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Shalom, As I've been reviewing threads in recent weeks, it's amazing to me how fast the term -- "false teacher" and "heretic" are used to slander the brethren on "non-essentials" of the faith. When these terms are used they should be only used on salvational issues. If you read our Statement of Faith -- or the Apostles Creed -- these are what I would term "essentials" of the faith. These essentials are the core values of every born-again believer and shouldn't be issues of debate. However, there are MANY other issues that are up for "discussion". What do I mean discussion points -- well things that are not clearly defined in Scripture -- and in these discussions often are shut down because of the lack of fruit within them. One of the most debated subjects is the "timing of the rapture." In my walk with the Lord, I've found a great many saints that had various viewpoints on these issues. Many of whom, I would consider Fathers of the faith -- however, I may have disagreed with them over different points of view. For example, one of the saints I admire, R.A. Torrey wrote a book called the "Person and the Work of the Holy Spirit". In the midst of his ministry, actually changed his rapture position from Pre-Tribulation to Post-Tribulation. Now his book, the Person and the Work of the Holy Spirit was written during his time when he taught the "pre-trib" position -- however, he changed his position at the end of his life. So is this book no longer "valid" -- because he changed his positions? Absolutely not! His book, the Person and the Work of the Holy Spirit radically changed my approach to the Holy Spirit and how to walk the Spirit-Filled life. Amazingly, he was the first superintendent of Moody Bible Institute -- and yet they don't teach what He taught any longer. But by understanding his life, and his walk, I came away with this understanding as Paul so eloquently wrote -- "1Co 8:2 And if any man think that he knoweth any thing, he knoweth nothing yet as he ought to know." So if R.A. Torrey was alive today ... he would have been called by some on both sides of the rapture debate a heretic at different times of his life! ... continuing this thought process

I'll try to make this as brief as possible. A little under two years ago, I started talking to a colleague at work. At first, I was just simply attracted to his appearance but the more we started talking, the more my feelings developed. He comes from a Catholic background, he goes clubbing, drinks and he smokes marijuana. I can always resist the temptation to go clubbing (or pubbing should I say) but when I have been invited and I know he'll be there, I'll instantly agree to tag along. I left my job, the autumn of last year, he attended my leaving do and we were inseparable for the night, outside in the smoking area (I don't smoke by the way), next to each other in photos and on the dancefloor. I secured and left three positions after this job in question but I ended up returning to this same company office, a little over a week ago. The only difference is, I am now working in another department. My main problem is, I cannot stop thinking about him, he is constantly on my mind. I'm a little confused, I understand that God has a reason for everything he does but I don't understand why/how I ended back at the same company for my crush to resume. I understand that we must not be unequally yoked, in my mind as I am sure some believers have been in my position, I'm hopeful that he his relationship with God will blossom. I'm about 75% sure that the feeling is mutual (maybe not to my extent but there is some certainty he may feel the same way) I have prayed on it but what else should I do?

I've led many to the Lord Jesus in all kinds of places, I don't see where baptizing them would be any different except maybe sharing the experience with others or making it formal with a church authority .. I have no problem at all either way .

No physicist thinks that physics has everything figured out. Which is good news. At least I will not be unemployed anytime soon. sieglinde

Many in my family were baptized by others in my family. We are told to. Our authorization is the word. Mat 28:19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost.

I am glad you started this thread George to speak to this issue, and how you illustrated the point with examples of faithful men, who disagree and even change their minds in response to what they are convinced are better understandings that what they previously believed. Some people are so self-assured (prideful) that they seem unable or unwilling to open their eyes, ears, and heart such that if they are in error, they could be open to correction, growth, or learning. Others, are certain that what they believe, is directly from the Spirit of God, yet somehow, it is not possible, that the other person is also able to be taught by the Spirit. Some people come to conclusions after considerable and serious study. Some study to prove their own conclusions correct, and just brush away passages that would seem to contradict their positions, as if they were not there. Others, listen to teachers who can say things that sound so reasonable, yet are not balanced scripturally. This is to be expected ( 2 Tim 4:3 ). These problems and issues, are not limited to any one position of controversy, nor even to just prophecy. However, it does impact people, damaging relationships, even appearing to make enemies of those we Christians are to love greatly - our brothers and sisters in Christ. Worse, it even gives evidence to the world, that we are not even Christian ( John 13:35 ), and we should not be doing this - we damage each other, we damage the church, we even hurt Jesus' reputation by this behavior. Anyway, I just wanted to say thanks for the thread, and add that I think it is a shame, that this even needs to be said. It would certainly be helpful, if people could just understand the difference between peripheral theology, and doctrines that damn. We should not shy away from passionately explaining our views to build one another up, and we should be just as open to being corrected, as we hope others are. Personal pride in what we believe, can be a recipe for continued ignorance, so it is good to check ourselves now and then. When we engage in debate on these forums, we should be slow to speak, quick to listen, and read our own post before hitting that Submit Reply button. Ask ourselves - "Is what I just wrote, building the other person up, or tearing them down" and "For the others who come along and read this later, will they see a kind, well thought out response that they can learn from, or will they be repelled by what they see and avoid the discussion because of the animosity?" I hope people will think and pray about these things!

So what is my point to this thread? Your end times position -- is not a salvational issue -- and if GREAT MEN of God who still have FRUIT that remains today had various end times positions, it shouldn't' startle us if we at Worthy Christian Forums have various views of the last days! The problem is that when brothers and sisters in the Lord can't simply discuss a topic -- and suddenly we're throwing around the label -- "False Teacher", "False Prophet", "Heretic" -- then we're no longer discussing something as a family -- we're becoming the accuser of the brethren! Do you really want to be a mouthpiece for the enemy? Personally, my views of the last days are "fluctuating" because in my mind the book is still somewhat "sealed" as Daniel describes. In my life as a believer, I will discuss something with someone I completely disagree with -- and I'll often play "devil's advocate" and play the other side in order to better understand the positions -- and try to learn something! I usually learn from people with whom -- I disagree with -- more than I learn from those I agree with! Sometimes I wonder if the discussions of the last days are simply a method of the enemy to distract the body from doing its main mission -- to spread the gospel and to disciple those in the faith? If you're spending more time "defending" your end times position -- then focusing on our main mission on this earth -- then its a problem. However, if you're like me -- and your life is consumed with Yeshua (Jesus) -- then I love to talk the Bible -- to talk different positions with my family -- then enjoy having discussions on different views on "non-essential" issues! But if in your discussions with family over these issues lead to "anger, bitterness, resentment, etc" then you need to re-evaluate to yourself -- "am I being manipulated by the enemy?" Because in any discussion with family -- it should never lead to losing your love, joy, and peace as a believer. So I pray that you receive these words as an encouragement -- not to argue -- but to disagree in love. Because at the end of the day, if you are a blood-bought child of God -- you're family no matter what your end times position may be! Your brother in the Lord with much agape love, George

When Darby brought in the ideas of the "pre-tribulation" rapture -- he was of the order of the "Plymouth Brethren" and one of the icons of the Plymouth Brethren movement was George Mueller. Now in my life, George Mueller, was instrumental in my life by his powerful books on Prevailing Prayer. In the beginning of his ministry, he was reaching Jews in Germany with the gospel. Later in his life, he went to England and started some of the largest orphanages and was one of the leaders of the Plymouth Brethren movement -- and yet he disagreed with his counterpart in the movement as he was a post-tribulationist. He simply asked, "Can there be a resurrection before the first one?" And cited Revelation 20:4-5. So here were two brothers in the Lord -- icons in their own movement who disagreed with each other. Both extremely influential -- yet BROTHERS!

