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You all know what I have been sharing here for a while now. It has been met with “mixed” reviews, lol. Some have been curious, Many graceful. Some antagonistic and a few belittling. That is to be expected. I have tried and will continue to try to answer any genuine questions people have to fully understand what is being said. But one of the greatest evidences, at least in my particular case, that something was missing in our understanding of walking with the Lord was simply what I saw as I looked over the church as a whole. In the book of Acts, the church was a dynamo of life and purity. Think about it. They had little money, and lots of poor saints needing help. Their money did not go for exhorbatant pastor CEO sallies and perks, or new building programs or slick printed pamphlets. Their church buildings were people’s houses. They had no radio, no internet, noraccess to television to spread the gospel. It was word of mouth. And the gospel spread like wildfire. There was a cost to be a follower of Jesus. For many, they lost their family, their jobs, their social connections, and became outcasts. As the persecution grew, the cost was even higher.... their lives and those of their families as well. Yet, they willingly accepted this. They not only maintained, they thrived! Holiness was the expectation, and yet, somehow, they walked in it... and loved it! Look at Ananias and Saphira. If that level of holiness and honesty was enforced today, where would we be? It would take buses to haul away the dead bodies after a church service, amen? Love was palpable.... and observable. We are told that if we see a brother in need, and tell them we will pray for them , but do nothing to help them if we have the means to do so, how dwells the love of God in us? Ouch. But you see, they actually DID it! The love flowing between them was so great that men would exclaim “Look at the love they have one for another!” I do not want to paint this picture of the early church without also agreeing that they had their problems. The Bible gives specific examples to us, and corrective actions that needed to be taken. There were no itching ears. A standard was held up to all, and for the vast majority, they walked what they talked. And the result? In one generation, those 120 men filled with the Holy Spirit evangelized the known world. You see, when men and women are full of the Lord, with joy unspeakable, with unfeigned love of the brethren, with prayers that went up and came back answered, with miracles testifying to doubters that their god was indeed THE God, the truth of Jesus spread like wildfire across the world. The early rain brought forth a mighty harvest. But signs pointed to something declining. Paul wrote that the Lord had shown him that after his death, grievous wolves would enter into the church, not sparing the flock. Jude wrote and exhorted the believers to earnestly contend for the faith that was once delivered unto the saints. Could God not have simply pulled another “Ananias and Sephira” to awaken the church again? Of course. God is God. But that was not His plan. The long dry summer approached.... nineteen hundred years worth and God was in it. In 1986, the Lord gave me my first word. It was a seven page treaties entitled “Repentance-Only Hope For a Sleeping Bride”. I clearly saw the degeneration of the gospel and the church and the lukewarm walks of believers that sprang forth from it. Something was amisss. Badly amiss. But I had no clue what the answer was. And so, from that time until early 2007, I walked on, wrestling with my own sins, my anger at a blinded church, my out of control porn habit, and tried my best to keep my head above water and not go back to the world. What I did not do, for whatever reason, was to lower the standard that I saw so clearly in the book of Acts. And what was that standard? Without holiness, no man shall see the Lord. Let all who name the name of the Lord depart from iniquity. If we sin willingly after having received the knowledge of the truth, there remains no more sacrifice for sins, but a certain fearful looking for of judgment. Blessed are the pure in heart, for they shall see God. I resisted the tendency so prevelant in the church to stretch grace to mean something totally different. Grace was to teach us the HOW of holiness, not to make the God of Ananias and Saphira change His character to the God who winks at our sins, even the ones we have not repented of. This decline has continued to this day. There is almost never heard messages of warning, or correction. That is being ‘sin conscious’. Rebuke? That is judging. Instruction in righteousness? No one is perfect. Do you see a pattern here? This is the erosion of truth of which I speak. We have become the blind leading the blind and if we continue, we are ditch bound. Now, because I refused to lower the standard, and refused to hide behind grace to make my sins not so bad, the result made me of all men most miserable. I walked that way for over 20 years, until 2007. It was then that I broke. I had tried everything I could possibly think of, I was still a failure..... impure, unholy, fruitless, and a hard judgmental legalist. If I was going to have to serve a hard God, by gosh, so was everyone else! Needless to say, I was not voted Mr. Popular. LOL. But when God spoke to me that amazing night over eleven years ago, the missing piece to the puzzle fell into place and the picture became complete and I was given an understanding of God’s overall plan for His church. The early rain caused the church to explode in love. Life..... God’s life.... flowed through His children, from the least to the greatest, and in that order. But there was a long dry summer to endure with just enough mercy drops of truth to keep it alive... barely. That brings us to today, this very minute in time. And what do we find? The church is now composed of 500+ denominations, bickering and disagreeing over important things like whether instruments should be used in worship, or whether it is Saturday or Sunday that we should worship. We fight incessantly over whether the rapture will be pre-trib, mid-tribe or post-trib, and belittle any stupid enough to not see our enlightened reasoning. Salvation.... is it by faith or faith plus works? Are we predestined or do we have free will? Can you go to Heaven without being baptized in water? Is tongues needed for being filled with the Spirit. And God weeps. And in all this, we never look back at the early saints and wonder what they had that we are so very plainly missing. We march on, Sunday service after Sunday service, lap after lap around Sinai. Yes we have escaped Egypt. Yes, He is our savior. Yes, we have been healed.... but only slightly. We talk of the peace we have but if we are honest, we know nothing of real peace. And guess what. The world sees what we can not, or do not want to see. We may have understanding of the truth that Jesus died for our sins but as to walking in newness of life? Sorry, we are failing.... and miserably. Can you blame the world for not knocking our doors down wanting what we have? Do people come up to us asking why we are so joyful even when things go bad? Is it not time for honesty, real brutal honesty, before our God? Our sins, big or small, have hardened our hearts to such an extent rhat we too need to earnestly content for the faith that was once delivered unto the saints. The question is..... will we? We are now entering the final phase of God’s Plan for His Church. We think everything is set for His return. He is going to rapture us outta here and then burn these wicked people, right? We are wrong. Our hearts are far more like the sons of thunder asking Jesus if He wanted them to call down fire upon them. But you see, one major puzzle piece is missing. The bride is woefully unprepared to meet her bridegroom. Although we do not want to admit it, grace as we know it is in no way covering our blemishes. We are worldly, passionless, lukewarm, lacking agape love for one another and with hearts not even close to being fully surrendered to our Father. We are ready to be raptured... in our minds, at least. But if we saw what Jesus sees, we would be praying that He hold off on His return just a bit. We think somehow the Lord sees us through His pink “grace” glasses and none of our sins or heart thoughts are noticeable. Funny, but the Laodecians were seen for exactly what they were... lukewarm, passionless, and content without a modicum of godliness. Guess what? They are us, but how hard it is for us to fess up to it. So what does the future hold for the church? Will the church be born in power and love and selflessness only to limp to the finish line with the standard of what God wants for us so watered down that the world does not fear us, nor are they amazed by us. They simply ignore us and mock our hypocrisy and see us as a non-factor in navigating life. As we have lived out our faith up til now, do we honesty think that we will hear “Well done, thou good and faithful servant?” The early saints walked in victory over the world, the flesh and the devil. And guess what? They were”only human” too. But they walked as new creatures, and loved not their lives unto death. So as you read these words that I share on WCF with any and all who will listen, I pray you re-examine your lives and judge righteous judgment, even if it condemns the ground you walk on. We are told that we will seek Him and we will find Him, when we seek Him with our whole hearts. The question is.... can we admit that we need for more than we presently have. God is in the process of awakening us for the latter rain. He loves us, just as He loved the Laodecian Church. He asks that we break, and repent. He urges us to finally admit our lukewarmness, and that we have lowered the standard so that we will not have to deal with our guilt and the conviction of the Holy Spirit. The church... OUR church..... is not going to go out a rag-tag defeated 500+ denominational schism-filled religious organization, devoid of life. Not by a long shot. We will all be awakened, wheat and tares alike. The coming shaking will expose our foundations, not to humiliate us, but to allow us to fully repent. And when we finally come to the point that we hate our old carnal nature, hate our lukewarm hearts, hate our love for the things of the world that are about to be dissolved, God will open our eyes to what He actually accomplished when He died and was resurrected. He brought us up with Him so that we could walk in life as new creatures.... Christ IN US! What is still to come will blow our minds and only the hardest of hearts, those of the tares, will fight against it. We as His bride are going to have a chance to light our lamps, to come finally into agreement with our God, that we too were resurrected to walk in newness of life. The early rain was wonderful. But listen and I pray you believe it. God has told us that the latter rain will be moreso! Picture the early church...on steroids! Glory to God. And the result? A worldwide harvest. God told us through Ezekiel that the heathen would finally know that He is the Lord, when He shall be sanctified IN US before their very eyes! He tells us that He will actually cause us to walk in true obedience. Do we not need that? Do we not want that? That time is here, and available right now, this very day. He ends this amazing Word, found in Ezekiel 36, by telling us that He will yet be enquired of to do this for us. We can rest content right where we are running spiritual laps in the wilderness of unbelief...... or we can open our mouths wide so that He might fill it. Shall we remain content with our, for the most part, lifeless, lukewarm Christianity, with tattered shreds of truth and a whole lot of our carnal fleshly natures mixed in? Shall we be satisfied with hearts that are passionless, while millions, nay, billions, have never truly seen the glory of God revealed IN US, and are facing an eternity of blackness and sorrow because they need what we have, but have hidden under our religious bushel baskets? I pray you re-consider. The church WILL be awakened and walk in the light in the last days, because they will finally believe that they ARE light, with no part dark. But a word of warning is needed here and I hope you give ear to it. We are told that before the master returns, the call will go forth to His own. But amazingly, many that are called by His name will begin to, with one accord, make excuse as to why they cannot come right then. The world will have captivated them just as it did Lot’s wife. When the master hears this, He is angry. Jesus, angry? Yes. And He will take away that which He freely gave them and instruct His servants to go to the highways and byways and to COMPEL those who know they need a great physician to come in, for His House WILL BE FULL. And this is why I am sharing as I do here. I am compelling you to listen to the good news of your death and resurrection. To those who receive it, He gives the power to endure to the end. He offers you victory over the world, the flesh and the devil. He gives you joy unspeakable and full of glory. He gives you oneness with Him and praise God, oneness with one another. Do you want that? Does your heart yearn for such a thing inside you? I can share all the scriptural arguments I can to try to convince you that what God has asked me to share is the truth... truth that will set you free indeed. But the bottom line is this. Does your heart cry out for it? Will you settle for a false contentment without godliness, or go will you fall on your knees and tell your God “Not my will be done, any longer. I want, I NEED, your will in me Lord. Not my life in me any longer Lord. Your life in me, causing me to become your true servant and your child.” This is the valley of decisions are now entering. . It will face each one of us. You may choose not to believe what God has given me and others to share right now. That is your choice. There will be another day, you are right. But know this, one day, the doors will opened and those prepared for the wedding will go in, and the doors will then be closed... forever. Amd those unprepared and unwilling to truly hate their carnal self loving nature, who would not have Jesus to reign over them in love, will finally understand that the bottom line of our Christian walk is that it is when we lose our life that we truly find it. Blessings to all, Gideon A plea toc

