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Hi PepperS, Do you realise that the Matthew scripture was spoken to the people of Israel who were in darkness. However to the Body of Christ, the Holy Spirit writes through the Apostle Paul - `But you, brethren are NOT IN DARKNESS that this day should overtake you as a thief..` (1 Thess. 5: 4) and `...exhorting (WARNING) one another, and so much the more as you SEE THE DAY APPROACHING.` (Heb. 10: 25) Thus we are told we are NOT IN DARKNESS and to WARN, as mabel is saying, all the more as we SEE the day approaching. Are you in darkness that you cannot see the day approaching? `Therefore let us NOT SLEEP, as others do, but let us watch and be sober.` (1 Thess. 5: 6) Marilyn.

Hi Mabel, I agree with Marilyn and Selah, not real sure where PepperS is with his/her thinking, we are surely much closer to the end from when we first believed! You just have to look at what is happening Globally to recognise the signs of the times, we are surely right on the doorstep. We know that we are made up of 3 parts, Spirit, Soul and Body. This body/tent in which we inhabit is bound for destruction, our soul is about our emotions, feelings etc, and it is our Spirit that exists for eternity. In the parable of the sower, his job was to go out and sow, where it fell, that's where it lay. As Apostle Paul communicated, " I laid the foundation, Apollos watered, but it's God who gives the increase." As dear Marilyn mentioned, "just keep on sowing." Look, we're not going to please all the people all the time, someone is surely going to be offended, it's just how some people are. That's not our concern, if we've "sown in love," how other people receive it isn't our concern. And as my dear departed Dad used to say to me, "son, just keep looking up and Praise Jesus," He has our backs and He will surely take care of the rest. As always, I hope this helps, God bless.

Keep it simple, stick to the good news of the gospel when witnessing. The Holy Spirit will let you know when, just be ready to act. God bless

Hi mabel, Seems like some people here think differently. Anyway I would say keep doing what you are doing, and let your life be the example at the moment of what you believe. When the economic crash comes (soon, I believe) people will be quite concerned about their future, their money, their lifestyle. That will be the time for them to actually see that your heart is not `failing for fear of what is coming on the world,` as God`s word says, (Luke 21: 26) It all has to do with timing, and at this time you, we, are being strengthened in our hearts by the Holy Spirit so as not to fear, but learning to listen. Keep growing, keep listening, and it is the Lord`s responsibility to give you the right words at the right time. And it wont be a sermon, or a big eschatological discourse, but the truth of them having to face where they will spend eternity. great topic, Marilyn.

ok so we are most definately in the last days. everyday pretty much i hear things on the news i see in the street..i am not good with the full on explanation. with my family i worry about this and others. people dont take any notice of me at best or dismiss me that has been my life upto date. how can you tell people and not alienate them whilst you are doing it? how can you keep it simple and not do a church sermon on them? or sound sanctimonious? what if you are still have much to learn yourself my life is changing and people are seeing and making comments. for me i can only do stuff by living it i cant quote it its just not what i am able to do. and so at best it would end up disjointed and contradictory. not sure if this is exactly what i want to say but i thought that i would make a start maybe ...

Love it! Here it is also in Jeremiah, foreshadowing the coming of Jesus and the new covenant! “But this is the new covenant I will make with the people of Israel after those days,” says the Lord . “I will put my instructions deep within them, and I will write them on their hearts. I will be their God, and they will be my people. And they will not need to teach their neighbors, nor will they need to teach their relatives, saying, ‘You should know the Lord .’ For everyone, from the least to the greatest, will know me already,” says the Lord . “And I will forgive their wickedness, and I will never again remember their sins.” Jeremiah 31:33‭-‬34

We should warn others even if the end is not for another thousand years since we all live only 100 years at best or we could die from any number of causes any day. Then eternity.

