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I have taken notice that there seems to be some lately who believe scripture bombing is the best way to get their point across. On the contrary, all it does is loose the attention of those they want to reach. Instead of taking the time to have a conversation, as a teacher should do, those who use this technique basically are doing just the opposite. By imposing your view with a litany of scripture, you provide a narrow view of what you belief the scripture means and discourages others to reply due to a very long list of scripture they would be required to reply to. Where is the conversation? Where is the desire to truly reach someone? It's not there. Instead, scripture bombing overwhelms the reader, nothing else. It seems this technique is a persons means of leaving the reader with a conviction that if they do not agree they are, somehow, either lacking in understanding, faith or revelation, just the opposite of what a true teacher would want their audience to feel. Instead of creating one post with many ideas, supported with many bible verses, shorten your response one idea at a time. By touching on one point at a time, you will not loose your audience and turn people away. Scripture is His word to us and should invite others to consider what is being said. It is not to be used to turn people away from understanding. Just as bible thumping never brought any positive results, scripture bombing doesn't either.

First of all, Jesus knew exactly what people needed to hear and spoke accordingly. We do not. If you look at your post you will also notice that Jesus spoke about individual subjects while keeping His answers short and to the point. Nowhere do we find Jesus quoting all the verses from the OT He knew of to support His point, as people do with scripture bombing. There is a difference and I hope that people can see that.

People are free to Scripture Bomb all they like.....but before they waste all of that valuable computer ink, I hope they know its a sure-fire way to go unread....

To Jesus do we go; In all our doubts, in all our fears, in all our confusion. In all that would trouble us. In all that would perplex us, to Jesus do we look. For He has the answers. To lean not on our own understanding. To hope in Him. To stand with our faces towards Him when all would pull us away. To trust in Him, in the large and the small things. To trust His love for us. To Jesus do we go; For He sees all, knows all, understands all. For He is the forever good. For He is the forever Teacher, the forever Instructor, He is forever Lover of us. To this Jesus do we go. For scripture says; “come unto me” says the Lover of our souls. To be taught by God and not by ourselves the things of God. To learn this truth. That unless the Lord build the house they labor in vain those that build it. So to Jesus do we go..... so He might build the house. Be blessed all as to Jesus we go, Not me

View from home yesterday (Smokey Mountains, USA). Was having a very late afternoon tea with my Sweet Peach, looked out just in time to see that the sun had backlit the turning tree leaves among the evergreens to a burning peak of colors. Looked like a flaming tree. Fall is starting, temperatures dropped to 35f just before dawn, and the leaves are doing their thing for us. Thank you Lord that there is such beauty even in this fallen creation.

Yes, they are free to do so, but at what cost to their message? As you said, they normally get unread, so they are "preaching to the air". If people just throw out scripture in such a way, what are they really trying to do? Sound knowledgeable? Show they do their homework and have a better understanding? It doesn't take much to copy and paste, but it takes understanding and wisdom to show how they should be applied to their lives. Teaching how to apply His word to our lives is not found in scripture bombing, but in communication between people.