I think that it is about showing people one of two things. The first is that God has indeed changed our lives and we are different because of that. The second is that God is indeed real and is reaching out to them. Many testimonies I've heard over the years contain one or both of these elements. They saw someone whose life was truly different, or they saw something miraculous that opened their eyes that God is indeed there and loves them. People who've heard and rejected the gospel (often for years) have been affected by seeing real Christian lives and God doing real things. That neighbor or family member or coworker whose life was consistently different over months and years often has a big impact on people. Then, those times we pray for someone, or God does something out of the ordinary in someone's life will make them aware that He is indeed there. I've of course heard some testimonies where the starting point was preaching or evangelism, but the starting point in many is what they've seen with their own eyes.

Let's approach it using your own (crude but effective) analogy: "How do we fish for men when too many Christians have already peed in the pond?" I think the answer is to create a new pond, with water that is as clean and clear as possible. Water, btw, is often symbolic of the word, which is supposed to run clear and clean from the throne of God Himself, like the river of life. So the answer would seem to be in praying that you can help develop a church where the water is pure and fresh, and where the Spirit of God is in full manifestation such that the fruit of the Spirit and His gifts are blatantly evident to all. Would this be an easy thing to do? No. But it seems you are essentially answering your own question from the start: You have to create a new pond; one that is so different by comparison that they will know by seeing it only once that there is something entirely different about it, and that the first pond was actually just a filthy counterfeit of the type of atmosphere the Spirit of God Himself creates.

Many people who grew up in church but now hate Christians were more than likely hurt by those very people.....(myself included)...so the best way to evangelize to them is to be consistent in showing the Love of Christ,, the fruits of the Spirit to them, to overcome them by the words of your testimony....to speak Truth with compassion.....to see them through His eyes...to not have any biased or judgmental preconceived ideas towards them...to share God's Word in faith believing that it will not return to Him void but accomplish that which it was sent to do. After many horrible and negative experiences with church members (namely pastors...i.e. one even came to my apartment wanting to have sex)....I cried out to Jesus and said why are these pastors and elders of the church so hurtful? Do I have a sign on my forehead that says persecute me? That was when Jesus said do not put your faith in man but Keep your eyes (focus) on me for I will never fail you.....that was when I learned that just because someone is a pastor or has a position in the church doesn't make them above temptation....in fact they are more prone to temptation as a device from the enemy to cause them to stumble....when a pastor errs he causes a great deal more damage to God's sheep than others do. What others say about you is not what His Word says about you....I remind people in my life that I do not base my sense of worth off of what other's think about me but what my Father says about me.....and my Father says I am the apple of his eye, I am wonderfully and beautifully created, I am His child and He is a jealous Father and will not let anyone snatch me out of His hand.....I am called for His purpose and Glory not theirs. People who come against you with words of condemnation are being used of the enemy to cause your faith to weaken.....put on your armor....guard your heart....and when these people come along just smile and let His Love shine through you....be not conformed to this world but be transformed by the renewing of your mind..... God Bless

Getting back to the original question, I looked into tracts from various sources a couple years ago. Most seem to be negative and of the format "You're evil, attend church and get Jesus or you'll pay". Not a great image to present people new to church. A few tracts are positive and try asking questions about people's lives and get them to ask themselves questions about their beliefs. Those seem to have a much better chance of planting a seed with someone to investigate Christianity. After hearing mostly about tracts making bad impressions, I stopped using them and instead try to be a good example that lead normal conversations with people to ask questions on their own.