It is pretty obvious the Lord has made your salvation very real to you, and laid it on your heart, and you have a great need to share this "great news" to those who are not aware. I personally am also concerned when discussing the gospel, to not point fingers at anybody, but myself. I usually simply give my reason for loving God. I share and not shout. I explain how I didn't know the truth, but now I do, and am just a beggar, telling another beggar, where to find bread. I give the simple gospel. I was lost, and now I'm found. I cried out. And He heard. And He drew me, and HE showed me the truth, through many other faithful believers, the good news that God loves us, and sacrificed His son to save us, from eternity in hell. Hell is real. The word is true. Trust God's word. Believe. Have faith in His word, to us. Then I give them the word, an amplified bible, easy to read. Tell them "don't trust me, trust what you read" Then, really pray for them. Intercede. (It works) And trust God to do His part.

Simple, ...being taught by the Holy Spirit! But the anointing which you received from Him abides in you, and you do not need anyone to teach you. But as His anointing teaches you concerning all things, and is true and no lie, and as He has taught you, abide in Him. 1 John 2:27 Lord bless

I'm not the original poster, but we don't have to be a Greek scholar to say the NWT of John 1:1 is wrong, ...simply because the definite article "a" is not found or used in the Greek language of the new Testament. Lord bless

Make it simple. People do not like really long posts. Tell them the true word of God. Give them the essentials and how to be saved. It is then up to God to open their heart. Life is full of choices. We make a choice in this life to spend our eternity in heaven or hell.

Remember Jesus says: "Blessed are you if you find nothing in ME (Jesus) to stumble over" (no offence).... And that most/ many people STUMBLE over Jesus than not - MOST people reject Jesus and you and me , as many as are in Jesus. (they will take offense at you IF YOU TELL THE TRUTH - including on this forum) i.e. most people ARE alienated by Jesus, by Yahweh, and by Jesus' Followers..... (and ALL we say and do)

Most of all those 'indications' you use are not only false, but have been used to deceive countless billions (or millions anyway). According to SCRIPTURE (remmber?) ...... as WRITTEN...... we ARE "in the last hour" ....

Man's so-called knowledge and so-called wisdom is foolishness, even an abomination, Yahweh says, because it leads to serving creatures instead of the Creator. In the same manner, hasatan uses so-called "biology" to deceive men everywhere. Only a few are not deceived. Same in other fields. Adam and Eve should have resisted hasatan, and he would have fled. Instead , they listened.... and all mankind was subjected to sin as a result when they disobeyed Yahweh after listening to hasatan.

Yes , that we should fast . Now lift those hands up angels and praise the Lord . OH let us fast unto the Lord and praise His Name .

I agree, we have to be very careful with false teachers in the days we live in . Now friend, do you have something to add to the topic of this thread?

Pardon me for interjecting here but that is totally incorrect as Rev 12 says no such thing. Let me post the actual words from which you concoct your personal narrative. "5 And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and his throne." No where here does it say the child is caught up immediately upon birth. A man child is the child of his mother till the day of the man child's death, so this child in Rev 12:5 could be any age. There is no timing language in this verse. I know to what you are alluding, that the church is the man child born of Israel and will be caught up before the bad stuff happens. But your own logic betrays you. If the man child is the church and is caught up as soon as it is born, then the man child, according to your logic, should have been caught up in the first century, as soon as it was born. Further, man child in Rev 12:5 is not a collective, it's singular and particular; a male son. Again faulty logic, and coupled with lazy research. "Does not get to hold her child"... Do you just make it all up as you go along? Pretrib rapture is a made up concept, with not just a dearth of evidence in support, but fully lacking even a single exculpatory speck. You'll see. I hope you call on the Lord in your need in that day.

The Jews are waiting for Messiah and Elijah, their belief is explained in Rev.13, those who will come will be the fake Messiah and fake prophet, which is described as the 1st and 2nd beast, who will rule from Jerusalem.

