why I believe what it is I believe. I will try to answer questions ask of me as long as they are not in a judgmental attitude. Then that's it. You can either agree with what I say or disagree. I am not going to post 20 some post on the same topic trying to convince everyone that I am right. Thank You And God Bless.
    5 points
  2. You need to announce where your post originated..It was not in your own words and you mislead Kwik.. You need to speak from the Holy Spirit when denouncing some-one as a false teacher not from gossip and hearsay and rumours... Bearing False witness is serious before God...We are accountable for our words..
    3 points
  3. Just to add..I have never heard this man preach, so i have no idea about him.. Here is a 'link' that says T.D Jakes embraced the doctrine of the Trinity...http://www.christianitytoday.com/gleanings/2012/january/td-jakes-embraces-doctrine-of-trinity-moves-away-from.html If this is the case it does not bode well for those here that are calling this man a false teacher...It shows their "research" is completely onesided against this man... Be very careful people when pronouncing some-one as a false teacher..You may be bearing false witness, which is VERY SERIOUS...
    3 points
  4. I love to listen to T.D., that's just my opinion. He motivated me many days to keep fighting and not give up.
    3 points
  5. Really you have no ideal how hard it has been for me even in these past few hrs. I have started to post a reply then delete it, then try to post again then delete that as well. I guess we will see how long I can keep walking away. My guess is this is not something I am going to win at.
    3 points
  6. It's not a matter of not agreeing with women pastors it's a matter of not agreeing with the Bible
    3 points
  7. If you don't agree with women pastors then don't attend a church that has one.
    3 points
  8. God never mentioned abortion directly, but there are verses that mention God knitting us together in the womb and knowing us in an intimate way before we are born. Also, the times God has killed have been for justified reasons. Killing an innocent baby for no reason is not OK.
    2 points
  9. The only hope I have had for trump, and it is a distant one, but a hope nonetheless, is that he serially dismantles every single fesible piece of progressive policy that has been implemented over the past 80 years. That's all. I have no expectations at all of this happening, just a hope that it does. I have not expected political operatives to stop being political operatives, nor politicians to stop being politicians.
    2 points
  10. Thats very interesting Sister,I have attended a couple(only 2) of Pastor & Leaders Conventions held by TD Jakes where he actually addressed this very same thing & where he claims to Embrace the Trinity stating that he had moved away from the Oneness Pentacosts...that was,lets see?...I was very sick when I went (chemo) ,,,So it had to be 2012/2013 He made a public confession there and then I saw him at the Womans Conference (3rd t7ime in person)when he came to Florida,as I said"I heard nothing to lead me to believe he is a false teacher & nothing that opposed the Word of God" Other than that I have only heard sermons "edited"" for TV...I take those for what they are(edited) Now,this is a PERFECT example of w4hat is acceptable & thank you for sharing with us why you are suspect or what has given you cause to believe as YOU DO,,,,,,you said"This is why I believe TD Jakes to be a false teacher" and not "TD Jakes is a false teacher".... In doing so you now give the reader something to pay attention to,or truly research & if they really want to know,,,,,listen to him & hear what he says!!! Great stuff Sister........... You have not given a false testimony or bore false witness Praise jesus,perhaps this example will shed light on the subject With love-in Christ,Kwik
    2 points
  11. My husband might find you to be a kindred spirit. He tried joining worthy but lasted one day.
    2 points
  12. I would suggest that you just post your thoughts and let the readers decide for themselves if it's good or not. Debating really does seldom accomplish anything. Sometimes we do need to explain ourselves different if someone just doesn't understand. But if they disagree, so be it. Look at the Sabbath threads that get 4 to 5 hundred pages then someone gets tired of reading the same old rebuttals and start a new thread.