Hello my brothers and sisters in the Lord, Most people don't realize the radical experiment we are doing here! I want you to imagine yourself -- hundreds of years ago -- when all the different denominations were starting! While everyone was insisting their beliefs were the "only" correct way to worship God -- they were creating more and more splits and divisions! What we are trying to do at Worthy Boards is unheard of when you think about it! We are trying to unify the body -- while at the same time protect those fundamental truths that we can all agree with -- the need for salvation through Jesus -- the source of truth for living the Christian life found within the Bible. Read our Statement of faith! This experiment hasn't happened before when you really consider it! Of course, there's the ecumenical movement -- unity for the sake of doctrinal compromises! I'm sorry, but the fundamental doctrines of the faith can't be compromised. So often though when you have so many different denominations, you have many different avenues of thought that have never been explored by other denominations. Just because a teaching is "different" than one you are used to hearing, doesn't necessarily mean it's wrong -- it may be just different! But differences of opinion is actually a good thing whether you realize it or not! For God didn't create us to be the SAME body part -- but created us all different so that we could join together to form the body of Christ to complement each other! Oftentimes I learn by realizing other avenues of thinking presented by various believers. By allowing various avenues of thoughts we expand our horizons and allow the Spirit of God to realign our thoughts with the mind of Christ and continue our growth in the maturity of the Lord. So before you run out and cry "heretic" or "false teacher", be sure to carefully listen, and observe what someone is saying. I honestly believe that things "heard through the grapevine" have a way of being twisted -- but if you go to the source then you can carefully examine the fruit -- test the fruit -- and then make a judgment -- often times you may find that the red grape you were expecting to find was just a white grape -- it was just a different color, but when you examined the fruit -- you find out its still good fruit! We need to recognize that every word spoken, we will be judged for. And everyone that is hindered from hearing the gospel because someone feels the need to scream - heretic, false prophet, or demeaning someone in some fashion -- let's just say I wouldn't want to be that person sitting before the Lord at the Bema Seat! This is a problem that I do have and I want to voice my concerns now and I hope you carefully heed these words. When someone comes into the boards, who is not necessarily a Christian -- the first thing you should do is NOT castigate them. The first thing you should do before you even post -- what would Jesus do? Did Jesus say -- get away from me you prostitute? or get away from me you heathen? or say give me the first stone because I am without sin? Jesus didn't go closing doors, He went forth OPENING the DOOR so ALL could enter in! This was the Lord's prayer to the Father before He was crucified! That we may all be ONE! My wife and I don't agree on everything -- but when we disagree -- we agree to disagree! Sometimes it's best to say -- I agree to disagree! Love breaks down walls of division and covers a multitude of sins! So may the Love of God be abundant in your hearts so that the world can be radically changed through you! May the love of God be shown in all of your posts! Your brother in Christ with much agape love, George

FOREKNOWING CHRIST (Job - Song of Sol.) Here we come to the books of poetry and wisdom - Job, Psalms, Proverbs, Ecclesiastics and Song of Solomon. These books tell of the experiences of the heart. Trials and suffering are not always for our punishment but sometimes for our education and training. Here we see there is a knowledge of Christ beforehand. Christ is foreknown in Redemption, Mediation & Salvation. He is known to be the Saviour, the Shepherd, & the Sovereign Lord. The book of Job deals with one of the oldest problems - `Why do godly people suffer?` The drama of job offers a solution to these problems. Job was being honoured by God. It was the truth that God could trust Job to remain faithful in spite of everything. Job declares, `For I know that my redeemer liveth` (Job 19:25) The book of Psalms is the best loved book of the Old Testament. Psalms means book of praises. It contains 150 poems to be set to music for worship. They magnify and praise the Lord, exalt His attributes, His names, His word, and His goodness. Every human experience is related to Him - joy, sorrow, victory and failure. David writes, `The Lord is my shepherd.` (Ps. 23: 1) The Proverbs are for everyday life - business, home and relaxing. We find there that godliness is practical. Every relationship is mentioned - duty to God, our neighbors, duty of parents and children, and our obligations in community. Solomon writes, `I, wisdom,.... the Lord possessed me at the beginning..`(Prov. 8: 12 & 22) The book of Ecclesiastes are not God`s philosophy of life but man`s. It contains the meditations of the wise man, Solomon. However we know that he did not follow his own wisdom. The Song of Solomon is a song of love in marriage in oriental language and imagery. The persons are Solomon and the Shulamite maid and the daughters of Jerusalem. The idea of the love of husband and wife sets forth the love between Jehovah and His people, Israel. `His banner over me is love.` (S. of Sol. 2 :4)

I will always be honest. In our current set up, we are starving and the shepherds either are unaware or do not care. We are like the dry bones of Ezekiel 37. We have shape. We have a form of godliness. But we lack one thing. Life. And one day those words “Live, bones, live” will be uttered and the paradigm shift will occur. Eyes will be opened to what we always have possessed but have never put on due to our unbelief. Our new natures. And when that happens, the religious system of denominations, that have served a purpose in keeping the church alive, will be left behind so that Jesus can be all in all to ....All true sheep. Gideon

When I was a kid, there was a spot of drama in the church over our preacher. He had made a mistake about 15 years prior and the congregation was voting to have him replaced... Except my own family. We liked the pastor and my parents reasoned that everyone makes mistakes. Thus, we were invited to never return. To this day, my parents haven't been to another church. It has taken me quite some time to come back around to Christianity, as with that time, I came to realize that there's a difference between the word and the people. We all fall short, and I know I certainly can't claim to be perfect. The most you can do is just lay it down on the table and see what they do with it. You can open doors, but if they aren't willing to cross that threshold, there isn't much that can be done.

