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Saudi Arabia uses Crucifixion for severe punishment. Who would have thought in 21 Century Crucifixion would be a form of execution. https://www.yahoo.com/news/m/0e88ac09-68b9-3ab5-9749-9df6bd595fdb/saudi-arabia-carries-out-rare.html In Syria, it is said Christians are crucified by the Muslim brotherhood.

There are those who think that the Bible prohibits tatoos. The typically cite Lev 19:28: 26‘You shall not eat anything with the blood, nor practice divination or soothsaying.27‘You shall not round off the side-growth of your heads nor harm the edges of your beard. 28‘You shall not make any cuts in your body for the dead nor make any tattoo marks on yourselves: I am the LORD. Personally, I think if you look at the context, this is all in connection with idolotry, a tatoo of a cross would not fall into that category. You did not mention your age, the only reason I do, is because if you are a youngster, you should be in submission to you parents, and not do this if it goes against their wishes. Also, note, that there might be those who take offense at this, I do not mean the cross, there will always be those offended by the cross. Some people, however, are offended by tatoos. At the church I attend, a couple left, because the pastor got a Bible verse tatooed on his forearm. Perhap then, getting a tatoo, is an unloving, inconsiderate thing to do, if some find it offensive, though the tatoo itself may not be a problem, people reaction to tatoos could be. I suggest reading 1 Cor chapter 8 for relevance. You know, if you want a cross, you can always wear one, without inking your skin, just a thought. Edited after thought: Possible, it could fall under that category of vanity, as spoken to in 1 Pet 3: 3Your adornment must not be external—braiding the hair, and wearing gold jewelry, or putting on dresses; 4but let it be the hidden person of the heart, with the imperishable quality of a gentle and quiet spirit, which is precious in the sight of God. and 1 Tim 2: 9Likewise, I want women to adorn themselves with proper clothing, modestly and discreetly, not with braided hair and gold or pearls or costly garments, 10but rather by means of good works, as is proper for women making a claim to godliness.

Thank you!

The Byzantines were a Christian Empire and Civilization that began with Constantine The Great in 333 A.D. to 1204 A.D., with a resurgence in 1214 A.D. tell the total destruction of the Byzantine Empire by the Ottoman Empire in 29th of May, 1453 A.D. The Byzantines were a very sophisticated Christian Civilization with many texts revealing much about daily life, I recommend Anna Kommena's The Alexiad which is a history of Byzantium from a Byzantine Princess and 14 Byzantine Rulers by Psellus. The Byzantines were the most opulent Christian society to ever exist. Everything was blanketed in gold, and purple was the color of royalty, there literally was the term, "born in purple," where all royals were born in a purple room. The Byzantines also had a cruel side, removing eyes over offenses, and in many ways The Byzantines were Roman in their lusts, greed (avarice), and brutality. Anna Commena, Christian Byzantine Princess

Greetings in the name of the Lord Jesus Jesus Christ, I have some worthwhile observations from my journey to eschatological truth. Daniel’s Seventieth Week is not equal to the Day of the LORD The use of the phrase “Tribulation Period” to refer to the seventieth week of Daniel has caused much confusion. While it is true that wars, famines, pestilence (Matt 24:6-7, Rev 6:1-6) will be on the increase after the seventieth week begins, there is no mention of any uniqueness of the conditions present upon the earth until Satan and his angels are cast out of heaven (Rev 12:7-12) and the Antichrist begins to persecute Israel (Rev 12:13) and the elect (Matt 24:21-22) both of which take place 3½ years into the seven-year period. By calling the seventieth week “The Tribulation” it has morphed into the unparalleled period which the prophets called the “Day of the LORD.” Most pre-tribbers view the Day of the LORD as beginning when “the prince that shall come” confirms the covenant with many (Israel) initiating the last seven years of this age (Daniel 9:27). It is true that the confirmation of a covenant by the Antichrist shall begin the seventieth week, but with absolute certainty, I can say that the Day of the LORD does not begin at that time. When does the Day of the LORD begin? The Day of the LORD is spoken of all throughout the Scriptures, in fact, more than any other event. It is the day of God’s fierce wrath. I do not believe there is any debate at all concerning this fact, because it is spoken of so often. It truly is the day of God’s wrath. All the debate centres around when it begins and how long it lasts. For me, the timing of the Day of the LORD was the most important thing to grasp in determining the position of the rapture in relation to the events of the seventieth week. You see like many other pre-trib teachers I had concluded, without all due scholarship mind you, that the Day of the LORD began when the seventieth week began. This was accomplished with some circular reasoning that went like this: The Day of the Lord is a day of God’s wrath. In a future time, God’s wrath will be poured out upon the Earth. As Jesus opens the seals in Revelation 6, John sees war, famine, pestilence, and death. Since the death appears to come to one-quarter of the earth; this must be God’s wrath. So, the Day of the LORD must start at the beginning of the seven years because that's when the seals begin to be opened by Jesus Himself. That all seems logical and straightforward especially when one is trying to read the pre-trib position into the text. The bad thing is that the Scriptures plainly tell us when the day of the LORD begins and no amount of deduction, whether circular or not, is necessary. The Day of the LORD is preceded by the sun, moon, and stars going dark Joel tells us of a unique celestial or cosmic event that serves to indicate that the Day of the LORD is impending, meaning its arrival is at hand. Joe 2:31 The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before the great and the terrible day of the LORD come. The eschatological Day of the LORD is associated with the sun, moon, and stars going dark. Peter even quotes Joel: Act 2:20 The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before that great and notable day of the Lord come: These celestial signs are prominent in many of the passages detailing this future day. Isa 13:9 Behold, the day of the LORD cometh, cruel both with wrath and fierce anger, to lay the land desolate: and he shall destroy the sinners thereof out of it. Isa 13:10 For the stars of heaven and the constellations thereof shall not give their light: the sun shall be darkened in his going forth, and the moon shall not cause her light to shine. Isa 13:11 And I will punish the world for their evil, and the wicked for their iniquity; and I will cause the arrogancy of the proud to cease, and will lay low the haughtiness of the terrible. Notice how Jesus uses these celestial markers to signal His return to gather his elect and make war upon the unbelieving world. Mat 24:29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: Mat 24:30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. Mat 24:31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other. John also sees and describes this sign after the opening of the sixth seal. Rev 6:12 And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood; Rev 6:13 And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind. Rev 6:14 And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places. Rev 6:15 And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains; Rev 6:16 And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb: Rev 6:17 For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand? Notice that Jesus said the sign of the sun, moon, and stars going dark comes “immediately after the tribulation of those days” (Matt 24:29). The tribulation in context are those of the “great tribulation” (Matt 24:21). Let Jesus be praised.

