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If it’s just to dedicate the infant to Christ than it means something, if it is intended to “save” the infant than it is meaningless.

Quoting an excerpt of the introduction to the Book The Bible Jesus Read by Dr. Thomas McCall, and Zola Levitt, two teachers I have found creditable over the years: "Obviously the Old testament was the Bible Jesus read. The New testament was gradually produced after the time of Christ, so that the Messiah, His disciples, and apostles, as well as all of the original Christin churches initially used only what we cll the Old testament as their Bible. All of their doctrines, all of their evangelism,and all of their practices in daily life came from the Hebrew Scriptures. Christianity was born and bred in the old Testament." Jesus knew and loved the old testament above al other books. it was constantly on His mind and the magnificent prophecies and exciting sagas rang through all of His teaching. He quoted it profusely and, in fact, in all of His recorded lessons, he never quited any other book. The Old testament was the continuous guide of His own life, and was understood by Him to express the very will of God. He never questioned its truthfulness and He considered every word-even every "jot and title" to be of eternal significance. The personalities of the Old Testament were very real to Jesus as the people of his own genration, whether they lived four hundred years or four thousand years before. Oddly, followers of Jesus today-those who seek to walk in His very footsteps-do not appear to appreciate the Old Testament nearly as much as He did. To many Christians today, and many Jews as well, the Old Testament is an outmoded, cryptic, closed book. Many regard it as a collection of antiquated and superseded doctrines, events, and personalities. At worst th eold Testament has been regarded as confusing and even at variance to authentic Christian teaching. But rightly understood, the Old testament is the foundation upon which the great truths of the New testament rest." .... From the introduction to the book The Bible Jesus Read by Dr. Thomas McCall and Zola Levitt

Simply said, we have isolated non-believers to a different section of the forums ... due to the fact that many believers DO NOT HAVE A HEART to truly reach them. Also, they do not have the patience or wherewithal to have deeper discussions without becoming frustrated. So they have a place where they can communicate with seasoned believers who have such a heart.

Hey Susan, welcome to Worthy, ...bearing good fruit is accomplishing the things Father has for us to do for Him as we walk in faith, being guided and directed by the Holy Spirit. Father knew us in His mind before He created anything, He knew everything we would think, say and do, so when we are born again we become His child and He has work planned for us to do for Him. The Holy Spirit writing through Paul explains it like this: ...being predestinated according to the purpose of Him who works all things according to the counsel of His own will, Eph 1:11b Lord bless

They say that ..."the The New Testament is in the Old Testament concealed...and the Old Testament is in the New Testament revealed. " I like that. God is building us up level by level. From the ground floor of obscure sounding prophecies given to a few in the OT...to the upper room of visitation from God for all in the NT. From righteousness to holiness. From what a man can do by his own obedience and righteousness to the laws of God...to an entrance into Christ in order to take on HIS obedience and His righteousness by a new and living way which fulfills the law...in us! The Old Testament remains the place where we learn what righteousness is. We learn how God has laid out His holy requirements. The New Testament reveals the power of God (grace) in order to fulfill those requirements. But we need both Testaments to make up the godly equation. What's the point of having the answer if we don't understand the question?