The Trouble with Tribulation “Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of mercies and God of all comfort, who comforts us in all our tribulation…” (2 Corinthians 1:3,4a) Both our Lord and the Apostles warned us in Scripture that times of persecution would come upon the people of God. They warned us that tribulation would follow genuine devotion to Christ. Throughout the centuries the authentic followers of Jesus Christ have suffered greatly for their faith. They have been slandered, mocked, beaten, crucified, stoned, ravaged by wild beasts, tortured on the rack, sold into slavery, burned at the stake, and had their heads cut off for the sake of the true Gospel. Even today, all around the world, Christians are suffering horrible tribulation for their devotion to the Lord Jesus Christ. Now, more and more, this persecution is coming to America. And because of poor teaching, the American church is ill-prepared to deal with it. We orthodox evangelicals pride ourselves in our ability to rightly divide the Word of God. We preach and teach the Historical / Grammatical method of interpretation, and rightly so. To us, the idea of reading allegories or other foreign ideas into the text is reprehensible. We also tend to pride ourselves on our ability to weed out theological positions that are purely based on false traditions and cultic mysticism, rather than solid scriptural evidence. This is because we rightly believe the Word of God is the inerrant final authority on all matters of faith and practice. For the most part, orthodox evangelicals contend for these hermeneutical principles in every area of theology, with one exception, eschatology. When it comes to the end times, preachers use all kinds of poetic license to develop their pet theories. No longer do they adhere to the notion that the Bible interprets the Bible; and that context determines the exact meaning of words. With eschatology, they tend to speculate when the bible is silent, and they diminish the clear meaning of God’s Word when it does not fit their narrative. With eschatology, all the rules are thrown out so they can change the meaning of words (just like cult leaders do) to support their aberrant end-time doctrines. I will give you one glaring example of this trend using the word “tribulation.” The most popular end-times scenario, popularized by the late Tim Lehay and Jerry B. Jenkins in their Left Behind series of books goes something like this: The Great Tribulation is a period of future time when God’s wrath is poured out on the earth against unbelievers. This period of time lasts 7 years and marks the rise of the Antichrist. Since Christians are not subject to the wrath of God, all true believers in Christ will be raptured off planet earth just prior to the start of this seven year tribulation period. Sounds good, but there is a serious flaw in this definition of the word “tribulation.” Only a few times in scripture is the word tribulation used to speak of God’s punishment of the wicked. In 2 Thessalonians chapter one, God promises tribulation (affliction) to the ungodly immediately after He appears at His second coming. And in Revelation chapter two, Jesus says He will use tribulation (affliction) as a means of chastisement for the woman called Jezebel and those who follow her. All the rest of the references to tribulation are about Christians suffering affliction for their faith. There is a serious problem with equating the concept of the great tribulation with the wrath of God. Because these ideas are two different concepts. Predominately the word “tribulation” in Scripture means the wrath of demoniacally inspired unbelievers persecuting the true believers of God. Thus, when authentic Christians are persecuted for their steadfast loyalty to the Savior Jesus Christ, they suffer tribulation. This tribulation is the wrath of Satan on genuine born again Christians. But on the other hand, “wrath” is God punishing the wicked for their sins, especially those who persecute true believers. Therefore, one concept is the wrath of God, and the other, the great tribulation, is the wrath of Satan. Somehow through the writings of John Nelson Darby and C. I. Scofield, these concepts got intermingled and confused. To many evangelicals, Darby and Scofield are prophets of equal worth to the original 12 apostles. To them, when Scofield speaks, God must surrender to his interpretation. This is the kind of false traditionalism that many evangelicals unfortunately like. Since by their tradition, when Scofield speaks the debate is ended. And since Scofield has spoken, there is no need to test the spirits to see if they are of God. But if we really want to be true to our Reformation roots, we must examine what Darby, Scofield, Lehay, Jenkins and other pre-tribulationist say in the light of Scripture, just like anyone else. Let’s get the definition of “tribulation” and see if it fits the Scofield / Lahay scenario. In Vine’s Expository Dictionary of New Testament Words, the word tribulation means “affliction.” He wrote that the great tribulation is a time when the fury (wrath) of antichristian powers are focused on the Palestinian Jews primarily, and on the Gentile witnesses of God secondarily. In other words, the great tribulation is the distress of God’s people when they are persecuted by the enemies of God. Additionally, in Arndt and Gingrich’s Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament, tribulation is defined by the Greek words thlibo and thipsis to primarily mean the distress of Christians as they are persecuted, afflicted and troubled by outward forces and circumstances. This definition is clearly taught by our Lord as He spoke to his disciples (the church) about the end-times, “Therefore when you (the church) see the abomination of desolation spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place (whoever reads, let him understand), then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains. Let him who is on the house-top not go down to take anything out of his house. And let him who is in the field not go back to get his clothes. But woe to those who are pregnant and to those who are nursing babies in those days! And pray that your flight may not be in winter or on the Sabbath. For then there will be great tribulation, such as has not been since the beginning of the world until this time, no, nor ever shall be. And unless those days were shortened, no flesh would be saved; but for the elect sake those days shall be shortened.” (Matthew 24:15-22) It is therefore evident by the context of Jesus Christ’s words that the great tribulation is defined as a time of horrible persecution of God’s elect, the church, who must flee from the wrath of Satan that comes by way of the Antichrist. The prophet Daniel said this period of time would last 3 ½ years and that “the power of the holy people (saints/elect) [would be] completely shattered.” (Daniel 12:7) Therefore the elect must endure through the great tribulation. This is the plain and correct meaning of both texts. And as the Lord tells us in the Book of Revelation, “Then one of the elders answered, saying to me, ‘Who are these arrayed in white robes, where did they come from?’ And I said to him, ‘Sir, you know.’ So he said to me, ‘These are the ones who come out of the great tribulation, and washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.’” (Revelation 7:13,14) To come out of something means you first have to be in something. These are Christians who were martyred in the great tribulation. Thus, the great tribulation is not God’s wrath on unbelievers, but Satan’s antichristian wrath upon authentic blood bought believers in Christ. The term “elect” means anyone who is in Christ at the time. But again, based on the writings of Scofield and other per-tribulation rapture theorists, the great tribulation is equal to the wrath of God. However, there is no evidence of this in Scripture. And because the Apostle Paul tells us Christians are not “appointed to wrath” (1 Thessalonians. 5:9), they assume Christians do not have to suffer through the great tribulation. But there is nothing in Scripture that specifically states every Christian is exempt from tribulation, including the great tribulation. In fact the opposite is true, as the Apostle Paul said, “So that we ourselves boast of you among the churches of God for your patience and faith in all your persecutions and tribulations that you endure, which is manifest evidence of the righteous judgment of God, that you may be counted worthy of the kingdom of God, for which you suffer.” (II Thessalonians 1:4,5) Some Christians may be spared persecution in the great tribulation by the Lord in His sovereignty (Revelation 3:7-13), but many others will suffer for Christ. Even today, prior to the great tribulation, many people suffer horrible persecution and tribulation in hostile parts of the world, while other Christians live in relative peace and safety. During the great tribulation, a few pockets of Christians may be spared by God, but most Christians will endure the greatest tribulation the world has ever seen. And as Christ said, unless He shortened those days, no flesh would be spared. But for the sake of the elect (the Church), he shortens those days. There is a massive multi-million dollar industry dedicated to the assumption that the great tribulation is equal to the wrath of God. These proponents of the pre-tribulation rapture make millions of dollars writing books and making movies assuring Christian they do not have to suffer persecution or tribulation for their faith prior to the rapture. But these massive, complicated and bulky theories are held up by the flimsiest of Scriptural speculation and wordplay. It is like trying to lift the weight of an elephant off the ground using a kite string. No matter how hard you try the weight will break that string. Defining the great tribulation as the wrath of God is the kite string that can’t support the theory. It is the lynchpin that connects the whole thing. Without it, the entire theory falls apart. The Left Behind doctrines are nothing more than giant sand castles, giving people the false hope of evacuation just prior to a tsunami of end-time persecution. So instead of soberly preparing people to face the tribulation to come, the American evangelical church is throwing parties in their fortresses made of sand. Instead of putting on the whole armor of God, the church is putting on its party hat. Instead of making solid disciples, the church is making spiritual revelers, drunk on the wine of end-time myths and fables. Once these notions are dispelled, the entire theory is washed away by the reality of Christ’s sobering predictions. I believe the Lord is calling us back to His word. Back to counting the costs involved with true discipleship and devotion to Jesus Christ. We need to stop acting like the victory is final, because there is still more to come. We need to stop the elitist mentality that assumes persecution can never happen to us. We need to stop partying like we are already in Heaven. We need to stop the complacency and tom-foolery associated with false security. We need to take off our party hats and put back on the whole armor of God so we can stand in the evil day. We need to remember God has called us to be willing to suffer tribulation for His namesake. We need to be soberly prepared to walk through the great tribulation. We need to understand once again this world is not our home, and that we are only passing through on our way to our glorious reward in the life to come. We need to be prepared, along with our brothers and sisters around the world, to give up everything, even our lives if necessary, to be with the Lord in glory. The trouble with tribulation is that it is coming our way. Are you spiritually prepared? https://pulpitandpen.org/2017/11/09/the-trouble-with-tribulation/