There are two things a Taqiyya Muslim (infiltrator) cannot lie about a) Muhammad is God’s prophet and Allah is One. If you talk about Muhammad thinking the angel was a Jinn (evil spirit) In the First Hadith, I watched a so called convert to Eastern Orthodox Christianity convulse ansd suddenly defend Islam ardently. His cover was blown when I touched on the two things no Muslim can lie about: Muhammad is God’s prophet and Allah is One. If you ask a Morisco or doubtful convert from Islam to confess Muhammad is a false prophet (Matthew 24:24) and that Allah is not one but is Baal who is Satan (Satan started the first war in heaven, he invented war, see Revelation 12:1-12) and that the True God is Three: Father, Son, and Holy Spirit who is One God, you will discover quickly if they are true covert. The Q’uran states no Muslim can say Muhammad is a false prophet or deny that Allah is One even in Taqiyya. By the way, shouting from minarets in Arabic, the Call to Prayer says, “God is not a Father, Hod is not a Son, and God is not a Spirit.” (Translated by Arabic teacher and friend). Obviously the opposite of our confession that God if Father, Son, and Holy Spirt, One God in three persons. Amen. It’s imperative to get a Muslim covert to confess Jesus is God not Allah, and that God is three and one (Genesis 18:1-11) and Muhammad is a false prophet. If a Muslim does not confess Allah is One and Muhammad is his prophet, they guaranteed hell. So this is how you expose an infiltrator. I’ve done it more subtly by sharing Mohammed thought his Revelation was a lie from a Jinn (First Hadith).

My first encounter with tongues was in 2004, when I gave my life to Jesus. First let me lay some background. Before I knew the Lord I was deep in the occult, hooked on every drug that has a name, and running from God. He was chasing me and I knew it, but I was still running. One night, I was all alone and I started telling God off, I shouted question after question, even cussing him out with things I blamed him. The next day my sister made me go to church with her. I get there and have to sit in the front because my sister was best friends with the pastor. The worship started and I started to feel something I've never felt before, it was like love and peace became tangible and was giving me a hug. Then, I had an intense anger raise up in me and I heard a voice in my head saying, "I will not give my life to Jesus!!!" It was the first time I realized this wasn't even my thought. I had a demon inside me and this was the first time I felt disconnected from it. All of a sudden the lady on the worship team locked eyes with me and started shouting something in tongues and what ever she said, I was in snot and tears, the demon was ripped out of me and I was shaking and trembling under the intense power of God. Afterword the pastor came up and said, "I feel like the Lord wants me to change my sermon" and preached on everything I shouted at God. I gave my life to Jesus that night. The tongues was never interpreted, but the impact on my life gave enough interpretation. The next day I was searching through scripture and found 1 Corinthians 12-14. I read it and prayed, "Lord you say ask and it will be given to me, seek and I will find, knock and the door will be open, so I ask for the gift of tongues. A few seconds later my tongue started moving and then when I spoke a whole language came out. I've been praying the same language for the last 14 years, and has been a precious gift that draws my heart closer to the Lord in worship. Tongues for me is like downloading something off the internet, if you open the file mid way and just see coding, you have no clue what the full download will look like. When we pray in tongues, our spirit prays and things get downloaded into our spirit that will then manifest in our lives whether it be a deeper understanding of scripture and the nature of God, personal breakthrough and victory, wisdom to pour out and help a friend. The more I pray in tongues the more I see divine encounters line up. I believe when we pray in tongues, we are praying the perfect will of God. 1 Corinthians 14:2 For he who speaks in a tongue does not speak to men but to God, for no one understands him; however, in the spirit he speaks mysteries.

I get prayer reports/letters including Muslim countries. Many Muslims are now turning to Christ. Christians help them in the overcrowded refugee camps and are kind to them, so they are touched and want to know about our Christian faith. They accept Bibles and read them. They look forward to the missionaries' visits. Also, some Muslims from war-torn countries are disillusioned with Islam because of Muslim terrorists destroying their homes, towns, countries, bombing mosques, suicide bombers, etc. So don't forget to reach out if you have a Muslim neighbor. You never know if that person will be open to hearing about Christ. Also, I've heard that Muslims are taught wrongly about what Christians are like. So meeting real Christians and seeing what we are like... perhaps then they will question if they have been taught wrongly in other matters, like about the Christian faith. Just some thoughts... Also, there are many Muslims having visions of Jesus and then becoming Christians.