    2 points
  13. I am also opposed to abortion, but there are a few scenarios where I would not be strong and would need great help in making a decision. [1] If I had a 9 or 10 year old granddaughter and she is raped by her father or uncle or cousin and I find out about it either that day or even a week or two later, I am scooping that baby up and ya'll had better get out of my way because if it hasn't already been done, I am taking her to the emergency room to be flushed out - a D & C - if necessary. Pregnancy would not be on my mind, but her health, safety, and the elimination of any potential STD's would be what would motivate me. 8 and 9 year old girls are raped around the world with frequency and many of them have born children. [2] If I and her family did not find out about the rape until she were visibly pregnant, we would NOT nonchalantly nor piously say, "no abortion". This pregnancy would be a devastating thing and the child would need SERIOUS counseling and medical care throughout the entire pregnancy and beyond. Can you imagine a 9-year-old carrying her father's or uncle's child? It happens. Even a grown adult woman who is raped needs tremendous counseling if she decides to carry the baby and put it up for adoption. None of this is black and white. We must be against the killing of babies because it is barbaric and hideous, but we cannot be clinical about it or unconcerned about the mother and the circumstances in which she got pregnant. [3] If I or a friend or family member had an ectopic pregnancy [what we used to call a tubal pregnancy], I would hope that the doctors watched that very guardedly. I have a Christian ob/gyn who does not perform any surgeries anymore because he doesn't want to perform abortions. There are a lot of doctors out there like that. They have given up a lucrative part of their field because of their consciences. But I would hope that a doctor like this would be Christ-like and gentle when the time comes to decide whether the pregnancy is viable or not. Some ectopic pregnancies where the embryo unfortunately escapes the womb, but can get to abdominal organ and attached itself to a quality blood supply are viable and babies have been born that way. But most "tubal" pregnancies will cause eruptions of the Fallopian tubes and could cause life-threatening blood loss. In these cases, as I said, if the doctor were a believer and opposed abortion, I would cling to the LORD and to the counsel of the doctor and when the time came that that the pregnancy could not continue, the fetus would have to be removed with great sadness. [4] I would never waiver if there were something wrong with the baby that could either be corrected or a child could live a life with. Mental retardation, missing limbs, and such would never make me want to destroy an unborn child. God may take a child like that, but the doctor won't. But...... **warning - this last scenario is a little gruesome [5] I had a best friend once who worked for a great Christian man who was an ob/gyn and it was the joy of his life to deliver babies. One night when we were out and about, I noticed that she was very down. I asked her what was wrong. She said that a mother came in that day for an ultrasound and it was discovered that the baby had no head. There was a small stump of what could be considered the base of a brain, but no actual head. It was "normal" looking other than that. She said the whole staff was devastated and the doctor was the most devastated. I said, "What is he going to do?" She said, "I don't know". She did not enjoy the night and we went home early. I never asked what they decided. I do know that if I were the mother, I would very grievously make the decision - only after MANY more pictorial tests - for the doctor to terminate the pregnancy. We would have a memorial service and I would know that that baby was in heaven - whole and sound with a beautiful face. As I said, life is not so cut and dry nor as rigid as we think. We choose life, yes. And sometimes, in rare and painful occasions, a decision has to be made to give that life to God.
    2 points
  14. Actually that is not right. Paul was not speaking of himself but men in general. Men are the heads of women (if anyone is wondering here at this point, I am a woman). Women cannot teach men. Women can teach women and children and even help their husbands in some capacities but they otherwise cannot teach men or lead churches. And women were not running churches, but held position along with their husbands. As for that last part, that command against women speaking in churches applies to any culture where women were/are uneducated sat apart from the men, and without intending to be rude or disrespectful would often shout across to their husbands or girlfriends when they didn't understand something. I once read of a pastor's account of a church in Africa where that sometimes still happens. Paul's command against women speaking on churches was thus not demeaning women in any way but was a respectful admonition for them to ask their questions at a more appropriate time and place.
