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  1. I was just curios how many believe because God is Sovereign that sin is here by His Will? The God of Scriptures speaks profoundly about His nature of holiness: Ps 93:5 5 Thy testimonies are very sure: holiness becometh thine house, O LORD, for ever. KJV To place sin in the creative act of God or bear witness that God has ordained it to be is, according to the verse above, calling sin the holiness within God's house... The simple construct of God's nature is holiness: Isa 6:1-4 6 In the year that King Uzziah died, I saw the Lord sitting on a throne, high and lifted up, and the train of His robe filled the temple. 2 Above it stood seraphim; each one had six wings: with two he covered his face, with two he covered his feet, and with two he flew. 3 And one cried to another and said: "Holy, holy, holy is the Lord of hosts; The whole earth is full of His glory!" 4 And the posts of the door were shaken by the voice of him who cried out, and the house was filled with smoke. NKJV Rev 15:4 4 Who shall not fear You, O Lord, and glorify Your name? For You alone are holy. For all nations shall come and worship before You, For Your judgments have been manifested." NKJV The necessity to maintain a pure and clean heart to have fellowship with God speaks to us all the total aspect of * God | sin * …and the two cannot have the same source or the necessity to deny the Scriptures that says such: James 3:11-12 11 Doth a fountain send forth at the same place sweet water and bitter? 12 Can the fig tree, my brethren, bear olive berries? either a vine, figs? so can no fountain both yield salt water and fresh. KJV It is by this very example of creation (above) that we join this (below) Rom 1:20 20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse: KJV
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  2. Just when physics has everything figured out, God throws them a curve ball. Source: Sterile Neutrinos I believe there's more mysteries for them to ponder.
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  3. For those who are confused or not aware why Religious Tolerance is not of Christ I had some statements that would not paste so I will do my best to make it plain its a bout is world peace. This is a movement of interfaith byt the RCC to except other religions as Im OK you are OK so we can lay down the sword of violence in the world. It is basically be religions that believe in one God as Christian Muslim and Jewish My comment-- This will also be the desire of the antichrist Government. He must have the support of friendly religious alliance. This of course is only a temporary stepping stone to power. The false Christian church will also be of political ambition and is already working for interfaith relation's Many Christians also desire world peace, They want the worldly rainbows. Why not Any Questions will be answered
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  4. Greetings in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ, RM, I'm not buying what your selling. It's a confusing mess. Hallelujah
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  5. Glad to hear! God' s timing! I'm noticing encouraging sings of the Spirit at work as well. And on the topic of this thread, you can notice a lot of links with sources talking about this specific prayer, as never in other historical periods except for the early first century. We can contribute to get the bride ready for Her bridegroom, praying for Him to rescue Her soon
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  6. Interesting comment -- as you think people get banned easily. People get removed from threads for personal attacks. A personal attack -- is not tolerated -- it's not a hard rule. People are removed from threads -- however it's very difficult to be "banned" entirely from the forums! Debate the subject -- not the person! Remember the Terms of Service .... this is what people signed up for to participate in the forums ... This is from the TERMS OF SERVICE -- Abuse of other posters is not allowed. This includes, but is not limited to, name calling, insulting, harassing, threatening or in any way invading the privacy of another poster. We also strongly discourage giving out personal information such as email addresses, physical addresses and phone numbers on the public boards. Any information given out in private is at your own discretion and risk. (Eph. 4: 29) Debate the subject, not the person. It is possible to disagree about a doctrine or subject under discussion without insulting the person with whom you are debating. Also remember that the fact that a person disagrees with you does not mean they are attacking you as a person. Respect each other in the love of God! This is the main reason that threads get stopped, shut down, and even deleted! Users that cannot respect others will be banned. (Lev. 19:18) Just so you know ... Your brother in the Lord with much agape love, George
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  7. ‘And when the woman saw .. that the tree was good for food, .... and that it was pleasant to the eyes, ...... and a tree to be desired to make one wise, she took of the fruit thereof, .. and did eat, .... and gave also unto her husband with her; ...... and he did eat.’ (Gen 3:6) * The lust of the flesh, the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life (1 John 2:16)
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  8. That isnt biblical at all. In the new testament, folks got baptized right away upon professing Christ. Not when mere men decided they met their standard after 2 yrs.
