Leaderboard

I like this topic. Knowing it in my head as opposed to my heart is something I struggled with periodically while growing up. But I stuck with it and came to see God intervening in my life, and that helped develop the heart knowledge. It's a process I imagine a lot of people go through.

Head Knowledge vs Heart Knowledge by Mike Mobley “Self-salvation through good works may produce a great deal of moral behaviour in your life, but inside you are miserable. You are always comparing yourself to other people, and you are never sure you are being good enough. You cannot therefore, deal with your hideousness and self-absorption through the moral law, by trying to be a good person through an act of the will. You need a complete transformation of the very motives of your heart.” – Tim Keller, The Reason for God When you hear about Jesus, what comes to mind? Who is Jesus to you? Depending on where you live, chances are you might have heard the Gospel before. Even now as you read this you might be saying to yourself “bla bla bla, yes I know the Gospel…move on to the next topic.” When it comes to Jesus, do you know Him in your head or in your heart? “Trust in the LORD with all your heart, and do not lean on your own understanding. In all your ways acknowledge Him, and He will make straight your paths.” – Proverbs 3:5-6 Would you say you know Jesus in your head or in your heart? Tweet Quote We can fill up our heads with knowledge all day long. From reading the internet, studying books, watching TV, listening to music, and having conversations with others, it’s amazing to think how much goes into our heads each day. What would it mean though for us to apply these things to our hearts? When we apply something to our heart, it becomes very real for us at that point. It drives our minds, emotions, and affections towards whatever that thing or someone is. Heart Knowledge Jonathan Edwards from his sermon Divine and Supernatural Light has a great illustration to make this point using honey. He says, “your mind can know honey is sweet, people can tell you it’s sweet, you’ve read books about it, etc. but if you haven’t actually tasted it, you know with your head, but not with your heart. When you actually taste it, you experience it for yourself, you know it in a full way, and you can know it in your heart.” Knowing with your heart however, is not to be confused by being led with your emotions. That is not what I’m talking about here. You obviously still learn things with your head. For example, we can definitely have head knowledge, and not have the heart knowledge to go along with it. However, it’s impossible to know things in our hearts, but not in our heads. When it comes to the Gospel, yes, we need to learn in our heads what Jesus has done for us, but more importantly, we need to learn this in our hearts. It needs to become real to us, personally. That’s exactly what happened to me when I realized that Jesus died for me. A good way to think about this for yourself is when you read the Bible, pray, or when you’re involved in the local body (the Church), are you doing all of this out of an obligation to God to pay Him back for something or to earn your way? Or, instead, are you doing all these things because of an overflow of gratitude of what He has done for you? Are you loving Jesus with your heart or head? Head Knowledge When we say things like “I know God loves me, but I hate myself” or “I know God wants me to be generous, but I just can’t do it,” we are stating truths about God from our head and using that knowledge, but there is a lack of understanding in our heart. If we knew God truly loved us, we wouldn’t hate ourselves. God’s love would be so real to us that we would see ourselves the way He sees us, through His son, as an adopted child. If we knew God truly wanted us to be generous, we would joyfully give our money, time, and possessions back to Him and anyone in need. Especially because He first loved us (1 John 4:19). So where are you in this? If you haven’t been using heart knowledge, there is no need be feel guilty or condemned (Romans 8:1). Pray to God, ask Him to search your heart, test your thoughts, guide you into understanding that what Jesus has done for you is very real and personal. Make a decision to become a follower of Christ today and to realize that you are forgiven by God through Christ. “Search me, O God, and know my heart! Try me and know my thoughts! And see if there be any grievous way in me, and lead me in the way everlasting!” – Psalm 139:23-24 Question: When it comes to Jesus, do you know Him personally, in your head or in your heart? https://www.beforethecross.com/devotionals/head-knowledge-vs-heart-knowledge/

Amen and praise God! My Pastor calls them God-incidences lol

@diane32 Thanks for this suggestion. I 'happened' (no coincidences with God ) to come across a quote of his just now while surfing the web. I thought you might enjoy, so I am posting it. (Also, a good one regarding salvation by Martin Luther.) “In saving the world, therefore, He does not try to alter man’s flesh; He instead gives man a new life in order to help put it to death. The flesh must die. This is salvation.” Watchman Nee “The recognition of sin is the beginning of salvation.” Martin Luther

I believe that sometimes we think we know it in our heart but we still do a works salvation and that shows that it's just head knowledge but other times we know it in the heart. Its a matter of continuosly being renewed in our minds by the word of God. There is a book by Watchman Nee called 'Sit Walk Stand' it's about the progress of Christian maturity it's a small book but is full of godly wisdom I would recommend it to everyone : ))

Love is not always a certain way of feeling. Sometimes it is just a deep, settled peace within our hearts....that we know our Savior, and the peace He gives to us.

@angels4u Hi. Good subject. Turtle's answer: I know Him personally in my heart. The heart is (pun intended, sis ) the "heart of the matter." It is in the heart that sin is harbored. "
For out of the heart come evil thoughts, murder, adultery, sexual immorality, theft, false testimony, slander." (Matthew 15:19) The heart leads to salvation. It is within the heart that conviction of being a sinner takes place and salvation occurs, as is described in Romans. “For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you profess your faith and are saved” (Romans 10:10). Salvation begins with a believing heart. It’s in our hearts that the Holy Spirit convicts us of sin and beckons us to come to the cross. When we choose to respond in faith, our hearts are changed through the power of the Holy Spirit and we are never the same. The key to salvation in the heart is through accepting Christ’s sacrifice for our sins.