    2 points
  15. Blessings White Rabbit If anyone of us did not love MsMuffet then we would not be doing our very best to do whatever it takes that her heart be convicted,there is no condemnation,it is rebuke of the spirits of hearsay & rumor....indeed it is not flesh & blood we struggle with I understand you are new here & you don't know us very well but we are Gods Family(& so are you!!!)we have known each other for some years & we all do love one another and we MUST REASON together,there is no reason for anyone to judge another & base such claims without providing good cause to support such an accusation I have stated why I say MsMuffet is bearing false witness & she has not proven otherwise,she has not "witnessed" and cannot testify or even provide any grounds for her allegations except by offering us what someone ELSE has said......She has copy/pasted someones commentaries against "Word Faith" preachers.....Okay,what dis she hear TD Jakes teach that is not in accordance to Gods Word?Her defense is "Do not cast pearls before swine? She has offered nothing substantiating her accusations What must be understood is that "Yes',a false teacher should be exposed".....as someone else said,"Calling people a false teacher & exposing a false teacher is two different things" You are not responsible for any of this discussion,this has been going on for years and I for one cannot be of good conscience if I sat idly by to let it continue.....My Beloved Sister should repent & refrain from name calling......I can completely understand anyone who would be concerned or question the doctrines being taught by ANYONE & if they have reason for their suspicions that is also understandable because of all the "talk" all over the internet.......Still,those are strong & powerful words being thrown about when you have never heard a word from the mans mouth & don't know him from Adam and one will surely have to account for such judgements.....My concern is for my Sister,please don't misunderstand & be persuaded to think any other way,it is because we love her..... What would you think the unbeliever sees? They see one of those "crazy Christians" put up a sermon video,another says"Oh,that was good & thank you" & yet another one says"He is a false teacher"......They should not be persuaded NOT to hear Christ being preached but to hear it & look to the Word of God themselves to know what is Truth & what is not.....I cannot say I ever heard anything from TD Jakes that was in opposition of Gods Word and that is not to say that he never has,I can only say "I" never heard it.....That is what a witness is & in spite of what anyone else says or writes I cannot say it is true,so we simply do not accuse...... That is all this confrontation is about,it is not an arguement,it is not a debate,it is not even about whether or not TD Jakes is a man of God or a false teacher.....it is a rebuke,correction......prove it,what did he say to support your accusation & judgement MsMUffet With love-in Christ,Kwik
    2 points
  16. Nope! And that is another reason why I think it is pointless.
    2 points
  17. It is one thing to be silent and passive under suffering, and quite another to be conscious of its “needs be,” and (though at first it may be only in a very partial way) to derive such a real good and help from it, that instead of lamenting, one is owning to the Father His wisdom and thoughtfulness in putting one through such necessary discipline. Now this latter can never be reached but through exercise of soul. The trial one feels much ought to exercise one much before the Father. If I am assured that His love is as great as His power, and neither knows measure nor end, then must I not be exercised before Him as to why in His love He should allow me to be so afflicted? The very exercise engages and connects my soul with Him (Rom 8:17; 1 Pe 4:13—NC), and this nearness acquires for me help and instruction about many other things. The waiting of the soul upon God in the time of affliction, is requited with a growth and strength in the knowledge of the Father which tends to relieve one of the suffering that was the original cause of waiting on Him; and the soul once truly habituated to wait on the Father learns so to value it that it never again can do without it. Then it learns to say, “All my springs are in Thee.” The fact of the desolation which one feels here when a beloved one has been removed, and the hesitancy with which one refuses to submit to it, proves that the heart required the trial in order to discover to itself that it has rested and hoped in something outside of the Father. The exercise of the soul consequent on the affliction leads to that nearness and waiting on the Father which supplies what was before unknown. Most blessed when it has this, its true and intended effect. We must beware of being sentimental in divine things; I mean by sentimental, your thoughts of the Lord Jesus centering in yourself. The tendency is to make oneself the center of everything passing, how it pains or cheers oneself, ever musing on oneself as if one were the one solitary object for the sunshine or the cloud to rest on, watching every alternation as it falls on or visits oneself. A soul in the strength of the Lord Jesus regards everything as He would regard it, and therefore he regards it with reference to the Father, and not to man. This throws one out of self-centeredness into the wise and grand purpose of His present counsel and work. My interests and concerns fit in, in the great circle of His interests and concerns, and I see my own in connection and relation with all His. When affliction occurs I accept it as a call to me, and as an aid from Him to be more separated from myself—a check, a breaking off of some unknown or unperceived growth of the old man, and hence redounding to a deeper and fuller abiding altogether above in Him. If I am a hero to myself, or a martyr, I am sentimental. My thoughts are occupied about myself, and I look at and regard divine things as they suit my thinking about myself, and not as answering to what He is thinking of me. I am confining the Lord to myself instead of rising up and seeing myself lost in Him, and then following Him in all the greatness and blessedness of His work and ways down here. - J B Stoney Miles J Stanford devotional: http://www.abideabove.com/hungry-heart/
    2 points
  18. Sister....Praise Jesus,it is my pleasure to pray with you,for you and to support & encourage you to keep your eyes FIXED on Jesus.... I must say,as a horse trainer/equestrian for over half a century-I liked Zachs analogy,lol I can think of but 2 occasions in all my years when it was not the riders actions that caused the animal to respond as they did,nothing wrong with the horse In other words(not saying you have anything to do with your husbands issues)BUT that you can only WORK on YOU.....it will undoubtedly have an effect on the horses response(hubby,lol) You see,when a rider mounts a horse there is a right way & a wrong way to communicate but only if he(horse/hubby) has been broken& schooled the proper way................again,its not the horses fault how he has been programmed to react under saddle .......your husband has become a product of his environment & YOU have nothing to do with that,they are his issues.....you9 "put off" the old & became a New Creature in Christ Jesus,he has not(I'm not talking about Salvation) as a matter of fact a person could be Saved & yet they are not yet living SAVED(another Topic) Anyway,the strongest message we can send is the message we send by the way we live,lead by example.....I say it again for good measure,put God Above ALL......He is FIRST & FOREMOST and deeper your roots go into the Word,the closer you get in Relationship with Him the less everything & everyone around you will cause YOU to stumble and because YOU transform & change,so does everything else...it really does Trust God,He does work all things for the GOOD of those that love Him,according to the Purpose of His Calling With love-in Christ,Kwik