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  9. I see now where you got that from my comments, but no, I am English, Scottish, and Swedish. I'm about as gentile as it gets. ? That was the ancestry I was referring to.
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  10. But Paul says we are not in Darkness and Christ says to watch. What is the point of watching if it does us no good? Even if we do not know the hour we can discern the times if we study and watch. Mar 13:35 "Watch therefore, for you do not know when the master of the house is coming--in the evening, at midnight, at the crowing of the rooster, or in the morning--
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  11. Hi Butero, and thanks for your reply! There is an interesting commentator (Albert Barnes) that points out that Heb 6:4-6 is referring those born again, but verse 6 is just a supposition--"If they fall away," e.g. if they could fall away--they could not be "renewed." To me it's an insinuation of something impossible, i.e. if the sun cease to exist all would be destroyed. The other supposition relates to the supposition that the Son of God could be re-crucified, which is an impossibility. Blessings!
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  12. Greetings in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ, 1to3, you can rest confident that we, the church, will not experience God's wrath upon the day of the Lord. Notice that Paul's statement in 1Thes 5:9, that we are not appointed unto wrath, comes in the context of Christ's arrival upon the day of the Lord as seen in vss 2 and 3. 1Th 5:2 For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night. 1Th 5:3 For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape. 1Th 5:4 But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief. 1Th 5:5 Ye are all the children of light, and the children of the day: we are not of the night, nor of darkness. ... 1Th 5:9 For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ, The day will catch the unbelieving, beast worshiping world unawares, but we won't be caught by surprise. "But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief". Jesus told us in Matt 24 what signs would precede His coming. Paul tells us of them also. Many were first spoken of by the prophets. We can expect: The return of Elijah (Mal. 4:5) The rebuilding of the temple in Jerusalem (Matt 24:15) The re-institution of the daily sacrifice and oblation in the rebuilt temple (Dan 9:27) A turbulent 3.5 year period Jesus called the beginning of sorrows (Matt 24:4-8; Rev 6:1-6) The revelation of the man of sin in the temple (the Beast) (Matt 24:15; 2Thes 2:3-4) The unprecedented persecution Jesus called "great tribulation" (Matt 24:15, 21-22; Dan 12:1; Jer 30:7) The apostasia (a notable departure from the faith as the result of the persecution and deception) (Mat 24:9-12, 24; 2Thes 2:3-10) Immediately before His return there will be a mega earthquake and the cosmic sign Joel spoke of (Joel 2:31; Isa 2:19; Rev 6:12-17; Matt 24:29) These are a few of the reasons we will not be caught by surprise. In fact Luke records Christ's words concerning what we should do when we see the final signs of His arrival. Luk 21:25 And there shall be signs in the sun, and in the moon, and in the stars; and upon the earth distress of nations, with perplexity; the sea and the waves roaring; Luk 21:26 Men's hearts failing them for fear, and for looking after those things which are coming on the earth: for the powers of heaven shall be shaken. We will see the sign of Christ's immediate return, the great earthquake and the sun, moon, and stars going dark and the world's fearful response. It is immediately after these that Jesus will be coming in the clouds with the mighty angels for all the world to see. Luk 21:27 And then shall they see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory. Jesus tells us when we see these last signs began to happen, look up and be encouraged for our redemption is nigh. Luk 21:28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh. If I've made it alive through the unprecedented persecution, at that time I'll have my eyes on the skies looking for Him who is my blessed hope. For He will at that time appear any moment, revealing Himself in His glory to all the world. Rev 1:7 Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen. Know of a certainty that we are not appointed unto God's wrath. But know with equal certainty that the last generation of the church will experience unprecedented persecution that Jesus called "great tribulation". Draw close to Him and He will give you the strength and grace to persevere. Rev 12:11 And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death. All praise, honour, and glory be unto the Lamb