It's nice to have both, I think. Just my personal opinion. May the Lord grant you the desires of your heart. God bless! Shalom, David/BeauJangles

1 John 4:19 (NASB) We love, because He first loved us. “because He first loved us” He first loved, this is what first moved God, and this is still what moves Him today, His love. This is true for today, as it was true yesterday and will be true for eternity forward. God’s love is that that moves Him. This Creator of all, that which moves Him is love. This is a awesome and heart questioning thought. And even more, we, all those that were born out of Adam are the objects of His love. This we are asked, to not accept by faith without proof, but by the proof that God sent His Son to die for us. No higher proof could be given of God’s unconditional love towards man than that which He put forth as proof. He, sending that Person that was the manifestation of His fullness to secure the new birth in all that would be willing to be reconciled to Him. All He asks of man is a heart that would be open to receive His love as love is in itself. And love as it is in itself can only be given and accepted in righteousness. Unrighteousness will spoil such a love so it can not be offered in unrighteousness, only in righteousness and to the degree a heart walks in righteousness, to that heart and to that degree can God show forth the greatness of His love. This is the state of fallen man and the salvation this God of love has put forth. This God of love has but one requirement to be able to grow into the fullness of this offer of salvation, is it to “go and sin no more”. This is the same love, but on a eternal scale, that every good parent would have for their child. This love that says I can only bless you if you behave yourself. This is the same command/request/beg, offer that this God of love asks of those that would accept His offer of love. To behave yourself, do the right thing for no other reason than it is the right thing. This attitude of heart is that that opens the door of a fellowship with God that makes all outward blessings pale by comparison. This fellowship that God has offered to the fallen sons of Adam, starts with the belief in the proof that this God of love has put forth. The death of His Son on our behalf. Believing that love does in fact exist and this love as love is in itself is directed to the heart of man that would be willing to believe and hope in such a great and awesome truth. This, “because He first loved” Is a love that is eternal never to get less, can not get more, but the heart that is willing can experience this love in a ever increasing way. Starting from this very moment of time to all of eternity by the simple act of the faith of the heart turned towards this God of love. This love and trusting in this love, though it is scary at first to trust, because it is so foreign to the mind and heart of man. This trusting in the love of God personally for each of us, is, once seen as the way of God towards all those that would accept His love for them, such a great and awesome truth, that the heart of man can most assuredly rest in. Once this love is tasted by experience there is absolutely nothing better, and the same truth will be for all eternity. Just the experience of His love in a greater and greater degree. Oh, accept the call of this love, oh ye hearts of man. This love, from the God of love says to each that would be willing “go and sin no more”. Blessings to all who’s heart wishes to answer the call. Much love in Christ, Not me

What is justification? Question: "What is justification? What does it mean to be justified?" Answer: Simply put, to justify is to declare righteous, to make one right with God. Justification is God’s declaring those who receive Christ to be righteous, based on Christ’s righteousness being imputed to the accounts of those who receive Christ (2 Corinthians 5:21). Though justification as a principle is found throughout Scripture, the main passage describing justification in relation to believers is Romans 3:21-26: “But now a righteousness from God, apart from law, has been made known, to which the Law and the prophets testify. This righteousness from God comes through faith in Jesus Christ to all who believe. There is no difference, for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, and are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus. God presented him as a sacrifice of atonement, through faith in his blood. He did this to demonstrate his justice, because in his forbearance he had left the sins committed beforehand unpunished—he did it to demonstrate his justice at the present time, so as to be just and the one who justifies those who have faith in Jesus.” We are justified, declared righteous, at the moment of our salvation. Justification does not make us righteous, but rather pronounces us righteous. Our righteousness comes from placing our faith in the finished work of Jesus Christ. His sacrifice covers our sin, allowing God to see us as perfect and unblemished. Because as believers we are in Christ, God sees Christ's own righteousness when He looks at us. This meets God's demands for perfection; thus, He declares us righteous—He justifies us. Romans 5:18-19 sums it up well: “Consequently, just as the result of one trespass was condemnation for all men, so also the result of one act of righteousness was justification that brings life for all men. For just as through the disobedience of the one man the many were made sinners, so also through the obedience of the one man the many will be made righteous.” It is because of justification that the peace of God can rule in our lives. It is because of justification that believers can have assurance of salvation. It is the fact of justification that enables God to begin the process of sanctification—the process by which God makes us in reality what we already are positionally. “Therefore, since we have been justified through faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ” (Romans 5:1). https://www.gotquestions.org/justification.html