I have chosen not to put this in the Eschatology section, because I beleive it is good for general discussion. Many believers have "Apocalyptic Blues." Between all the Pre-Millienial, Amillienial, Post Millienal, Pre-Trib, Mid-Trib, Post-Trib, Partial Trib and etc; many are overwhelemed. Well this thread isnt' about that. It is about the fact that Apocalypse in the Greek means "Unvieling." Unvieling of the Bride of Christ! (Revelation 19:1-11). Our main problem in the end times discussions is we focus on the details of how it will play out, this has merit, we need to know the times and signs, but we must always fix our eyes on Jesus (Hebrewes 12:2). The truth is for us Christians, the Apocalypse is the Wedding Supper, and Christ is coming to collect us His bride (Matthew 24:39-5, 1 Thessalonains 4:16-17) to be with Him forever (Revelation 21:1-53). The focus shoudl be Christ and Him coming, our Bridegroom and God coming to get us His bride! It is the best romantic story ever, it beats Nicholas Sparks! For the sparks of Jesus' fire eyes is His passion and love for you; He burns to be with us and love us with same ferocity He had on the cross! It's time to get excited! To pray Jesus come quickly, "Thy Kingdom Come," and "The Bride says come! Yes, Come Lord Jesus." (Revelation 22:1-20). Let us fix our eyes on our coming Bridegroom, our King of Kings, and Everlastin Father. Amen,.

Atheists and other Christian-bashers love to claim that the story of Jesus was stolen from Pagan religions, but nothing could be further from the truth. It is more likely that Pagan myths were later twisted to form a counterfeit of Christianity:

Indeed, I am saddened when people trample the Blood of Christ and Christ under foot , “anyone who thinks they can be saved by the works of the law is cut off from Christ, you have fallen from grace,” (Galatians 5:4), “Notice, it is I, Paul, who tells you that if you receive circumcision [as a supposed requirement of salvation], Christ will be of no benefit to you [for you will lack the faith in Christ that is necessary for salvation],” (Galatians 5:2), “4 It is impossible for those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, who have shared in the Holy Spirit, 5 who have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the coming age 6 and who have fallen away, to be brought back to repentance. To their loss they are crucifying the Son of God all over again and subjecting him to public disgrace.” (Hebrews 6:4-6). In context Hebrews 6:5-6 is those who knowing Christ and the Spirit go back to laws of Judaism to be saved (Galatians 5:4).

Quite a bit of discussion going on since I last read the posts here! You can call me simple but I have never brought up or condemned the Quran or Muslim beliefs to my friends. Instead I initially told them of how I was saved through Christ and found peace with God. Then afterwards whenever an opportunity occurs, I try to quote what Jesus said or mention what Jesus teaches about the subject or problem. I try with the Lord's help to lift up Jesus, rather than attacking someone's beliefs. If they ask me about their beliefs, then I would tell them the truth. But I think if you start out attacking someone's beliefs right away, it doesn't do any good...instead lift up Jesus and His salvation. Also, of course, we should let our lights shine as Jesus taught us. Christian love is essential to reach anyone....we are to love all people. On another subject, I don't remember his name, but even a former terrorist is now a Christian and has a ministry.

Moses was Proto-Christ or foreshadowing but not the one who castes the shadow, “These are a shadow of the things to come, but the body that casts it belongs to Christ.” (Colossians 2:17). However, he failed and disobeyed God (Numbers 20), while Christ was and is the Lord God Come in the flesh and never disobeyed, “though He was a Son, yet He learned obedience by the things which He suffered,” (Hebrews 5:8) not doc He sin like Moses, “Therefore, since we have a great high priest who has ascended into heaven, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold firmly to the faith we profess. For we do not have a high priestwho is unable to empathize with our weaknesses, but we have one who has been tempted in every way, just as we are—yet he did not sin.” (Hebrews 4:15-15).

I think what it all comes down to is God dose not fit inside a box. I think God calls people to witness for him in different ways. We are all different. What works on one person may not work for someone else. To command that everybody much witness to everyone using the same method puts God inside a box. The best thing we can do is listen to how the Spirit is leading us. This maybe through educating ourselves. Or it maybe through kindness. Or many many other ways. (I know this is poorly written as I did not sleep well last night so I am a bit off. But I hope you get my meaning)

I suppose that I should clarify. It's my fault for not fully explaining what I meant. Sometimes I have something in my head and don't put all the details down which can cause confusion. I am speaking in terms of Christians who are weak. Weak because they do not give credit to the veracity of the devil's temptations and how he plays that vile game. Weak because they do not know the way of escape because they do not read the Bible. And because they do not pray enough. No sane Christian wakes up and says, "I'll start sending naked pictures of myself to my colleague who I think is cute." That's the pinnacle - the end result of a journey void of taking sin seriously. Maybe it began with eating lunch alone together or flirting or texting knock-knock jokes to each other or texting during a staff meeting and making fun of a presenter who speaks too long. No sane Christians wakes up and says, "I'll solicit a prostitute today." "I'll beat my kid black and blue today." "I'll spread some really nasty gossip that I heard to as many as I can today." The traps of sin are presented to us as beneficial to us. The promises of power, or gain, or pleasure, or all the empty promises the devil makes are packaged in a pretty bow of charm and allurement. We can't conquer what we don't acknowledge. Amasa did not acknowledge the dagger in Joab's hand. He fell for the friendly voice saying, "Hello brother, how are things with you?" And he fell for the kiss of greeting. Christians need to sharpen their discernment of what evil is around them, their families, their churches, and their communities. Too many Christians fall hard and fall terribly because they are walking around with rose-colored glasses.