As I write this, we have been reading the Book of Luke. I thought it might interest some of you, to see what it was like, if you were a protestant of means, able to afford one of those new fangled things called a printed Bible. Some people refer the the King James Bible, as the authorized version. It was an authorized version, authorized by the King, and the translation was completed in 1611. This authorization was for the Church of England. While the Church of England was not Roman Catholic, neither was it properly protestant church. The King James Version, was commissioned, in part, to counteract the Bible popular with protestants, to help make it easier to maintain the religious hierarchy of the Church of England. The protestants were too critical of the Church of England for the Kinds tastes, so a new version was commissioned for use in the churches of the Church of England. Basically, the Church of England, was protesting the protestants. While the KJV is an "authorized version" it was the third authorize version. Prior to it, was the Bishops Bible, of 1568, and before that, was the Great Bible, of 1535. The King James version, as was said, is AN authorized version. It was not given the title of "The Authorized Version", until 1814. Lest you get the impression, that I am anti King James Version, I am not. I love the King James Version, and it has been EXTREMELY important in church history. It is a good version. There was a faction of the Church of England, known as the Puritans. They were not called the Puritans, because they were so pure and holy, though that is how many have come to think of that term. The Puritans, were about purging or purefying the church, not just of the abuses of the Roman Catholic Church, but also from issues of having a church, run by a monarch. The Puritans believed that the Church of England, was still too "Catholic" in it's operation. The puritans believed in the priesthood of all believers, not an appointed caste of Popes and Bishops and the like. This did not earn them the admiration of Kings and Popes, so they were persecuted and exiled. They were protestants, in most senses of the word. The Bible of choice, among the Puritans, was the Geneva Bible. The Geneva Bible, was the first Bible to have chapter and verse numbers, and it was translated in 1560. It was carried on the Mayflower to America, and it was the most popular English Bible, during the period of the Protestant Reformation. Why this abbreviated history lesson on early English Bible versions? I wanted you to see how easy you have it. Bibles were not often in the hands of common people. The belief of the reformers, that the Bible should be available to all, and the invention of the printing press, was the beginning of the process that lead to mass Bible access. If you were a well off Protestant, over 400 years ago, what would you have seen? Here is page of a Bible (the Geneva Bible), that was printed in English, before the King James Version.

SCIENCE IN THE BIBLE Spherical Earth. “It is he that sitteth upon the circle of the earth." Isaiah 40:22. "..when he set a compass upon the face of the depth." Proverbs 8:27. Circle 2329 = Compass 2329 in Hebrew is "Khoog" = to describe a circle, or circuit, meaning the horizon which is circular. In 712 BC, when Isaiah wrote this, people thought that the earth was flat, and that you could sail over the edge of it and fall off. Columbus and Magellan proved that the earth was circular by sailing around it in a circle from East to West and then returning to the point of departure. Question: How did the Bible know that the earth was spherical? Answer: God wrote it! The Earth Hangs in Space. "He hangs the earth upon nothing." Job 26:7 stated 1500BC. Until modern times "experts" believed ideas such as the earth sat on four elephants, who stood on a giant turtle, who swam in the ocean. Man could not imagine how the earth could hang in space on nothing. Yet this is what happens due to gravitational attraction between the earth and the sun, giving the appearance that the earth hangs on nothing.  The Bible includes some principles of fluid dynamics. Job 28:25 "To establish a weight for the wind,And apportion the waters by measure." The fact that air has weight was proven scientifically only about 300 years ago. The relative weights of air and water are needed for the efficient functioning of the world’s hydrologic cycle, which in turn sustains life on the earth. The bible includes reasonably complete descriptions of the hydrologic cycle. Psalm 135:7 "He causes the vapors to ascend from the ends of the earth;He makes lightning for the rain; He brings the wind out of His treasuries." Jeremiah 10:13 "When He utters His voice,There is a multitude of waters in the heavens: And He causes the vapors to ascend from the ends of the earth. He makes lightning for the rain, He brings the wind out of His treasuries.” In these verses you can see several phases of the hydrologic cycle—the worldwide processes of evaporation, translation aloft by atmospheric circulation, condensation with electrical discharges, and precipitation. The Bible describes the recirculation of water. Ecclesiastes 1:7 "All the rivers run into the sea,Yet the sea is not full;To the place from which the rivers come, There they return again." Isaiah 55:10 "For as the rain comes down, and the snow from heaven, And do not return there,But water the earth,And make it bring forth and bud,That it may give seed to the sower And bread to the eater, " Hydrothermal vents are described in two books of the Bible written before 1400BC—more than 3,000 years before their discovery by science. Genesis 7:11 "In the six hundredth year of Noah’s life, in the second month, the seventeenth day of the month, on that day all the fountains of the great deep were broken up, and the windows of heaven were opened." Job 38:16 "Have you entered the springs of the sea? Or have you walked in search of the depths?" Cloud Balancing. "Dost thou know the balancing of the clouds?" Job 37:16. Clouds are floating in the air, balanced by two forces: gravity pulling them downwards, and warm air pushing them upwards. How did Job know about this in 1500 BC? God told him. All Mankind came from One Woman. "Adam called his wife's name Eve: because she was the mother of all living." Genesis 3:20. DNA is found in every cell, in both the nucleus and the mitochondrion (energy station). Mitochondrial DNA is always and only inherited from the mother. Analysis of this DNA in humans from all over the world shows unmistakably that all humans have inherited it from one woman. This research was done by Wilson, Cann, and Stoneking from the University of California, Berkeley. (Creation Ex Nihilo, Vol.12, No.2, March 1990). The Bloodstream Carries Life. "The life of the flesh is in the blood." Leviticus 17:11. From 400 BC to 1900 AD, a procedure called "blood letting" was popular. Sick people had blood drained from their bloodstream as a supposed therapeutic measure. It was responsible for killing millions of people, such as George Washington. People thought that blood carried disease instead of life. By draining the blood, the patient died of blood loss. Now we give blood to some sick patients. The Bible was right again. Winds blow in Circuits. "The wind goes toward the south, and turns about unto the north, it whirls about continually and the wind turns again according to his circuits." Ecclesiastes 1:6. At the equator, the sun heats the air causing it to rise. In the upper atmosphere this airflows away from the equator. When the air returns to the earth's surface, it flows across the surface. This moving surface air produces the six belts of prevailing winds around the earth. Winds have Weight and hence Air Pressure. "To make the weight for the winds." Job 28:25. Galileo in 1600 AD noted that a suction pump would not raise water more than 34 feet. Torricelli suggested that if air could support a column of water 34 feet high, then air should support a column of mercury about 2.5 feet high, because mercury is 13 times as heavy as water. Torricelli made a mercury barometer and proved that air has pressure Can a Whale swallow Jonah "Now the Lord had prepared a great fish to swallow up Jonah. And Jonah was in the belly of the fish three days and three nights." Jonah 1:17. Many people use this as their reason for doubting the Bible's truthfulness. How can a fish swallow a man? Several cases in modern times have been reported of a whale swallowing a man who survived. One is reported by Francis Fox in "Sixty-three years of Engineering" p.298-300 and confirmed by two scientists, one being M. DeParville, the scientific editor of "Journal Des Debats" in Paris. In February 1891, the whaling ship, "Star of the East" was near the Falkland Islands, where they sighted a large sperm whale. Two boats were sent out after the whale. One boat harpooned the whale, but the whale upset the other boat, drowning one man and the other sailor James Bartley, disappearing without a trace. After the whale was killed and cut open two days later, James Bartley was found unconscious and doubled up inside the whale. He had lost his senses through fright and not through lack of air. His skin was bleached white from stomach acid. He fully recovered. If a man can survive two days in a whale in 1891, surely Jonah could have survived three days in a great fish in 862 BC. Sea Paths or Ocean Currents. "Whatsoever passes through the paths of the sea". Psalm 8:8. "Paths" in Hebrew means "customary roads." Matthew Maury is the father of Oceanography. A statue of him exists in Virginia with charts of the sea in one hand and a Bible in the other. Until Maury's work there were no charts of sailing lanes. One day during a temporary illness, his son read from Psalm 8:8. Maury stopped him, asking him to read it again. Maury then said: "It is enough. If the Word of God says that there are paths in the sea, they must be there, and I am going to find them." Within a few years he had charted the sea lanes and ocean currents. Question: How did the Bible know about sea paths or ocean currents? Answer: God wrote it. Light can be Parted or Dispersed into a Rainbow Spectrum. "By what way is the light parted (Heb.2505)?" Job 38:24. "Parted" in Hebrew is "chalaq” which means, "separated". White light can be separated into 7 colours of the spectrum which are red, orange, yellow, green, blue, indigo and violet. This was not understood until experiments with light were performed in the 1600's. Note: Light is like Jesus Christ: "I am the light of the world." John 9:5. As light has seven colours, so Christ has the seven spirits of God. See Isaiah 11:1,2.