Let us define our terms before beginning into a study on what constitutes the ceiling of the inner man to the faith OF Jesus Christ. We could see ourselves as a seed with a protective husk around it. The outer husk is the natural man, the carnal man...who so often is presented as being who we are. Most people are only as deep as what limits them to the natural man. They don't know a deeper way. But there is a deeper part to us...an inner man whose condition is largely unknown to most people. This inner man is the person of the heart...vulnerable and weak. It is the outer natural man that protects this inner man from the cruelties and hardness of this world. We need the natural man to get us through our day...that is unless we find another way to strengthen the inner man. And that would be Christ. So then we ARE the inner man in reality. But few of us want to identify with what is weak, naked, wretched and blind. THAT is our true condition before being clothed with Christ....who is our strength. But we need to know ourselves....as well as God. The truth sets us free. But there are barriers to the truth within us that must be overcome....by faith. Jesus said to the Laodiceans...who saw themselves in no need of anything...that they were poor, naked, wretched, and blind. But that is the condition of ALL men that have not put on strength from heaven. THAT is our natural condition in the world. The truth is always like a wheel within a wheel...so just when we think we understand something....there is more to it. Getting to know God is hard enough...but getting to know ourselves is harder. Most people live in this world known to others but not to themselves. And this includes Christians. God reveals Himself to us...but who reveals himself as he truly is? God is honest. But are we? So then the first step to knowing ourselves is to realize that the strength we have depended on all our lives is from the natural man. The natural man has learned how to get by in this world. The natural man brings success in the world. But it is but a put on persona...that has no eternal value whatsoever. So we are not to look for advancement in this world that is perishing. We are to invest in the inner man together with eternal things.

God has chosen Zion as His abode. Ps. 68:16 Why do you look with envy, O rugged mountains, at Mount Zion, where God has chosen to live, where the LORD himself will live forever? Ps. 76:2 His tabernacle is in Salem; His dwelling place also is in Zion. Ps. 132:13 For the LORD hath chosen Zion; he hath desired it for his habitation. Where is Zion? In the heavenly place! How are we seated together with Christ in the presence of God? Through abiding in Christ. Jesus Christ is the door....the gateway into heaven. There is more than one level of meaning to this. But we all have access by faith into the fulness of that meaning...into the very presence of God. Beliefs won't do it. It takes a certain kind of faith. The faith OF Jesus. The bible says...the just shall walk by HIS faith. Whose faith? It depends on what level of justification we are speaking of. The truth is multi-faceted (that's why there is so much disagreement and confusion) The truth is like a wheel inside a wheel. But the deeper part of the truth ( the inner wheel) is that we are to walk in Zion WITH Jesus which makes us to walk on this earth just as He did. It is the lack of this depth of understanding which has taken the truth out of it's powerful context to change the world. By making it something that beliefs can handle without faith.

Jesus Christ Himself is the transporter to the Father and HIS realm in the Spirit. Col. 1:13 Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son: Being a mediator is like a transporter in the Star Trek stories. In Christ we go to where God is. That is what it means to abide in Christ. To be translated from one place to another. But the mystery goes deeper here. Through Him we have access to the very throne of God. We can walk in His perfection. Whether or not that will be realized by each one of us in our lifetime is not the issue. We should see this as a body thing whereby the brethren bring treasures from heaven. It is like when friends visit a foreign land.....and bring us something back. So it is with spiritual gifts. These encourage us to wards the spiritual inclination to be available for God. There is a trend in todays teachings that would minimize the depths of Christ so as not to seem to leave anybody out. But this trend has hurt the church and it's potential for growth and power in a decisive way. We need to start thinking as a body. We need the gifts in the body...even if it isn't us ourselves having them. We need to start thinking as a team. The bible speaks constantly of impossible things. Jesus says that we ought to heal the sick and raise the dead. We need to rise to the challenge of faith...not shield people from the high calling in Christ.

Great post Not Me, ...so true! I once had a dear sister tell me, you might have a gallon of water, but only a thimble to drink with, that's a very good illustration of God's love for us, ...God's love for us is infinite, but what limits our receiving His love is the size of the cup we use to drink with, ...when what John said, "we love Him because He first loved us," finally sunk into my heart, my confession was, "Lord, I don't/can't love you enough, so please enlarge my capacity to receive the love You have for me!" In so praying for this, as we come to experience more and more of His love, ...with that comes a hatred, ...a hatred for the sin in our old carnal nature that so easily trips us up, ...which causes us to pray and beg for more love, "...Father, I can't fool you, I love my sin, that's why I do it, so please, show me something to love in/of You that is stronger and more powerful than my carnal love for my sin," ...and that my dear friends is how we become overcomers and can go and sin no more! Lord bless

I used to be a bull in a china shop kinda guy, get in their face with, "this is what the Word says," however, after hearing my pastor teach on this very thing through his own personal experience with a good friend, it changed my outlook and method of loving confrontation. He said there was an elder in the church that left his wife and family and moved in with his young secretary, he wanted to go and talk with him, but he didn't feel the Lord leading him to go, then, after much prayer he felt the Lord was telling him to go and talk with him, but he procrastinated, ...not knowing what to say, until finally one Saturday he drove over to where they were living. They were living in an apartment over a garage, ...he remembered the lovely house the man had left behind, he knocked on the door, his friend answered and invited him in, he said it was very awkward, he sat down and the young girl went to bring him something to drink, while he was waiting, looking around the dump they were living in, second hand thrift store furniture, holes in the carpet, ...he started to weep, weeping uncontrollably, he said he felt so embarrassed, he got up, excused himself and went outside and left. He didn't go home immediately, he drove around for awhile, angry at himself for not controlling his emotions, but all he could think about was the wife, children and loving home his friend had traded for his sin and while doing so he would start to weep all over again, finally he went home, told his wife what a failure he had been as a pastor, ...about 30 minutes after he was home the telephone rang, it was his friend, ...informing him he had left the young girl and moved back home, apologized to his wife and children, asked them to forgive him and give him a second chance, ...he also thanked his pastor for coming over to visit him. So as it has already been said, we pray and wait for the Lord's timing, He will give us what to say (or do) at the exact moment that He knows will penetrate the sinners heart, that way it's not us, but in all things, as usual, ...it's the Lord Jesus Christ. Lord bless