This is the best and well run Christian forum I've ever seen and been a member of, bar none. I too wonder sometimes as to why certain threads are moderated and/or deleted that appeared "to me" nothing got out of hand. From what I've seen, all the moderators do an excellent job of following the terms of service and enforcing them. Whether we agree with the TOS or not , they're there for a good reason. Ever noticed what happens to a forum that is not well regulated and enforced? Our moderators are not on a personal power trip or status seeking. I liken them to the police that watch and protect us from infractions, follow the law, and protect us from dangers [yeah I know, not the best comparison]. They volunteer to do it without compensation or benefits, on our behalf, to make this forum productive, informative and enjoyable. Just like our police departments whom stand between us and harm, both seldom get the respect and "thank you's" they richly deserve. I myself appreciate their hard work, abundant time put in and their efforts to keep this great Christian forum from running out of control. Working behind the scenes, our moderators seldom get noticed or appreciated for all they do. Thank you moderators! Oops... I neglected to mention the founder and creator of this forum George, my bad! Thank you George for making this forum possible and all that you do too!

I Personally never get tired of reading scripture. I want to see and interact with the Word of God, as the Word of God is alive and reads us. I am going to do a brief "scripture bomb" to back up my point, and those who have ears to hear will understand. For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart. Neither is there any creature that is not manifest in his sight: but all things are naked and opened unto the eyes of him with whom we have to do. (Hebrews 4:12-13) Point being the problem is not so much "scripture bombing", but the aversion to the Truth of the Word of God and the conviction the Word of God brings in this post modern generation and mindset which states that all Truth is relative. It's not about me forcing scripture down your throat or my interpretation of truth that is the problem, the problem is the Not wanting to hear scripture and being convicted by it, and being led to the cross of Christ in repentance, because the Word of God has done what was set out to do, which is to "cut to the marrow". concepts like Sin, conviction, admitting one's error, repentance are not Popular vocabulary in the Post modern world of self rule, self love, and self deception. There are three ways to look into a mirror, one is narcissistic, One is with Loathing, and the then there is the way outlined in the Word of God, which is to see all of our flaws, and ugliness, but also to see the image of God in us, which is seeing ourselves honestly. That being said, We must encourage people to see themselves as they really are, and if that means using scripture to show them their ugliness, then so be it, But if the opportunity presents itself we must also edify and encourage them as well. God bless.

I skipped past Neighbours post, too much scripture.....could have stopped at the chapter and verse reference to the sermon on the mount . It could be argued that Jesus was quoting a lot of scripture but we do have to keep in mind that he was delivering a sermon and not having a discussion with a group of friends. Using scripture to prove or back up what we are saying is important, we should be doing it for clarity.....with 1 proviso, there be only the proper amount of scripture to ensure we are not proof texting. Doing that is a skill in itself....... Laser bombing ? I think what One Light is saying is important because we really do need to learn to take the words of God and share them in our own words in ways that work in the culture we are in, something I think for me, is one of the primary purposes of this forum. Using bible quotes would then not be used as a back up to our belief but as the source of what we are communicating.

I don't know how long a scripture bomb is. Personally, I find that a point that is not supported by the word is useless. My opinion is ridiculous if it is not in God's word. You have been here a long time. The posts that I have valued the most have been Fresno Joe's. God's word enlightens and teaches; it gives wisdom.

The more of him we see, the more we love him and trust him. A heart fascinated in HIM will love much

Yes we are......Yes He did.... yes it does. As someone who is dead in Christ and growing in Him, I am right where the Lord would have me, for to Him do I go....But thanks for your concern and the truths you put forth. So be blessed, as to Jesus we go, Not me Thanks, it does seem the more I go to Him the more of Him do I see that I can trust.... Which makes me trust Him even the more. Like one feeds the other....which it does, so to know and trust Him the more, to Jesus do I go. May God bless and prosper you in all you do, Not me

People need to write good. I think Beau will get this.......lol

Worthy is a nice place for Christians to come and fellowship. Most Christian message boards are not managed well.

Garbage in Garbage out With pandora playing in my shop, I can pick and chose the artist. I probably have close to a hundred different 'stations' of artists. Mostly old stuff, but a lot of new also. Have been gravitating to instrumental more and more. There is so many really good tunes/songs that are uplifting. Slow and easy for meditating, fast and up beat for building cabinets. It is easy to 'thumb up' or 'thumb down' tunes that draw upon the flesh or spirit. Selective via like/dislike. Instant. (conviction knob: ) Any mid level believer KNOWS what tune is honorable/dishonorable to our savior. The rub is truth. The light can decide, if allowed to shine, or darkness will rule. Choose you this day........

Friend, are you a Muslim or a Universalist? Or ??? Jesus teaches us to love our neighbor as ourselves. He doesn't teach us to hate but to love even our enemies. However, Jesus did say He is the only way to Heaven.

Hi calledoutones Here is the actual text of the passage you cited: Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition; Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God. Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things? And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time. For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way. And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming: So at the place where you say the rapture will occur, we have the event that happens at the Lord's Second coming! This is the error of pre tribulationism.