These are videos I did, concerning the doctrine of the imminent return of Christ. There are more videos in the series, but this to deal with Matt 24. https://www.worthychristianforums.com/topic/142668-jesus-imminent-return-parts-1-4posts-1-12-15-16/ https://www.worthychristianforums.com/topic/142668-jesus-imminent-return-parts-1-4posts-1-12-15-16/?do=findComment&comment=1849766 The videos are about ten minutes long each. Reading the same material, if I typed it out, might have taken longer to read and digest. Watch if you like, I won't be offended it you do not

Precious Holy Spirit in the name of Jesus , I ask that you open the hearts and minds of all that wants to understand and hear what You are saying to them. I also ask that you hide me in the palms of your hands so that men will see that I'm just a vessel that you use for the glory of Jesus Christ our Lord , Amen. Hearing the Holy Spirit speak is something that doesn't happen over night. It's going to cost you something and sadly this is where most Christians draw the line. They don't want to take a little bit of time each day to learn how to hear the Holy Spirit speak to them. They're to busy with worldly desires and pleasures. As I explained, it's going to take time to discern the voice of the Holy Spirit and it's going to take a humble spirit ( Jer. 29: 12-13 ) Based on Bible Scripture were going to learn some of the ways the Holy Spirit speaks to us. ( John 16: 13-14 ). We already have the Holy Spirit living inside of us once we become saved , so the rest is up to us. Most of the time the Holy Spirit speaks to us through Scripture. By reading and studying the Bible your spirit retains all the Scripture verses you are reading. Sometimes as your reading a particular verse or verses the scripture becomes alive. The Holy Spirit illuminates your understanding and you know, that you know, and you don't need anyone to tell you what it means. Also as your spirit retains God's Word the Holy Spirit will reveal a certain scripture that you might have forgotten , maybe years ago, to help you when you are having problems in a certain area of your life ( 2Tim. 2:15 ). God has made all of us in a unique way. Each of us must listen to God in the way that He chooses to deal with us. One of those ways is known as the inner witness or the inner knowing ( Proverbs 20:27 ). This is the Lord speaking to us through our conscience, check in your spirit, a leading, or a quickening ( Rom. 8:16 and Rom. 9:1 ). When the Holy Spirit speaks to you it will be a strong inner knowing. Suddenly you receive a supernatural illumination, an enlightment, of what a scripture means or how the Holy Spirit is trying to help you with a problem . It will be as the old expression goes, I know, that I know, that I know, without a shadow of a doubt or I've got a gut felling to do something or not to do something. In addition to receiving a direct message from the Lord, the Holy Spirit can lead us a certain way. This is commonly referred to as a prompting or unction. We feel or sense that the Holy Spirit is gently nudging us to do something. Sometimes we can also feel a very strong unction or prompting from the Lord as He leads us to go in one direction or another ( Matt. 4:1 ) ; ( Rom. 8:14 ). Just as the Holy Spirit leads us in a certain direction, He can also do the opposite. When we pick up on this from the Holy Spirit , it's generally known as a check in your spirit. This is like a stop sign. The Lord is telling us not to go down that path. These checks keeps us from making all kinds of mistakes in this life. A good example of receiving a check in your spirit can be found in ( Acts 16: 16-67 ). I know that most of you are familiar with the term a quickening from the Holy Spirit. A quickening is when the Holy Spirit causes something to jump out at you. You maybe reading the Bible and suddenly a verse or verses will seem like they jump off of the pages and you get a supernatural understanding of what the Holy Spirit is conveying to you. The Holy Spirit sometimes will use preachers, small study groups, worship songs, and even the things God created on the Earth to say something to us. We must remember, not to go looking for these quickening, but to let the Holy Spirit give them to you according to His will ( Heb. 4: 12 ) There are moments throughout the day when the Holy Spirit is speaking to us through our conscience, or mind. To be able to hear and understand is by practicing, by reason of use. In other words the Holy Spirit will put something good into your mind that you normally wouldn't conjure up yourself ( Rom. 9:1 ). This is where your faith comes in to play ( 2 Cor. 5:7 ; Gal. 2:20 ; Heb. 10:38 ; Heb. 11:6 ; and 2 Peter 1:5 ). Stepping out in faith when the Holy Spirit speaks is like when we first learned to walk, ride a bicycle, or drive a car. If we make a mistake the Lord isn't going to punish us. He simply picks us up, dusts us off, and says no my child this is the way to go ( Matt. 11:29 and Psalms 37: 23-24 ). Brothers and Sisters, I pray that all of you will seek the Holy Spirit to help you. Our Lord Jesus said, that He will ask the Father, and He will send the Holy Spirit to us ( John 16: 13-14 ). The Holy Spirit is waiting for you with open arms. Salvation isn't all there is to serving the Lord. If you don't seek Him you will never know the love, joy, happiness, peace, and spiritual understanding that He gives. You'll only know what the world and the flesh gives. May our Lord Jesus Christ Bless All of You. AMEN.

Hello, I just joined today so it’s nice to meet everyone. I have been so worried about committing the unpardonable sin today, and it’s very saddening because I was just becoming very content in my walk with Christ because i had been struggling with salvation doubt which I had finally got over. I was reading where the Pharisees was accusing Jesus of, you know, I don’t really want to write it down. I have struggled with blasphemous thoughts before, but not like this. Today I’ve been having thoughts that I agree with what the pharisees said, but I know I don’t mean them but I’m scared I did. I was also having thoughts that were tempting God. I’m very scared I’m doomed for eternity. I asked the Lord to forgive me for these thoughts, but I’m still worried. Thanks for any replies.

When I started this club, I was posting scripture verses from four versions of the Bible, and hosting the pages on one of my own websites. I had the King James Version, because some people only trust that version. I had the New King James Version, because some do not trust the underlying manuscripts used for many modern Bible translations, but they want or need a more modern form of English, something younger than 400 years old. I had the New International Version, because it is very popular in evangelical churches, and it is very easy to read, uses modern English, without being baby talk, and it uses manuscripts that some consider to be more reliable or accurate than those which underly the manuscripts the KJV is based on (due to their older age) theorizing that time has a way of corrupting things, in the hands of mankind. Some believe in the ancient manuscript idea, but are willing to sacrifice some of the readability that the NIV offers, in order to gain a more literal translation, since the NIV tends to be quite paraphrastic. To these readers, I offered the New American Standard Bible. However, when I was doing this, it took me almost 2 hours every day, to put all of this together. I did not want to lose that much time to this task, so I came up with a more efficient means to accomplish the same goals. I started to link to another site, where people could read, and choose from even more versions. Additionally, this allowed me to offer links to hear the Bible professionally read instead of reading or in addition to reading. These extra features, now take me only 15 to 30 minutes a day, preparation for the daily assigned reading. Now, I want to point out another thing one can do: Opening more that one version at the same time to read and compare on version to another. You can create a page with versions of you choice in parallel. See the image below to see how it is done, and what the result looks like:

Pray for them. Mat 5:44 But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you; That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust. For if ye love them which love you, what reward have ye? do not even the publicans the same? And if ye salute your brethren only, what do ye more than others? do not even the publicans so? Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.

As I said before, if its the Lord's ministry -- and has ALWAYS been His ministry, then how in the world will it be removed? You choose to see what you choose to see and have not even a tiny inkling of what's happening behind the scenes. As I said to you in private, time will tell -- as far as the ministry is concerned -- we'll continue to press on, press through, and fight for the souls of the lost! As far as ridicule is concerned? Have I ever once tried to silence you -- or ridicule you? I've reached out as a brother to you and I'm only addressing you in public since you chose to make this a public matter.