Hello my Brother. You would agree that there is nothing we can do that will improve upon The Blood of Jesus's ability to redeem us ? ? ? Thats all im really saying. It really all boils down to giving full credit to God through Christ alone for our Salvation, knowing that we of ourselves can't redeem ourselves, and because we know this, we rejoice in the GRACE that God has provided for us for free, so that we are able to be accepted by Him, by Faith. There is even a lot of confusion amongst Believers about Faith, and the actual part it has to play in our eternal redemption. The fact is, we are not saved by Faith, we are saved by God, THROUGH Faith., and this is why, "holding unto your faith" is just as useless to keep you saved, as holding onto your lawnmower, or holding unto your laundry. The fact is, the truth is....God holds unto US, once He has accepted our faith to thereby give us His "gift of Righteousness", which allows Him to accept us, and KEEP US. God accepts our faith to redeem us....through..... then we are kept redeemed by the sacrifice on the Cross that made it possible for Him to give us the Righteousness that He accepts on our behalf , for eternity, in the first place. All of this is GRACE.....and that is why a real believer who has received the Light of the Revelation of the Atonement, undertstands we are saved by Grace and Kept by Grace......as Salvation is God's Amazing Grace, eternally given for FREE. The Legalist, absolutely cant comprehend that if God can't accept you based on your work before He saved you based on your faith,.... then How can they then believe He will continue to accept you based on your works after you are SAVED? = (face palm). They have a crazy Logic, circular, which is to say, they are deceived within their own heretical ideas that entirely omit the Blood of Christ's ability to do what it was given for FREE to do for the "world'.. Saten is the other one who does not understand "grace" or the reason for the Cross, as if He did, He would not have been deeply involved with Slaying the very one who IS Redemption, because OF the Cross. So... It is """ GOD who began the work of Salvation within you, and HE will be faithful to COMPLETE IT """...... as it is His Salvation, that HE devised and implemented, that He is completing on your behalf. Philippians 1:6 Salvation is NONE OF YOU<..... It is entirely ALL OF GOD's Provision, through Christ ALONE. You then are expected to behave accordingly, which is your discipleship., while understanding that discipleship can't save you to begin with, and can't keep you saved, as it has no power to forgive your sin or create you to be born again. A Legalist, who is trying to save themselves, can't grasp this, and will not try, as that is the effect of self righteousness, = that is the result of their hateful belligerent pride. And regarding Living for the Lord......YOU SHOULD ........with the understanding that this is discipleship, and its what we do because of the Salvation that God has imputed to us, so that we are even become disciples, in truth. A Legalist tries to subvert God's grace with their discipleship and will tell you that if you are not also doing this, you can "lose your salvation". And the truth is, there are many who claim to be disciples of Christ, but in reality they are really just disciples within their own self righteousness, parading themselves around as real believers. And this is why they will fight Grace and accuse anyone who is giving full credit to the Lord for what He alone has provided, of being "hyper Grace". Legalists have assumed the role of savior of self as their "Grace", and reject Christ's Atonement and the Free Grace of God who provides it, as being dangerous and "hyper". Real students of the Word, know that this is exactly what the Apostle Paul was dealing with as well, regarding the Gospel of GRACE that He preached. "Nothing new under the sun". blessings, <B><

Thanks for that information. Yes it's awesome that we have those things recorded in the Bible for us.

I was thinking about this again this afternoon while walking in the park. Somehow the topic came up about growing older, and I commented that the above is why you invest yourself in the things of God. People who invest in the things of this world start feeling like everything is passing them by by the time they reach their mid-fifties, whereas as I still feel like I have my whole life ahead of me because all my goals have been and still are spiritual. All they have to encourage themselves with are things like grandkids, and even then the grandkids may not be able to spend a lot of time with them. What next? Grow old in a nursing home, with family members who are still chasing their own lives and don't have time to come see you? Better to invest yourself in Christ and have purpose in Him until the day you die. You can still be a blessing to people everyday, and have a true reason for being that gives your life joy and meaning, both now and forever.

Paul's original name was Saul. It is basically the same spelling except for the first letters. In regards to the Otiot, the ancient Hebrew alphabet, the pictograph symbol for (S) is a thorn, where (P) is a mouth. Paul's thorn is his old nature. He most probably suffered a lot of guilt, remorse and shame for persecuting a lot of Christians before his conversion.

FORESHADOWING CHRIST (Gen. - Deut.) The first five books of the Bible were written by Moses under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit. Christ is foreshadowed in a variety of ways - symbols, signs, sacrifices all help us to understand His character, functions & vocations. In the first book of the Bible we read of the beginning of things - Genesis, meaning origin. The beginning of the world, the human race, sin in the world, the promise of redemption, family and man-made civilization, nations and of Israel. Christ is foreshadowed as the seed promised, (Gen. 3: 15) and as the Son beloved of the Father. (Gen. 22: 12 - 14) In the book of Exodus we see the thrilling epic of God hastening to the rescue of man. It tells of the redeeming work of the sovereign God. It begins in darkness and gloom, yet ends in glory; it commences by telling how God came down in grace to deliver an enslaved people, and ends by declaring how God came down in glory to dwell in the midst of a redeemed people. We read of the giving of the Law and of the building of the tabernacle. Christ is foreshadowed as the sacrificial Lamb. (Ex. 12: 27) In the book of Leviticus we read of God instructing Israel as to how to draw near to a holy God - the five sacrifices and the Feasts of the Lord. To administer these sacrifices before God there was need of a priesthood. God chose one tribe, the Levites, and one family, Aaron`s, to be priests before Him. The feasts were an overview of God`s purposes for Israel over time. Christ is foreshadowed as the High Priest. (Lev. 16: 32 & 33) In the book of Numbers we read of the wanderings and experiences of the people in the wilderness. The tribes were numbered and set in order with God stretching over them a cloud by day and fire by night. We read of Moses` leadership amid a murmuring and rebellious people. Finally all those who refused to go over into the land of promise previously, all died in the wilderness. A new generation would go over. Christ is foreshadowed as the leader, greater than Moses. (Num. 11: 11 - 14) In the book of Deuteronomy we read of the blessings of obedience and the curse of disobedience. It is a collection of the sayings and songs of Moses which he gave as his farewell to the children of Israel. It is a book of Remembrance, as Moses reminded the people of what God had done for them. It is the final preparation for entering the Promised Land. Christ is foreshadowed as the true prophet. (Deut. 18: 18 - 22)

Hi everyone! I don’t know if there is a topic like this and I couldn’t find one. So here it is, if anyone ever needs a hug! Post it here and I’ll send you a virtual one. I know it’s not the same as a normal hug but I think everyone could do with a little love from our sisters or brothers in Christ! I also just really love giving people love. *hugs to everyone*

Lol, the Quran says Isa (your Jesus) is the messiah. Jews that disbelieve in Jesus have no reason too, all the prophecies of Jesus are in the Hebrew Bible and Old Testament and are very much clear even when put into context.