It really doesn't make a bit of sense, when you lay it out in a complete thought. Start by the context Paul lays out. II Thessalonians 2 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him, 2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand. 3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition; 4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God. 5 Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things? Now paraphrase it in modern English with your rendering of the verse. Now brothers, concerning the coming of Jesus and our being gathered to Him. Don't be shaken or disturbed that the day of the Lord has already come. That day will not come, unless the gathering comes first and the A/C is revealed. See the problem? The gathering will happen before the gathering? The other nonsensical part of this is the attempt to change what apostasia means. If someone speaks of apostasy, or say an apostate church, do you distort the meaning to believe that this apostate church has been raptured? Paul connects the rapture to His coming in the first verse, it is the same thing Jesus told us Himself. God bless

Muhammad or Jesus: The Prophet Like Unto Moses by John McTernan "The LORD thy God will raise up unto thee a Prophet from the midst of thee, of thy brethren, like unto me; unto him ye shall hearken." — Deuteronomy 18:15 For Islam to be a religion, Muhammad must be a prophet of God. The message of Muhammad as recorded in the Koran is the foundation of Islam. This is seen in the confession to be a Muslim. This is called the Sha-hadatain. The second part of the Shahadatain follows: "... that Muhammad is His messenger to all human beings till the Day of Judgment." By Messenger, the Koran means prophet. According to Islam, he is the final prophet or seal of the prophets: "Muhammad... [he is] the Messenger of Allah and the Seal of the Prophets: and Allah has full knowledge of all things" (Sura 33:40). Islam teaches not only is Muhammad the seal of the prophets but he is the greatest of the prophets. He is equal to or greater than Moses. Islam believes that Muhammad is the special prophet the Bible mentions will be like Moses. This verse from the Bible follows: "I will raise them up a Prophet from among their brethren, like unto thee, and will put my words in his mouth; and he shall speak unto them all that I shall command him" (Deut. 18:18). The Koran states that Muhammad is the Prophet who will be like unto Moses. Muhammad came with the final message which everyone has to obey: "Say: I am not the first of the apostles, and I do not know what will be done with me or with you: I do not follow anything but that which is revealed to me, and I am nothing but a plain warner. Say: Have you considered if it is from Allah, and you disbelieve in it, and a witness from among the children of Israel has borne witness of one like him, so he believed, while you are big with pride; surely Allah does not guide the unjust people" (Sura 46:9-10). What It Means To Be Prophet Like Unto Moses There are five outstanding characteristics that have to be met. The Bible teaches that Moses is different than all the other Old Testament prophets. To be the prophet like Moses of Deuteronomy 18, these five characteristics have to be met. These requirements follow: 1. God spoke directly to Moses. All other prophets received their revelation by visions or dreams. Moses' revelation was directly from the mouth of God. "And he said, Hear now my words: If there be a prophet among you, I the LORD will make myself known unto him in a vision, and will speak unto him in a dream. My servant Moses is not so, who is faithful in all mine house. With him will I speak mouth to mouth, even apparently, and not in dark speeches; and the similitude of the LORD shall he behold: wherefore then were ye not afraid to speak against my servant Moses?" (Num. 12:6-8). 2. Moses was in the direct presence of God. He saw the similitude or form of the LORD. Moses glowed from being in direct presence of God's glory. "And it came to pass, when Moses came down from mount Sinai with the two tables of testimony in Moses' hand, when he came down from the mount, that Moses wist not that the skin of his face shone while he talked with him. And when Aaron and all the children of Israel saw Moses, behold, the skin of his face shone; and they were afraid to come nigh him" (Exod. 34:29-30). 3. Moses brought in a blood covenant relationship with God. The other prophets built upon this covenant, but no other Old Testament prophet brought in a different covenant. "And Moses took the blood, and sprinkled it on the people, and said, Behold the blood of the covenant, which the LORD hath made with you concerning all these words. Then went up Moses, and Aaron, Nadab, and Abihu, and seventy of the elders of Israel: And they saw the God of Israel: and there was under his feet as it were a paved work of a sapphire stone, and as it were the body of heaven in his clearness" (Exod. 24:8-10). 4. Moses did mighty signs and wonders. God used Moses to split the Red Sea. " And Moses stretched out his hand over the sea; and the LORD caused the sea to go back by a strong east wind all that night, and made the sea dry land, and the waters were divided. And the children of Israel went into the midst of the sea upon the dry ground: and the waters were a wall unto them on their right hand, and on their left" (Exod. 14:21-22). 5. Moses prophesied of the future. Moses gave entire chapters of prophecy. His prophecy centered on the people and nation of Israel. "Then will I remember my covenant with Jacob, and also my covenant with Isaac, and also my covenant with Abraham will I remember; and I will remember the land.And yet for all that, when they be in the land of their enemies, I will not cast them away, neither will I abhor them, to destroy them utterly, and to break my covenant with them: for I am the LORD their God. But I will for their sakes remember the covenant of their ancestors, whom I brought forth out of the land of Egypt in the sight of the heathen, that I might be their God: I am the LORD" (Lev. 26:42,44-45). 6. The prophet has to be a Jew. The Prophet like Moses will have to come from one of the tribes of Israel. The context of Deutromony 18 makes it clear that the brethren means someone from one of the 12 tribes of Israel. Deuteronomy 18:1,2,7,15 The priests the Levites, and all the tribe of Levi, shall have no part nor inheritance with Israel... 2 Therefore shall they have no inheritance among their brethren: the LORD is their inheritance, as he hath said unto them. 7 Then he shall minister in the name of the LORD his God, as all his brethren the Levites do, which stand there before the LORD. 15 The LORD thy God will raise up unto thee a Prophet from the midst of thee, of thy brethren, like unto me; unto him ye shall hearken; The Test of Muhammad as the Prophet Like unto Moses Using the five criteria of Moses being a special prophet, let's test the Muslim's claim that Muhammad is the special prophet like Moses which the Koran claims. 