I see you added another question. Again, mortal sins have to do with Catholic teachings. There are no such things known as mortal sins in the Christian faith....sin is sin. And we all should confess our sins to the Lord as the Holy Spirit convicts us of something being a sin. Then we are forgiven and cleansed. 1 John 1:9. Have you believed on the Lord as your personal Savior? If so, you should be assured of your forgiveness as the Bible teaches us.

I see you added another question. Again, mortal sins have to do with Catholic teachings. There are no such things known as mortal sins in the Christian faith....sin is sin. And we all should confess our sins to the Lord as the Holy Spirit convicts us of something being a sin. Then we are forgiven and cleansed. 1 John 1:9. Have you believed on the Lord as your personal Savior? If so, you should be assured of your forgiveness as the Bible teaches us.

Are you a born again Christian Willie? If so please ask the Holy Spirit to show you the truth? The book is very deceptive and it completely teaches a different gospel,it's blasphemy ! Michael Yoessoef also has a good video where he preached about this on YouTube,it's actually in the forum under Christian topics ,it's well worth taking your time to listen to .

Sure you can say anything. But just like Michael Youssef, you can't show it.

Very well stated and very true. Thanks, my friend. Blessings, Gids

This is an old devotional I wrote that sums up this thread ... The World Needs to See Our Love! John 13:35 By this shall all men know that ye are my disciples, if ye have love one to another. One day, a man was walking across a bridge and saw another man standing on the edge, about to jump off. He immediately ran to him and said, "Stop! Don't do it!" "Well, why shouldn't I?" he replied. The other said, "Well, there's so much to live for!" "Like what”? "Well ... are you religious or atheist?" "Religious." "Me too! And are you Christian or Jewish?" "Christian." "Me too! Are you Catholic or Protestant?" "Protestant." "Me too! Are you Episcopalian or Baptist?” "Baptist." "Wow! Me too! Are you Baptist Church of God or Baptist Church of the Lord?" "Baptist Church of God." "Me too! Are you Original Baptist Church of God, or are you Reformed Baptist Church of God?" "Reformed Baptist Church of God." "Me too! Are you Reformed Baptist Church of God, reformation of 1879, or Reformed Baptist Church of God, reformation of 1915?" "Reformed Baptist Church of God, reformation of 1915!" To which he said, "Die, you heretic!" and pushed him off the bridge. When we get together with our family here in Israel on Shabbat, we often find ourselves discussing and even arguing our views on various topics, political, spiritual, etc. You’ve heard the phrase two Jews, five opinions? That’s our family. At the end, we all laugh about who argued best and try to learn from one another. The body of the Lord is one big family. Yes, we differ in opinion on some issues. But we are going to be together for eternity and we must learn to live in peace with one another! In order for us to make a real difference in the world, the world needs to see us loving each other. Let’s not be like the man who pushed the other off the bridge. Let’s laugh about it and try to learn from one another.

There is not a more demonic or unbiblical practice than the Catholic confessional. The idea that a sinful man can forgive someone's sins is blasphemy against the Holy Spirit. 1st Timothy 2:5 couldn't be clearer ... “For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus.” Even the corrupt religious leaders of Jesus' time knew that only God can forgive sin, “...who can forgive sins but God only?” (Mark 2:7).

Jesus is our one and only priest. To confess to a human priest, as though they had the power to do anything, is in fact, a sin itself. Jesus died and rose to pay the price for our sins and bridge the gap between us and God, and he serves as our priest. When we go to a human priest as is the way in Catholicism, we slap Jesus in the face, telling Him that we don't need him for our forgiveness of sins.

Listen....... when a person is caught up in something, they dont realize it. In other words, if people KNEW they were deceived............Understand? So, you are a person who has been raised to think about God, and Christ, and Christianity, in a way that God never intended. And the problem for you is. You have not yet come to the realization that your entire "church", is a man-made religion, that uses Jesus and Mary, and the "Host" and all these religious trapping to convince you that its Legitimate. And its not. So, your issue, is not mortal sin, your issue is that you belong to the most rich and beautiful cult that has ever existed to control billions of people's minds. Therefore, you have to deal with this, and find the Truth, so that by doing that you can forever escape all the "mental locks" that have been used on you, all your life. Your church is not about "Jesus'..... Its about RELIGION., and it cunningly and deceitfully uses all the right signs and symbols and words to make you think what you think. And maybe you will have the courage and the strength and the will to find out that what i just told you is the Truth. But if you dont, or if you wont....... then let me assure you of one thing........ The Blood of Jesus and the Grace of God, do not need your penance or your confession, to save you, or to keep you saved. The blood of Jesus and the Grace of God, provide your salvation for you..........ALL of it, .........its a Gift, that you were given, when you Trusted in Christ, in your heart, to be your savior.

Thank you George ... words that I have been waiting to hear.

Then you come across works that are really "different" than everyone else's positions! For example, when you read the life of Watchman Nee, you come across how the Chinese government would change the guards outside his cell every day, because of how many were converted when sitting next to his cell! He suffered greatly for his faith and wrote phenomenal works such as The Normal Christian Life. He wrote about victorious Christian living that inspired my walk. And yet, his end times position was completely and radically different than anyone else I've ever read. He wrote that he believed there were "multiple" raptures based on the harvest cycles of Israel. He actually came away with a rapture position that incorporated "pre, mid and post" tribulation idea into one position! So would I throw out his book the "Normal Christian Life" because I disagreed with his end times position? I'm glad I didn't know of his position before I read his book -- as I may have been influenced by it -- however reading it -- you know this man spent time in prayer and was anointed by God as he began the House Church Movement in China that exploded in the past 70 years. In the 1950's there was less than 50,000 believers in China. By 1953, China had expelled every Missionary out of the country. And yet, under the intense persecution -- in the midst of the fire -- Watchman Nee helped facilitate one of the greatest moves of God in our lifetime! And yet -- his end times position would be labeled by some as "heresy".

Now at the same time, I've been greatly influenced by men like -- Chuck Smith, Chuck Missler and John MacArthur-- and they were and are proponents of a pre-tribulation rapture. Does this mean if you held a "post-tribulation" rapture position, you should throw out their teachings because you disagreed with their rapture position? Chuck Smith wrote great works like -- The Man that God Uses, and Love the More Excellent Way. And these men have influenced my walks immensely!