Why would anyone be afraid of Pre-Trib? It sounds too good to be true. A free pass from all the suffering. No, in reality it's the Post-Trib that's the scary one, and Biblically it's also the correct one. The false prophet enters the temple, then Christians are persecuted for 3 and a half-years and then at the end of all this Jesus comes to rescue us (the rapture), defeat the Devil and then set up the Millennial reign. This fits in perfectly with what the Bible says. The pre-Trib has to add all sorts of stuff to scripture that simply isn't there. 'Jesus comes back, then he leaves, then he comes back again', all that sort of nonsense. If you simply read scripture word for word without adding your own pre-conceptions (and wishful thinking) to it, you'll find the truth. Always read scripture without pre-conceived ideas. I read scripture without any bias, neither accepting nor rejecting either pre-Trib or Post-Trib doctrine. In fact the first time I started reading the Bible I was completely unaware of either rapture theory so I had no bias to overcome either way. The pre-Retrib rapture is essentially popular doctrine in the U.S.A. but is almost unheard of among Christians outside of North America. It was never even considered by early Christians, nor by subsequent ones. It became popular because of teachers such as John Nelson Derby and Hal Lindsey who brainwashed thousands of Americans with the idea, so that from an early age these churchgoers were taught to believe in it. It is so comforting to them, that they can't let go of it, no matter how much they are shown the error of their ways. The truth sometimes is too painful to deal with. Pre-Trib is simply un-Biblical and many times this has been explained on Worthy forums, yet the pre-Tribbers simply won't let go! Instead, they don their Sherlock Holmes outfits, pull out their huge magnifying glasses, pick up their pocket calculators and go to work trying desperately to find the needle in the haystack that simply isn't there. Then when they've subtracted Daniel's 70th week from this, and added it to that, then divided it by something else, they yell "Eureka", here it is... I've found it." But it's just an exercise in puzzle-solving and riddles - and has little to do with understanding the simple truth of God's word. I don't doubt the intelligence or integrity of pre-Tribbers. Many are smart people who are clever at analysis, and have an admirable patience and dedication when it comes to trying to solve Biblical conundrums, but they are motivated by a false premise. They are motivated by a desire to justify something that they already believe in, rather than being motivated by the humility of understanding that they know nothing, but simply want to ask God questions that will give them knowledge. But why try to complicate the simple truth of God's teachings? Why make His word more complicated than it already is? It's possible to convince anybody that they've found just about anything in scripture if they desperately want to, but only if they add 'this', assume 'that', and deceive themselves into believing God has said something that he never actually said. For example: Homosexuals can convince themselves that God is okay with Gay marriage if they assume beforehand that he is (and want him to be so) just by twisting scripture, adding what they desire, and deleting what they don't like. The same goes for anybody who wishes to believe in something that their heart's desire. But in the end it's all about the truth. Jesus tells us to come to him as a small child. Small children know nothing, yet their curiosity leads them to ask questions. They don't have pre-assumptions. That's how we should be. Post-Trib, Mid-Trib, Pre-Trib, or even no Trib at all.... who knows? Who cares? Who is willing to accept whatever God tells them (even if it hurts at first and they don't like the answer that God gives them)? At the end of the day, Post-Trib (and even possibly Mid-Trib) fits the Biblical narrative. Pre-Trib only works if you add your own bias to scripture and look for stuff that isn't actually there in the first place.

I don't want you to be alarmed brethran. The apostle Paul was dealing with false teaching that had leaked into the church, such teaching that was alarming them concerning if the day of the Lord had already taken place.

But I do not want you to be --------- brethren ,concerning those have fallen asleep,lest you sorrow ,as others,who have no hope.

James said "Show me your faith without your works, and I will show you my faith from my works." man, you didn't even have the courtesy to read what I wrote, I'm wasting my time...