Job 4:6 (NASB) "Is not your fear of God your confidence, And the integrity of your ways your hope? Job 8:20a (NASB) "Lo, God will not reject a man of integrity,~~~~~ Integrity of heart. Walking in the integrity of our heart before God. None of us have arrived. All of us are on our courses set before us by God, if our hearts would be His. A honest heart that has integrity is called for. A heart that would know truth, a heart that would love truth. Truth being the foundation of all things that would abide. For only truth will stand through the fire of God’s gaze. Though it may be wrong and not see, it is the integrity of heart that will itself see it through. As the integrity of the heart of Job saw him through. Though he did not see or understand, in the integrity of his heart he spoke. Though he spoke from ignorance, but it was the integrity of his heart, is that that protected his ignorance from the fire of God and being that thing that caused Job even though he was speaking out of ignorance, to be able to stand before God and be pleasing to Him. Only the ignorance was done away with, which in turn caused great growth in Job, whereby in the end Job rejoices in God in a state of growth and of less ignorance, which naturally causes a deeper joy, rejoicing, enjoying of one’s life before God. The integrity of heart that would know righteousness. The integrity of what we know and believe to be right, is what we walk in. Though we may be wrong, we are not conscious of any wrong. We are trying to hide nothing from God, or do we demand our own way before God. We have laid our hearts and life’s open before Him, and we have done this over and over again, have committed our way to Him. Though we don’t know, don’t see, don’t understand, in so many areas. Still with a heart that would be made all His, do we press into Him. A heart that would do righteousness, if only it could see what it was. Whether it was up or down, to the left or right. The desire to know what is right. If only we could see, if only our eyes were opened a little more. To see a little clearer, a little deeper, to understand a little more. To search into this mystery called; “Christ our life”. To walk before God with a heart that is open to Him in all things. To walk in all the light we see. Though we may be wrong in area after area, when we are showed, we are quick to turn, quick to admit wrong, quick to turn back from self to God. For all wrong only comes from and through, looking at self, to do something for us, that only God can do. For in that is the foundation of repentance, a turning from self to God. For if it’s me, it’s sin, if it’s Christ, it’s not; The integrity of the heart that will be willing to accept such a truth, is the heart that will go far before God. The integrity of heart that will only look and care for what is right. Personalities and things matter not to a heart that has integrity in itself. For integrity of heart demands that right, sees that it alone is the bar that all things are to be weighed against. Truth and righteousness are it’s strength, it’s hope, it’s desire. Integrity of heart that says; “righteousness does exist” therefore righteousness is that that I will search out after. The heart who’s internal integrity will demand nothing less of itself. Knows that it itself is wrong, but this God who has called it to Himself will perfect that which concerns it, if only it maintains this integrity of heart. Blessed be God, for when Jesus died, we died, and in that faith, is our strength, and our integrity of heart. For in that faith, is our only hope, in the strength of His death. Blessings to all that would, pray, long after, and desire such a integrity of heart. Much love in Christ, Not me

flesh IS crucified with Christ. Emotions are not part of the flesh....but of the soul, which is to be transformed, not crucified. man......what a mess.

Yes we are told to be content with what we have, there is great godliness in contentment. It usually refers to material things, but it applies to most anything. We should be thankful in all things. Thanksgiving will help.

Paedobaptism, or infant baptism, is not taught nor directed in the New Testament. What is taught and directed and frankly, commanded, is believer's baptism, credobaptism. If someone wants to baptize their infant, it's not a sin. However, if they believe that sprinkling some water on an infant's head guarantees their entrance into heaven, they are following a lie from the Father of Lies. Water does not save. A believer is baptized by full immersion as prescribed by the New Testament to show their dying with the Lord and their raising to new life with him. Jesus saves alone via the Holy Spirit's conviction of sin and God's drawing of the sinner to himself. Neither baptism saves. But only one baptism is taught by the Bible - full immersion AFTER one is saved.

too cold.... dodging tornados are much better than freezing your back side all winter..

If I had a new gun

My niece just had her first child yesterday & her & her husband plan to have the baptism in a couple weeks. I started to wonder what others believe regarding infant baptism. What are your thoughts?

A 'Christening' or dedication to the Lord is perfectly alright. I've seen dedications where the infant is anointed with oil, and felt that had more scriptural significance. Just a thought. All denominations are different on this, and some don't practice it at all.

Of course. But it is more crucial that I pray for my husband's heart to be changed by God than be distractd by feelings of broodiness. Only God can take out his heart of stone and give him a heart of flesh for sure and I need to keep praying for him.

You can not save your husband. Only God can open the heart of your husband. Be a Christian example for your husband. Perhaps he can see God through you and what being a Christian is all about. Continue to pray for your husband.

Baptism is the means by which a person makes a public profession of faith and discipleship. Infant baptism is not a biblical practice. An infant does not have the mental ability to know who God is or to obey. An infant will not go to hell if he or she dies. They will automatically go to heaven until the age of accountability. The Bible does not say what age this is. It is an age when the child knows who Jesus Christ is and can grasp the fact that Jesus Christ died on the cross of their sins. I have seen a children dedicated by the Pastor at a Church I have attended. The Pastor prays for the child and that is great.