1. God spoke directly with Moses. Muhammad fails because the Koran shows he received his message from an angel. "Then I swear by the angels who bring down the revelation" (Sura 77:5). "Say: Whoever is the enemy of Jibreel— for surely he revealed it to your heart by Allah's command, verifying that which is before it and guidance and good news for the believers" (Sura 2:97). 2. The Koran never reported that Muhammad was literally in the direct presence of God. 3. Muhammad never brought in a blood covenant with God, but his message went directly against the revealed word of God. Muhammad denied the basis for the New Testament covenant which is the death of the Lord Jesus on the cross. "And their saying: Surely we have killed the Messiah, Isa (Jesus) son of Marium, the apostle of Allah; and they did not kill him nor did they crucify him, but it appeared to them so" (Sura 4:157). 4. The Koran reports no signs and wonders of Muhammad. 5. Muhammad made no prophecies in the Koran. The Muslims call Sura 30 the Great Prophecy: This Sura is often used as proof Muhammad was a prophet. "The Romans are vanquished, In a near land, and they, after being vanquished, shall overcome, Within a few years. Allah's is the command before and after; and on that day the believers shall rejoice" (Sura 30:2-4). Sura 30 is not a valid prophecy: The Romans, who were the Byzantines, were always at war. A near land is not identified. The location to judge the near land is not identified in the Koran. Is it Jerusalem, Mecca, or Medina etc.? What is a few years? No date is give for this prophecy so within a few years can be identified. The fulfillment is not recorded in the Koran. It is impossible to verify that Sura 30:2-4 is a valid prophecy. 6. Muhammad was not a Jew. This just by itself eliminates Muhammad from being the Prophet of Deuteronomy 18:18. Muhammad fails the test of prophet in general and specifically he is not the prophet like unto Moses. Therefore his message as written in the Koran is to be totally rejected. He cannot be classified as a prophet because he made no prophecy which could be tested. The Muslim's claim that Muhammad is the seal of the prophets has no authority as there is no proof in the Koran that Muhammad was a true prophet of God. The Lord Jesus Meets the Criteria To Be the Prophet Like Unto Moses The Bible says that the Lord Jesus is the Prophet like unto Moses. "And he shall send Jesus Christ, which before was preached unto you: . . . For Moses truly said unto the fathers, A prophet shall the Lord your God raise up unto you of your brethren, like unto me; him shall ye hear in all things whatsoever he shall say unto you. And it shall come to pass, that every soul, which will not hear that prophet, shall be destroyed from among the people (Acts 3:20,22-23). 1. God spoke directly to Moses. God spoke directly through the Lord Jesus. "Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works" (John 14:10). 2. Moses was in the direct presence of God and glowed from God's presence. Jesus was the direct presence of God, and He manifested the glory of God! "And after six days Jesus taketh Peter, James, and John his brother, and bringeth them up into an high mountain apart, And was transfigured before them: and his face did shine as the sun, and his raiment was white as the light" (Matt. 17:1-2). 3. Moses brought in a blood covenant relationship with God. The Lord Jesus brought in a better blood covenant with God. The better covenant gives the assurance of eternal life to all that believe. "For this is my blood of the new testament [covenant], which is shed for many for the remission of sins" (Matt. 26:28). "But now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises" (Heb. 8:6). 4. Moses did mighty signs and wonders. Jesus did mighty signs and wonders. The Lord Jesus raised a man from the dead after he was four days in the grave. The Bible reported only a few of the awesome miracles that the Lord Jesus did. These miracles were a sign of Him being the Son of God. "Jesus said, Take ye away the stone. Martha, the sister of him that was dead, saith unto him, Lord, by this time he stinketh: for he hath been dead four days. ... And when he thus had spoken, he cried with a loud voice, Lazarus, come forth. And he that was dead came forth, bound hand and foot with graveclothes: and his face was bound about with a napkin. Jesus saith unto them, Loose him, and let him go" (John 11:39,43-44). 5. Moses prophesied of the future, as did Jesus. Like Moses, the Lord Jesus focused His prophecy on the Jews and their dispersion and restoration. The restoration of Israel and Jerusalem would occur just before His second coming. Just as the Lord prophesied, exactly happened to the Jews. Israel is once again a nation with Jerusalem as its capital. "And they asked him, saying, Master, but when shall these things be? and what sign will there be when these things shall come to pass? . . . But woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck, in those days! for there shall be great distress in the land [Israel], and wrath upon this people [Jews]. And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled" (Luke 21:7,23-24). 6. Moses was a Jew and the Lord Jesus was a Jew. Matthew 1:1 The book of the generation of Jesus Christ, the son of David, the son of Abraham. The Lord Jesus qualifies to be the Prophet because He is the Son of David from the tribe of Judah. The Lord Jesus not only met the requirements of being the Prophet like unto Moses, but he exceeded them in all points. Moses was the servant of God, but the Lord Jesus was the Son of God; therefore, He was greater than Moses. "[Christ] Who was faithful to him that appointed him, as also Moses was faithful in all his house. For this man was counted worthy of more glory than Moses, inasmuch as he who hath builded the house hath more honour than the house. . . . And Moses verily was faithful in all his house, as a servant, for a testimony of those things which were to be spoken after; But Christ as a son over his own house ..." (Heb. 3:2-3,5-6). The Bible shows that the Lord Jesus is greater than Moses as He is the Son of God. God sent His Son into the world to die for our sin. Because of the death of the Lord Jesus on the cross, you can be forgiven of all sin and have assurance of eternal life with God. When you trust the Lord Jesus as your Savior, God makes an eternal blood covenant with you. Please repent of sin and trust the Lord Jesus as your Savior. Eternal life is only through faith in Jesus Christ as your Lord and Savior. He is the Prophet like unto Moses and those that do not listen to His message, God will require it of them. "If we receive the witness of men, the witness of God is greater: for this is the witness of God which he hath testified of his Son. He that believeth on the Son of God hath the witness in himself: he that believeth not God hath made him a liar; because he believeth not the record that God gave of his Son. And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life" (1 John 5:9-12).