The natural man is to be broken in order to let the life of Jesus come out. Christians have the potential for a spiritual walk... The natural man is the normal order of things...and the source of power of immature believers who have not yet been broken by a deeper work of the cross. You are bringing in an indoctrination here...claiming what is "saved" and what isn't. You are being vague about the state of an immature Christian. What Christians need is not more indoctrinated Christians who have been born again. They need a mature spiritual person to help them. Otherwise you get the blind (to themselves) leading the blind. As I stated earlier...it is one thing to know God but quite another to know yourself. So many have fallen short of the grace of God in this way. The work of the cross of Christ is to transform us from a person that walks in his own power...to one who walks by the power that resurrected Jesus from the dead. Phil. 3:10 That I may know him, and the power of his resurrection, and the fellowship of his sufferings, being made conformable unto his death; Paul divides these in 2 phases....to know Him AND be made spiritual through a conforming to the Lord's death and life...in his moment by moment walk. Paul was already a believer at this stage, but he wanted to be fully conformed to Christ. Which part of us is to be a living sacrifice? The natural man. We are to count all things in the natural as loss that we may win Christ. Does this mean that the natural man is evil? No...but it means that our natural faculties and efforts are INSUFFICIENT to the standard of the grace of God. If we never break with the natural man and his power...we will frustrate the grace of God. So then it is the power of the cross we need to look for in order to break the natural grip we hold on to this world with. We need to get a divinely assisted spiritual grip on things. And how do we do that? Did I mention the natural man as a living sacrifice!

If the inner man gets help from outside (God) then there is no more use for the natural man. So it is to the benefit of the natural man to keep the inner man weak and dependent...but on himself. So this is the SELF-confident, SELF-sufficient nature at work. The natural man is really connected to the rebellion of the angels who came here to rule over this creation. As long as we don't see that...we will try improving ourselves through religious efforts. But there is a chasm between what the natural man can do...and what God is looking for in us. Jesus said if a man seeks to save his own life (natural man) he will lose it (a chance for real life) ...but if a man gives up his life for Christ (the natural man and his life) then he will find it (the inner man and the abundant life offered to him). The natural man carries the death of Jesus (His cross) so that the life of Jesus can penetrate to the inner man. I have a known a number of believers who thought that now that they have been awakened to the truth...and even operated in the spiritual gifts...that they are always walking in the Spirit. But what has changed in this condition is that they have added on a spiritual persona on top of a carnal walk. These then "spiritualize' their natural lives by replacing common things with more spiritual sounding terms...like rather than be happy...they are "blessed." etc... Some will say.... Once a person is born again the natural man is HISTORY. This is a common error in thinking. It is a confusion between a power that kept us captive....the old sin nature.... and a lack of spiritual maturity. What has been dealt with at the cross in the initial phase is not the death of the natural man...unless a person be no longer among the physical living...but it is the "old" man who is put to death. The old man is the sin NATURE that caused us to be hostile to God besides being fully ignorant of Him. The old man veils us from receiving any truth. With that out of the way there is still the soul to win for Christ. There is still the carnal mind to win over (or renew) from it's very natural dependence on soulish faculties. Does everyone who begins in the Spirit only rely on spiritual faculties? Paul cites the Galatians as foolish for turning to be perfected by other means than by the Spirit. So we are talking about the PROCESS of becoming spiritual in Christ. Many believers never advance in this through a bad teaching...a lack of discipleship...but be assured we are indeed talking of Christians. The Laodiceans were a people who over-estimated their growth in Christ. Having taken the first step, these claimed now to have won the race. Paul speaks of the Corinthians as being carnal believers. IOW not yet spiritual. The writer of Hebrews also laments the lack of growth in many in the church. So we see this is a common problem. There is a general lack of knowledge about these things. So then it is very common for a person who is born again to yet walk in his own natural strength. The difficulty is being weaned of the soul life so as to become spiritual in Christ.

What are we do with the gospel message? How do we respond to the calling of God? When we respond from the outer man we get religion...institutions...and every other worldly version of the way in Christ. But this is a counterfeit of the truth. God is calling us in the inner man. Deep is calling to deep. But something is in the way. The carnal, natural man wants to live...even more than the inner man does. So then, Houston, we have a problem. A way must be found to get the leachy natural man out of the way so to be able to come to the rescue of the inner man. Think of a bully who hogs all the food so that the weaker one gets nothing. That is the way of the world...AND that is the way we have learned to survive in the world. But we need no longer do this because of the Lord's grace provision to be strengthened in the inner man. Eph. 3:16 that He would grant you, according to the riches of His glory, to be strengthened with might through His Spirit in the inner man, 17 that Christ may dwell in your hearts through faith; that you, being rooted and grounded in love, 18 may be able to comprehend with all the saints what is the width and length and depth and height— 19 to know the love of Christ which passes knowledge; that you may be filled with all the fullness of God. What is the provision to get the natural man out of the way of this pipeline of grace to the inner man? The cross of Christ. The cross of Christ breaks the husk of the outer natural man...so that the inner man is reachable to God to be filled with His grace. So then with the outer man we take on religious ideas and opinions. But these stand in the way of the truth...which is life in Christ. It is therefore the life of Christ (the truth) which sets us free. Free in the natural man? NO...the inner man. Most people will not receive a doctrine that breaks up what they identify with as being themselves because they are ignorant of their own true condition...They will rail against the truth (and again I am speaking of many Christians here) in favour of a scheme that saves them according to their lack of knowledge of themselves. Look at the condition of the church (Laodicea) in the last days. Laodicea means the opinions of the people....or a people who have received the "truth" ...but not in the inner man. They have taken on the gospel so as to save themselves...but the wrong part. God resists the proud outer man but gives grace to the humble inner man. The outer man is incapable of faith...but he is capable of belief. Why is this? Because the outer man is NEVER going to receive eternal things. The natural man is meant to be broken in order to give access to the inner man...the man that is called to faith. Any short circuiting of the truth by the natural man causes the inner man to remain as is always was...weak and destitute. It takes real faith to forsake the natural man and look to God. But that is what we are called to do.