    2 points
  19. Why that is crystal clear, a woman must bear a child to be saved! . . . . . . . .
    2 points
  20. Okay don't then. No one is saying you have too.
    2 points
  21. People have different views on what the Bible says about this. Just like some people believe that the Bible says women can't wear paints or cut their hair. I think it comes to no good to argue about these things on here. So my solution is if you hold strongly to a certain believe and will not consider the possibility that you may be wrong in your believe, then don't attend a church that does not follow your believe. Just as I will not attend a church that won't let me wear paints.
    2 points
  22. This is exactly the kind of posts that make me want to go.
    2 points
  23. Why is this happening? 2 Timothy 4:3-4 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine, but according to their own desires, because they have itching ears, they will heap up for themselves teachers; 4 and they will turn their ears away from the truth, and be turned aside to fables. We are going to be seeing more and more of this.
    2 points
  24. No Rest For The Godly Yea, and all that will live godly in Christ Jesus shall suffer persecution. 2 Timothy 3:12 And For Those Who Love This Country Be of the same mind one toward another. Mind not high things, but condescend to men of low estate. Be not wise in your own conceits. Romans 12:16 As For The Press, I've See Nothing In Their News Condemning Envy thou not the oppressor, and choose none of his ways. Proverbs 3:31 The Thuggery Trump And This Nation Has Suffered Since He Started Campaigning Whosoever hateth his brother is a murderer: and ye know that no murderer hath eternal life abiding in him. 1 John 3:15 It Make Me Wonder If The U.S. Press Has Any Real Function Left In Them Wherefore putting away lying, speak every man truth with his neighbour: for we are members one of another. Ephesians 4:25 Except To Whip America Into A Constant State Of Anarchy The LORD trieth the righteous: but the wicked and him that loveth violence his soul hateth. Psalms 11:5 Destruction, Hatred, Murder, Rage And Mayhem Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God. Galatians 5:19-21 IMO But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law. And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts. Galatians 5:22-24
    2 points
  25. I have not asked you for hearsay or documentation written by anyone other than you,how is that an attack? You are here to defend YOUR position on this matter yet you refuse to speak...It bis a very simple question"What have YOU HEARD TD Jakes say to give say to give YOU good cause to accuse him of being a false teacher? The video is right here,what does he say that leads you to make the accusations you have made against him? You feel you are being attacked when you are asked what you have HEARD?THat is not an attack MsMuffet,it is a question.......it validates every thing I have said,you base your allegations on hearsay & rumor......if you refuse to listen to this person because of what someone else has said about him then your accusations are invalid...... You still have no idea whether or not I believe MrJakes is a false teacher or not,I've said nothing about the man & I won't,I simply have not heard enough from his mouth to my ears......God told you to come on WCF & accuse these men?Interesting...... You just don't get the entire message here MsMuffet,you can say "I heard this" or "so & so has stated this" or even say,"Im not really sure but I have reason to question" but you cannot say " So & So is a FALSE TEACHER without having heard with your own ears & saying what that person has said to support your accusation......it is simply unacceptable Have you heard me say"I follow the teachings of TD Jakes'? & yet you accused me of following false doctrine,do you see the error in assumption & false accusation?This is not attack MsMuffet,it is correction & reproof...because I care about you, you are my Sister in Christ
    2 points
  26. But what is your opinion? I too believe it is demons but what is your opinion?
    2 points
  27. Yes, any demon can pose as grandma or grandpa or Uncle Henry.
    2 points
  28. There are such things a familiar spirits; they are demons that pose as a close relative of the person to lure them away from the living God. They are to be renounced for the lies that they are.