Jews also agree with Muslims that Jesus isn't the Messiah and never believed Jesus was God ! I am ready to agree with Jews for both of our claims

In English there are many antichrists as in John : Little children, it is the last time. And as ye have heard that Antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists, whereby we know that this is the last time. In English there is also sons of the devil as in Acts : ....a certain magician, a Jewish false prophet named Bar-Jesus. He was with the proconsul, Sergius Paulus, a man of intelligence, who summoned Barnabas and Saul and sought to hear the word of God. But Elymas the magician (for that is the meaning of his name) opposed them, seeking to turn the proconsul away from the faith. But Saul, who was also called Paul, filled with the Holy Spirit, looked intently at him and said, “You son of the devil, you enemy of all righteousness, full of all deceit and villainy, will you not stop making crooked the straight paths of the Lord? But to what good purpose, and profit, do I want to have a word to separate people? Do I wish to make a personal judgement? Do I want to disparage groups of individuals, clustering them as not being worthy of sharing the gospel of my Lord with in hope they might remember my testimony along with the testimonies of many saints in Christ of Christ Jesus when the Holy Spirit does call them to repentance of their own personal sins against God? My own salesman's training makes me wary of winnowing out a prospects list and then calling those I reject as good prospects by some disparagement out of my own judgement. I prefer to think of individuals as "not yet" or as "successful", and that the salesman that makes and closes the deal is the Holy Spirit. At best I only advertise and encourage, to the benefits of being saved onto life eternal with God through the only way to Him, which is by the shed blood of His son Jesus. I will pray for those that do "not yet" know Him as Lord of their shame, and their savior, and if they at some point in their life hear the call of the Holy spirit and do repent I will think of them as becoming "successful", but I don't know that finding a name that cloisters them all together much helps that intent. I will instead leave that to God and His judgements.

Hi Tech, hugs and prayers first and foremost....what I would like to humbly point out is your confession is all about what you don't have....as my signature states at the bottom Proverbs 18:21 Life and death are in the power of the tongue and they who love it will eat the fruit thereof.....this is pretty profound but it has so much truth to it....did you know your words have power? Did you know the Bible says the most powerful weapon ever formed is the tongue and the words of our mouth? Did you know that the Bible says whatsoever a man thinketh so is he/she....The Bible says to speak those things that are not as though they were.... My point is that we are bound by the very words we let come out of our mouth.....and the Bible speaks numerous times about putting a watchguard over our mouths and to speak LIFE ......I would start changing my words....stop speaking that you don't have and start speaking that your God supplies ALL your needs according to His riches in Glory. Well God Bless....much love to you in Christ.

Hmm . . . sorry, bud, but that's starting to sound a bit Gnostic. Just sayin'. Deeper Relationship was the same thing the Gnostics were claiming and were roundly condemned in Scripture.

Protests most likely. There's always protests. Maybe the Useless UN will condemn Israel again, or not. Something to keep an eye on anyway. No need to worry since God's got this all worked out - and we know who wins in the end.

That job was taken last I heard . . .

It was already decided many times throughout history that Christians who rejected the Trinity wouldn't be called Christians, in Islam there were never councils or meetings to decide which sect was right and which was wrong, there was never firm decisions on doctrine.

Heartily agree, bryan.......... I was with a few friends years ago, leaving a restaurant paying our bills, when our waitress came up to us and ask who left the fake twenty dollar bill with a Jesus loves you folded inside. She threw it at us. It wasn't me, but I felt tremendous shame. Never left a tract again.

Ella....if you know you are a sinner who needs a Saviour you are miles ahead of the unsaved and the religionists who are trusting in themselves, whether they know it or not. If you can say from your heart...” Lord Jesus, have mercy on me a sinner” , Jesus has promised to show you mercy.”Anybody that asks to be saved W I L L BE SAVED”....... not put on probation.Trust Him and He will put His Spirit in you .You do not have to change to become a Christian——- but if you trust HIM....watch out! He just might change you....He desires to finish the work that HE started.He’ll do what nobody can, which is to change us from the inside.God bless.

Let me know when you are going to address anything I post. On this forum, we are not debating the person, but the topic. In this case, the topic is the falling away, or departing as you prefer. Let me reveal how far off you are from what Paul said, again. Take verse 1 apart one piece at a time, applying proper context. II Thessalonians 2 Now concerning Concerning what? the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our being gathered together to him, Two things, that is what Paul says, concerning two things. The coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, AND our being gathered together to Him. The and is an important part of the sentence, so here is a breakdown on what it means. and >conjunction 1 used to connect words, clauses, or sentences. 2 used to connect two identical words to emphasize progressive change or great duration: getting better and better. 3 (connecting two numbers) plus. 4 informal (after a verb) to: try and do it. See there, Paul connects the two things together, His coming, and our being gathered. II Thessalonians 2:2 not to be quickly shaken in mind or alarmed, either by a spirit or a spoken word, or a letter seeming to be from us, to the effect that the day of the Lord has come. Now Paul tells us that His coming and our gathering is the day of the Lord in the second verse. II Thessalonians 2: 3 Let no one deceive you in any way. For that day will not come, unless the rebellion comes first, and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the son of destruction, In verse 3 Paul tells us that the day of the Lord will not come, until the departing (as you like to call it) comes first. This makes them two separate things you see, because you can't have a gathering before the gathering. First you have a rebellion, then His coming and our gathering comes after that. This is how it works in any language. This thread is about the falling away, specifically, not rapture positions. What is nonsensical, is trying to change the departing (as you prefer) into the rapture, when the rapture takes place afterward according to Paul. Once you accept what Paul is saying here, it dismantles the rest of the position anyway. God bless

FORESEEING CHRIST (Joshua - Esther) These books give the further history of the people of Israel. Joshua led the people into the Promised Land where they overcome their enemies. God tells him to - `Be strong and of good courage, for to this people you shall divide as an inheritance the land which I swore to their fathers to give them.` (Joshua 1: 7) Once in the land the people are ruled by judges whom the Lord raised up to deliver His oppressed people. There were three types of judges - warrior, priest, prophet. The people began to do what was right in their own eyes and not God`s. Although there is much apostasy God did not leave His people. Finally Israel decided they wanted a king. Thus we see a succession of rulers, some following God and others dominating the people and going into idolatry. Eventually the kingdom of Israel becomes divided, with each part going into exile. Then we read how the Lord begins to restore His people to their own land after seventy years in Babylon. Ezra and Nehemiah are given the work of rebuilding the walls of Jerusalem and the temple. The story of Esther takes place during the time of the empires of Babylon and Persia. Esther became queen and was able to go before the king and speak on behalf of her people - Israel. The victory over Haman is celebrated as the festival of Purim when they overcame their enemies plot. In the historical books Christ is foreseen in different appearings - man like or angelic. These signify the dominion of Christ, His authority & administration. Joshua saw a `man` Prince of the host of the Lord.(Josh.5:13 - 15) Gideon saw Him as `the angel of the Lord. (Judges 6:12) David saw Him as the `angel of the Lord.` (1 Chron. 21: 16 - 18) Solomon saw Him in a dream. ( 1 Kings 3: 5) Isaiah saw Him on His Throne. (2 Chron. 26: 22, Isa. 6:1)

There is no sitting on the fence. One side or the other all will choose.