What do you do with these? And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth. John 1:14 And of his fullness have all we received, and grace for grace. John 1:16 For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ. John 1:17 And with great power gave the apostles witness of the resurrection of the Lord Jesus: and great grace was upon them all. Acts 4:33 Now when the congregation was broken up, many of the Jews and religious proselytes followed Paul and Barnabas: who, speaking to them, persuaded them to continue in the grace of God. Acts 13:43 But Noah found grace in the eyes of the LORD. Gen 6:8 And Moses said unto the LORD, See, thou sayest unto me, Bring up this people: and thou hast not let me know whom thou wilt send with me. Yet thou hast said, I know thee by name, and thou hast also found grace in my sight. Exo 33:12 And he said unto him (Gideon), If now I have found grace in thy sight, then shew me a sign that thou talkest with me. Jdg 6:17 And now for a little space grace hath been shewed from the LORD our God, to leave us a remnant to escape, and to give us a nail in his holy place, that our God may lighten our eyes, and give us a little reviving in our bondage. Ezra 9:8 And on and on and on, ...one of the major foundational Truths of the Old and New Testaments is ...Grace, Grace, Grace!!! Please forgive me for asking, "...Have you even read the Bible?"

Shalom, OldCoot. Well, the "two different entities" technique was necessary FOR A TIME to counter the former Replacement Theology encroachment in theology. HOWEVER, it was never meant to be that way at all! We ARE to be ONE people, but "the Children of Israel" TRUMPS, as you prefer, "the bride / body of Messiah." The "churches" or the "bride / body" doesn't take the place of the Children of Israel, but the Children of Israel ABSORB the "churches" after the "times of the Gentiles" is over and "the fulness of the Gentiles be come in". Think about it this way: How could the "Wife of YHWH" be different than the "Bride of Christ" if the Christ, the Son of God, is GOD like God the Father is GOD? Aren't they ONE GOD? They need to be one and the same as Yeshua` and YHWH are one and the same! Make sense?

You were told part of the truth as a child. Now would be a good time to find out the rest of the truth. (not on this forum; but on this site - at worthychristianlibrary dot com, perhaps) If you really believe that believing Yahweh's Word (Scripture) and telling others what Yahweh's Word Says (in full, in Spirit, in Truth, as He Says) is 'arrogant', then you must think 'arrogant' is good ?

God got Paul to the point in his life that he learned “ to be content in any situation”.It sounds silly , but in a society that worships “ being cool”, Peter and Paul and others sang when they were thrown into prison.That is being cool.God put a joy in their hearts that the most terrible circumstances could not diminish.He wants us to have that same joy.Resting in the finished work of the Cross is the vital first step in this joy.A Legalist will never receive any joy from God.Faith plus nothing.

And in the early morning or morning , at noon or evening , or at midnight YE SHALL PRAISE THE LORD GOD with all your might . You shall praise HIM before the roosters crow , till long after the turkey goes to roost . YE SHALL MAKE A JOYFUL NOISE unto HE WHO HAS SAVED US . OH let all that has breath praise the HOLY LORD .

Hi, Well guess "we" have been in the last days for about two thousand years now. We are as you say "definitely in the time of the signs" now. I don't think the unsaved care a wit about end times as a reason to turn to God the Holy Spirit and listen to His call to them, nor as reason to repent of sin against God the Father, onto receiving Jesus, who is God, as their savior. End times may motivate us to speak up, but it is not the message of salvation for the unsaved that will motivate them to hear the Holy Spirit's call to them personally. The message is that their soul might be required of them tonight- do they have certainty about what that will mean for them? Would they like to have certainty? Jesus is that certainty, as He declared and as He lived for all to see. He is the way, the truth and the life, no one comes to the Father except by him. Your body is finite, but your soul is not! It is eternal. ( That is an opening statement that can be declared). There is a serious problem of where the eternal soul will be when the body dies. Nothing of today's concerns about the health of your body compares in importance with knowing where the soul that does not die will be for eternity to come after the body dies. Being cavalier about the eternal future of your soul is not going to change what happens, but hearing the Holy Spirit call to you to turn about your sin against God will. Have you heard? Have you been listening? Have you been considering anything of what is the one real important fact of life, your life? These are openings, preamble to sharing the gospel of Jesus. May God bless you with boldness to speak, and the courage to speak without apology. May God bless and may God cause your family members to hear and to heed.