    2 points
  29. SP, I'm a guy, I like simple and to the point lists, so please don't construe my lack of emotional words as not caring, I care, therefore - my list : ) 1) Your Husband is depressed 2) You cannot fix your Husband 3) Currently your Husband doesn't want to deal with conflict 4) Your Husband is avoiding stress 5) Your Husband is in the midst of a fierce internal battle 6) Your Husband is currently losing this battle 7) Many great and awesome Christian leaders have dealt with personal depression ---What you can do---- 1) Do not focus on your husband's shortcomings 2) Focus on maintaining a healthy relationship with God 3) Pray, Pray, Pray, even fast if you feel inclined 4) Do not give your Husband anything to push back against, no conflict, no stress 5) Be happy, joyful and positive yourself 6) Love your husband, encourage him with kind positive words, compliments and actions, hugs and kisses, ALWAYS, CONSTANTLY and CONSISTENTLY 7) If you need to vent do so, get rid of it rather than carrying it around, but vent to God and if need be to only ONE strong Christian woman mature enough to pray and support you while not gossiping. There is a saying among horse whisperers; "It's never the horses fault, its always your fault" the meaning being; the best way to fix a horse is to fix yourself. This doesn't necessarily mean you're the problem, what it means is you become introspective, taking personal responsibility for your actions/reactions and effect change in yourself creating the proper environment for the desired outcome.
    2 points
  30. Welcome Solomons Porch! -Firstly I would like to let you know that I'll be praying for you and your husband! It sounds like there have been quite a few years of these behaviours going on and I'm sorry -this is obviously difficult for you .... and your Spouse ! As a Christian, you are to -Love your husbanD maybe this means giving him that space --yes, he may be angry, or depressed ....but all you can do is --lay it Jesus' feet and love him through it .- As a woman, who knows her God, you can find peace and Joy by ...when You .come to Jesus and lay your marriage at his feet ...!! You -can still Love your husband, AND walk daily close to God !!!!-letting Him provide you the strength and motivation to honour your hubby .!!! I agree with the advice sister Kwik -gave you. To focus on God and seek Him first......over time "Your Light will Shine"..!!!!!!! and if you keep praying for your husband the Lord will speak to His heart ? .....and Turn his heart toward home (-and you) ---in between all this take time o nurture and pay attention to YOUR NEEDS -work life, social life, family life, spiritual life..... --keep it balanced -! Make friends and let other nurture you too!...... blessings sister !
    2 points
  31. Blessings SOLOMONS PORCH Welcome to Worthy,so you say you are a Christian & your husband"claims to be?" So I take it that you are not sure? I'm fa little confounded as to how you wouldn't know but in any event it seems there is a huge divide between the 2 of you.....I'm sorry for you & all I can do is point to Jesus,it is up to each of you to put God in the Center ,upfront & the Number ONE priority in each of your lives as well as TOGETHER,as one flesh....... THere is little you can do when a person has no desire to have a Relationship with God in Christ except pray for them & speak the Word of God to them but you have to have your own House in Order first I don't know anything about you except what you tell us,you said you are seeking God OVER THIS,so what you are seeking is His Hand to fix your husband &/or your circumstance,,,,,,seek HIM for yourself & then you can provoke your husband to jealousy & envy when in spite of the situation you have Peace,Joy & Comfort...you see?We lead by example,I imagine your husbands actions are bringing you down,it certainly sounds that way,you sound very frustrated & I'm sorry you have tolerated this for 11 years......counseling,meds & all that are all temporary fixes anyhow,,,,,Healing & Deliverance is true FREEDOM in Christ Jesus,your husband is in bondage and it won't release him by any means of this world.....ask Willa the DAy her hubby became a New Creature in Christ Jesus,she certainly knows much more than she has said,lol...... My Sister Willa is a Faithful woman mof God & never gave up on her marriage,God has always been FIRST in her life.......With love-in Christ,Kwik (praying for you Sister)
    2 points
  32. Thank You Willa......Believe me I am doing the things you just suggested. It's just very hard to keep going thru this and have been for 11 yrs. I agree it could be depression....but he is never depressed as long as everything is going the way "he" wants it to go. If it don't boom, anger, isolation, sleeps all the time. Im truly seeking God over this and won't stop. I just didn't know the extent of mens normal behavior verses, not normal. God Bless!!!
