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Just so you know, we deal with trolls pretty easily these days. As a online fellowship based on our Statement of Faith ... we pretty much deal with it instantaneously. I will say, that I'm investigating how people "high-five" one another and if we begin to see a pattern of irregular "reputation" points given within "cliques" we'll have to deal with that as well. Personally, I view the forums as a means of outreach, a means of discipleship, a way to reach the world ... if someone is hindering our 'witness' as a body, we simply are limiting their means to create chaos ... without the means of creating chaos, trolls don't last long at Worthy! Remember, if you are part of our fellowship at Worthy ... and you find something strange, just report the POST! Reporting is the easiest means for us to review situations. God bless, George

You go into the site and you tell them who Jesus Christ is. They already know that. You give them some words for salvation from the Bible and if they do not agree you leave. They have digested the words with their eyes and mind. They are in the hands of God. Only God can open the heart and mind of a unbeliever.

I troll them back with Gospel and Truth... You never know you may plant a seed in them.

All one can do is try to plant a seed..... “ The Gospel is foolishness to those that Perish”.....Present the Gospel and if there is no positive response, move on- don’t “ cast your pearls before swine”

Lee---it is not a mechanical thing. Its a heart thing. When the Lord takes up dwelling in you--there is a real change and the heart of that one naturally confesses to the Lord because there is a new awareness of sin, but it isn't a mechanical thing where one ticks off a list of sins. At the moment that we are 'In Christ', the blood washes away all of our sins and when the Father looks at us--He sees the righteousness of Christ. This is the Gift of Salvation.

Lol plenty of folks here have expressed unpopular opinions. Including me. A troll goes beyond that to spread deliberate mayhem and cause harm.

Some years ago, I had dinner with Dr. Black, the president of Robert Presbyterian College in Istanbul. He married a Bulgarian and was in Bulgaria when the Communists took it over. He told me that the strength and power of the Communists over their people is beyond imagination. He said that children will turn informers against their parents, even when they know it will mean the death of their fathers and mothers. He then added something I will never forget. There is a kingdom of darkness in this world presided over by a king, just as there is a kingdom of light presided over by Jesus Christ. He said that the kingdom of atheistic Communism is an expression of the kingdom of Satan. There is a god in this world [2 Corinthians 4:4], and we see him in his illimitable power in his command of the elements and of disease. It was Satan who destroyed God’s perfect creation. It was Satan who destroyed God’s re-creation, made the animal kingdom vicious, and caused people to be full of murderous thoughts. Job gives us a good example of this truth. After he suffered his many and great losses, he asked the question as to who caused his heartache and agony. He came to realize that Satan did it under the permissive will of God. ...Pastor Criswell Job 13:15 (NIV) 15 Though he slay me, yet will I hope in him; I will surely defend my ways to his face.

One thing to keep in mind everyone ... is that within the harvest field ... Jesus said ... do not pull the tares -- lest you pull the wheat with it ... While we attempt to prevent "weeds" from being planted ... it's impossible to remove all "tares" otherwise you're dealing with disrupting the harvest as well! Personally, I come from the perspective that NONE of us have our DOCTRINE PERFECT ... the key is not "PERFECT" doctrine ... but rather a GREAT RELATIONSHIP with our God ... in this relationship we have with our God, we can share in love our DISAGREEMENTS ... as we're all running the race together! @DustyRoad -- Thanks bro! We love you! God bless, George

In Internet slang, a troll is a person who starts quarrels or upsets people on the Internet to distract and sow discord by posting inflammatory and digressive, extraneous, or off-topic messages.

Well than alert us, who are they? Name names if you want to truly alert others seriously of who other trolls are. But please be certain of your accuracy in accusing another of being a troll as you could be in error in bringing slander to another member in Christ Jesus. And than its not only a person your offending but you also offending Christs little child and will become accountable for that from Him.