Okay Darren, Why don't we talk about specific verses that seem to indicate eternal conscious torment. I would like to hear your take on these verses and how they would fit into a conditionalist viewpoint. First --- Matthew 25:41 "Then he will say to those on his left, ’Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels." & then Matthew 25:46 "Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life." Second - - - Daniel 12:1 ¶ "...everyone whose name is found written in the book — will be delivered. Multitudes who sleep in the dust of the earth will awake: some to everlasting life, others to shame and everlasting contempt."

If you tried to warn me I would politely tell you that the Lord didn't return yesterday, could return today, might return tomorrow and that I am ready, but the lost, alas, it will be too late for them if they are not ready when He comes. That's the truth of it.

This happens to multitudes of souls worldwide. Some times because it is true. Sometimes not. To see without argument or squabbling some tried and true, tested and proven Scriptural teachings, look at worthychristianlibrary dot com. (this is on this site, or directly thru the url. Click on "worthy ministries" then library above left corner, or type in the address). The best that used to be in the "library" was by watchman nee, but it is no longer there. Don't know why. The rest is still mostly all good and tested and proven in line with all Scripture, free to read (while it is still there, or course - don't know when it might be gone too) .

I am enabled to trust the Word of God past my sensual aspects... it is like nothing else that I have began in for my motive is of s/Spirit apart from flesh as I can loose all that I have known yet not loose anything of faith in the promises of God not yet seen...

What does it mean to be filled with the Spirit? To answer the question I go to Ephesians 3:14 For this reason I kneel before the Father, 15 from whom every family[a]in heaven and on earth derives its name. 16 I pray that out of his glorious riches he may strengthen you with power through his Spirit in your inner being, 17 so that Christ may dwell in your hearts through faith. And I pray that you, being rooted and established in love, 18 may have power, together with all the Lord’s holy people, to grasp how wide and long and high and deep is the love of Christ, 19 and to know this love that surpasses knowledge—that you may be filled to the measure of all the fullness of God. To be filled with all the fullness of God begins with a comprehension of the love of God. This comprehension only comes as we are empowered by the Spirit to do so. The natural mind cannot comprehend this love because it surpasses knowledge. Any fullness that does not begin here falls short.

I've become more aware of fastings in the last two years and I believe we are called to fast. I don't think the churches teach enough on this subject. The most I have able to fast without drinking or eating was three days and if it is Spirit led, it is doable. I do believe that if you receive your answer before the time you allotted to fast, it is more difficult! Because you got your answer! LOL We as a nation need to be fasting and praying more. I will have to try those other fasts that you have written here. Thanks again Angels! Please keep me posted on how your fasting and praying goes! When you share, it exhorts us all to do the same.

God does the enabling according to scripture, this is absolutely true. John 6:44 No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him. And I will raise him up on the last day. When a person is drawn to God, it is at that point they must humble themselves and cry out to Him for salvation. For some this happens quickly, others are more obstinate. Whether one reaches rock bottom before they humble themselves or not is entirely up to them, the Lord is patient. God bless

spirit

Ah ha receive now that is very interesting you should say that Maz as I definitely feel things have changed for me since Christmas …and you have hit the nail on the head. The receive signal just needs to get more tuned in as it keeps breaking up due in large part to anxiety i am discovering that i need more of the Holy Spirit or is it Jesus. anyway when i do the stress levels reduce and i can tackle things again. maybe i am becoming more sensitive of this or just fed up of anxiety! and just recently i am finding that i can talk a wee little bit about Jesus to others i have been expereinceing this just lately even in the most trying of situations which can only mean its of the Holy Spirit. been a long road and having to let go of the major setbacks and failures that would fill a catologue. obviously God needs me to be humble eeeek