A Poem I wrote- Oct 31st Child's Play?? Where's the atmosphere of fear On this unholy 'holiday'? While the church turns a blind eye And pretends it's child's play? Satan and his minions laugh At the flippancy expressed, As the church believes a lie And his schemes go unaddressed. Who's the mastermind behind This dark time of Hell-oween, When it's in the name of 'fun' So much wickedness is seen? The grotesque and the bizarre Get exalted every year; Yet the cuter costumes counter And distract away from fear. The author of confusion Does that thing he does so well; For when he appears angelic The mixed messages prevail. Is the candy so inviting? Is the 'innocence' so sweet? Can we do it for God's glory? (What the world calls 'Trick or Treat") The occult becomes so active. It's a time to watch and pray; But the 'ostrich head is in the sand' Within the church this day. May the ones whose eyes are opened Do their best to stand above All the compromised excuses. May we "speak the truth in love." If we don't stand against evil now, while we still have freedom... what will we do later when we don't? I love you guys... but I firmly believe in being a God pleaser, rather than a man pleaser. "For am I now seeking the favor of men, or of God?" Galatians 1:10 "not by way of eye service, as men-pleasers, but as slaves of Christ, doing the will of God from the heart." Ephesians 6:6 "whatever you do, do all to the glory of God." 1 Corinthians 10:31 My policy in life is: If I can't do it for God's glory... I just don't want to do it.

Wednesday 10-23-19, Tishri 24, 5780 4th. day of the weekly cycle, 31st. Fall day God Leads Israel: Exodus Thirteen:17-22 Exodus Thirteen:17-22 The Message (MSG) 17 It so happened that after Pharaoh released the people, God didn’t lead them by the road through the land of the Philistines, which was the shortest route, for God thought, “If the people encounter war, they’ll change their minds and go back to Egypt.” 18 So God led the people on the wilderness road, looping around to the Red Sea. The Israelites left Egypt in military formation. 19 Moses took the bones of Joseph with him, for Joseph had made the Israelites solemnly swear to do it, saying, “God will surely hold you accountable, so make sure you bring my bones from here with you.” 20-22 They moved on from Succoth and then camped at Etham at the edge of the wilderness. God went ahead of them in a Pillar of Cloud during the day to guide them on the way, and at night in a Pillar of Fire to give them light; thus they could travel both day and night. The Pillar of Cloud by day and the Pillar of Fire by night never left the people. You know, just thinking, as of the above, it is an amazing thing to see how God has led His children then, as how He moves with us now in this endtime. Love always, Walter

My judgement is your post is way too long.. if you want ordinary people to read it and reply, keep it NORMAL...

Hi all, Just a tidbit from yesterday: Went to church to help clean up after Sunday Worship, thought we would get to meet a few people. Not so much, seems other than the organizer and fellow servants couple we were pretty much the people that turned out. I met Mr. vacuum cleaner, some rags and Lysol. But very importantly to us we did meet that couple and they are the one's that are starting a dedicated space for worship for special needs individuals. Turns out the special needs people are adults with mental processing difficulties, some high functioning some very limited. That was a great meet! It may be something we might be able to add to, as I was part of such a ministry years ago. So we will give it a go. Took only an hour and a half of cleaning, plus we got to meet someone after all and have opportunity to get plugged in here at th enew to us local body. God is good, so good! Then a funny one happened yesterday too; I had started to remove about four inches of soil from around the base step of my back patio steps in the afternoon. I didn't finish, so it is a very rough and uneven approach to those steps right now. Since it is the back door steps on a steep hillside I didn't concern myself much with setting up a barrier, just stuck my bright yellow handled shovel upright by the base step indicating work was going on, just in case. Did I tell you I have a blind neighbor? Guess who walked up the hill to my back door and knocked to ask me a question about some church worship music last evening? He said my porch steps handrail is really loose. Said he almost fell over when he grabbed onto it. Said it seemed more like a shovel in the dirt than a hand rail. Yep, life's little tidbits are like that, wouldn't ya know it a blind man walks up a hillside over tree roots and moss just to grab my shovel and have abit of discomfort standing in the muddy clayish soil at the base of my steps that have much of it's support removed from under it - Do you have some tidits to share?

So how do you councel a christian worried about sin? A driend of mine a builder became a Christian. He was at work and his mates were whistling at the pretty girls walking by his building site. He looked up and was struck by how sexy these girls were. He was aware that his thoughts had move from 'Oh a pretty girls' to wow what a sexy girl I fancy her!' What advice would you have given him? What did he do? Well he got home and rand our minister( before mobile phones) asked to see him, He started to look for a time but was interupte 'No now!' He went round and explained what I've recounted. Ministers reaction was to start laughing. He explained If you had reacted in any other way I would be worried. He had had a natural reaction to pretty girls, recognised he had strayed into sin and been alarmed. So how would you advise a young Christian who recognises that his reactions are leading him or her into sin?

This is one of the most encouraging posts I've seen in years, thanks. God bless

Jesus did not preach a new religion. He preached HIMSELF. Essentially , He preached that there is something so wrong with Mankind, that only God could restore the breach that was started when Eve decided to trust Satan instead of God. “ NO man comes to the Father lest the Spirit draws him”....... “ I am the Way, I am the Truth, I am the Light— no man comes to the Father lest he come by me”. Here is the problem with every religion : They all proclaim that Jesus was “ A” Son Of God. That won’t get it .Jesus was “ THE” Son Of God. One little word, the difference between Heaven and Hell. Pick up a Bible sometime.....get one that is easy to read......read the first ten Chapters of Romans.Good luck.

Sorry... Okay, well it wasn't a bad topic for while. I'll just go and sit in the 'time-out corner' now.