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  13. Yes shiloh this is how I have always been taught, but there have been now so many threads and members here on worthy that are saying that there will be no rapture before the tribulation and both sides pointing with scripture to defend their stance. It has made me now not know for sure what it will truly be. But as a Christians having a daily relationship with Christ we are told in scripture to persevere no matter what trials befall us , so whether the rapture happens before the tribulation begins or not, it is good for us walking the walk in Christ Jesus to just continue our walk of faith in Him and work out our own salvation with fear and trembling, The bible says no one will know the hour when these things will come about but nevertheless to be prepared as the coming of the Lord will be like a thief coming in the night when we least expect it. 1 Thessalonians 5:2 The Day of the Lord 1Now about the times and seasons, brothers, we do not need to write to you. 2For you are fully aware that the day of the Lord will come like a thief in the night. 3While people are saying, “Peace and security,” destruction will come upon them suddenly, like labor pains on a pregnant woman, and they will not escape.… Philippians 2:12 11 and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father. 12Therefore, my beloved, just as you have always obeyed, not only in my presence, but now even more in my absence, continue to work out your salvation with fear and trembling. 13For it is God who works in you to will and to act on behalf of His good pleasure.…
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  14. Greetings in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ, n2thelight, it is true that the church will be here to experience the unprecedented persecution brought on by the Beast, False Prophet, and their followers. Nonetheless, you better read what Jesus said on the Mount of Olives again, because you and He disagree, and I'm going with Him. Mat 24:21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be. Mat 24:22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened. Mat 24:23 Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not. Mat 24:24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect. Mat 24:25 Behold, I have told you before. There are multitudes who are "Christian" in name only, these, along with the rest of the world, will be deceived into worshiping the Beast and receiving his mark by the signs, lying wonders and false prophets. However, it is impossible for the truly elect (genuine Christians) to be deceived into receiving the mark and worshiping the Beast. We, as Peter did, should be calling upon "professing Christians" to make their calling and election sure. The multitudes of "professors", those who call themselves Christians, but who don't know Christ, will be offended and fall away when they face unprecedented persecution. Mat 24:9 Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name's sake. Mat 24:10 And then shall many be offended, and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another. Mat 24:11 And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many. Mat 24:12 And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold. Mat 13:20 But he that received the seed into stony places, the same is he that heareth the word, and anon with joy receiveth it; Mat 13:21 Yet hath he not root in himself, but dureth for a while: for when tribulation or persecution ariseth because of the word, by and by he is offended. 2Th 2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition; But those who are Christians indeed, will persevere, even unto death. Rev 14:12 Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus. Rev 14:13 And I heard a voice from heaven saying unto me, Write, Blessed are the dead which die in the Lord from henceforth: Yea, saith the Spirit, that they may rest from their labours; and their works do follow them. Rev 13:10 He that leadeth into captivity shall go into captivity: he that killeth with the sword must be killed with the sword. Here is the patience and the faith of the saints. Luk 21:19 In your patience possess ye your souls. Rev 12:11 And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death. Hallelujah
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  15. Worse yet is the pious practitioner of Christianity that always tries to set traps for others and turns on most everyone of the local body while cherishing the opportunity to accuse, pointing out the sliver in their eye. Seems to me sharing of Jesus does not require a lot of specific sin calling out, for all have sinned and fallen short of the Glory of God. Calling out specific sin seems to me to get one into a discussion of the degree of sin rather than the need to have sin's price or consequence paid up, in full.
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  16. I think that will be a very long wait.