    2 points
  33. Also praying. My husband did that once when he was deeply depressed. He had cut off the ends of 4 fingers and was also in a lot of pain. He copes with pain by sleeping. He started feeling better when he found someone in worse condition than himself and reached out to that person. He was hurting so bad he couldn't risk more pain by opening up to even me. Men often express grief with anger. When he walked in the door I would tell him I loved him and he would yell What for? But it only lasted a few months. Still I know a little of the pain you are experiencing of rejection and confusion. It helped me to go for long walks or exercise and pour my heart out to God. He may need to see a medical doctor to sort it out, and even to take an antidepressant for a while.
    2 points
  34. Unless you've been keeping up with all the feel good, prosperity gospel and ecumenical church movements... The problem is probably much worse than most people realize. It seems that not only are many of the major denominations adopting and changing to 'another' Gospel... But are tickling people's ears for want they want on hear from the pulpit, to make them feel Christian on their terms, not God's. To fill the pews with people eager to hear another Gospel that God will not judge sin, is big money and making the clergy very rich and damning people to hell. Sad... Praise the Lord, I was very careful to select a Bible believing Church that preached the true Gospel when I moved down here. If you've ever watched many of those television sermons on TV Sunday mornings, not many preach hell fire and brimstone, prophesy or walking in life Christ like. It's all about giving to the ministry and you'll become more rich the more you give to them, and / or, a watered down version of scripture. These changes in the churches are happening faster than I can keep up with. Yep, wait and see, but I don't think the wait will be much longer in calendar terms.
    1 point
  35. Familiar spirits and also the spirits that once possessed the dead person.
    1 point
  36. they can start fork lifts and nearly run you over too.
    1 point
  37. Hi Matrix, May I be so bold as to say that I DO NOT trust independent churches. Tell me where you think I'm wrong: A mainline church, to me, is a church that has a hierarchy - there is help for it; both in physical and financial ways. Human help can be sent when necessary, for whatever reason, financial help could be sent if funds should run out and there's a serious problem. There's a history to the church, there are most probably theologians involved with setting the doctrinal beliefs. In an independet church, we have a person who decided to set it up to fit what HE agrees is correct in the bible. I have a church like this near me and it's more like a cult - at least that's how I feel about it. Mainline is a big church: Catholic, Lutheran, Methodist, Nazarene, Assembly of God, etc. Regarding being the pillar of truth. I already commented on this and hate to repeat but any church that teaches salvation in Christ is a pillar of truth. When we say a person is a pillar of the community, we're not saying the PERSON is the community, he is what is holding UP the community. The churuch IS the pillar of truth. GOD IS THE TRUTH. THE CHURCH IS THE PILLAR OF TRUTH. It holds UP the truth. It's not wrong to say that a church is the pillar of truth. It is the SUPPORTER of the truth. Fran
    1 point
  38. Amen. OK. The church is the pillar of the truth - IT is not the truth. Fran
    1 point
  39. God is the truth. The church should act in truth.
    1 point
  40. OK. 1 Timothy 3:15 Is it saying that God is he truth or that the church is the truth?
    1 point
  41. "You and I" cannot decide who's right and who's wrong. It takes the church to do that. Someone in authority must decide for us. We're not theologians. We may disagree with a doctrine - we cannot agree on all of them - but it's not ups to us to make the doctrine. Take 1 Timothy 3:15 for intance. This was being discussed before. It requires a lot f knowledge to discern a verse in the bible. Some are simple, and some are not so simple. As evidenced here on this thread, two different person had two differet ideas. As you've pointed out - how could we know who is correct. How?? Fran