Marilyn Manson was smart enough to know that to make money all you have to do is be more outrageous than the guy that preceded you—— he out shocked Ozzie, who out shocked Alice Cooper, who outshocked.....well, I think you get the picture......I can remember when Elvis the Pelvis was considered shocking.....lol

It would be more than sufficient to give an English major a cardiac arrest!

Yes, BeauJangles. Not everyone here colours inside the lines, figuratively speaking. All caps, no spacing after fullstops/periods, bulk random Scriptures, thread titles that have no relation to content...it's all happening on WORTHY.

Yes, he most certainly did.

And Satan smiled!

Their music is not for me.

To me Rock prior to 1980 is just fun listening.... and mostly for the music itself not the lyrics.

I've heard some pretty good explanations on that one that makes sense. Would be kind of long to explain.

Romans 12:1-2 tell us I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that you present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable to God, which is your reasonable service. And do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, that you may prove what is that good and acceptable and perfect will of God. Be not conformed to this world - a strong request I'd say. Yet, in the past decade or so that church has been doing just that. They use what people in the world like to attract them into church. Just in worship alone we now can find fog machines, light shows, big screen monitors, rock music, rap music, and the list goes on. Does this go against what Paul wrote? Personally, I say yes it does, but the argument that people make is that God can and will use anything He desires to bring people to Him. It's as if they are telling me that God will allow His body to go against scripture if it draws people in. I highly doubt that the Holy Spirit needs rock music to convict anyone of sin, though it may be the sin found in rock music that He is confronting them with. Yet, the argument of rock and roll style music being used in church worship services is a topic that continues to be discussed with no true answer as scripture does not speak of using drums or electronic equipment. Though drums had been around for centuries, electronics have not. Then again, neither are cars, telephones, airplanes, etc. As far as secular rock and roll music, I have left most of this behind me as their message does not coincide with scripture. The question I ask myself is, who am I trying to be, a well rounded person in this world or Christ like? For me, and I speak only of myself here, I was a heavy drug user who used music to enhance the affects of the drugs I took, so when a certain song I use to listen to a lot comes on in the background I am brought back in my memory to the days when I cherished that song, as if I was reliving my drug use days over again. For me, rock and roll has to be left behind, just like certain movies I once enjoyed. For me, these changes are all part of maturing in Him.

Good to know you've managed to choose well the catalog of choice. Larry Norman, grandfather of Christian contemporary music, and who was also known for his outspoken lyrics once penned a tune called: Why Should the Devil Have All the Good Music?

Just imagine trying to survive the extremity of cataclysmic events upon the judgement of this earth if being other than a well trained survivalist living on a minimal existence. Few will have enough canned and dried food plus sufficient water supplies to last it though. Safe hiding places that can withstand global devastation do not presently exist. And people can be easily traced merely by having a computer or smart phone. Even soldiers of fortune will not find a fortunate situation. Sorry. Be not dismayed, however. We're not going to have to worry about all this. Good News!

SOME OF MY WORDS OR ALL OF THEM Begging your pardon bro, but excessive use of 'capping' while posting are considered to be the equivalence of shouting. I opted out quoting you for the same purpose. Just saying. God bless.

I've attended many concerts. Classical, gospel, jazz, pop, rock & roll, new wave/alternative, country western, and Christian contemporary. There are more active groupies who are female than male. Both are prone to the influences and listen to their particular choice of styles. Anything with lyrics has a message - good, not so good, and down right evil. We need to be careful of what we digest when it comes to musical tastes.

Jesus came and sacrificed Himself that we may have life and have it abundantly.

Do you realize we are separated from God by sin....but we can be reconciled and cleansed of sin through Christ's sacrifice?

Please read your verses again. None of them say that our faith is perfect or that our faith will be strong. Yes our faith is a gift from God simple practicality will tell you that not everyone trusts God or has faith in God in the same way or to the same extent. Also on a practical matter, if you are unable to understand that people are very different you should not be telling them how they should live as Christians. A blamket admonision that Christians do this..... could be damaging to a Christian struggling with that issue. Scroll through the threads asking for help, go to the christian forum and scroll through the requests for help.

Only Jesus is perfect and we can draw neer to God bvecause of our relationship with Jesus, not because of any imagined perfection in us. We are still sinners who daily sin and need forgiveness. The Servant of the Lord 42 “Here is my servant, whom I uphold, my chosen one in whom I delight; I will put my Spirit on him, and he will bring justice to the nations. 2 He will not shout or cry out, or raise his voice in the streets. 3 A bruised reed he will not break, and a smoldering wick he will not snuff out. In faithfulness he will bring forth justice; 4 he will not falter or be discouraged till he establishes justice on earth. In his teaching the islands will put their hope.” verse 3, the damaged or hurt and those whose faith is dying he will not destroy. Who among us can truely say that our faith/trust is not weak or that we don't need his support.

We have to be careful how our hearts and minds respond to the music. Will it cause us to sin? Born again Christians are not to be conformed to this world. You friend is not a true Christian?

Steve, Wingnut and Omega are the workhorses here. They are the authorities directly under George and above the rest of us. Many like Jade, Angels and others put in many hours here. Some of us are hit and miss due to our appointments and schedules. Do pray for Omega whose health had not been as good due to heart and breathing problems, and for continued healing for Jade. Also pray for George and his family who are in the "line of fire" near the Dead Sea in Israel. Thank you all.

or in english:-18 The former regulation is set aside because it was weak and useless 19 (for the law made nothing perfect), and a better hope is introduced, by which we draw near to God. Thank you for trying to simplify your title.