Over my life, I've been very blessed by Oswald Smith. He wrote such books as The Revivial We Need and The Enduement of Power. During his lifetime, he changed his position on the end times. So during his lifetime, some would have called him a "heretic" depending on which side of the debate you are on. And yet -- he was never a heretic -- his books were powerful and influenced my life! This is an article he wrote, The Rapture – Oswald J Smith Tribulation or Rapture – Which? by Oswald J. Smith Why did the Lord Jesus conceal the Secret Rapture in Matthew twenty-four? How are we to explain the silence of the Church for centuries concerning it? What about the passages that have been used to support it? Have we been lulling the Church into a false security? Are there any outstanding Christian leaders who believe that the Church will go through the Great Tribulation? In my first book on Prophecy I asked the questions: “Will the Church pass through the Tribulation or be raptured out of it?” In answering I made this statement: “I have always held the view that the Rapture precedes the Revelation by some seven years, and that the Church, therefore, will not go through the Tribulation, but I do not want to be dogmatic about it and, if God should reveal the contrary to me, I will gladly accept it”. Hence, you see, I did not approach the subject with my mind closed to new light and my heart already prejudiced. I was open to whatever God might reveal. Now, after years of study and prayer, I am absolutely convinced that there will be no rapture before the Tribulation, but that the Church will undoubtedly be called upon to face the Antichrist, and that Christ will come at the close and not at the beginning of that awful period. I believed the other theory simply because I was taught it by W. E. Blackstone in his book “Jesus is Coming,” the Scofield Reference Bible and Prophetic Conferences and Bible Schools; but when I began to search the Scriptures for myself I discovered that there is not a single verse in the Bible that upholds the pre-tribulation theory, but that the uniform teaching of the Word of God is of a post-tribulation Rapture: pre-millennial always. My First Awakening My first awakening to this important truth came one day in 1925, when I was spending a few days in a cottage at Stoney Lake, Ontario. One of my neighbors, Frank Edmonds by name, simply made the suggestion to me. I opposed it at once. “Why,” I exclaimed, “however could that be? What about the Scriptures? The teaching of a pretribulation Rapture is clear and indisputable.” But he quietly affirmed that I was wrong and emphasized the truth concerning the Last Trump. Of course, I was not convinced. I almost ridiculed the very idea of such a possibility. And there the matter rested. One day, in the early twenties, I began preaching on Prophecy. I had taken my people through Daniel without difficulty. Then came Mark 13. Luke 21, and Matthew 24 and 25. But, lo and behold, no sooner had I started on Matthew 24 than I got into trouble. I had announced that I would deal with Matthew 24 at the next service. Hundreds had gathered. I was in a maze, for I was perplexed. So I took a verse here and there through the chapter and thus satisfied the people for that hour at least. But now the next meeting was coming. What was I to say? I need not point out that there is no pretribulation Rapture in Matthew 24. The Second Coming is unmistakably placed “immediately after the Tribulation” (verse 29), and I was forced to the conclusion that if the Rapture was to be “before” the Tribulation, the Lord Jesus Christ would certainly have given some hint of it at least. He was dealing with the End-Time of the Age. It is unthinkable that He would have spoken so minutely of the Tribulation without stating that the Church would escape. Instead, He purposely led His hearers to the belief that His followers would be in it. Hence, I was staggered, nor could I honestly defend my previous position. So, when I again faced the people, I said sufficient to let them know that I questioned my former stand and saw evidence of a post-tribulation Rapture. For, as I read Matthew 24 and 25, I saw that many things, as prophesied by the Lord Jesus Christ, simply had to take place before Jesus could come, namely: “All these things” (verse 33), especially the prediction regarding the preaching of the Gospel. See Mark 13:10, and note the significance of the word “first”. Thus, since God’s future program could not be set aside, there could be no “any moment expectation” of Christ’s Return. We are to watch, watch as prophecy after prophecy is fulfilled, ever looking forward to His Appearing; and, in the End-Time, to watch as never before, and to always be ready, for none can ever know how quickly the events predicted might come to pass and Christ return. My “Any Moment” Theory Then followed the next step. There came into my hands a copy of a book by Dr. Henry W. Frost, then the Home Director of the China Inland Mission. It was entitled “Matthew 24 and the Revelation,” a volume of over 300 pages. I fairly devoured it. Portions of it I read through twice. It was most conclusive in its arguments for a post-tribulation Rapture. About the same time I got hold of a book by James H. McConkey, called “The Book of Revelation,” and another – perhaps the best of all – by Edmund Shackleton (England), entitled “Will the Church Escape the Great Tribulation?” Before I had read them through I was firmly convinced that there would be no Rapture before the Tribulation, and that I had done wrong in promising the Church an escape instead of preparing her for the terrible ordeal that must most surely be awaited. My “any moment” theory could not be sustained. In fact, the very first statement in the latter book, which was written about 1890, amazed me beyond measure and I was fairly staggered as I grasped its significance. Let me quote it verbatim: “All who held the pre-millennial Coming of Christ were, till about sixty years ago, of one mind on the subject. About that time a new view was promulgated that the Coming of Christ was not one event, but that it was divided into stages, in fact, that Christ comes twice from heaven to earth, but the first time only as far as the air. This first descent, it is said, will be for the purpose of removing the Church from the world, and will occur before the Great Tribulation under Antichrist. This they call “The coming for His saints” or “Secret Rapture.” The second part of the Coming is said to take place when Christ appears in glory and destroys the Antichrist. This they call “The coming with His saints.” Apart from the test of the Word, which is the only final one, there are certain reasons why this doctrine should be viewed with suspicion. It appears to be little more than sixty years old; and it seems highly improbable that, if scriptural it could have escaped the scrutiny of the many devoted Bible students whose writings have been preserved to us from the past. More especially in the writings of the early Christian fathers would we expect to find some notice of this doctrine, if it had been taught by the Apostles; but those who have their works declare that they betray no knowledge of a theory that the Church would escape the Tribulation under Antichrist, or that there would be any “coming” except that spoken of in Matthew 24, as occurring in manifest glory “after the Tribulation.” This is all the more significant, because these writers bestowed much attention upon the subject of the Antichrist and the Great Tribulation. Augustine, referring to Daniel 7, wrote: “But he who reads this passage even half asleep cannot fail to see that the kingdom of Antichrist shall fiercely, though for a short time, assail the Church.” Then when I remembered that the death of Peter, his prediction of corruption and apostasy after his decease, the death of Paul, and many other events had to occur before the Rapture – especially the evangelization of the world (Mark 13:10 and Matt. 24:14 – my “any moment” theory took wings and fled. Last of all, I ran across “The Great Tribulation – The Church’s Supreme Test” by John B. Scruby, the most convincing; the most unanswerable of all. It deals with every point minutely and proves conclusively that the Tribulation precedes the Rapture. Recently I got hold of that remarkable book “Tribulation to Glory” by H. A. Baker, in which he wrote: “For eighteen centuries the fundamental principle of tribulation to glory was the universal belief of the truly born-again members of the Church”, and then he goes on to show that the new pre-tribulation rapture teaching was first proclaimed as a direct revelation by a woman in Edward Irving’s church, and then taken up by John Nelson Darby (and the Scofield Reference Bible) in direct contradiction to the teaching of the Church for eighteen hundred years. “Beginning with the Irvingite woman, then propagated by John N. Darby about 1830, this new “spirit-inspired” doctrine during the last century has come down to us until it has become popular. George Muller opposed it; so did Benjamin Wills Newton; so did Dr. S. P. Tregelles and other Brethren, but all in vain.” But now, thank God, large numbers of our leading Bible Teachers are coming back to the original position. God’s Word I discovered that no time element is ever mentioned so far as the Rapture is concerned, except as it is related to the Resurrection. And that the Resurrection is always placed at the time of the sounding of the Last Trump (1 Cor. 15:51-54). This Trump, without doubt, closes the Tribulation. There is no eighth. The saints are rewarded (Rev. 11:18). The “mystery of God”, is then finished, there is time (delay) no longer (Rev. 10:6 and 7), and the Resurrection, of course, immediately precedes the Rapture (1 Thess. 4:16). Naturally, I thought of 2 Thessalonians 2:7: “he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way”. But then I learned from the Greek that the second “he” is the Antichrist, and that the Greek does not say “taken out of the way,” but “revealed in the midst,” or, “born out of the midst.” In other words, lawlessness will be restrained until the appointed time for the lawless one, the Antichrist, to appear. There is no mention of the Holy Spirit at all. That is a Scofield Bible assumption. The Holy Spirit and the Church remain to the end of the Age. Then, too I thought of Luke 21:36 and of Revelation 3:10. But Noah, I remembered, “escaped” by preservation. Daniel “was kept” and protected in the lion’s den. The three Hebrew children were “kept” though in a burning fiery furnace. None of them were taken out. Rather they were kept, preserved, protected while in, and thus they escaped. Why not the Church? Note that 2 Thessalonians 1:7-10 finds the saints in trouble, in tribulation, and resting only at the close. In fact the first two chapters of 2 Thessalonians cannot be interpreted in any other way. Chapter two, verse one, is most explicit. “Now we beseech you, brethren”, writes Paul, “by the coming (Revelation) of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together (the Rapture) unto Him”. There is here no separation between the Rapture and the Revelation. The Coming is the one and only Coming spoken of throughout the two chapters, the Coming described in chapter one, verses seven and eight. I learned, too, that the word for “meet” in 1 Thessalonians 4: was only used in two other places, and, in both cases, it meant “returning with” and not “remaining at” the place of meeting. When the brethren from Rome met Paul, they immediately returned to the city with him. When the Virgins met the Bridegroom they accompanied Him back to the wedding. When the saints meet Christ in the Air, as He comes to judge the nations and establish His Kingdom on earth, they will return with Him. There is no Scripture that says they will remain for some seven years in the Air. In 1 Thessalonians each chapter closes with a reference to the Second Coming, but no distinction is made. As Christ descends with His angels after the Tribulation, the saints ascend, and, meeting Him in the Air, turn and continue with Him back to the earth. How long He remains in the Air, following the meeting with the Church is nowhere revealed. “The Coming of our Lord Jesus Christ with all His saints” (1 Thess. 3:13), is unquestionably the Revelation, after the Tribulation, simply because the words, “with all His saints” are added. But why infer another, a previous Coming, in 1 Thessalonians 4:17 and 1:10, or 5:23? It is all one and the same. There is no Secret Rapture. That theory must be deliberately read into the passage. There is no Rapture in Revelation until chapter nineteen is reached. I had been taught that the Greek word “parousia” always referred to the Rapture and that other words were used for the Coming of Christ in glory after the Tribulation. But I found that this is not true. Parousia is used for the latter, too. See 2 Thessalonians 2:1. While it is clear that the Church must endure the wrath of the Antichrist, it is certain that the Church will not have to endure the wrath of God. When His judgments are poured out on the Antichrist and his followers, the Church will be divinely protected by God even as the Israelites were protected when His wrath was poured upon the Egyptians – not by being raptured, but by being kept. We might go through all the writers of the New Testament, and we would fail to discover any indication of the so-called “two-stages” of our Lord’s Coming. Peter, James and John tell the same story. There is no Scripture for a pre-tribulation rapture. That theory had to be invented by man. Search and see. There is no verse in the Bible that even mentions it. I discovered that nearly all evangelical missionary leaders believe that there must be representatives in the Church of Christ from every tribe, kindred, tongue and nation, and not just from the so-called civilized world, and that, therefore, the only way to hasten the Coming of Christ is by evangelizing the remaining unreached peoples of earth. Jesus made it perfectly clear when He said, “the gospel must first be published among all nations” (Mark 13:10) “and then shall the end come” (Matt. 24:14). Hence, the greatest incentive to missionary work is the Second Coming of Christ. Spiritual Preparedness I am sure that with the true child of God it is not a question of preference but of truth. Does God’s Word say so? Why then rebel? Is not His plan best? Besides, what difference does it make so long as we are ready? “Spiritual Preparedness” is the only important factor after all. I wonder if we have been lulling the Church into a false security? Can it be that we have been preaching an easy escape? Ought we to prepare the Church for the greatest of all ordeals? Should not our teaching harden her for the fires of the Tribulation? What kind of soldiers are we training? I am afraid that we have been very guilty and that God will certainly hold us responsible for the type of Christian our preaching is producing. We need men and women today of the martyr spirit. The test of the Inquisition is coming again and woe betide the premillennialists who are not ready. The Church must be purified in the fires of persecution. Voices of Others Now if I were to go into the subject in detail and attempt to deal with the numerous passages, both for and against, I would simply be overlapping. Others have already done this most ably, far better than I can, and so, if you are really interested, I would suggest that you secure the books that have been written on the subject and study them prayerfully and with an open mind before taking sides. A great many have been written by men on both sides of the Atlantic. The following are among the best that have been published in Great Britain and you may procure most of them from: THE SOVEREIGN GRACE, ADVENT TESTIMONY, I DONALD WAY, CHELMSFORD, ESSEX, CM2 9JB, The organization that publishes the Post-Tribulation magazine Watching and Waiting. Send for their catalogue. Here are the books: Will the Church Escape the Great Tribulation? (by Edmund Shackleton); Christ’s Second Coming (by S. P. Tregelles) [these two are scarce]; Our Lord Cometh (by W. J. Rowlands); The Coming of the Son of Man (by Rev. E. J. Poole-Connor); The Second Advent of our Lord, Not Secret, but in Manifested Glory (by B. W. Newton); One Second Coming of Christ (by W. J. Rowlands); The First Resurrection (by S. P. Tregelles); Touching the Coming of the Lord (by Dan Crawford); The Saints’ Rest and Rapture (by Frank H. White); The Second Coming of Christ (by George Muller). The following have been published in North America: The Blessed Hope (by Professor George E. Ladd). Dr. Ladd teaches in Fuller Theological Seminary, Pasadena. It is a masterly volume and it goes into both the history and doctrine of both the Pre-Tribulation and the Post-Tribulation Advent. “Will Christ’s Coming he in two stages?” (by Norman F. Douty). I have a list of nearly seventy Bible Teachers who have proclaimed this view of the Return of Christ. Among them, in addition to those who have written the above books, there are such names as W. J. Erdman, Charles R. Erdman. Dr. Campbell Morgan, Bishop Frank Houghton, Dr. A. B. Simpson, Dr. J. W. Thirtle, Dr. Charles T. Cook, Alexander Reese, Dr. Horatius Bonar, Dr. Adolph Saphir, Henry Varley, Dr. Nathaniel West, David Baron, H. W. Soltau, Dr. Bergin, Dr. Harold J. Ockenga, and many others. To ignore the convictions of such spiritual leaders is impossible. Deference must be given to their views. These views I would sum up by quoting from Watching and Waiting “We believe that this was the teaching of our Lord and His Apostles. We believe it was held by the Early Church and by all in the Middle Ages who had any light on the Second Advent. We believe, too, that it was the teaching of the Early Brethren and that no other view was generally accepted among them until the Any Moment. Secret Rapture, Pre-Tribulation, or Two-Stage Coming theory was taught by Edward Irving, as a result of a vision received by a woman in his church. Thus Any Moment teaching is a “novel” doctrine”. My Final Appeal Beloved, the shadows are darkening. The day is drawing to a close. It is now Saturday night in the history of the Church. The times of the Gentiles have almost run their course. Events are fast shaping for the end. The Antichrist will soon be here. One fact and one only is important – Christ is coming. Of that there can be no doubt. One question and one only is vital – Are we ready? We may differ on minor details of prophecy. We may disagree as to the time of His Appearing. We may not see eye to eye regarding the order of prophetic events. But one thing is certain – He is coming. We will be with Him. The Millennium is at hand and soon now we shall know all. Therefore, let us love one another sincerely and labour together “till He Come”. If I am mistaken I will know it then. Hence, let us agree to disagree agreeably. God knows our hearts. He knows that we love Him and that is all that really matters. If I love Him and you love Him, we will love each other. Soon the day will break and all the shadows flee away. Meanwhile I am “looking for that blessed hope and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ” (Titus 2 :13).