Amen. It reminds us that Jesus will never change, nor will His love for us (John 3:16, Romans 8:38-39) His forgiveness (1 John 2:1-4), or His compassion for us (Hebrews 4:15).

A MOVING POEM ABOUT OUR WONDERFUL SAVIOR... EACH LINE WORTH MEDITATING UPON. The Maker of the universe The Maker of the universe, as man for man was made a curse. The claims of law which He had made, unto the uttermost He paid. His holy fingers made the bough which grew the thorns that crowned His brow. The nails that pierced His hands were mined in secret places He designed. He made the forest whence there sprung the tree on which His body hung. He died upon a cross of wood, yet made the hill on which it stood. The sky that darkened o’er His head, by Him above the earth was spread. The sun that hid Him from God’s face, by His decree was poised in space. The spear which spilled His precious blood was tempered in the fires of God. The grave in which His form was laid was hewn in rocks His hands had made. The throne on which He now appears was His from everlasting years. But a new glory crowns His brow, and every knee to Him shall bow. –F.W. Pitt NOTE: PHIL KEAGGY SET THIS POEM TO A GENTLE ACOUSTIC MELODY. My favorite version is the one on YouTube that says below it in its description: A visual depiction of Phil Keaggy's "The Maker of the Universe".

FresnoJoe was in the hospital for 14 days, but he's returned home. He's recovering but he's doing okay! God bless, George

The truly sad aspect of eternal security is 'all' who mix works mix works into the reasoning of their salvation have foundation-ed themselves in things that pass away 2 Peter 3:10-11 10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up. 11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness, KJV the pure vestige of righteousness is not found in the place where we have began nor in ourselves... but is in fact in God The Son Who is without sin Rom 3:22-26 22 Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference: 23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God; 24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus: 25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God; 26 To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus. KJV Satan knows the only power he holds is of this place Eph 2:2 2 Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience: KJV and those who have only been born of here thus works of this place performed in the power of first born essence are seen here: John 3:3-7 3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God. 4 Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born? note: clearly he is reasoning from the first birth principles that pass away... the absence of s/Spiritual directives clearly seen! 5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. 6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. 7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again. KJV Those of us who have been born from above have the wonderful reliance on Christ Alone as our righteousness for we know He 'IS' The Accepted One, by resurrection, Who bore our sin upon Himself and the acceptance of The God Head of the imputation of His righteousness upon all who come to Him in full repentance and are granted new birth.... works of any kind show forth a danger of those lacking this full repentance and are still clinging to things that will pass away... God's Word will be fulfilled to the Nth degree and it is written 2 Cor 5:17-21 17 Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new. 18 And all things are of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ, and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation; 19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation. 20 Now then we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God did beseech you by us: we pray you in Christ's stead, be ye reconciled to God. 21 For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him. KJV The actual eternal state of exist Revelation 22 will be the Nth degree I speak of and there will exist nothing of any form of what was... for Rev 21:5-7 5 And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful. 6 And he said unto me, It is done. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end. I will give unto him that is athirst of the fountain of the water of life freely. 7 He that over cometh shall inherit all things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son. KJV This makes impossible works reliant in any form as eternal perspective...

badjao33 you clearly are a social justice warrior type who has been indoctrinated to believe that all other cultures and religions are good and white European culture is bad.. You are consistent in your stances in the political topics on this forum and now in carries over to the religious topics.. I matters not one jot what 95% of muslims believe about their religion.. islam is not what muslims believe it is.. islam is what the quran and accepted hadiths say it is and the majority of muslims do not know what the quran and hadiths teach.. And no i do not trust i iota in what the professors at supposed ""christian universities"" say.. Most of them are closet anti-christan atheists anyway and as indoctrinated as you are in the Social justice warrior cultural marxism post modern lies that you seem to be caught up in.. So please don't try to push your anti white pro islam brain washing upon me.. I know too much to be swayed by such propaganda.. extremists terrorists are not extremists at all the are devout true muslims carrying out the teachings of the quran and the accepted hadiths.. just because the true muslim population only makes up a very small percentage of the populations makes no difference.. Only a small percentage of the identified ""christian"" population are true Christians, most of those christians are traitors to the Word of God..

Right. Christians can not lose their salvation. The question is who is a Christian? Another question is how does a person make sure that he is reborn again? One thing if people say that he is reborn which is more reliable but not absolutely. Another thing is when a person feels that he is reborn and that is a subjective evaluation. Many people see things. For some people it is easy to say that they are reborn. I will not argue with them. Nor will I demand any proof. But honestly are all those who say they are reborn really reborn? It is easier with saints. Some people just seek "easy religion" when they say I love... I recognize... and so on and then finally say that they will be saved with a guarantee. Some say they have a special connection with Jesus and so on. Did anyone find out at least approximately how many Christians are there among those who call themselves Christians? What do you think?