Don't leave....this is good training and exercising of our LOVE walk....kind of lets us see where we are in it....don't let the beliefs of others offend you...I will pray for you that you will be an overcomer and that you will be able to put on your spiritual armor before entering in the battle zones (lol as i call it sometimes).....I will pray that you will be able to guard your heart so that the arrows the enemy tries to shoot into your heart cannot penetrate. God Bless.

It is certainly possible for born again believers walking in the integrity of their heart to be deceived. All the warnings in the bible against deception are addressed to those who belong to Christ. If we think we cannot be deceived, that our hearts cannot deceive us......then we are deceived already. Now is not the time to relax our guard, put our feet up, and congratulate ourselves on winning the last skirmish (that's a snare already)......the battle is only just beginning to warm up in these last days....soon will be the battle of the ages......spiritual as all get-out. The devil is always waiting to devour what is birthed in us, the moment it is born, at every stage of the way.

I myself was born into a secular Muslim family, the oppression of the Sharia made me delve into reading about Islam which finally caused my rejection of it.

I was brought up in a Christian family, but it didn't "take." I considered myself an Atheist for many years. I didn't believe there was a God at all. And then 9/11 happened and I discovered an Islamic discussion board, borrowed a Qur'an from the library and started asking questions as I read verses in the Qur'an. I wanted to find out what they believed. I knew next to nothing about what was in the Bible. I met some very nice Muslims on that site from, England, Pakistan, Singapore, Egypt, Canada and the United States and a few who weren't so nice. Reading the Qur'an forced me to read the Bible because the Muslims kept asking me about things in the Bible -- the Trinity and the talking donkey ("Oh, no there is a talking donkey in the Bible? Donkey's can't talk!!!) and I had to look them up and read commentaries. I like to think God sent me there because once I started reading the Bible -- studying it and commentaries -- I became a believer. I can't pinpoint the exact date I became a Christian. I used to think I was OK not believing in God; I was all right the way I was; I was a good person. But once becoming a Christian I knew I wasn't OK. I know the difference between what I was then and who I am now.

If a tract is going to be effective at ALL, it must present the gospel message. Otherwise, it's just a business card for a church. I'm not much into tracts, although I know God can and has used some. Most are either too watered down or too sensational or corrupt for much use.

I don't think that picture there is a good example. You say it includes bible verses, but I see none. Not only that, but it advertises the Catholic church. The issue, it would seem to me, is that a tract is a lot like a postcard. You try to sound articulate on the postcard, but due to lack of space, it's just like, "The food here is good. I like pie and pizza." A tract, you are trying to simplify things that really aren't quite so simple, stuff that can have lots of intricate details. In fact, I think for just one topic, you'd need at least a small booklet to cover everything. I get the idea of simplifying things, as most people aren't willing to take the time to read things. However, in my opinion, if that's their initial disposition, I don't think they'd be much interested in reading the bible, much less reading anything that they don't find relevant. They may be able to have a small effect among a small amount of the population, but you'd have to have a good balance (not too simple but not too complex) and really hit the nail on the head as far as the target audience goes.

When the tracts are based upon the word found in the bible and not man's religion, and actually contain the gospel message, then a seed may be planted. I would be sure you are sharing the message of Jesus Christ of the bible, and not a false christ on earth. The one above is not a gospel tract explaining the simple good news of the bible. It is simply encouraging participation in mans dogma of a false religion to capture those unaware. I was involved in the same religion for thirty years. Then someone shared the TRUTH and a seed was planted, and eventually blossomed to a child being born. Be careful. In order to grow (spiritually), you first have to be born (spiritually). Ask God what He would have you do. Then listen. My opinion, as someone who has been there. May God help and direct you Sierra.

Hi Ella. I want to address the second and third lines of your first post above. Wingnut asked if you have a personal relationship with Jesus Christ. Ella, the Lord loves us as individuals. He created each one of us with our own distinct spirit, soul and body. In previous posts you have indicated your desire to know the Lord, and expressed that you weren't sure you could be acceptable. Ella, dear lady, I believe the Lord wants you to be part of His family. Please believe us when we tell you that you come to the Lord as you are, and He will do the work to see you through. All you need to do is receive Him by faith, through grace, as outlined in Ephesians 2:8+9. The purpose of my post is to let you know that, because He loves us as individuals, He knows us - each one of us - better than we know ourselves. He knows all our problems, weaknesses, faults and sins. Please know that you are absolutely acceptable to Him. Jesus loves you Ella. He loves you. You needn't worry. If indeed you don't have that relationship with Him that Wingnut asked you about, then just ask Him to forgive your sins, repent and follow Him as closely as you can. Read others' posts as well. I have known a sister almost from her birth who has Downs' Syndrome. She loves Jesus, and has faith in Him. Because Jesus knows her and loves her, she is saved. It doesn't matter if she doesn't understand everything. She is saved. We are all different. It's all okay. He accepts us and deals with us individually. Just put your trust in Him. Believe me, none of us is perfect or will be until we all see Him face to face! He understands all our difficulties and the problems we face. He will show you The Way.

It's dangerous to go by whatever our hearts are telling us...........but we have to TEST whatever our hearts are telling us, and every source of what we learn and believe. Be sure everything lines up with and agrees with the word of God. A pilot flying a plane NEEDS the instruments, otherwise if he just flies by the seat of his pants, he'll end up crash-landing upside down in a treetop in the middle of nowhere. True the details of our lives differ, and God may use different scriptures to speak specifically into the lives of each one, but we all should agree on the fundamentals....and be on the same highway and course to arrive at the same point in the end.

This is true. If it were me, maybe I would have said that I don't know if he's in heaven or not. But here's what the bible says, and show him the appropriate verses pertaining to salvation. This is a tough one for me.

NO to the question. Only the Messiah is authorized to build the Temple of God -- just as Solomon and Zerubbabel were so authorized by God beforehand. Zechariah 14 does not speak of any Temple in place at all before the judgment of God is fulfilled. Any Temple build by anyone else would not be God's Tempe, period. Zech 6:12 “Then speak to him, saying, ‘Thus says the LORD of hosts, saying: “Behold, the Man whose name is the BRANCH! From His place He shall branch out, And He shall build the temple of the LORD. Zech 3:8 ‘Hear, O Joshua, the high priest, You and your companions who sit before you, For they are a wondrous sign; For behold, I am bringing forth My Servant the BRANCH. 9 For behold, the stone That I have laid before Joshua: Upon the stone are seven eyes. Behold, I will engrave its inscription,’ Says the LORD of hosts, ‘And I will remove the iniquity of that land in one day. 10 In that day,’ says the LORD of hosts, ‘Everyone will invite his neighbor Under his vine and under his fig tree.’ ” Joshua/Jeshua, the High Priest that worked with Zerubbabel to build the 2nd Temple, was a sign of the Latter-Day true Branch of prophecy: the Messiah, the Priest-King of God, because both have the same name.