Now this may come as a shock to modern ears...but we need to buy from the Lord the entrance into His kingdom. Is. 55:1 “Come, everyone who thirsts, come to the waters; and he who has no money, come, buy and eat! Come, buy wine and milk without money and without price. The difference between wisdom and foolishness in the parable of the 10 virgins is that half of them neglected to buy more oil for their lamps... Mat. 25:9 But the wise answered, saying, Not so; lest there be not enough for us and you: but go ye rather to them that sell, and buy for yourselves. 10 And while they went to buy, the bridegroom came; and they that were ready went in with him to the marriage: and the door was shut. To the Laodiceans who thought they had everything already Jesus counsels them... Rev. 3:18 I counsel thee to buy of me gold tried in the fire, that thou mayest be rich; and white raiment, that thou mayest be clothed, and that the shame of thy nakedness do not appear; and anoint thine eyes with eyesalve, that thou mayest see. 19 As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten: be zealous therefore, and repent. Do we not take seriously Jesus words and parables meant to teach us the ways of the kingdom? Mat. 13:44 The kingdom of heaven is like treasure hidden in a field. When a man found it, he hid it again, and in his joy he went and sold all he had and bought that field. This is about being a disciple of Christ. Luke 14:33 So likewise, whosoever he be of you that forsaketh not all that he hath, he cannot be my disciple. The cost of oneness in Christ ...is all we have and are.

I am getting so confused about some of the teachings of the bible and I'm trying to figure out what is right and what is not. When I read what different Christians have to say about some of these things, it is more confusing, as there are often opposite views. Without getting into specifics, how do you determine the correct meaning of the bible when it seems to back up opposing views and when different teachers have opposing views as well? Is there a method to use? I am guessing that you will want specifics, but I'd really like to know a method to use instead of triggering a debate.

We often judge by behaviour. Whether a person conforms to our standards or our groups standards. As you say we're not stamped from the same mould, but we are tainted by the same sin and saved by the same saviour. We are also under attack from the same enemy who like any fisherman uses what ever bait gets the most catches and legalism is ever so appealing as it minimises the need for a saviour and gives us responcibility.

Amen turtletwo praise God!

Ephesians 3:14-19 For this reason I bow my knees before the Father, from whom every family[in heaven and on earth is named, that according to the riches of his glory he may grant you to be strengthened with power through his Spirit in your inner being, so that Christ may dwell in your hearts through faith—that you, being rooted and grounded in love, may have strength to comprehend with all the saints what is the breadth and length and height and depth, and to know the love of Christ that surpasses knowledge, that you may be filled with all the fullness of God.

God's dealings with Israel: "I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit in you; I will remove from you your heart of stone and give you a heart of flesh. And I will put my Spirit in you and move you to follow my decrees and be careful to keep my laws." (Ezekiel 36:26-27) I guess you could say God was doing 'heart surgery' on them. lol Likewise, when we come to Christ He does a mighty supernatural work in us. We are born again and all things become new...including our heart. Praise the Lord! Our rebellious 'me-only heart' is replaced by one that loves the Lord and yearns to please Him.

You are welcome and thank you : )) I thought it was a brilliant way of putting it..

Shalom Sonshine, Thank you for agreeing. I'm glad someone out there does! Although, I predict we'll see more "OSAS vs Legalism" posts before the week is out. Yawn... Love & Shalom

Matthew 22:37 Jesus replied: "'Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.'

Life and death is like the daily routine here in the world. On the Green Mile and those who are on death watch waiting for their turn to die.. I have heart disease. Life becomes very fragile. So is it death watch or life watch. Every one is subject, but the interpretation comes into play For the world life is like playing dodge ball stealing cookies from the cookie Jar along the way defying death. They clime the most dangerous mountain pitting their life against the most dangerous mountain pitting their life against the mountain. They jump out of planes at thirty thousand feet. You get what you pay for. This is the worlds interpretation of life. Still we all have a date with destiny. I came to visit a friend in the Hospital who developed mersa in his legs. This day my friend was doped up with drugs could not stay awake. I sked why he was so drugged. They would not tell me. Then I knew he was on death watch. He died a short time after. But Doug didn't really die My wife Susan a year ago She had to many issues that the Hospital. She was on death watch also. She kept say she loved me. She died that night, but for all who have taken Jesus its a fast elevator ride to heaven. I've been on death watch for a long time but the sand in the hour glass is quickly running out so I look up At Susan's smiling face and tell her I be there soon. I know because I have blessed hope and Susan and I will be waling with Jesus through eternity together. The world holds on to its bag of gold they find the their bag is eaten by the moths and. Their will not be a party waiting for them but where they go I hear its a little warm.