Moral of the story... Don't mess with a cows pasture.. Because cows get Moooody about it.. ?

you know what i find funny. I'm being called a legalist and saying I'm putting chains and what not. and all I'm doing is simply quoting what Jesus said directly-save for fornication . these guys are actually adding their slant to it by saying he used this word which when you go back to the root Greek it says ....... and when you go back to the root it means..... which can also be applied to........ therefore this one simple straight forward statement actually has a far broader scope than it obviously does. And that Jesus didn't mean it to everyone but the Jews, which thebible in no way says. That basically legalism too. but in this case,they're subtracting rules rather than adding. which arguably is worse.

Indeed. In Exodus 24 God wanted to wed himself to Israel but she refused. Then He came in flesh and wed himself to all who will believe in Him on the cross. It is a true story & love story from Genesis to Revelation.

I will go to a different website.

Yes, Saudi uses crucifixtion as a punishment for making war upon Allah and his messenger as per the Islamic Sharia upon which Saudi law is based upon.

The Holy Spirit is not the restrainer,Michael is. II Thessalonians 2:1 "Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him," The subject is our gathering to Christ. II Thessalonians 2:2 "That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand." II Thessalonians 2:3 "Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;" What day...? Our gathering to Christ,correct? II Thessalonians 2:4 "Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God." The "Son of perdition" is Satan and Isaiah just told us this very same thing. Remember, the temple of God is on mount Zion, and "on the side of the North". This person sitting there is sitting in God's seat, pretending to be God: "Showing himself that he is God." Do you know what Jesus said about this very thing. Jesus called it in Matthew 24:15, the very same thing that Daniel called it in Daniel 9:27; "the Abomination of desolation". A more correct translation in the "James Moffatt translation Bible" is called "The abomination by the desolator". "Satan claiming to be God" is the abomination, and "he" [Satan] is the desolator, for the entire world will believe him; except for God's elect, and all those who have the seal of God in their minds [foreheads]. The sealed of God have their gospel armor on, and they are ready to face Satan and his system in the spiritual warfare. Does the "rapture theory" still look inviting to you? If it does, friend, your in a heap of trouble. This is not me talking, but Paul; for he is warning you to be watching out for the Antichrist, for he is a copy of exactly what you expect of Christ. The Antichrist [Satan] will have supernatural powers, and he will come first, before our Lord Jesus Christ. We are given the exact time of the Antichrist's arrival upon the earth in Revelation 9:1. It is at the sounding of the FIFTH TRUMPET. The trumpets are sounded in order, and the fifth trumpet is prior to the seventh. It can't be that hard to understand. Satan will be God to all the people of the world, including all Christians who do NOT have the seal of God in their minds [foreheads], to know the truth. The fall is because they will not take the simplicity and understanding in which Christ taught. The whole purpose for Paul to write the II Thessalonians letter, was to warn that church, as well as the churches of today, of the errors in teaching that others were making of his first letter. Don't expect Christ's return to soon, for these things of II Thessalonians 2:1-4 must take place first. II Thessalonians 2:5 "Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things?" Paul is again reminding them. II Thessalonians 2:6 "And now ye know what withholdeth [that which restraineth to the end] that he might be revealed in his time [own season]." "And now", is Paul's reminder to them that they did talk about this when he was with them in person. Who then is this one that would "be revealed in his time?" The subject here is "the son of perdition", Satan, the Antichrist, or what ever name you desire to use for him. He is Satan, and Satan will commit the "abomination of desolation" of Daniel 9:27; and the church will be here to see it, because the "gathering", or Christ's return follows this. II Thessalonians 2:7 "For the mystery of iniquity [lawlessness] doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way." There is no mystery around when this will take place, for we will know his methods of operation [withholdeth], and the signs, the seasons, and the times of Satan's arrival to earth. If you are in the Word of God and not following these "one verse preachers", you will know when to expect the Antichrist. You will also know within hours of when to expect our Lord Jesus Christ's return. Satan's reign on earth is not seven years because God reduced that time to five months for the "elect's" sake, as Jesus told us in Matthew 24:22. Jesus also revealed that the time is shortened to five months, to John in Revelation 9:5, and 10. The "mystery of lawlessness" is the mystery of iniquity. "He who now letteth will let"; in the Greek should be translated; "He who holds fast [ketcho] will stand." The ellipsis, or "omission from an expression of a word clearly implied"; "There is one who hold's fast", instead of by repeating the verb, "will let". However, "katecho" is a transitive verb, and an object must be supplied also. So if the subject in verse six is Satan, then the object must be his position in the heavenlies [see Ephesians 6:12], from which he will be ejected from heaven by Michael [Revelation 12:7-9]. "Out of the way", in the Greek is "out of ek", or "the midst". It is the same expression used in Acts 17:33, and I Corinthians 5:2. Many "rapture theorists" claim this one who "letteth" is the Holy Spirit, and they claim that when He is "taken away", then the Antichrist will come. By reversing the role of the characters in the verses here, and attributing what is Satan's to the Holy Spirit, you have a whole new doctrine called the "Any moment doctrine". This false doctrine is better known as the "rapture theory". It is dangerous to play around with a foreign language; and when the flock relies upon their shepherd for the truth, and the shepherd is assumed to be correct; in ignorance it is accepted just because he said it. It is Michael who "holds fast" on to Lucifer [the Antichrist], and Michael will continue to keep Lucifer held until the appointed time, spoken of above. That time is appointed by God. Then at the appointed time God will give Satan the keys [authority] to release his fallen angels and they will be cast to the earth [see Revelation 9:1-10]. Let's take a look at the one [Michael] who holds on to Satan now. Revelation 12:7; "And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels," Michael [that is who the "he" is in II Thessalonians 2:7 and his [Michael's] angels fought against the dragon [another name for Satan] and his [Satan's] fallen angels. Revelation 12:8; "And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven." This war took place in heaven, and that is where Satan and his angels are now; though Satan's spirit, and demonic spirits are all over the earth today. Now we will see what Michael does with Satan, in fulfilling II Thessalonians 2:7. Revelation 12:9; "And the great dragon [Satan] was cast out [that is the transitive verb of verse seven], that old serpent [this is the role Satan played in the Garden of Eden], called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world [except for God's elect]: he was cast out onto the earth, and his angels were cast out with him." This is when Satan will physically appear on earth as a man with his angels. This is the time of the Antichrist's coming, and we must know when this time is by when these events takes place, for Satan comes at the sixth trumpet. Then the verse picks up where Satan is standing in the holy place. Satan's object is to deceive all the world, and have the world take his markings in their minds. God's Word thus says that Satan will come to earth and stand in that Holy place, before Christ will come and gather anyone back to Himself.