This was plainly devastating for you and I cannot imagine what it was like. Ultimately though, heavy drinking and trying occult practices are not going to remove the pain and bring any resolution or healing. In the long run, they are going to add more problems to both your life and your kids. My grandmother lost two husbands (the first in a gruesome farm accident in front of much of the family) and an adult son (military plane crash) during her life. That was long before I was born. My memories of her are that she was one of the most peaceful and contented people I ever knew. It wasn't until later as an adult that I started to understand the depth of the tragedies she had experienced in her life. I don't know how it was that she made it through these things and emerged as she did. I just know from her that it is possible to do so. I also know those things affected my dad was well. About every decade or so, my mom and dad drive out to see the farm field where his brother's plane crashed. You also never know when something will trigger it all over again (such as when my dad saw the plane crash in the movie Top Gun). I think it would be good for you to talk to an experienced pastor or a good Christian counselor who is experienced at helping people with grief. Such losses are something that will never go away. Many people need help and support to be able to handle this type of burden and pain. While many will not understand what you are feeling and going through, there are many people out there who have gone through something similar and could be a support to you. Some churches have ministries focused on those dealing with grief. Most pastors should know of people who are experienced grief counselors. While your pain and loss are unique, there are others who've been through similar things who might be able to give you some support so you do not need to do this alone.

My thorn? It wold be the memories of who I once was, the nightmares these memories create. I have peace in Him, but my past cannot be forgotten to ensure I do not repeat it.

Hi TechEnthusiast, Can understand some what. I didn`t marry till in my 3o`s and was thus single amid married couples. Eventually in our town the singles (Christians) got together once a month and had a meal, an evening with different ones playing music, also going to a bowling alley, etc. Over time other people came to different events and yes, I met my future hubby there. So perhaps you and another can start a small group and it may grow. Good for fellowship bro. Marilyn. BTW the group was made up of all denominations.

Well, the first thing I would have to say is that Christianity is definitely NOT all smiles and roses for everyone, no matter what age group. Even in marriage there can be a loneliness there you don't see, including among those whom you currently think may have it all together. Loneliness can be characteristic of even the greatest servants of God on occasion, so what you want is to let that loneliness drive you into even closer relationship with the Lord. And certainly don't view yourself as some sort of outcast from the Lord's servants, because I can promise you that's not the case. If anything, it means you are in very good company. Here. I found a brief article that might help. I won't cite the entire thing, but the beginning reads as follows: "Every now and again in times like these, I think of the prophet Elijah, anxious and fretting in a cave, so depressed he could barely eat. He was fleeing from Queen Jezebel, who sought his life. As Elijah looked to his beloved Israel, he saw a rather discouraging portrait of fellow Jews who were either too confused or too fearful to resist the religion of the Baals required by Jezebel. He seems to have felt quite alone. Perhaps he was the last of those who held the true religion, or so he thought and felt. In the cave, Elijah pours out his lament: And there he came to a cave, and lodged there; and behold, the word of the LORD came to him, and he said to him, “What are you doing here, Elijah?” 10 He said, “I have been very jealous for the LORD, the God of hosts; for the people of Israel have forsaken thy covenant, thrown down thy altars, and slain thy prophets with the sword; and I, even I only, am left; and they seek my life, to take it away” (1 Ki 19:9–10). And But God will have none of this despair or complaining, and says to Elijah: And the LORD said to him, “Go, return on your way to the wilderness of Damascus; and when you arrive, you shall anoint Hazael to be king over Syria; and Jehu the son of Nimshi you shall anoint to be king over Israel; and Elisha the son of Shaphat of Abel-meholah you shall anoint to be prophet in your place. And him who escapes from the sword of Hazael shall Jehu slay; and him who escapes from the sword of Jehu shall Elisha slay. Yet I have seven thousand in Israel, that have never bent the knee to nor bowed to Baal, nor kissed him with the mouth” (1 Ki 19:15–18).