This item is used with a team of harnessed horses for keeping the rein lines straight from the horse's bit to the hands of the driver. It is called a "horse harness line spreader" The rings in your pic is made of celluloid. The one's in your pic may or may not be vintage as these are still used today and one can purchase them with more or less rings depending on the drivers need.

Think of future children. Is he going to allow them to attend Christian churches and profess Christianity? I know quite a few Muslims and yes, the ones I know are good and kind and funny and friendly. [I pray for them regularly.] But when it come to their faith - they are NOT leaving it. And their children are indoctrinated in their faith from the beginning. It's going to hurt like crazy - but you MUST break this off. Unless he [and I might add his parents] do convert, there is a strong likelihood of future sorrow for you. Sorrow that will hurt a hundredfold more than it does now.] The same would be said if he were an atheist, Buddhist, Mormon, Hindi, or anything else opposed to Christianity.

Hi Margo, When we realize how much God loves us, so much that He gave His only begotten Son to die for us, how can we not but love Him with our whole heart? But at the same time, we don't live by feelings but by every word of God. How do we get to know God? By reading His Word, He will let you know how valuable you are to Him, Jesus would have died for only you..isn't He amazing? Blow Up, Dry Up, or Grow Up If you have the Spirit without the Word, you blow up. If you have the Word without the Spirit, you dry up. If you have both the Word and the Spirit, you grow up.

I'm going to answer this from a practical viewpoint of considering what life will look like for you many years down the line. I've been married for over 30 years now. We had both been Christians for a number of years before we got married. We both come from Christian families with parents (and grandparents) on their first marriages. We have a similar outlook on life and similar priorities. We know many Christian couples that have been married for decades as well. There's not a one of us that would say marriage is easy. The two main reasons we're all still married are 1) that we all had much more in common than we had differences and 2) we married people of good character and integrity without a lot of red flags about them. I know many Christians whose marriages have been disasters and often ended up separated or divorced. Often it is because they ignored many red flags before marrying someone (which has included marrying Christians who really needed to clean up their own act first). The majority of Christians I know go into marriage with a clearcut sense that it is for life. However, ignoring red flags often ends up putting one into a very bad situation. I've seen a lot of marriages over my life, both those that have gone well and those that have not. My gut instincts are that it is a strong probability that if you continue with this relationship that years from now you will kick yourself for having gotten into it. A good friend who's now been a pastor for nearly 40 years gave some good marriage advice in a sermon. He described marriages as going through three general stages: infatuation, disillusionment, and contentment. The majority of marriages (and most relationships) start off with both partners infatuated with each other. You sound like you are fully in the infatuation stage where you cannot image life apart from your boyfriend. There's a good chance that within the next few years that disillusionment will start to set in. The burning passion, longing, and infatuation starts to evaporate and one finds oneself stuck with the reality of the other person and they'll probably be feeling the same way. This happens in pretty much every marriage. It's in the disillusionment stage that most marriages that are going to end do so. After disillusionment fully sets in, what keeps a marriage together is commitment, character, and integrity. Having a common outlook on life, supportive families, supportive friends, and having stable influences in both of your lives is what allows a couple to move to the contentment stage. You see each other fairly clearly (both pros and cons), you're comfortable together, and you've become partners for life. I cannot imagine life without my wife right now. Having said that, there are occasionally some nights we both sleep on opposite sides of the bed as far apart as we can without falling off the edge or one of us heads to the couch. One of the biggest blessings in my life is my wife's family. There is no drama. Get togethers are enjoyable and relaxing. I cannot imagine what it is like for people where drama and fighting are common place in family relationships. The infatuation stage will be great for a few years, but then it is about character, how much a couple has in common, and what type of support structure they have around them that helps move them through disillusionment to contentment. What do you think life will look like 5 to 10 years from now if you stay in this relationship and get married? He and his family and friends are likely to consider your children as Muslims and view them as belonging primarily to him rather than you. Will he expect you to eat halal food? Dress appropriately? Observe Ramadan and other things? How will his family and friends treat you as a non-muslim? Will there be pressure for you to convert? I don't know what country you are in, or where he and his family might be from. You may face some nasty political and custody situations down the line if something starts falling apart in the relationship. You will very likely come directly face to face with what Muslims really think of Christians. Will your Muslim husband stand up for you as a Christian? or will he start to expect you to convert? I know a pastor from Nigeria (where there is much Muslim on Christian violence occurring). His comment about Muslims was this: they are honest friendly good people, but you never know when they will show up with torches and machetes in the middle of the night to kill you because some imam or cleric told them to because you are an infidel. I'm NOT saying your boyfriend would do this. However, if you continue in this relationship, you (and potentially your children) will likely come to face to face with the dark side of Islam that sees you as an infidel that needs to be converted and that your children might need to be protected from you. I can tell you with near certainty that the infatuation and deep longing you feel right now will evaporate and change over time. Without that, would you really have anything in common with your boyfriend that would draw you to him? If you continue with this relationship, you've got a good shot at having a few years of infatuation and good times. However at some point (likely within the next 3 to 5 years), the reality of who you both really are and want from life will start to determine the quality of the relationship and your life (and potentially your children's lives).