Hi, I take it you were raised Catholic. No, you don't need to confess your sins to a priest. And you don't need to do any perfect act of contrition. When you confess your sins to God, believe on Christ as your own personal Savior...then you are totally forgiven and cleansed by the blood of Christ shed for us. Always remember 1 John 1:9.

Welcome, lunarose! God bless you! Are you attending a local church where you can connect to fellow believers? So many Christians nowadays seem to be eschewing that, and God commands us to do so for our sake. In times like these we should not try to go it alone. If you haven't already, please make every effort to find a local body of believers that you can connect with and fellowship with.

You have already sank to their level. You've said you feel hate, anger, irritation, and you return evil for evil. Think about what you've said. Now. How to fix it. [1.] You've said you've tried kindness and that you also return the irritation. That's a very mixed message indeed. So stop with the "getting them back" for their irritations. [2.] Don't engage in this game that they are playing with you. They enjoy seeing your be the odd man out. Ignore what can be ignored. Smile and take the conversation to something else. They should soon get the idea that you are not easily goaded anymore. It may stop. It may not. [3.] Have some compassion in your heart for these people who sound like that they are not saved. Pray for them regularly. [4.] Since this is a new job, you are the odd man out - the newbie. They should be treating you better. Perhaps they are just cliquish. Perhaps they are just mean-spirited. It wouldn't hurt to ask if you all could try and get along better. [5.] Keep every conversation and interaction professional. You don't have to pretend to be kind. They know you don't like them. What you do have to be is civil, professional, the adult in the room, the imitator of Christ in the room. [6.] If it gets too bad, don't feel like a "tattletale" if you have to go to the boss or the person who had enough faith to hire you and ask for advice on what to do. Tell them that you are not ratting anyone out and that you know these people won't change, but ask for a transfer or a different office or just help. [7.] This is going to take time. And work on your part.