Miss Muffet, Thank you for your response. I now see that the enemy has been trying to distract me from my usual non stop, continuous, daily prayers for my husband's soul. I spent yesterday praying about babies and thinking about being pregnant and neglected to fight for my husband in the spiritual realm. I will indeed be grateful for my abundant blessings and repent for yesterday.

Abdicate, You have hit the nail on the head. I have been growing deeper and deeper in my faith lately and really making headway in my prayer, especially prayers for my husband to be saved, when the strong urge to have a baby came back with force and consumed me all day. I prayed about it and thought about it all day and my husband's soul didnt get a mention. I wonder if the enemy has been trying to distract me! I am going to be thankful for my kids and leave the future in Gods hand while I continurle to go to war for my husband's soul, which I had been doing up until yesterday when I turned to mush thinking about a new baby, when the most important new birth should be that of my husband.

You and your husband have different views on how many children you want. This can bring problems in the marriage. The other fact that can bring problems in your marriage is that you are not evenly yoked. You should count your blessing because you have two children. Many husbands and wives who want children can not have them. It is good that you have prayed about this.

Thank you BeauJangles. No I didnt mean a deal (at all lol) but more a mindset, an outlook, a way to frame my thoughts biblically and move on. The overarching 'strategy' I have picked up on here is to be content with what I have, and rightly so! Thanks.

@Debp This is helpful advice for us all. I am someone who struggles with swallowing issues (and is concerned about choking on food.) I appreciate you sharing this.

I knew a guy who in the early 90s, was convinced the tribulation would be around the turn of the century. After he did his research he chose Medford Oregon and moved there, based on not only freedom from natural disasters, not too harsh a climate, lack of military significance, low chance of experiencing fallout, relatively low population (less competition for survival), ability to hunt and fish, and gather plants for food, etc. He even wrote a book called "Christians will go through the tribulation: And how to prepare for it."

Baptism into the Body Of Christ is the Baptism that counts......make sure you get that one! Believe 1cor15:1-4 and you are in.

It will be a purr-fect day when my adult daughter is finally able to sort out her life issues and begin to make sound wise decisions with the Bible as her Guidepost.

So bearing good fruit is related to being in a lawful state?

In gleaning these key factor thoughts, it's admirable the willingness to submit to your husband, though not a believer. This is no easy thing for you as his spouse, and is commendable. From the message I'm getting, the desires you have for another child, do not supersede that of his wishes in the matter. This is pleasing to the Lord, and if you ask of Him in all sincerity, He will give you more than sufficient thankfulness for the blessings already bestowed upon both of you. The last statement highlighted however, would bring you to be mindful that it's not profitable to try and 'make a deal' with God. I could be reading more into what is emphasized, however. God bless you. Try and be content with what you have. It's beautiful as is.

Not to mention the occasional circumstance of tragedy by avalanche.

It seems to me some people get upset over this issue without making an effort to understand the other side. People who believe in infant baptism have a good reason: They believe that you need to be baptized before you can get into heaven, and they want to make sure their children get into heaven. On the other hand, some people believe a person should make his, or her, own decision about whether or not they want to be baptized. Both arguments seem legitimate to me.

From what I googled, when it comes to the safest states with the least natural disasters Michigan is number 1. Second is Minnesota, third, Illinois and fourth Vermont. based on this article. https://www.worldatlas.com/articles/the-10-states-safest-from-natural-disasters.html

Say no more. I'm on it lol.

As a huge Ohio State Buckeye fan , it pains me to say it.....Michigan appears to be the safest state.....Regardless, I’d rather fight tornadoes here in Ohio than move to....ugh...” that state up north”....lol.....

Ive thought of that also.......some ambitious person ought to research it! Somebody ,perhaps a retired person with too much time on their hands could volunteer.......uh oh.......that would be me ! I think I’ll do some research......i shall return......