Greetings in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ, iamlamad, I was pre-trib for 40 years and taught it for thirty. However, by God’s grace I came to recognize that there were some fundamental flaws, false assumptions, that insured the development of a flawed model for the order of end time events for the pre-tribulationist and post-tribulationist alike. Being given these false assumptions as babes and going through the process of developing an understanding of Biblical prophecy in light of them, has led to some very tenuous eschatological systems. The first false assumption is that the seventieth week is the “Tribulation Period” or the period of God's wrath. We do believe that the seventieth week remains in the future and will be initiated by the confirmation of the covenant with many by the prince that shall come (Antichrist, Beast) (Dan 9:26-27). However, there is nothing said about it being unparalleled until the middle of the week when the “great tribulation” begins. There is not a single passage which indicates that Jacob’s troubles, the time of trouble that Daniel spoke of, or the wrath of God on the day of the Lord begin at the beginning of the week. These are all unparalleled events, none of which happen until the second half of the week. Yes, the beginning of sorrows that Jesus spoke of parallels what John sees when the first three seals are opened, and they appear to take place in the first part of the week, but the wrath of God is not present until the seventh seal is opened and the first trumpet blown. What John sees at the opening of the 4th and 5th seal, describes the unparalleled persecution of the church and Israel, in the great tribulation. This persecution comes from the Beast and his followers. The Beast will be given power by Satan when he is cast out of Heaven to the Earth having great wrath (Rev 12:12). If you will notice in Rev 6:9-11 that the souls under the alter shall be crying out for God to avenge their blood upon the earth dwellers. However, they are told that they must wait a little while until their brethren and fellowservants are killed as they were. It is important to see that God’s wrath has not yet been poured out at the opening of the fifth seal. He tells them that they should rest a little season, because more had to be martyred before God would avenge them. Rev 6:10 And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth? Rev 6:11 And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled. If you will notice in Rev 6:12-17 that the cosmic sign and great earthquake that portends the day of the Lord is seen by John at the opening of the sixth seal. Joel and Peter, quoting Joel, both said that before the day of the Lord could come that the cosmic sign must take place first. Joe 2:31 The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before the great and the terrible day of the LORD come. Act 2:20 The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before that great and notable day of the Lord come: John describes the cosmic sign and the terrible shaking of the earth that Isaiah spoke of, when the day of the Lord comes. Rev 6:12 And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood; Rev 6:13 And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind. Rev 6:14 And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places. Rev 6:15 And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains; Rev 6:16 And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb: Rev 6:17 For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand? Isa 2:19 And they shall go into the holes of the rocks, and into the caves of the earth, for fear of the LORD, and for the glory of his majesty, when he ariseth to shake terribly the earth. Isa 13:6 Howl ye; for the day of the LORD is at hand; it shall come as a destruction from the Almighty. Isa 13:7 Therefore shall all hands be faint, and every man’s heart shall melt: Isa 13:8 And they shall be afraid: pangs and sorrows shall take hold of them; they shall be in pain as a woman that travaileth: they shall be amazed one at another; their faces shall be as flames. Isa 13:9 Behold, the day of the LORD cometh, cruel both with wrath and fierce anger, to lay the land desolate: and he shall destroy the sinners thereof out of it. Isa 13:10 For the stars of heaven and the constellations thereof shall not give their light: the sun shall be darkened in his going forth, and the moon shall not cause her light to shine. Isa 13:11 And I will punish the world for their evil, and the wicked for their iniquity; and I will cause the arrogancy of the proud to cease, and will lay low the haughtiness of the terrible. The cosmic sign of the sun, moon, and stars going dark must come before the day of the Lord (God’s wrath at the beginning of the day of the Lord) can come. At the opening of the sixth seal God’s wrath is impending. The earth dwellers, that is, those who have worshiped the Beast and received his mark, and have been persecuting the church, shall begin to hide when this most significant cosmic sign appears (Rev 6:15-17; Isa 2:19). It is upon that very day that sudden destruction shall come upon them as a thief and they shall not escape (1Thes 5:2-3). However, when these signs appear the saints who remain alive will look up and lift up their heads for their redemption draweth nigh (Luke 21:25-28). Before God begins to pour out His wrath on that day, the Lord Jesus and the holy angels will appear in the clouds (Matt 24:30; Rev 1:7; Mark 8:38; 2Thes 2:1), the dead in Christ shall be resurrected (1Cor 15:51-52; Dan 12:1-2; Rev 20:4-6), the living believer shall be changed (1Cor 15:51-52; Phil 3:20-21), they together shall be gathered by the angels unto Jesus in the clouds (Matt 24:31; 1Thes 4:16-17; 2Thes 2:1), and taken to the Fathers house to stand before the throne (John 14:3; Rev 7:9-17). Only after the church, the elect, are safely removed from the earth will God’s fierce wrath be poured out upon the earth dwellers in the trumpet and vial judgements followed by the destruction of the Beast, False prophet, and their followers at Armageddon. This period of God’s wrath lasts at least six months and no more than 3 1/2 years roughly. It takes up what is remaining of the last half of the week after the great tribulation is cut short. We are not told how long the great tribulation is. All we know is that it starts in the middle of the week and that is shares the 3 1/2 years with the wrath of God in the beginning of the day of the Lord. The fifth trumpet judgement lasts 5 months and it is part of God’s wrath. There has to be enough time to accomplish all the trumpet and vial judgements and the destruction of the Beast and the armies that follow him at the end of the week. Jesus lets us know when the wrath of God on the day of the Lord begins. Mat 24:29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: Jesus says that the cosmic sign that comes before the day of the Lord appears immediately after the tribulation of those days, which in context is the great tribulation that he identified in verse 21. After the great tribulation is the cosmic sign. After the cosmic sign is the wrath of God in the beginning of the day of the Lord. There are two periods of tribulation. In the first the Beast tribulates the church and Israel. In the second God tribulates the earth dwellers who worship the beast and persecuted the saints. They both take place in the second half of the week, one after the other. When you realize that the day of the Lord, and therefore God’s wrath, doesn’t begin until after the great tribulation is cut short at some point in the second half of the week, it has a big impact upon your eschatological model. (Note: the beast continues for 42 months, but his ability to persecute the church is over when the cosmic sign appears indicating that Christ’s return to gather His own unto Himself is at hand. At that point they hide, but we look up.) Remember, we were given a faulty frame upon which to build our eschatological house. The only way to end up with the house (Biblical eschatological model) that the Lord has given us, is to start over with the frame that the Holy Scriptures provides us. Take the verses which make explicit statements as the framework. Statements which are without question. These are certainties, they can be depended upon. Complete your frame before you try to fill it in with the things that appear to be implied. Once you have taken all the explicit statements on the matter, then use them as true reference points to measure the implications of other verses by. Doing this will provide you with an end times model that has the full support of the Scriptures, without the need to do a bunch of hermeneutical gymnastics. Eisegesis and hermeneutical gymnastics are examples of what the Apostle Peter identified as wresting the Scriptures. Those who do such are false teachers even though they may have the best of intentions. They do great damage to themselves and those that fall under their teaching. Exposing one false assumption is enough for now. All praise, honour, and glory be unto the Lamb

One chapter where man gets any glory........”heroes of faith”....... I noticed there is no chapter in the Bible about heroes of commandment keepers......can we take away anything from that I wonder? Man does not get the glory at all. Nobody would have this faith if it were not given to them from God. He gets the glory.

I think the root of this problem can be found in the modern day version of the altar call. The one on one counseling that was once a customary action has been lost and diminished to singular verses that don't begin to touch on what the true meaning is. For example, belief in and of itself does not meet the standards according to scripture. Here is an example of what I mean. James 2:19 You believe that God is one; you do well. Even the demons believe—and shudder! Luke 4:41 And demons also came out of many, crying, “You are the Son of God!” But he rebuked them and would not allow them to speak, because they knew that he was the Christ. Clearly even these demons know who He is, and believe, but that does not make them saved. So what is it that people are not being told? Hebrews 11 Now faith is the assurance of things hoped for, the conviction of things not seen. 2 For by it the people of old received their commendation. 3 By faith we understand that the universe was created by the word of God, so that what is seen was not made out of things that are visible. I highly recommend you invest in a complete reading of Hebrews 11 for further clarification. God bless

They do not understand the Source of their Salvation.They are trying to trust “their” performance with its ups and downs instead of the Perfect Performance thAt was finished on their behalf by Jesus on the Cross,shedding His Blood .

Israel is my son, said Yahweh. We Christians are grafted into Israel. Anyone that messes with Israel will be duly sorry.

I got a mental disability when I was 18, when I was 21 I was locked in a state hospital for two years, I read the bible through once during that time, when I got out I tried working fulltime, but when I couldn't work any more I almost ended up homeless. After that I started studying the bible on and off, for about 12 years, and after meeting some bad pastors, who lied and didn't even know it or wanted money to answer my questions, then after that I started studying the bible to see if I could make any sense of it, I just kept studying it, now I've read it well over 100 times, have a mp3 player now and listen to it 2 to 4 hours a day. I'm not saying all pastors are bad, I know there's some good ones, I just can't bring myself to go to church though, I don't know if it's my childhood experience, my illness that's not going away, but is well managed be meds. So since I'm on disability I study the bible, play hymns on the harmonica on the street, and talk to a some people I know, I've always been a loner, but I enjoy studying and playing hymns.

I would say that many people still are haunted from their past, which is Satan buffering us. I know that I still have nightmares of my past and it is not because Jesus did not bare them on the cross, but Satan also was around the days I have been alive and he knows my past. Because he knows my past, he is all too willing to remind me in hopes that I become discouraged and weak in faith. To say this is not the case is denying reality and trying to live totally spiritually, which can lead to Gnosticism. I would not give Satan more power than he has, but I would also not ignore the power that he has.