It's interesting to me that you are still trying to make my thread about a discussion of evolutionary theories. If I was keen on discussing that topic, I would have made that the crux of my commentary, instead of a simple statement to build the real intent of my thread. ? It seems to make you uncomfortable that, in good conscience, I can make a statement like that and not feel a need to back it up. I have spent a great deal of time evaluating the evidence for evolution and I personally found it lacking. You see, when secular scientists operate on the assumption that there is no God, they are literally forced to interpret the evidence in a way that supports their position. Christians do this too. The point I made, which you clearly missed, was that no amount of counter evidence will change their mind if they are intelligent. Therefore, the debate, much like the one you seem dead set on dragging me into, is pointless. I don't waste my time in that arena much (unless He tells me to). I'm completely comfortable with my evaluation of the evidence and there is rarely a time that I need to argue in support of said evaluation. Why? Because there is something much more powerful than evidence. It's called proof. Unbelievers cannot account for laws of logic, uniformity in nature (upon which all of science is built, including the ever so precious theories of evolution) and absolute morality. If they cannot account for those things, why waste my time debating evolution? There are plenty of very intelligent scientists that believe very much in evolution. Not because they are dumb, not because they are looking at different sets of data, but because they have to in order to support their worldview. Twice you insinuated that I was arrogant and finally, you straight up called me arrogant. On your second post insinuating I was being arrogant, you even finished it with a verse about being nice to others... Lol. Romans 12:18 I find it much more arrogant to step into someone else's thread and tell them what they should and should not say because of your feelz. Even more so when it is quite evident that wasn't part of point of the thread. I mean, I guess it was part of the point in an ironic kind of way, but I'm assuming that irony was lost on you as well. If you want to have a discussion on the merits for and against evolutionary theories, start a thread and do so, I'd certainly read it. This particular thread is about the unbelievers inability to account for the preconditions of intelligibility as outlined in my original posts. Eventually, when I get a chance to write it up, I'll show how the other main religions can't stand up to scrutiny either. It'll be fun. Take care, Thomas.

'And thou shalt make a vail of blue, and purple, and scarlet, .. and fine twined linen of cunning work: .... with cherubims shall it be made: And thou shalt hang it upon four pillars of shittim wood overlaid with gold: .. their hooks shall be of gold, upon the four sockets of silver. And thou shalt hang up the vail under the taches, .. that thou mayest bring in thither within the vail the ark of the testimony: .... and the vail shall divide unto you between the holy place and the most holy. And thou shalt put the mercy seat upon the ark of the testimony in the most holy place. And thou shalt set the table without the vail, .. the candlestick over against the table .... on the side of the tabernacle toward the south: ...... and thou shalt put the table on the north side. And thou shalt make an hanging for the door of the tent, .. of blue, and purple, and scarlet, .... and fine twined linen, wrought with needlework. And thou shalt make for the hanging five pillars of shittim wood, .. and overlay them with gold, .... and their hooks shall be of gold: ...... and thou shalt cast five sockets of brass for them. (Exodus 26:31-37) Praise God!

'And they shall be eight boards, .. and their sockets of silver, sixteen sockets; .... two sockets under one board, ...... and two sockets under another board. And thou shalt make bars of shittim wood; .. five for the boards of the one side of the tabernacle, .... And five bars for the boards of the other side of the tabernacle, ...... and five bars for the boards of the side of the tabernacle, ........ for the two sides westward. And the middle bar in the midst of the boards shall reach from end to end. And thou shalt overlay the boards with gold, .. and make their rings of gold for places for the bars: .... and thou shalt overlay the bars with gold.' And thou shalt rear up the tabernacle according to the fashion thereof which was shewed thee in the mount. (Exodus 26:25-30) Praise God!

Why would God hide the Gospel being sent out with a SEAL ? Everybody knows that Jesus began His ministry 2000 years ago, no need to hide it with SEAL, man oh man.

Weep with those weep. Rejoice with those that rejoice.

Think back to the parable where 3 workers were given gold coins, and the master rewarded those who made more money and punished the one who buried it. I think investing your money in some way is wise. I have some invested in the stock market...I also have some invested in firearms.

Lol. That's a bit of a stretch. The NWT changes the meaning of the message, so no... Anyone with discernment of the Holy Spirit would correctly reject it as a viable translation. Here is just one example. John 1:1 - The original Greek text reads, "the Word was God." The NWT renders it as "the word was a god." Thats not biblical.