No, you are not under his authority. He divorced you and married another woman. No, if you are not married to the man you are seeing now, your daughter is not under his authority and neither are you. And I beg you to study what "under his authority" means. It has no remote meaning to what your husband was incorrectly teaching you and belittling you with. Because at this point, he is NOT going to stop verbally abusing you and claiming that you are at fault in everything, you need to get counsel - legal and otherwise. Your husband has the wrong idea about what joint custody is. You will not be able to change his mind, but the courts can enforce it whether he likes it or not. You need counsel - spiritual and emotional - for yourself to crawl out from under the rat hole he dug for you and put you in before you let this new relationship go much further. You need to study the Bible for yourself, make sure your daughter is trained in it, and become a woman who can stand on her own two feet - in every way - but especially emotionally, spiritually, and mentally - before you let this new relationship go any further. Women who are abused verbally by ex-husbands tend to run to the exact same sort of man. I would have as little contact with him as possible. When dropping her off and picking her up from his house - unless there is an emergency, you don't have to speak a word. Don't remind him anymore about child support because he isn't going to do it because you remind him, and if he picks a fight with you, smile and say, "I'll see you next time when I drop our daughter off and walk away." Pray like mad for your ex-husband and his new wife and yourself and your daughter.

According to Jewish law these people were considered unclean and could not go into the Temple. For some it was like being excommunicated. This is not true in the New Testament. For instance in Acts 8:27-38 God went out of His way to send Philip to the Ethiopian Eunuch, who was then baptized.

Let us be sure we read all the verses that accompany this truly amazing revelation as to how we can really see ourselves changed into can His likeness. Here are the next verses found in 2 Peter 1: 5-10 As wonderful as the promises of God are, the Word of God is a two edged sword. Immediately following being told that it is through our believing the glorious promises that our God will not fail us in freeing us from the grip of the world, the flesh and the devil, a warning is added, and it is a sobering one. I will add no commentary here. We simply need to let the words of the apostle Peter sink into our hearts and not flee conviction if the Spirit brings it. God only wants to bless us. And beside this, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue; and to virtue knowledge; And to knowledge temperance; and to temperance patience; and to patience godliness; And to godliness brotherly kindness; and to brotherly kindness charity. For if these things be in you, and abound, they make you that ye shall neither be barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ.” But he that lacketh these things is blind, and cannot see afar off, and hath forgotten that he was purged from his old sins. Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall: 2 Peter 1:5-10 Blessings, Gideon

This is the last verse in a paragraph beginning in verse 1. Jesus is teaching not to be so hard-hearted as to judge people's relationship with God with a measuring stick that even YOU won't pass. He says not to be hypocritical and demand that others straighten up when we have and our sinful issues that we ignore. He is chastising the believer for not being humble and loving towards others who may not believe. THEN, on the other hand, believers cannot be door mats. "That which is holy" and "pearls" are the gospel giving to the non-believer. The dogs and the pigs are those non-believers who only hate and tear down. We must acknowledge that sometimes a non-believer is only there to mock, ridicule, blaspheme, and tear down the gospel. We are to understand where the dividing line is. King Solomon gave two proverbs about that. "Do NOT answer a fool according to his folly......" and "Do answer a fool according to his folly...." Believers MUST let go to sinful judging of others [not judging in general but judging that produces no fruit] and to lovingly present the gospel. They must also know when to walk away.

Matthew 10:34 "Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword." The peace that comes on the earth is a false peace, but the sword of the Lord is a two edged sword, it is the tongue of Jesus Christ. That sword that is given here is our entire Bible, and that Word shall not be compromise with any part of humans unjust judgments. Jesus is telling us that when something comes in your life that seems unjust, and we have been compromising with Satan, it is what we should expect. Jesus came to bring the sword of truth, as spelled out in His Holy Word. He spoke it in person, and He wrote it through the prophets. That is the thing that He brought to us, and we can see the fulfillment of that Word. Matthew 10:35 "For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in law." The variance comes into being when there is a difference between what the father's traditions teach, and his son following of what the Word of God has to say. When there is a difference in what the family members believe, then there will be discourse in the household. There are two different natures in these individuals, and two different frames of mind. Man's word changes every day, and so does the vocabulary of the traditions also change. Those changes are what is accepted as sin, and the standards that modern man lives by. However, God Word is fixed, and unchanging. It was the same yesterday, as it is today, and will be at the end of this earth age. Matthew 10:36 "And a man's foes shall be they of his own household." Matthew 10:37 "He that loveth father or mother more than me is not worthy of me: and he that loveth son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me." The comparison is not whether you love or do not love your family members, but whether they take priority over Christ and His work. Your worthiness to Christ is to what degree that you put His work over the wants of your family. Your family can turn on you, but God will never turn on you. Matthew 10:38 "And he that taketh not his cross, and followeth after me, is not worthy of me." Your cross is what you take when you expect to be crucified on it. In other words, what you are going to do daily for Christ, you would be willing to die for that cause. Don't take this statement too lightly. You pick up your cross when you are studying God's Word, then to what point are willing to die for that Word? Take it seriously enough that if you are delivered up, that would be your state of mind. https://www.theseason.org/nt.htm

You raise an excellent set of questions. When Jesus said that he came to bring division or to divide, he is talking to his disciples that he is about to send out. He tells them about the persecution that they will face. [verses 16-18] That they will be given what to say when they are arrested. [verses 19-20] That this hatred and persecution will come even from family members! [verses 21-23] That they must expect all of this because they, as disciples are not above their master. [verses 24-25] That they cannot be afraid, but to be bold. God is only one to fear. And he takes care of all the little things and will take care of them. [verses 26-31] And finally if that ARE afraid and deny Christ that he will deny those that do this. [verses 32-33] Your question is about his next statement - the division. Jesus is telling them that these division are going to occur - some will accept Christ, some will reject Christ - and that this will be hard and even divide family members apart. And he explains in explicit terms that our following him may cause these divisions. For example, my own cousin-in-law was cut off from her family when she gave her life to Christ and married a Christian man. They spat on her and ran her from their lives. If my cousin has allowed her love of her family to make her say, "OK, I won't become a Christian because my family will hate me.", then she would have never been saved. Our love for Christ must come before anything and anyone - even the people we love the most.

Description from the ministry on this man's testimony: "Gay to Christian Testimony - Homosexuality Was My Identity Becket spent over 25 years pursuing the desires we all desperately want as human beings: relationships, love, intimacy, support, and affirmation. Undeniably, these desires had a unique grip on his heart that was incomparable to any other desire. They carried with them emotions that vastly impacted his will, intentions, and actions and became a unique part of his identity.The problem with this is that he was not created to have an identity rooted in sexual orientation or human relationships. No one is. We were created to have an identity rooted in God. If that's off, all of our desires are off and we find ourselves chasing things that we were never supposed to pursue. Homosexual relationships are one of those things. It stands contrary to God's moral will for mankind. But we don't have to stand as enemies of God. Through Jesus Christ, there is hope for new life. There is hope for salvation. Becket's story portrays this truth with such kindness and from an intimate understanding of your life experiences, thoughts, and desires. May you see his love for you, God's love for you, as you watch it. Regardless of what you have done in your life, redemption is provided to you through Jesus Christ. Just like Becket, even if you have found your identity in worthless things, God died for you. He can make you a new creation and save you from a terrible fate if you call out to Him. If you are broken over your sin, call out to God in repentance and faith in Jesus Christ that He will redeem you."

It is good for me to see, that at least a few, are regularly participating, and I notice that people are still joining.