Its better to focus on what Gods thinks of us than what humans think of us. As fellow members of the body of Christ we should encourage one another and not try and find opportunity to tear people apart. Only God knows the true heart and intentions of a person. Its a serious accusation for instance to say that there are trolls in the prayer section. I have not noticed such and would think that anyone praying for another is doing so in the Love of Christ. It grieves me deeply to hear this. And I would think it grieves the Lord as well. The definition of troll seems to be what some of you just find different from your way of doing things. For instance people express themselves differently, some like to argue and go page after page in argument and some do not, some they make there point and move on, some only use mostly certain section of the Forum board and that may be their preference of comfort zone at the moment. so be it. In a forum of discussion, as I understand it, it is a place to share your thoughts, pictures, prayers, ideas, an opinion on a subject matter, it is a place to learn new things, its a place where we can ask questions and for some its a place for endless debate. Its a place to post recipes, pictures, videos, favorite hobbies, songs, humorous posts, serious post and prayer requests. Not everyone can write with eloquence. We don't know , maybe some people come here from another country and English is not their first language, yet they are making an effort to reach out and contribute and be part of a body of Christ in their own small way, perhaps because this forum may be their only way to hear about salvation through Christ Jesus. Some people have handicaps that one perhaps cannot necessarily pinpoint from just reading a post. Some people are more private than others for their own specific reason that we are not in any position to judge. Some people may be visually impaired and writing comes harder and more of a challenge for them yet they may still wish to contribute. Some may be handicapped, intellectually, through a stroke or other, in the hands and have a difficult typing, some may be mentally challenged and write as they feel at the moment. This does not make them trolls and some reading this post may feel they are looked at as a troll just because they are different in the way they write, express themselves, or how they contribute in however humble way they can. Only God can judge the heart of a person with precise accuracy. We as a body of Christ should be fisherman of mans souls and share the good news, and let Him do the clean up of their hearts . Every human being has a right to know the Lord and should be given that chance, especially on a christian site . No one person knows everything, these message boards, are where idea and thoughts can be shared and for sure, if we are open to learning as we go, it can become a worthwhile especially if it means growing in Christ. Amen! .

Just a tad bit of advice ... if you call someone 'heretic' or a 'ingrate' or perhaps use a term like 'b*****tard' or 'd***n' ... these posts will simply be deleted. I do not have time to edit them. Amazingly, when I see posts like this that need to be reviewed ... and I have to delete them ... it only shows me that you didn't understand why someone was placed under Moderator Review to begin with! I'm concerned about our Witness ... as WE ALL SHOULD BE ... God bless, George

Oh not only imagine it but dreamed about it for years... LoL.

If you can remember them, I think it is spiritually healthy to take pre-saved sins to God - as @Alive says, NOT to tick off a list. But to bind your heart closer to him and let God heal you of possible guilt, shame, or temptation to repeat them. I have confessed to God some sins from decades ago for these reasons. Not to be saved, but to endure a sanctification process. No one - absolutely no one can remember all their individual sins from their whole life.

Daniel 2:21 (KJV) And he changeth the times and the seasons: he removeth kings, and setteth up kings: he giveth wisdom unto the wise, and knowledge to them that know understanding: Another brainwashed misguided child, the generation that is replacing this one. Making the cover of Time Magazine and using her for ideological purposes as a way to usher in climate change as the new world order uniting point. I strongly suspect 'climate change' will be "the" or one of the mechanisms to fund, and bring about global control.

I guess all of us from time to time have been trolls. To be elevated to the position of humble door-mat does us all good. I'd rather be a mat in heaven than a fine suit in hell. Truism: you cannot take advantage of a Christian. If we are seated in heavenly places, does it really matter what earthly domain we inhabit?

I would not go onto an unbelievers site. And this is why. Luke 9:5 5 And whoever will not receive you, when you go out of that city, shake off the very dust from your feet as a testimony against them.”

Has anybody ever witnessed a miracle? Yes. Me regaining my cognizance, continence, and ability to walk again after coming out of a 30 day coma. It took three months of physical therapy to regain my walking and motor skills again, but God helped me to do it. I'd say that's miraculous.