Byzantium was a beacon of science in a dark world, while the Muslims and Catholics hacked each other to pieces and murdered their scientists, Byzantium was at its peak in science and philosophy. Meanwhile the Muslims didn’t know even know how to use soap and the Western Europeans had to rub oranges on their skin to rid themselves of their stench, Byzantium had the first public baths. I long to see Hagia Sophia as she was meant to be and I long to see Constantinople as she was meant to be.

Perhaps the confusion stems from you early post in regard to those “DIRECT COMMANDS”.I think you may mean well , but i’Ve got another direct command for you.If I were to cold-cock you in the face would you turn to offer me the other cheek ? Do I need to go any further down this road?You seem to come across as one who is willing to forgive her but not until she suffers enough first.God forbid somebody would “ get away with something”. Are you blind to the suffering she is currently enduring? I hope you are not the type that would “ cast the first stone”. She doesn’t need to be preached law. She knows she fell short.Let her and God work it out.You are taking on one heck of a load “trying to keep her from sinning”.Unless you are Holy Spirit Jr., let God’s convicting Spirit do its job.Its obvious He has.OUR JOB as Paul would say, is to forgive her and restore her to the fellowship.In a spirit of meekness.As I said earlier, YOU might be next to mess up.I pray with all of my heart that God will grant her wisdom in this matter.When we sin, God chastises us—- that is what she is presently experiencing.She should thank God for the chastisement, painful as it may be, for if we are not chastised by God in order to make us wiser ( not in order to get his “ pound of flesh”) we do not belong to him.Thank God for His Grace and use this new wisdom to get back on course.If a rocket ship that is heading for the moon gets off course do we shoot it down? Of course not! We nudge it this way and we nudge it that way until it reaches its goal.That is what God does with our lives.The further off course we go the more painful that nudge can be, but we are still headed for the goal.As far as Salvation goes, it’s like Zola Levitt used to say. When you stand before Jesus at the Bema Seat, if anybody would ever bring up this transgression, Christ is gonna say “Sin? What sin? I don’t remember it” . This Sister needs to do as we all should do....Trust Jesus to guide you, learn from your mistakes and enjoy your life, do your best to live the life Jesus wants you to live and FORGIVE YOURSELF! “We are who are in Christ are no longer under condemnation” We are under grace, not Law......run , don’t walk from modern day Pharisees who would tell you different.

Like, crave, admire, infatuation, neediness, addiction... these things are often mistaken for love. The ancient Greeks came up with a common language to unite its empire (secular Koine Greek) with which the New Testament was written. Their empire covered several nations and multiple cultures so they set out to be as exacting and precise as possible in this language. They came up with four names / definitions for "love:" eros (fleshly) storge (friendship) phileo (brotherly / familial) agapeo (Godly / perfect) The Bible defines love as other-centered. In the order above from least to most other-centered. Agape is pure other-centered. I would deem it "true love." Phileo and storge are varying degrees of camaraderie love ("us" love). Eros... eros is self love with no real other-centeredness to it at all. For that reason alone I would question its place in the category of love at all. Eros is also a counterfeit of true love... many who have experienced what they believed was true love for another (especially unrequited love) were more than likely the victims of the counterfeit eros. ← Love sickness. True love is not sick. It does not hurt. One can be hurt by someone they love, but true love itself is not a sickness or a pain or anxiety. That's eros. Self... me, myself, and I. I want, I need, I think they would be better off with me... (self-centered). And it gives birth to lust. Jesus asked Peter in his restoration of apostleship "Lovest (agape) thou me more than these? Lovest (phileo) thou me? Lovest (storge) me?"

That’s a wonderful way to see Revelation. The revealing of Jesus and the apocalypse or unveiling of the Bride of Christ.

I often thought of the beginning verses of the book of Revelation as a kind of forward for the entire Bible. The revealing of the Lord Jesus Christ...

I believe this one has ran its course. Locked for now at least.

im confused? at what point did it seem like there was a lack of forgiveness. all im doing is trying to keep her from sinning.

Great post Debp, thank you. I've also heard various reports of Muslim's having visions of Jesus in Iran, and many, many converting to Christianity, even under penalty of death. The Bible says Iran is going to eventually have a bright future!