Im sorry helena, but if you are a Christian, you should not marry a muslim. It would have been better if you had not started dating him to begin with. The bible is clear that we are not to be unequally yoked, meaning a Christian shouldnt marry someone who isnt a Christian. In addition, since the husband is supposed to be the spiritual head of your house, how can a muslim properly be a spiritual head? A muslim is not saved. A muslim is spiritually blind. I know its painful, but this is not a relationship you should be in.

God will not judge a person based on their religious beliefs but on the works...of what kind they are. We will be judged for what we have done with what we have been given.

Discovering God's ways is like going to an art exhibit of an Artist with the most creative genius. His ways are above our own. They are to be admired, pondered upon...and allowed to penetrate into our consciousness...until we understand the intent, style, and ways of the Artist. The messages, seemingly very hidden and deeply woven into the art, strike you as you let your gaze penetrate into the brush strokes of the Master. But God's ways begin with a backdrop. Here in Quebec there is an artist who always paints his canvas black before doing anything else. It gives his colours a unique contrast...giving it an unmistakable signature so that you can tell his paintings from others right away. God does something similar but in an much larger way of course. God's backdrop is love. Everything that He paints ...He does so on the canvas...His canvas...which is love. Next comes the setting. We could liken this to the things that others are set against....like say the mountains in the background. These are the laws that God orders everything in. Without these laws...nothing in the foreground has any context or relevance. NO, God's paintings are not just for show...they support all life. But life has order. It follows laws. Without order there would be only chaos. In fact, the order is so precise that one can see the Artist in every living thing. Everything moves and is according to His laws.

by Jordan Hilger, Worthy News Correspondent (Worthy News) - U.K. Foreign Secretary Jeremy Hunt pledged support from his country for war-torn Nigeria on Wednesday, where the Boko Haram arm of the Islamic State has massacred countless scores of Christians. During a stop in Maiduguri, Borno State, Northeast Nigeria, where the terrorist organization killed 25 people returning from a wedding this week, Mr Hunt said the U.K. “will continue to support Nigeria in the fight to give people secure, prosperous and happy lives," adding that the possibility of the U.K. lending military support to the Nigerian government was not off the table. Hunt, who is a Christian himself, was at the helm of an effort in December to analyze the U.K.’s policy toward persecuted Christians worldwide, a project that is being supervised by the Bishop of Truro, Philip Mountstephen, and due to be completed this Summer. “Of all the people who suffer persecution for their faith, it may surprise some to know that the greatest number are Christian,” Hunt said of the impetus for the project while commenting on the Easter carnage in Sri Lanka a few weeks ago. In an additional gesture of support, at the end of Lent this year the Foreign Secretary sent 40 letters of solidarity to global Christian leaders, foremost among them Brother Andrew (Andrew van der Bijl), the Dutchman who smuggled Bibles behind the Iron Curtain and later founded persecution advocacy group Open Doors. "I want you to know that the UK stands in solidarity with persecuted Christians around the world," Hunt wrote to the famous missionary, who received the first of the Foreign Secretary’s epistles. Nigeria is perhaps the most lethal place to be a Christian in the entire world. In July of 2018, the Nigerian House of Representatives acknowledged killings of Christians that had occurred in Plateau state as “genocide.” That spate of violence against believers by Muslim Fulani Herdsmen accounted for more than a quarter of the Christians killed worldwide in 2018, while the total death toll of Christians in Nigeria last year made up some 86% of global martyrdoms, according to Open Doors U.S.A.’s 2019 World Watch List. The post U.K. Foreign Secretary Jeremy Hunt ‘Appalled’ By Global Persecution of Christians appeared first on Worthy Christian News. View the full article

Just found this: Theology. The Apostolic Church views the Scriptures as the supreme authority and understands them to be the inerrant Word of God. ... Its theological beliefs are summarized in its confession of faith, known as the Tenets, which read as follows: The unity of the Godhead and the trinity of the Persons therein.

not at all.... in keeping with the décor at the Cracker Barrel, it should be something old

Hi all, I see people think that it all depends on our conscience. But who has a perfect conscience. We have all come from the kingdom of darkness and our minds are being transformed bit by bit. So our conscience is NOT the final say BUT the word of God. `And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, BUT RATHER EXPOSE THEM.` (Eph. 5: 11) Jayne has exposed the revolting, wicked behaviour, the unfruitful works of darkness on the GOT, and we should all flee, for our conscience will get seared by watching it, dulled and not quickened to the Holy Spirit, but the spirit of the world. Also there are other things for us to relate to unbelievers. (Poor excuse) Marilyn.

If I may add to gandalfs sage advice ... My brother who is not a Christian married a muslim woman. His marriage has been a disaster and is now ended. There is a lot of terrible baggage from his relationship with his adult kids due to the islamic influence of his ex wife and her family.