Satan is a Creature with immense Power....he is “ The god of this world”, after all. Fortunately for us, I believe God has him on a short leash ......He could do nothing to Job that God did not allow him to do....

Brother I don't believe any denomination has a lock on the whole truth. I've gotten to a place where I despise all the labels. I prefer to be known as a follower of Jesus Christ, His disciple. My guide is Scripture and I look to the Holy Spirit as my Teacher. That does not mean I refuse to listen to anyone else....He gave "gifts unto men" and some of those are teachers. But the Word judges what human teachers share...if there's a conflict between what a man teaches and what the Word teaches, i acknowledge the authority of the Word.

It all depends on the circumstances. I definately would pray about it.

I have my boundaries. I am not a door mat.

A good friend had been diagnosed with stage 4 cancer; a huge tumor in her liver that had broken several ribs. She had wasted away to 85 pounds but she appeared to be 8 months pregnant though she was in her 60s. The dr. came to her in the hospital and told her to get her affairs in order because she only had days to live. The chemo and radiation were not helping and her organs were shutting down. So she signed her home over to her daughter. A devout Christian, she didn't fear going home to the Lord, but she had feared starving to death. Her son had mismanaged her finances so she had no income and when the fear gripped her life she had been attacked by the cancer. That night friends from several churches came to her hospital bed and prayed for her for hours. First the fear left her and her recovery began. Her ex son in law took her in because her daughter refused to return her home to her saying she had sold all her belongings, but the tumor began to shrink. The last I saw her was at her son in law's home about 3 months later. She had sent a message to the church saying how much she missed partaking of communion, so many of us had been inspired to take the elements to her and partake with her a few people at a time. Then her daughter took her and kept her drugged and confined to their basement. She was not allowed to communicate with Christians but was held captive. She got word to a former neighbor who arranged to break her out and take to her sons home two hundred miles away. Five months later there was no sign of the tumor and no cancer cells. She lived several years longer.

Another thread is in controversial forum with more info.

It is probably not what most people would call a miracle, but He kept me from being across the street from the Federal Building in Oklahoma City when Tim McVey blew it up. I should have been in the parking lot waiting for a parking place to open up in the building across the street... no one in that lot survived that I am aware of....

Why are we saved? He sees the heart man only sees the flesh. There are SO many reasons as to why some act some ways. This is going to make me cry.. I've been married for over 35 years. I LOVE Jesus.. thinking knowing I HAVE Changed after all these yeasr for Christ. Died to self and HE shines in me. Just the other day got very mad.. man I thought that was gone. It really scared me that I got that mad..thats all I will say. Never said a word to her.. This is the part that really really hurts. I made my wife cry. And if you knew her.. she never cries. So anyone that saw me in that moment would say I was no follower of Christ. I may have been given a thought by the enemy but.. I did take it and act on it. Blood of Jesus. Just another reason to fall down and worship Him because with out Him.. I would have nothing.. as in the best part of me So try to see the good.. ask the Father to show you what He sees that we can't

AWESOME to read how are Father is ALWAYS moving. The two that came to mind.. one I was about 15 and I went to this bible study where they always said "if we say anything that is not in the word of God don't believe us". I had this huge wart on my left hand palm. So one night they asked if I wanted prayer. I said yes. So I sit in this chair and they started to pray for me about the wart on my hand. JUUUUUST before he was done praying.. he kinda stopped then said and lord even the ones between his toes. HUH? I NEVER EVER told ANYONE about all those I had between my toes. Later he said the lord show'd him those. About a week later all were gone. This was back in 1978. Never came back. I was about 19 and just out side of Spokane WA in this Church where this preacher came for a week. I was in the back with a friend. I was asking about some woman up front that was crying shouting so loud. He said "see most of these people here? " I said "yes" he said " they came with her. She was blind". I can still see her crying so hard shouting jumping. PLEASE always remember GOD always keeps His word and what He does for one? He does for ALL! Just take HIM not what I say or any story take HIM at HIS word. Trust..faith that what He said.. He will do.