Agreed. I couldn't imagine dealing with earthquakes, honestly, I don't like natural disasters of any kind. I wonder if there's a state that has the least amount of natural disasters. if so I'd love to move there.

Hi TheWhiteDove (this is a lovely name by the way) I can understand your yearning for more children as I only have one child and way passed child bearing years, but oh I truly wished i was able to have more. Please continue to thank God for what He has provided you. He is our powerful Lord and he answers all prayers that are in His will. God is good and loves you and knows the pain you are feeling. Continue to focus on your precious children and embrace the wonderful family you have. Remember, God tells us not to worry about tomorrow as today has it's own set of problems. Tomorrow, can bring a change of heart to your husband. God is in Control. "Not that i speak in respect of want: for i have learned, in whatsoever state that i am, therewith to be content." Phillipians 4:11

God reveals the truth to those who seek the truth and who keep seeking the truth (don't seek today and stop tomorrow). The 'knowledge' of religious teachers is most often used to deceive multitudes, from what the Word of God says . The salvation and faith of those who trust and rely on the Father, is a daily , continual experience, not a one time does it fact, as shown all through Scripture, TORAH, PROPHETS, PSALMS and NEW TESTAMENT even just in poor ol' "English" language. Follow Jesus. Follow the Shepherd. What happens if someone stops following Jesus ? Repent. What happens if a sheep stops following the Shepherd ? Hope it doesn't end in destruction, eaten by the wolves or worse. A lost sheep? Jesus goes after. He is a good Shepherd, perfect in fact.

Chili with onions and cheese ? yum yum ! :) (in Texas or anywhere ! )

There will be time after the rise of the beast to help those in shock when rapture predictions don't come to pass.

We humbly beseech your forgiveness, your lordship. (And thanks for the typo correction.)

Well, Israel is the bride. If we are not the seed of Abraham we are not in Christ. No such thing as a separate church in Christ and a Jew in Christ. All who are alive at the time will experience the end of the age. There is no early train. But dont worry. Jesus is watching over us. If the greatest army ever is set against us we will prevail in the power and Love of our Lord Jesus Christ. Meaning our body may die, yet we will live forever in Christ. Who cares about the body? The natural cannot inherit the kingdom, only the spirit inherits eternal glory and power in the promises of God and the majesty of Christ.

11:29 CDT on July 9, 2019 Dimension 4 planet Earth.

some people are saying that the Big One might happen pretty soon in Southern C.A. that is really scary but I agree that prayer changes things

No. One bride, all together till Jesus returns, all taken together at Jesus return. As far as worthy goes... We are worthy to partake of the sufferings of Christ. We are worthy because of Jesus and endure suffering for His name; any suffering does not make us worthy, we have been deemed worthy already and can endure any amount of suffering right up to death.

The idea is that whoever is alive will not be taken before the beginning of the last week but translated off the earth alive at His coming. "By the word of the Lord, we declare to you that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who have fallen asleep. For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a loud command, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God, and the dead in Christ will be the first to rise. After that, we who are alive and remain will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will always be with the Lord." - 1 Thess 4

I have noticed that in the above it's assumed that Jesus cannot come for us, the elect, then a short time after, maybe a half hour or so, alight on the Mount of Olives. More than once I have heard this idea that coming in the clouds for believers both alive and dead cannot be associated with Jesus gathering us from the earth to the clouds then staying and coming to the ground to defeat His enemy. What prevents this? Are we to believe it's impossible for Jesus to gather the elect and then within minutes or hours stand on the Mount of Olives, cleave the Mount, create a great valley where the remnant takes refuge, and then commence pouring the anger of God and Himself upon the rebels of the world? That's an impossible scenario? An all powerful God cannot do this? So Jesus cannot come in the air where we all meet Him, then proceed to place his feet on the dirt and stone of the Mount shortly after? It's the same as a firefighter rescuing a person from a burning building, making sure they are far enough away from the fire so they are safe and sound, then returning to fight the fire then and there. Not 7 years later, not a month later, not tomorrow, right then. And why are the armies that come with our Lord Jesus identified as resurrected believers both alive and dead? I have heard the argument that goes like this: "Jesus is going to take His bride off the earth before the tribulation because He loves His bride and would never let her come to harm." But now under the same doctrine that believes that, Jesus is going to take His bride to war. And how do we know the armies are not angels? Are not angels clothed in white? Is it only the elect that receives pure, clean, white linen vestment? No scripture or logical process prevents Jesus from appearing, gathering the elect, alighting on the Mount of Olives, hiding the remnant, then immediately commence to prosecute His enemies, all within the same day or hour.