I don't know, I can tell you that I read several. I use the NIV some, because it is the standard bible at our church. It is not my favorite, as I prefer literalness over easy reading. That being said, the Zondervan NIV study bible, is very, very good, makes up for the shortcomings of the NIV itself. I much more literal that the NIV, is the ESV. It is also pretty easy to read. There too, the ESV Study Bible, is excellent. My favorite version, as a translation, is the NASB. I like it for it's faithfulness the the original languages. I read the KJV also, more because I actually like the olde English a bit. It is was just plain English, back in the day, but it sounds lofty and reverent to modern ears - just a psychological thing, but I enjoy it, never-the-less. Edit: Oops, I guess I already said all of that in the first post!

.Thought I would offer this, since it comes up from time to time. This is not at all unique to me nor even an unusual understanding, and shared here because other understandings can be very stressful, and even if they were to be true, they would be of little or no use. Some wonder if they have committed blasphemy of the Holy Spirit. The concern comes from this passage: 30 “Whoever is not with me is against me, and whoever does not gather with me scatters. 31 And so I tell you, every kind of sin and slander can be forgiven, but blasphemy against the Spirit will not be forgiven. 32 Anyone who speaks a word against the Son of Man will be forgiven, but anyone who speaks against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven, either in this age or in the age to come. There we see that there is a sin, a type pf blasphemy which will never be forgiven, a very sobering thought. It seems to me, that a look at the context of these verses, may help us to understand what is going on. 23 Then they brought him a demon-possessed man who was blind and mute, and Jesus healed him, so that he could both talk and see. 233 All the people were astonished and said, “Could this be the Son of David?” 24 But when the Pharisees heard this, they said, “It is only by Beelzebul,the prince of demons, that this fellow drives out demons.” That name there (Beelzebul) comes from a transliteration of the Hebrew "Baal Zebub" or "Baʿal Zəvûv ", which occurs in 2 Kings, chapter 1. There he is referred to as the god of Ekron. Baal, meaning lord or god, and Zebub, meaning "of flies" or "of fliers". Common belief was that demons, and angels, had wings. The lord of the flying ones (demons) would of course, be Satan. The name Baal Zebub, is the name of a Philistine god. This is what is in the minds of Jesus' critics in verse 24. So, just before Jesus said that there is a sin which is not forgiven, we have the Pharisees saying that it is by the power of Satan, that Jesus was able to cast out demons. Since it was the power of God that Jesus did His miracles, these Pharisees were in essence, saying that the Holy Spirit was an unholy spirit, Satan himself. From this we see what is so blasphemous. Some will say, that the only unforgivable sin, is dying without having accepted Jesus as Lord. I understand their thinking, and certainly they are right that those who refuse God's grace, will not be forgiven, but I think their understanding is a bit off. Dying is not a sin, so dying without accepting Jesus, is not the unforgivable sin. The text says, all manners of sin, except one, will be forgiving. What is important, is that any sin, separates us from God, and we are destined for eternal separation from God, if our sins are not forgiven. So, looking back at the text again we see: every kind of sin can be forgiven, except one, blasphemy against the Spirit. It says nothing about dying, it does not even mention faith, though faith is missing from those who blaspheme. it simply says there is only one sin, a specific blasphemy, which will never be forgiven. So, while it is true that refusing Jesus all ones life is an eternal death sentence (in as much as all sinners are already headed for destruction apart from God's saving grace), repentance is possible the whole time until we run our to time, when life ends. It is remarkable, and reassuring even, that the test says that we can even speak against Jesus Himself, and still find forgiveness. The only unforgivable sin, according to Jesus, is to slander the Holy Spirit by equating Him with Satan. It seems likely, that we will never encounter a person who has committed the sin of blaspheming the Holy Spirit. God has a habit of searing the conscience (the Bible often calls this a hardened heart) of those who steadfastly refuse to accept Him. When a person comes to us, and expresses that they think they might have committed blasphemy of the Holy Spirit, chances are great, that this has not happened. This person is still concerned about the things of God, and is acknowledging His existence. That is a form of faith, even if that faith is weak, and underdeveloped, under exercised. If God has abandoned them, they would likely have ceased to be concerned about God. To worry about being unforgiven, is to acknowledge God is real, and that sin is real, and that the solution to the eternal consequences of sin, if found in the forgiveness of God. A person seeking God, seeking to please God does so, because the Spirit of God is drawing that person. No one comes to God, that the Spirit has not drawn first. John 6:44 “No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws them, and I will raise them up at the last day. I don't think that God is going to draw people to Himself, that He has no intention of forgiving, and the promise is that the one who comes to Him, He will raise up, on the last day. That promise does not have conditions or limitations. It is a sad thing, that some believers worry, are despndent, that they will be lost because they discovered this verse about unforgivable sin. If a person has truly come to God, they have been saved, and will not be lost - God does not take back, what He has given,and no one can snatch a beleiver out of His hands, God's grip if firm, no power in the universe, exceed His power, and His love is extreme towards those He treasures. 1 Cor 12:3 Therefore I want you to know that no one who is speaking by the Spirit of God says, “Jesus be cursed,” and no one can say, “Jesus is Lord,” except by the Holy Spirit.

TTTTTTT Ta Ta, Turkey Taco Thursday Thanksgiving Tomorrow.

FYI-no tacos tomorrow!

Glad to see you were able to distill all of that down to advice about taco eating. What would we do without you insight hmbld?

Don’t eat tacos while working?

I had two main reasons for joining this group. The first was to join in a group of people doing it and to have the mutual support and discussions. The second was that it seemed a reasonably good schedule to work on my intensive reading of the GNT and LXX. This group started about the exact time I was trying to figure out a good plan and timetable for doing this. However, I know myself very well and having a disciplined daily schedule does not usually work well for me. I'm just tossing out what I am doing in case it might be helpful and encouraging to anyone. I've found throughout my life that keeping a daily requirements schedule of any type quickly becomes a burden to worry about and feel guilty about when I fall behind, or whatever. Now, I know some people feel freed from worry by having a particular set of things to do and then just doing them. Not me. It usually becomes a ball and chain for me. Frankly, there is no way that I can keep to a year long daily schedule without it becoming a major burden to me at some point. Within the first few days, I was already starting to feel the pressure of things when we did some traveling and my schedule was disrupted. I thought about it, realized that being in this club was meant to be a blessing, and settled on the following approach. I'll be treating this as a weekly schedule which allows me to "get ahead" and "store up" my readings so that I'm not feeling the pressure of worrying about "failure" each day and then "owing" some readings to catch up. I'll be planning on getting the week's readings done on the first couple days, usually Wednesday and Thursday (or spilling over into Friday and Saturday if necessary). I'll then go back and do some more detailed study on things that caught my attention. A part of this for me is refining my understanding of Greek, so I'm re-reading and more deeply studying some passages. For example, this week I finished the readings on Wednesday and Thursday. Today (and probably tomorrow), I'm going back through the Psalm readings. I'm looking up various words I'm not familiar with, focusing on points of grammar, and then re-reading the Psalm until I feel like I can comfortably read it all, and then on to the next one. I also saw a few things in Luke that I want to go back and look at in more detail. Overall, doing this weekly schedule works to my strengths and plans. I like to feel ahead of things. I do not like feeling pressured to stay on schedule. I like to be able to have some time to stop and meditate about some things for a few days. I like to be able to study particular things in more depth. It helps meet my long range goals for improving my reading ability in Greek. So anyway, in case anyone is like me, figuring out some type of weekly schedule that allows you to get ahead or fit more readings onto a weekend or free day in the week might be an option rather than constantly feeling under pressure and feeling guilty about keeping the schedule.

I very much appreciate that you put the entire reading schedule out there. Thanks.

Hi Gandalf, I think your approach makes a lot of sense and in fact, I had people like you in mind, when I decided to post the whole yearly schedule. Thank you for your contributions, and for joining us, so that we all can encourage each other and remain accountable, not so much to each other, but to our intentions to be like the Bereans, searching the Bible daily.

Maybe you will be able to pick it up again from where you left off I was thinking of what a great gift that could be to do and pass on to kids someday. It would be great to see what stands out from year to year as notes are writetn through the reading.