John Gardner, 64, who received a lethal injection on January 16th 2020 for killing his wife Tammy back in 2005: "When asked by the warden if he had a final statement, Gardner apologized to his wife's son, daughter, and mother. "I would like to say sorry for your grief," he said. "I hope what I'm doing today will give you peace, joy, closure, whatever it takes to forgive. I am sorry. I know you cannot forgive me, but I hope one day you will." He also told several friends watching that he loved them, apologized again, and then asked the warden to begin. "I want to see the Lord Jesus so bad," Gardner said.

I liked reading all the pages of opinions on this topic. I don't often respond anymore to a lot of the topics, but it gives me an idea where the culture is with church people. I thought I might try my hand here at sharing my experiences and opinion. I'm sure most of you are familiar with Hebrews 10:24-25, "(24) and let us consider how to stimulate one another to love and good deeds, (25) not forsaking our own assembling together as is the habit of some....". I've had these 2 verses used against me several times by people who are into legalism or rule keeping, not into love or seeking out God's truth. What's wonderful for me is I know those 2 verses are for people with a poor heart condition about attending a church assembly, and have unholy excuses for not attending in accordance with God's word. For over 40 years I went to a church building to worship and raised all my 5 children in a church building all the years they were growing up. I served a lot and was eventually ordained as a deacon and either served in many ministries or led several ministries and did some preaching in 2 different churches, all the while studying my bible and researching the history of Christianity and the history of the bible Old and New Testament. It's been fascinating and opening my eyes journey especially when I started studying the New Testament in the original written language years ago. For all my years of going to worship I would hear or see things that wasn't in harmony with the scriptures I read, and so in the back of my mind that always bothered me, but life was so busy raising a family and providing for them, that all I could do was file all that away in the back of my mind for a later date as I continued to study when I had the time, usually at work on breaks and lunch, or before bed when it was quiet and I could concentrate. Fast forward several decades and I'm retired and all that I had filed away and sometimes had the time to write down, I was finally able to begin searching out, always praying for the truth, wisdom, knowledge and discernment (Proverbs 2). What a beautiful journey I started with the Holy Spirit, always leading me into the answers I was looking for to the questions I had for many decades. I had no agenda but the truth. His faithfulness was astounding and He led me to begin studying in the original language of the bible and that's where my eyes were really opened, and my faith slowly began to change. So here I am 17 years into retirement and my faith is hardly recognizeable compared to my earlier years with the Lord. What I had seen and heard in my earlier years of faith and questioned, God was faithful to help me understand all of that, and to set my faith and beliefs correctly, making adjustments and changing how I functioned in some area's of my faith, to where I am now at peace where my faith should be, according to God not man. Romans 14:22, "The faith which you have, have as your own conviction before God. Happy is he who doesn't condemn himself in what he approves." Earlier at the beginning, I mentioned Hebrews 10:24-25 about the attitude we should have about attending church from our hearts. If you have kept aware of what's happening in the church culture in the U.S., you'll know according to a ton of research polls that there is a mass migration and exodus from all the churches across our country. Some have left the faith completely, while others have left their churches but NOT the faith. Disappointed with the church teaching and doctrine as they grew into the truth, they have left and many are now meeting in church homes or still searching for something more meaningful and authentic. I'm in the later category. I too have left and won't return to anything like the first 40 years. I have moved on to a faith that is precious and real to me, and I want to be with authentic people who want to worship in truth and live by GOD's TRUTH in love for God and one another, and the world around us. This last year has been hard for me as this has been my first year in over 40 that I have been without a church home, but I know how much God loves me, and he will be faithful to open the right doors because He knows my heart, and He will honor my hearts desire to live my faith and my life to honor Him the way He has called me to - PRAISE GOD and HIS HOLY NAME To answer your original question, WHICH CHTISTIAN DENOMINATION IS TRUE I myself don't see any saving truth in any of the main stream churches at all today. Because of what is happening across America in churches today, the next 10 years could see a major shift as things continue to snowball as peoples beliefs continue changing. I even hear the same thought here. God is moving quietly in a mighty way if your paying attention to see it and hear it. My name is Oligos.