Hi Thomas, Would a debate into the merits of evolutionary theories change the status of your salvation? Do you think it would change mine? Do you think it strengthens or weakens the Body Of Christ when two believers argue over an issue that doesn't have anything to do with salvation? Notice that I haven't, and nor will I, ask you to back up your stance on evolution because your interpretation of the evidence has no bearing on mine. For we don’t live for ourselves or die for ourselves. If we live, it’s to honor the Lord. And if we die, it’s to honor the Lord. So whether we live or die, we belong to the Lord. Christ died and rose again for this very purpose—to be Lord both of the living and of the dead. So why do you condemn another believer ? Why do you look down on another believer? Remember, we will all stand before the judgment seat of God. For the Scriptures say, “‘As surely as I live,’ says the Lord , ‘every knee will bend to me, and every tongue will declare allegiance to God. ’” Yes, each of us will give a personal account to God. So let’s stop condemning each other. Decide instead to live in such a way that you will not cause another believer to stumble and fall. Romans 14:7‭-‬13 Take care, Thomas.

Hi Thomas! I didn't back it up because it wasn't the point of my thread. Actually the very point of my thread is quite evident in your response to my thread. I spent a great deal of time articulating why the evidential debate is usually a waste of time. If you are an unbeliever, I'm not interested in that debate because you cannot account for the preconditions of intelligibility so an evolutionary debate is pointless. If you are a brother in Christ, I'm not interested in the debate because you are free to believe as you wish. It makes no difference to me if you think God guided some kind of evolutionary process, as long as you understand and have faith in what Jesus Christ did for you.

In regards to Mark 16:9-20, those verses contain no teaching of significance that is not taught elsewhere. For example, Christ’s post-resurrection appearance to Mary is verified in Luke 8:2 and John 20:1-18. In regards to John 7:53 - 8:11, even if you doubt the authenticity of this story, no important Biblical doctrine is placed in doubt because of it. Look, I'm not interested in going through an entire critique of the Word. There are, quite literally, thousands of resources debating the topic back and forth. The real question is whether or not we accept the Bible as the inspired Word of God. I do and I would struggle with the idea of anyone claiming to be a Christian while refusing to accept the Word of God as just that. I see no worldview issues presented here other than ones ability/inability to rest in the Truth of the Bible and its message to those who choose to follow Jesus Christ. The point of this thread was to show that without the Biblical God, there is no foundation for the laws of logic, uniformity in nature and absolute morality. No amount of fanegaling this translation vs that translation will change that.

Thanks for taking the time to read my thread and putting together your thoughtful response! It matters not how others "interpret" the Word. God's Word says what it says and nothing is to be added, nor taken away. Anyone who teaches something other than what the Word says is wrong. It's simple, really. Cherry picking verses and manipulating them to fit our worldly perceptions is what leads to the problems you've noted. Those issues are only a problem for the ones who think the Bible doesn't say what it does. They aren't a problem for the Word as it remains faithful and true, forever. Amen. Heaven and earth will disappear, but my words will never disappear. Matthew 24:35 The Word can't be truth if its open to arbitrary worldly interpretation. Make them holy by your truth; teach them your word, which is truth. John 17:17

That was a good story. You know God's servant Corrie Ten Boom said false teachers will tell you you will not go through the tribulation. The post trib view is right. There is only one view taught in the bible. But I will not fight about it. They can believe in the pre trib if they want to bad enough.

Yes, about the Messiah, and Christs literal acts and words revealed this progression and when we look back at scripture post His revelation we see the clear typology. What you're doing is simply throwing out the word "progressive revelation" in the hopes that it'll do the heavy lifting for your view, without actually exegeting scripture. You might as well say "Exegesis says I'm right and you're wrong, or Good Hermeneutics says I'm right" But worse, if anything you've shot the entire traditionalist case in the foot, because now the proof texts for eternal conscious torment are only proof texts if correct exegesis is overruled by the assumption that progressive revelation reveals that the fate of the lost is eternal conscious torment. But you haven't shown that eternal conscious torment has been progressively revealed, so this is all just question begging.