I know you wanted to help. As I said you're new here so you don't know me. Between my walking disability as well as not owning a car I can't go hardly any where. So even if you found a nice church online I wouldn't be able to get to it. The only church is I can get to is a Catholic one which isn't so bad, I went there a few times. I was raised Catholic but left when I was 18. IMO many Catholic people are just as godly as we are. Many love God and they obey Him in the way they were taught to. (this gets into whether or not God is a legalistic and I say no) However, my problem is when I go in a Catholic church and I see all those statues I don't believe they should be there. I guess this takes my mind off God and onto things the average Catholic doesn't even know about. I struggle with this because I know the important thing is a person's relationship with God not how the person expresses it. (I know also, that in OT times God treated the ancient people differently, He demanded they worship Him as He told them through Moses and the prophets. But times have changed and I think God is way above our little minds) Stick around Angelfishie and you'll get to know some of us. The apology wasn't necessary but it showed your heart, which is a good one. ☺️

Please dont claim to speak for what the saviour intended when it contradicts way he directly said. i honestly hate when people distort simple straightforward bible principles to match their preheld opinions. its like how people who want to accept homosexuality claim it only refers to male prostitutes. A simple check if the word porneia shows that while different group have broader or narrower definitions, ALL agree that pornea refers to sexually based activities not involving the spouse. By including stuff like anger envy control etc.you are again stretching the scripture to fit what you want it to. using your logic, a person could get divorced and remarry for practically ANYTHING and claim -They were fornicating by the Greek definition.

Very informative, thank you! If it is not too much trouble, can you briefly list the 27 fears of Muslims? Even having to go to bed in a certain position, I had never heard of that before. No wonder many Muslims are now coming to Christ!

it is a difficult situation to be in and I sympathise. however, id advise you to pray for God to reveal the meaning i the verse to you directly because the many differing opinions and questionable imput may confuse you even more

re-read that and see if it's making any sense. Hint- it doesn't. That sounds more like an excuse people give give disregard any part of the bible they don't like. 2 Timothy 3.16- all scripture is given by inspiration of God and is good for reproof correction instruction in righteousness. That verse regardless if how long it took to be recorded was given by Jesus to answer a specific question about a specific issue -divorce. it's not to be disregarded or claim itvwas for the jews only. never have have ever heard that any of jesus' sayings were no longer applicable to people. its not like the ot law that has passed.

See what you are doing is you're applying fancy verbatim to bend scripture to your opinion.Jesus makes his point very straight forward and clear in the verse that remarriagr except for fornication is leading to adultery. You need to be careful because you and staying alive are using your opinion to encourage the lady to sin. if you do that you could be setting yourself up for God to deal with you. and yes divorce and remarriage aren't the unforgivable sin but that doesn't mean we should wilfully sin knowing God will forgive us.

The Sons of Ishmael are being called by Jesus Christ. Muhammed was a true son of Ishmael, his family was famous in Mecca because of this linage. While the Sons of Isaac, the Jews are being Grafted Back In (Romans 11), Ishmael is being called forth from the Wilderness to embrace the Word of God. In Iran, one million were saved (last year), and the Ayotallah Komenei and the President of Iran confessed, "we are unable to stop this movement, every time we persecute Christianity, it grows." Certainly, some many fear this is massive Taqiyya, a ruse from the Muslims who pretend to be Christian to infilrate. To this I say we should not fear, for God has not given us a spirit of fear, "but of power, love, and a sound mind." (2 Timothy 1:7). In case you have a hard time having compassion for Muslims, I want you to know that they live under 27 fears, one of which if they don't go to bed in proper positon Allah will become indignant with them. Allah is said to never help Muslims, they must do everything in his name, they know not the power of God, so they need to see the Power of God in His Spirtual Gifts, and Muslims do not know God loves them, it is said that Allah hates sinners (Q'uran), when our God Jesus Christ loved us while we were sinners and enemies of God (Romans 5:4-11). The reason Muslims commit acts of violence is mainly this. In the Koran/Q'uran they are told of two paths to paradise: Jihad Ashgar and Jihad Akbar. Jihad Ashgar is to live sinless life or holy life of doing enough good works and resisting sin so that when they appear before Allah, their good deeds will outweigh their bad deeds on scale. Jihad Akbar, which Muhammed gave as indulgence during the holy wars on Medina and Mecca, promises that any Mujahedeen who dies in Jihad Akbar, holy war and kills the infidels will be given instant and certain access to paradise. It is creepy how the Catholic Crusading indulgence mirrors Jihad Akbar to the letter, probably because the Catholic Monks brough the Koran back in 6th century and studied it and thought some of ideas were, sigh, helpful for the warrior class of Europe.. Thus, a Muslim who is truly concerned about paradise, will opt for Jihad Akbar because its a certainty of salvation for them. They infatically ignore the next paradox Muhammed introduced, where he said he no longer wanted to prusue Jihad Akbar but go back to purity of Jihad Ashgar. This makes Muhmmad no saint, nor does it aquit him of his genocidal raids on the Arab caravans and tribes, and skirmishes into Europe, Greece (Byzantium), and Africa and his propogating of a false religion. Most shocking of all is that Muhammed admitted something was wrong with his revelation. After going to the cave and Gibreal the angel appearing to him, and having fallen into a great fear and trembling and convulsions (Karen Armstong, Holy War), Muhammed returned to his first and wealthy older wife Khaji. Muhammed told her that he believed the angel was a jinn (genie, evil spirit, Disney's Aladdin is not how genies are, they are evil in Arabic literature who trick you), an evil spirit and that the revelation was evil. But Khaji convinced Muhammed to believe in the revelation from the cave (by the way, pagans use to go into deep caves, and open the gates of hades and talk to gods like Pan in the time of Jesus). This is all recorded in the First Hadith, the writings of Muhammed. Sad, all of the problems today with Islam could have been averted if its own prophet had gone with his gut. I mean no disrespect to Muslims guests reading the forum, but these are the words of the Muslim Prophet. He doubted the revelation and was afraid. In our Bible every time an angel appears that is from God is says, "And the angel said unto them, Fear Not, behold, I bring you tidings of great joy, which shall be to all people (that includes Arabs, Turks, Iranians, Ishmaelites, and beyond), For unto you is born this day in the city of David a Saviour, which is Christ the Lord." (Luke 2:10-11) If you want to read more on how Muhammed doubted, what happened in Mecca, and how to share the Gospel with Muslims and understand what fears bind them, and hold them captive (so as to pray) I recommend you check out this book (its in seminaries, but you can get it on amazon.com), "How Islam Plans to Change the World," by William Wagner, publish date April 9th, 2012, Kregel Publishers. The book cover has the dome of a mosque with crescent, a blue sky in background and white sleeves, and binding. Wagner explores the 27 fears that bind Muslims. He explores how the Love of God (John 3:16, 1 John 4:8) and the Power of God (1 Corinthians 12:4-11) are key to evangelization fo Muslims. He shares the Five Pillars of Islam, the Wars in Mecca, the Q'uranic verses that fuel Jihad Akbar, He shares how Muhammed doubted in the First Hadith, and more. He shares persoanl stories, of how he took some Muslim men who had converted to Christianity to a Chuch Mosque, a church that looks like a Mosque, but worships Jesus and not Allah. The men told him, "we have been set free by Christ, why would we go back to this bondage." Its a great resource if you want to know more about what Muslism believe, their history, and how they are getting saved in droves around the world; he even gives five senrios for the future between the Cross and Cresent.