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  17. God knows. The 12,000 from the 12 tribes might not know who they are, but the Lord has kept track. 144,000 " Rev 14:4, "These are those who did not defile themselves with women, for they remained virgins. They follow the Lamb wherever he goes. They were purchased from among mankind and offered as firstfruits to God and the Lamb. 5 No lie was found in their mouths; they are blameless." Speculating, one might think these are very young, preteens perhaps. In this age to be a virgin and blameless and so honest no lie was found? Not gonna be 20 somethings. IMO.
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  18. Either we choose Christ as our Lord and Savior now and bow to Him, or we will be forced to do so at the great white throne judgement. It will be too late at that time. Heb 9:27b NKJV but now, once at the end of the ages, He has appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of Himself. Heb 9:27 And as it is appointed for men to die once, but after this the judgment, Heb 9:28 so Christ was offered once to bear the sins of many. To those who eagerly wait for Him He will appear a second time, apart from sin, for salvation. Believers will not be at the great while throne judgement. Our names are written in the Lamb's book of life and we will be judged according to the good works He has done through us in this life. Our sins are already blotted out with His blood, so only the good remains to be judged. Romans 1 says that all know about God through nature. Rom 1:18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who suppress the truth in unrighteousness, Rom 1:19 because what may be known of God is manifest in them, for God has shown it to them. Rom 1:20 For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even His eternal power and Godhead, so that they are without excuse, Rom 1:21 because, although they knew God, they did not glorify Him as God, nor were thankful, but became futile in their thoughts, and their foolish hearts were darkened. Rom 1:22 Professing to be wise, they became fools, Rom 1:23 and changed the glory of the incorruptible God into an image made like corruptible man—and birds and four-footed animals and creeping things. There will be no more chances for unbelievers to be saved. Most are not saved because of their pride and the hardness of their hearts. That is very hard to hear. It should motivate us to share God's love for sinners with all that we know.
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  19. I've finished reading the article on the link...wow..It clears up a lot for me, thank you, again..
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  20. Oh, thank you so much for the link..I need to learn more about some of the current Christian music..I do listen to music quite a bit, then I'll see someone say something about it and I'm not sure if I should listen to a group or not..The Getty's write a beautiful song, In Christ Alone..I love the song , I was a little shocked to read that one church denomination, think it was Presbyterian, not sure on which mainstream one it was, but they refused to put it in their hymnal because the verse that says,..on the cross when Jesus died, the wrath of God was satisfied....I don't see anything wrong with those words...I do like some of Hillsong music, but I'm not sure about what the church actually believes, and I am not charismatic.. I would not listen to any song that conveyed an errant message.
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  21. Greetings in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ, The Holy Scriptures tell us that we (the church) are overcomers not by physically prevailing over our enemies, but by our faith, perseverance, and faithfulness even unto death. Rev 12:11 And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death. Hallelujah
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  22. Yowm I nver sain not to pray for others and our leaders to come to Christ. I mean the corrupted government, religion, and greed of Babylon. When Jesus said I pray not for the world he was talking about rebellion and spirit of antichrist that is and of the world.
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  23. Jhn 15:16 NKJV “You did not choose Me, but I chose you and appointed you that you should go and bear fruit, and that your fruit should remain, that whatever you ask the Father in My name He may give you. YOU DID NOT CHOOSE ME, BUT I CHOSE YOU means exactly that. He chose us for the purpose of bearing fruit. I don't believe this is purely directed to the apostles. But it is apparent that they also thought they had chosen to follow Jesus. I believe that God draws us by His Spirit to believe in Him. But it is possible to resist His Spirit as others have said referring to stiff necked Jews. The fact remains that He does not desire that any should perish but that all should come to knowledge of the truth and many other scriptures reveal Gods will that all be saved. So most of us can look back and recognize how God had wooed us and called us to receive Him. He first chose us according to His foreknowledge. But not all will receive Him.
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  24. After reading the link I think I am in between. I believe much prophecy was fulfilled in the past but there is still a lot of unfulfilled prophecy still.