    1 point
  42. Hi Jeff, what happens if you and I do not see Scripture the same way. Who's right and who's wrong in that case?
    1 point
  43. This is exactly true, and it is exactly proof that the rcc is not the church in any sense of the word in SCRIPTURE. (since it does not uphold the truth, truth being Y'SHUA (JESUS HIMSELF) and YHWH'S WORD (SCRIPTURE). You are certainly aware that the rcc overthrows YHWH'S WORD every day with their traditions - simply and directly the traditions that are opposed to Y'SHUA and contrary to YHWH'S WORD. Similar to those who Y'SHUA condemned IN THE NEW TESTAMENT GOSPELS, directly, HIMSELF, because they put the traditions over YHWH'S WORD. IN the lives of ecclesia (the people who are born again) you can observe the truth lived out as they live as Y'SHUA SAYS TO LIVE. You won't find this in rcc or many other buildings/ groups/ organizations. SO, then what ? TEST EVERYTHING. As it is written in THE BIBLE - there are many false teachers and false prophets among us - even many anti-Christs - so all things , every word, every message, every sermon, is TO BE TESTED BY YHWH'S WORD, in prayer, and nothing from YHWH (THE CREATOR) in Y'SHUA will ever contradict HIS WORD, ever. (most sermons and messages and lives do not pass this test, btw)
    1 point
  44. Hi Hoddie, I'm new here and not sure what's going on! However, I did look up 1 Timothy 3:15 -- If I may, It says that the church (the NASB uses a small case C as does YLT) is the PILLAR of the truth. It upholds the truth. God is the truth, not the church - but the church upholds this truth, within it we can find the truth. As to marriage, I just came on board, but there are some cases where a divorced person MAY remarry. I fall back here to my Catholic doctrine which explains this better than does Protestant doctrine - although I do consider myself to be protestant. Fran
    1 point
  45. I completely agree-- the primitive church of 4 and 5 AD over time morphed into the monstrosity that is today the RCC. no similarity at all- the old church built on scripture and martyrs blood clearly is not the "church" today that holds its followers in bondage and fear of Gods Wrath if they do not pursue all the empty sacramental acts and follow dogma established by man not God.
    1 point
  46. No you have not! What you (and plenty of other non-Catholics) have been doing is side-stepping or completely ignoring the questions. So let me put it to you by using a quote from my fellow Catholic 'Real Presence'. "Tell me - in your own words and not by links - WHERE the Protestant Canon of Scripture came from if it was NOT from the Catholic Church. WHEN was it declared? WHO declared it? WHO had the Authority to do so?" I am hoping Matrix you have the courage to break away from your fellow non-Catholic sects and answer these questions honestly. Wait a minute here Matrix! You are saying that in 1Tim.3:15 it says 'God' is the pillar and foundation of truth? Hmmm.... this is interisting because back on page six of this thread you said. "First of all, I use the AKJV Bible", remember? If you do not remember, I sure do. Well, I just so happened to actually look up what the AKJV bible says in 1Tim.3:15, and Lo and Behold it say's ..." But if I tarry long, that you may know how you ought to behave yourself in the house of God, which is the "CHURCH" of the living God, the pillar and ground of the truth." Did you see that??? The Church! If you don't beleive me Matrix, look it up for yourself. Now, I would like to extend this to my other non-Catholic brothers and sisters. Do you agree with Matrix that it say's in 1Tim.3:15 that "God" is the Pillar and foundation of truth, or that it say's the "Church" is the Pillar and Foundation of truth? Now it would seem to the average Christian Matrix, what you are doing here is 'adding' to Gods Word by claiming something thats not in the bible.. With this being said Matrix, and me proving that this is not what Scripture say's, would you care to retract your statement? Matrix, just because you added an arrow between God and the pillar dosen't make it so. Reminds me of Martin Luther, Sorry.   Peace
    1 point
  47. Regarding remarriage of divorced Christians THAT is not in the bible, just because some bible alone churches believe in it, that doesn't mean that it is in the bible, it is because men are fallible, men are not God so even the best churches will make mistakes once in a while. Will you please pay attention to what I am saying? I feel like I am talking to a brick wall here. The Roman CAtholic church got carried away by strange teachings since before the 4th century
    1 point
  48. I have given you the proof when I keep quoting to you ALL SCRIPTURE is given under inspiration of God. Its very telling and easily understandable why that passage doesn't include anything beside scripture. You cant read into it what isn't there. GOD is the pillar and foundation of truth 1 Tim 3:15. You are misreading the passage. Give glory to God alone not men! Stop giving glory to men, glory that belongs to God alone. 3:15 But if I tarry long, that thou mayest know how thou oughtest to behave thyself in the house of God, which is the church of the living God, <--- the pillar and ground of the truth.
    1 point
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