No that's not a troll. I express unpopular opinions all the time and I'm not a troll.

AND that "move" came under severe attack eventually too. Just as so many moves inspired by God have in the past. We've had a real problem with moves of God getting derailed or curtailed ...but He promised the Body will one day be matured into a complete representation of the FULLNESS of all He is. And it will....

You just did :p

Yes I do, ...they have a saying here which applies to me, "Il a deux pieds dans la tombe!" (He has two feet in the grave!) Very simply put, JESUS! At the time I went "crazy" I was not born again, so I followed the advice of my friends and when to the County Mental Health, ...they are the ones who made the diagnosis, ...after the tests they told me to sit down and wait, when the man who had originally talked with me came back ,he told me they had good news, ...they had a bed for me in the Mental Health Hospital, ...what??? I told him I was General Contractor, I had a crew presently working, I needed to go back to the job site for my tools, I had a contract with a time delay that if I didn't complete there would be legal actions taken against me, (I realize now God was being Gracious to me even then), ...and he allowed me to be an "outpatient" on two conditions, I take the drugs he prescribed every day and I come back to talk with him every two weeks. I bought the drugs and took them that night, ...it was the same as "coming on" to LSD, ...to fight the "psychedelic" effects I tore all of the paneling of the walls in my bathroom and started to remodel it. I never took the "drugs" again, the next Sunday a friend took me to church and there I was given a Bible with the Words of Jesus in red, I sat down that night and started in Genesis, ...boring, then flipping through the pages I found those Words in red, I started to read them and for the first time in 4 1/2 days I fell asleep, not for long, ...maybe 5 minutes, ...but my mind stopped spinning a 100 billion miles per second, ...so I read more and more, ...I even took that book with me to work, I found with my tool belt strapped around my waist I could think clear enough to work, ...however because I was maybe sleeping only an hour a night I was very tired so I would sit down on the tailgate of my pickup, read those Words in red (not having the slightest idea what they meant) and would fall asleep. I took about a year before I could sleep the night through, ...and by this time reading those Words in red had become a daily habit, my therapist had to literally teach me how to live and function as a human being again, ...how to socially interact with people, how to take on responsibility for something other than myself, it started at first with finding a pet, and then doing volunteer work, ...my final test was to commit myself to a long term project of volunteer work, ...finally after 18 months he declared me "sane" and gave all the credit to my faithfully taking his drugs (little did he know), ...and released me from the County Mental Health Program. I'm not the only one that God has healed their mental problems, ...pastor Mike MacIntosh fried his brain on LSD, ...there was doubt he would ever come back, ...but the Lord raised him up to many positions of responsibility, ...not only the pastor of one of the Lord's Mega Churches in San Diego, ...also chaplain for the San Diego police Department, and among many other things, he has served a spiritual advisers to the Presidents and is currently one of President Donald Trump's. Pastor J. Vernon McGee had a ranch where he went into the city and invited, the prostitutes, drug dealers, druggies, homeless to come and stay, ...the only agreement that was made is "they" wanted their life to change, ...they were to stay in their room and read the Bible, they were fed and had everything they needed, ...they could come out when they knew they were healed and free from their addictions, ...or when they gave up and wanted to go back to the city. Unfortunately this pastor lived 15 minutes from me when I was suffering from my insanity, ...and I didn't know about it, ...like I said, ...how I wish someone would of explained to me about God, Jehovah Rapha, the God who Heals. Ex 15:26 Personally I believe mental healing depends on whether we want to be healed, ...and I'm not talking about "Blab it and Grab it," ...but genuine heart faith that God has been healing each and every one of us since the moment of our conception, and believing and appropriating the Reality of we have been given, at our born again moment, ...the "mind" of Christ. 1 Cor 2:16 ...and no it has never recurred, ...how could it with the Holy Spirit living His life through me? Lord bless

I didnt get the memo

Nonsense. They're all-knowing, or at least they're supposed to be, didn't you know that?