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  25. And there is the core and crux of our various disagreements on eschatology. All arguments about the timings, meanings, and identifications of people in Daniel's 70th week all hinge on this, don't they? The reason I rejected the premise stated above is that I see Matt 24 and 1Thess 4 as referring to the same event. Once I rejected the pretribulation rapture of the church, many other things changed as well. I do see a definite difference between national Israel and the church. There is also a difference between fleshly Israel (those born Jews) and believing Jews of all ages or dispensations. It is the second group into which we have been grafted and thereby inherit the kingdom. I could be wrong, but I have found plenty of scripture to support my position. (This in no way makes me think that those who disagree are lost or heretics or anything else.) Revelation 2:9 I know thy works, and tribulation, and poverty, (but thou art rich) and I know the blasphemy of them which say they are Jews, and are not, but are the synagogue of Satan. Romans 9:6-7 ¶ Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel: 7 Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called. Ephesians 2:11-13 ¶ Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands; 12 That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world: 13 But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ. Ephesians 3:2-6 If ye have heard of the dispensation of the grace of God which is given me to you-ward: 3 How that by revelation he made known unto me the mystery; (as I wrote afore in few words, 4 Whereby, when ye read, ye may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ) 5 Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit; 6 That the Gentiles should be fellowheirs, and of the same body, and partakers of his promise in Christ by the gospel:
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  26. Your child is with God. It doesn’t matter whether a pregnancy is 1 day or 7 months. It is life. The Life is in the seed. Gen. 9:9. God bless you both.
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  27. Newborns that didnt have a choice. That's what you're asking and Christ called them unto Him. He has a plan for them. My wife and I had a miscarriage and know what God has shown us. Blessings waiting for us.
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  28. If we start to import images from other parts of the bible, there will be no end to it and we can probably make Rev say anything we want it to say. That is why there is so much confusion over Rev. I believe in the natural reading and that Rev like every other book in the bible is self-explanatory. As I said previously, end-time Israel does not give birth to the end-time church. I see the inconsistency but some may not. That is OK; everyone is entitled to his or her opinion. I guess we will have to agree to disagree. Thanks for the conversation.
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  29. You think harpazo cannot apply to Jesus and thus 12:5 does not refer to him but to the end-time church. Yet you think John represents the end-time church in 4:1 even though harpazo is not used. Where is the consistency? That is why those who argue 12:5 is the rapture are usually mid-trib. But more naturally, harpazo in 12:5 is aptly used of Jesus because he was delivered from many attempts by Satan to kill him during his time on earth.
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  30. Hi Hazard, I believe all futurists accept that chs 4-22 expand “what must happen hereafter” of 1:19. But apart from pre-trib, other futurists do not interpret “hereafter” as “after the churches.” Because the text does not say that. Instead, “hereafter” normally means “after this” (see ESV) i.e. pointing to the future. So in 4:1 John is told that he will be shown the future in the visions to follow. We need not read more into it than what is there.
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  31. I tend to agree. I don't necessarily see elements of divine judgment in the first six seals, especially the fifth as you indicate. The sixth seal tells of the desire to be hidden from the coming wrath, indicating it is still future. And they said to the mountains and to the rocks, “Fall on us and hide us from the presence of Him who sits on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb; for the great day of their wrath has come, and who is able to stand?” Revelation 6:16-17 Then the seventh seal is opened and begins the series of the seven plagues which are God's judgment on those who have aligned themselves with the false prophet.
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  32. Glad to meet someone who is willing to discuss these views without taking things personally. To me, Seal 5 indicates that the seals are not God's judgments. Those who are slain asks God, "How long until you judge the inhabitants of the earth?" If the seals were God's judgments, wouldn't he reply something like, "What do you think is happening now? I am judging the earth." Instead, God tells them to wait a little longer. It implies that his judgments will follow, likely in the form of the trumpet plagues. The church will be removed before the latter. PS. Can't find Mark 21:36 in my bible.
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