that's nonsense.You're giving het an exvuse to go sin.while while i sympathise with the op because it is indeed a harsh situation, you can't use that rationale to discount a DIRECT COMMAND from God's word. people use excuses like that to pick and choose the principles they want to ignore. Gods word is absolute and must be followed (unless it tells us things are no longer standing )

Good Topic.. We encounter spiritual battles / warfare during our journey. To face / overcome battles, put on the full armor of God. - ( Ephesians 6:11-17 ) Also, you need "discernment and wisdom".

I almost always do.

15 And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. 16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned. 17 And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues; 18 They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover. 19 So then after the Lord had spoken unto them, he was received up into heaven, and sat on the right hand of God. 20 And they went forth, and preached every where, the Lord working with them, and confirming the word with signs following. Amen. Mark 16: You are not alone my brother in Christ. I too was baptised in water and about a month later seeking to be baptised in the Holy Spirit I burst forth speaking in a new tongue and I was instantly healed there and then from some 25 years plus of cigarette and marijuana smoking, along with alcohol drinking and my addiction to shooting up speed. That very afternoon set free from my demons, the old man, all of it wonderfully by the power of God within me. That was on 1st December 1996 and I have been praying in tongues ever since, enjoying multitude miracles, healings, blessings and the power to overcome the trials and tribulations that come against my faith and my walk. And I am still worshipping in spirit and in truth in a disciplined Bible obedient Pentecostal church werein everybody is baptised in water and the Holy Spirit, and all have the sign of receiving the indwelling Holy Spirit by speaking in tongues: Our personal spiritual prayer language given by God so that we may transcend our carnal limitations and pray the deep things needed for our souls and our faith. 10 But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searches all things, yea, the deep things of God. 11 For what man knows the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knows no man, but the Spirit of God. 12 Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God. 1Corinthians 2:

The idea to enter this hymn came to me after reading a wonderful post by Willa (which was a reply to 'Jesus, my First Love." ) What she shared comforted my heart and I am sure it will yours, too. These are the lyrics: A wonderful Savior is Jesus my Lord, A wonderful Savior to me; He hideth my soul in the cleft of the rock, Where rivers of pleasure I see. Refrain: He hideth my soul in the cleft of the rock, That shadows a dry, thirsty land; He hideth my life in the depths of His love, And covers me there with His hand, And covers me there with His hand. A wonderful Savior is Jesus my Lord, He taketh my burden away, He holdeth me up and I shall not be moved, He giveth me strength as my day. With numberless blessings each moment He crowns, And filled with His fullness divine, I sing in my rapture, oh, glory to God! For such a Redeemer as mine. When clothed with His brightness transported I rise To meet Him in clouds of the sky, His perfect salvation, His wonderful love, I’ll shout with the millions on high.

The Father is greater than all the united forces of men, fallen angels, demons, and all enemies, so no one need fear of being snatched out of Gods hand. The only thing one must do is come to God and permit His salvation and keeping power to be manifested. God cannot keep one contrary to his will any more than He kept Lucifer (Isa. 14:12-14; 1 Tim. 3:6), angels ( 2 Pet. 2:4; Jude 6-7), pre-Adamites (Jer. 4:23-26; 2 Pet. 3:5-8, demons (Mat. 8:29), Adam and Eve (Gen. 3; Rom. 5:12-21), and many others who willed to sin.

Font size is ok.. But you have flooded the thread instead of doing one post a day.. Most people do not bother to read a wall of text and many many links to more walls of text... Just a bit of friendly advice .. Give them one bite at a time.. Avoid trying to ram it all down their throats to the point where they will choke and vomit it up and walk away..