Hi Brother Notlad, Those names sound quite a mouthful. When the different denominations started up over the centuries they actually stood for a truth that was being clarified by the Holy Spirit - eg Baptists, (baptism by immersion) Methodists, (holy living) Pentecostal, (Holy Spirit infilling) Apostolic, (5 fold ministries). However today we see that the Holy Spirit who is guiding the believers into all truth, is not bound by man`s names of organisations. Thus titles have come and gone as being the only ones standing for a particular truth. Today each fellowship group is mainly directed as to what the CEO, (leader) decides. Many leaders desire for people to grow and mature, however the actual constraints of the organisation can be holding people back. I personally believe that it is mainly in the informal times that people get together and share that there is real `body ministry` each giving to the other of what the Holy Spirit has given them. I seem to have gone on from your OP but thought it does need some explanation regarding `names.` regards, Marilyn.

Thanks Gandalf, for taking the time in writing out in detail, the potential disaster this relationship could end up like. Although no absolutes here, a good deal of the things described are very likely. God bless. Shalom, David/BeauJangles

The Muslim and the Christian do not have the same understanding of who God is. You are a born again Christian? Do you love Jesus Christ? Then why would you want to compromise your faith for a Muslim boyfriend?

if a woman is not a muslim, they should spend some time learning about the Islamic way of life before even dating someone who is muslim. It is not a real pretty sight. A Christian woman definitely should not marry a Muslim....

I'm just a hunk, a hunk of burning love, just a hunk, a hunk of burning love !

I am quite aware that those things are what God told the Israelite's to do. They are the feasts of God. Thought you might need a refresher course, because if you don't understand the feasts of God, you will not understand what will occur in the future. And being Jewish, Paul certainly knew what the last trump was when he wrote about it, and also the first trump and the great trump. As I said before......... In Judaism, there are three trumpets that have a name. They are the first trump, the last trump, and the great trump. Each of these trumpets occur in the Jewish year and represent a specific day. The first trump is blown on the Feast of Shavuot (Pentecost) . The last trump occurs on Rosh HaShanah, the Feast of Trumpets. The great trumpet is blown on Yom Kippur, which will herald the return of the Messiah back to earth. Paul and the Jews know what the last trump is, as they blow it every year. It is the Gentile that is clueless of Gods feast and what they represent. Many believe that the last trump is the 7th trump, that is blown by an angel, which wasn't even known about until John had his revelation, many decades later.

If you ask any Messianic Jew if tribulation means WRATH they will laugh at you. That is a false presumption of a Christian who believes they are more special than the Jew. But you get this idea from your misinterpreted English Bible. It's like looking at 1 Corinthians 15: 51Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, 52In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. ...and believing this means Pre-Trib while forgetting verse 52 specifies this is talking about the "last trump." Paul even clarifies this in 1 Thess: 16For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: 17Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. This Trump in verse 17 is the LAST TRUMP in verse 52. And Yeshua clarifies when this happens in Matthew 24, at the end of Tribulation.

Now let me show you something interesting. AS you know, i write a lot about the Blood of Jesus and the Grace of God. OSAS. And there are Legalist that would falsely accuse me of "preaching cheap grace, and a license to sin" on this forum..... Were you aware that this happens to me, nearly every day im here? So, let me show you something so that you and others here who have an issue with OSAS, can understand OSAS properly. You have admitted that you watch a TV show, that is NC or "R" Rated, and its been on the Air for years. So, in this show, according to you, for years, there is Nudity in it, ....Nudity. So, if you've it only watched one Episode, or, if you have watched every GOT episode for the last 7 years, then you have seen a lot of Nudity, i would suspect, according to your description. Now, here is what is interesting. I would tell you that you are sinning, and continuing to do it, for as long as you have been watching GOT. And i would tell you that you should never have started watching the program, because you should have REVIEWED it first to make certain it does not contain graphic sexual content that a Christian should never ever watch, as this is not what you do, if you want to please the Lord and life a life FOR God. That is what i would tell you, and just did, and i realize that you and others here, might not agree, but, that is what i Believe, and that is what OSAS teaches. So, that is how OSAS, teaches, regarding how we as born again Christians should live our lives IN FRONT OF, God and Christ, as well as other Brethren. WE are to live HOLY.......as much as we can.......always. Now, if you think this is me giving you a "license to Sin" as a Legalist would falsely accuse OSAS of teaching, then you are wrong about this, also. B

Now Jayne, don't bail on us now... There are a good many here that do not approve of Game of Thrones. Myself included. It is or was a program that like most soap operas, are and can be addictive. I did like movies like, Lord of the Rings, The Hobbit, etc. Others like the Harry Potter sequels, well, a little too dark and witchy for me personally. Anyway, all that aside, you're loved and needed here at Worthy, so not so fast on taking off. Hope this message gets to you somehow. God bless. Shalom, David/BeauJangles

Hi nigh, People have twisted that scripture for their own ends - domination of women. So let`s see what the Greek says - `quietness/silence` Gk. hesuchazo, from hesuchazo, meaning meddlesomeness. So Paul is saying that women should not be meddlesome but listen quietly, (as should men, but women are more prone to butt in). Then assume `authority` Gk. ``authenteo,` meaning to act of oneself, dominate. So Paul is saying that women should not dominate men, and actually men are not to lord it over others either. (1 Peter 5: 3) Summing up we see that the Apostle Paul is saying that women should not be meddlesome or dominate men. We see women teaching in God`s word and prophesying, evangelising, etc. So it is not in regard to proper ministry but when women try to interrupt and dominate a meeting. Women are often quick to talk and thus there needs to be restraint in our behaviour when gathering together, so we don`t interrupt and lead off into our own agenda. And the same behaviour would be expected in other settings - not meddlesome and not dominating. regards, Marilyn.