Willa and everyone, when you feel like you are starting to choke, try giving a gigantic cough like you are hacking up some phlegm. I think it works similar to the Heimlich manuever. Worth a try....has worked for me. _--------------------------- About the topic, I don't like extreme heights such as being on top of a high building. But then, no real reason for me to be up there! I am fine with flying....love to fly. I also wouldn't want an MRI, going into that odd tube.

..."there is no shortcut to breakthrough" Maybe not on Jesus' part, but there sure was for me. For I had no interest in God nor a god at all, but God The Holy Spirit just up and spun me about in an instant. Was not of me, by any desire or work, nor any of my doing at all. And here it is some several decades later and that work of God alone is still intact without even a bit of me in play to complete it. I am not seen by God as wretched; but instead God who cannot abide sin sees me as washed white as snow, in the shed blood sacrifice of His Son alone.

Curled up with a good book and good stuff to eat. That would be a good day but not really perfect. I don't think that will happen until I get to heaven.

gnosis and epignosis are pretty much the same word... epi- is a preposition all those words related to "ginosko" refer to "intellectual apprehension of facts...knowledge, knowing, to know. There is another Greek word, somewhat different, that is also translated into English as know, knowing or knowledge eidō is the word both speak to apprehending information...but eido has some inclusions in it's use that "ginosko" group don't have....and I think the implications are significant. " to experience any state or condition " " to know how, to be skilled in" I think Ephesians 1:17-18 display the difference meaningfully. In verse 17, the word for knowledge is "epignosis" ...informing the mind of the facts of Jesus Christ....apprehending information. In Ephesians 1:18 the word translated as "know" is "eido" My best understanding so far is that Paul was praying a very precisely worded prayer here, and i think it's related to the difference between head and heart knowing too. But Paul seems to be asking Him to grant to us, His Spirit of wisdom and revelation, so we can intellectually apprehend the facts of who Jesus is... and that knowledge of the facts would lead to a knowing because we have experienced. To know by personally experiencing and LIVING by experience of the hope of HIS calling, the riches of HIS inheritance and know by experiencing His power. I think when head knowledge is experienced as a present reality, it becomes heart knowledge. I don't think that's the whole story, but I think it's a very significant piece of it. When I was trying to understand this a sort of parable came to mind. If you read a recipe for German chocolate cake, you KNOW (gnosis) how to bake a German chocolate cake. You have intellectually apprehended all the information you need to make one. But when you have actually measured and sifted flour, added sugar, cocoa and milk, broken eggs, baking powder...and mixed it all up, floured a pan and put it in the oven.....and then someone stomps too hard in the kitchen at just the wrong time and you get a gooey brownie instead of a fluffy cake and have to start over..... Then you KNOW (eido) how to make a chocolate cake, because you have experienced it. I believe He desires we should know about Him, and that knowing should lead us straight into an experience OF Him. And Paul majors on three things....experiencing the hope of His call, the riches of His inheritance (we're joint-heirs after all ) and specifically the most important part of His inheritance which is in the saints. He longs for me to see YOU and EXPERIENCE YOU as He does, and as He sees you....a RICH inheritance. And to know by experiencing HIS power, active and working in my life. Which the next verses identify as resurrection power. I could go on i love this passage so much....but that "eyes of your understanding" has a VERY interesting Greek word behind it too "Having your imagination shot through with light"......worlds of insight in that too

I am truly glad to hear that all those eths that cloud my comprehension of King James are a blessing to someone.

To whom it may concern; To argue over the human understanding of words, misses the meaning and intent of the spiritual truths the words are meant to portray; For God is not found in the words, God is found in the faith of the words. Blessings, Much love in Christ, Not me