What do you mean, correct this time ! As a compulsive Know All I am always right

I may regret this, but..... ….well, I don't normally talk about this on message boards unless it's brought up. I'm a first wave feminist and have been since I was about 25 years old [I'm 58 now]. What that means in terms of what I am NOT: I am not one of these second and third wavers who dress up like genitals and protest Trump. I don't care for Trump's ways at al, but to do what those women did was senseless and stupid and completely ineffective and only made things worse. Plus, it wasn't Biblical. It wasn't what a Christian woman should do. I do not believe in women climbing over the backs of children, men, and other women to make a name for themselves. I am not a man-hater. What does this mean in terms of what I AM. I am a believer that things are not right in terms of some women's issues and that some things do need changing and are very, very HARD to change. For example: The marital rape exemption laws in the United States did not begin to be taken off of the state's books until 1975. Not 1775. Not even 1875. But 1975. Up until that point, in all 50 states a man could rape his wife and there would be no legal consequences. It came from an archaic law in England that said when a woman married - her right to consent or not consent with her husband was null and void. She was his property. All 50 states now have no marital rape exemption laws anymore [it took decades for all 50 states to comply], but there are other problems. Several states have granted for a husband's immunity if his wife is drugged or incapacitated and cannot give consent. He cannot be charged with a crime. Yes. Read that again. One particular wife found this out the hard way. She found a thumb drive with video of her husband raping her while she was drugged. She took it to the police, they arrested her husband, and he was let go by noon because of that particular exemption. Other states have much shorter statutes of limitation for wives than for non-wives and in some states, a wife has to prove her husband used a weapon of some kind, a knife, a gun, and baseball bat. She can't just claim he pinned her down. What all of these tells me is what I have known for most of my life. We still don't fully comprehend what rape is in this country. The Center for Disease Control estimates that somewhere around 9% of wives have been raped by husbands. Other sources claim as much as 14%. The point is - while it's a good thing that marital rape is criminalized in all 50 states now - there is still a mindset that a wife cannot be raped by her husband in the hearts of some people. And speaking of mindsets, for me - it is a problem of the heart and mind. I know a lot of great Christian men who just have a heart and mind problem. Last week on another forum I have frequented since 2002, a man that I thought I knew rather well made this statement: "Women are more carnally minded than men, that's why they aren't allowed to lead anywhere". In my church, there's a particular man I work with in the music ministry and I have for 30 years. I read a book by a particular woman that was outstanding. Great Christian teachings. I suggested it to him. He said he would pass. I said, "Well, I've got the tape of it, if you rather just listen to it." He said, "It's not that I mind if women have opinions because I don't. I just don't like listening to women talk." And he laughed. My pastor, whom I appreciate very much has said some things from the pulpit about women that I haven't appreciated at all as they cannot be found in the Bible. He once said that Dinah, in Genesis was raped because she should not have been visiting those other women all by herself. He blamed the victim. There's more, but I'll not say anymore as other than his issues with women - he's a very good pastor. MINDSET: The only entire sermon from Joel Osteen I've listened to was on marriage. He did not use scriptures. He just made it up as he went. He talked to women for about 25 minutes and told them how they contributed to marriage problems. He said they were too fat, wore ratty nightgowns to bed, didn't "meet their husbands needs" enough [and told them that they husband were just going to find sex somewhere else if they did have sex more], they should meet their husbands at the door each evening in full make-up and fixed hair-dos, and should do what is done in HIS household and all undergarments should come from Victoria's Secret. He gave this delivery as if he were on Comedy Central. The congregation just laughed and laughed. He told the husbands two things. Stop bugging your wives about sex and talk more. MINDSET: Ed Young, in a televised series of sermons on sexual relations told women that they should dress properly. And they should. But here is how he said it. "Ladies, cover up your boobs and your butts. I don't like looking at your boobs and your butts." And he had a look on his face like he was smelling rotten eggs and looking at someone vomiting. I changed the channel. MINDSET: Mark Driscoll believes and teaches from his pulpit and his books that wives MUST perform oral sex on their husbands or they are sinning against God. He gives the story of a wife who had an unbelieving husband and she did not perform this act. After a sermon from Mark from his pulpit, she "got convicted" - went home and apologized to her husband and to God in front of her husband and then proceded to well.... you know. The next Sunday the man came to church with his wife and "got saved". Mark says, there in lies the proof of what he preaches. MINDSET: This past Valentines' Day at Louisiana College, the visiting chapel pastor gave a sermon on "female sexuality". One of his bullet points in his "sermon" was that women should shave their pubic hair to please their men. He said it in a crude way - "Ladies, you need to keep your lawn mowed for your man." He was comparing their bodies to a house. After the students filed a complaint, nothing was done because "this pastor is an important man in his community". The audio tape of that service was taken off-line. You can hear all the others, but not that one. Nothin was done and it was claimed that "cultural differences caused the offence". What does than even mean? It's just attitudes like this that I have encountered all my life both in and out of the church. I LOVE and APPRECATE the men in my life - for a variety of reasons. As I said, I am not a man-hater. And it's not just men you hear this from. There are scores of women who just dump on women all the time for not being the delicate little flower. I have a Facebook friend who hates abortion as much as I do. But she will post things like "If these women would just keep their legs shut - maybe we wouldn't have all these dead babies." What about the woman who is raped? The one pregnant by a boyfriend/husband and abandoned or coerced into an abortion? She puts all women who have had or contemplated abortion in to the same category - whore. Her next Facebook post will be "oh, how I love Jesus!" I listened to a woman online yesterday who claimed that women should not have a job outside the home because women just are NOT goal-driven like men are and don't have the intestinal fortitude for it. If I could have rolled my eyes back in head any further, I would have been staring at my own brain. I think this woman has neither been a stay-at-home-mother nor a member of the outside workforce. It takes DRIVE and goal-setting for BOTH. There are enough people - men and women alike - who believe and teach that women are inferior in all ways: mentally, spiritually, emotionally, intellectually, and more to cause me to embrace the mindset and heart of my foremothers: Cady Stanton, Susan B. Anthony, Priscilla, Phoebe, my suffragette sisters and more. I reject the feminism of the this new generation of women. It involves treating men with as much disdain and some men treat women with. That - I reject.