Mods cant find things that are not reported lol. Hit that report button.

Whatwo.

The first seal is happening all around you. You might not be able to witness the spiritual aspect of it but you sure can see the effects.

Trolls are real things and yes the personality profile is easy to spot and consistent. It usually only takes a few replies to identify a troll...but not always. Some are more subtle and slow to wind up. The two common things are ego and a desire to hurt people to make themselves feel bigger. I am new to a Christian forum but have been around others and list serves since the beginning--in fact I built and run two forums, but they are invite only and are mostly "moderate your own selves" and it has worked for over 10 years now. I am finding it different at this (a Christian) forum, in that the stakes are higher. There are lies that can literally 'shipwreck' a young in the Lord believer. Not loss of Salvation, but loss of a healthy experience. Such is the way on this earth. So--this being the case, it seems to this individual--that there are times when its important to be a part of the conversation and at other times just let it fizzle out, by not feeding the troll or the one saying things that can harm. I am finding it to be challenging in a way, because we can't bring to bear the same 'tools' for lack of a better way to phrase it. We need to be asking the Lord before we respond and seek to do so in a manner that pleases Him and gets the job done. Make no mistake---this is a work and there are some 'gifted' workers here. Frankly--I have been humbled by such and I give thanks to our Lord.

During my career with Xerox I spent a lot of time in thousands of offices meeting people and getting to know many many people and talking.... Being a Christian we discussed spiritual things and passed information, beliefs and knowledge around. One afternoon I went into the Local Assembly of God Church to work on their printer.... The pastors wife was there and she was crying her eyes out.. I mean really boohooing... I thought something was drastically wrong so I asked her what had happened... she simply handed me a set of exrays and a single print from a cat scan and told me they were from a ten year old young girl who went to church there.... She had been pretty much sick her entire life according to the preacher's wife.... turned out she got so bad that they took her to the Children's Hospital in Oklahoma City to try and figure out why she was sick so much and why it was to bad that time. After many tests and things they took a series of exrays and discovered that she had a third kidney and that it was not hooked up to her bladder..... basically she had had a UTI her entire life with infections of this kidney... So, it needed to be removed but she had such an infection that they were concerned about surgery at all.... They put her on very powerful antibiotics for two weeks to clear up her infections so the surgery would be much safer to do.... during this time her parents took her to church and the entire congregation prayed over her laid hands on her and rebuked her problem. Day of surgery the surgeon was concerned about what he was about to have to cut through because she had some kind of genetic problem or she would not have this third kidney so he ordered a cat scan to make sure she didn't have nerves or arteries in the way... Well, he came out to talk to the parents and the pastor and his wife and escorted them into a room and showed them the cat scan results... No third kidney.... the girl was feeling fine and they sent her home.... I kept up with her for about 15 years and as far as I know she never had any more problems like she had had since her birth..... The pastors wife was just sitting there crying over the healing with hard proof that it had happened.... I still get emotional when I think about it.... Was a very enlightening day for me... So have I seen a miracle.... well no I didn't see the miracle, but I did see the results of it.... I would love to have been there the night they laid hands over her for I have to think there was spiritual things happening.

I'm Not A Troll, Honest I'm Not The Three Billy Goats Gruff Norway Once upon a time there were three billy goats, who were to go up to the hillside to make themselves fat, and the name of all three was "Gruff." On the way up was a bridge over a cascading stream they had to cross; and under the bridge lived a great ugly troll , with eyes as big as saucers, and a nose as long as a poker. So first of all came the youngest Billy Goat Gruff to cross the bridge. "Trip, trap, trip, trap! " went the bridge. "Who's that tripping over my bridge?" roared the troll . "Oh, it is only I, the tiniest Billy Goat Gruff , and I'm going up to the hillside to make myself fat," said the billy goat, with such a small voice. "Now, I'm coming to gobble you up," said the troll. "Oh, no! pray don't take me. I'm too little, that I am," said the billy goat. "Wait a bit till the second Billy Goat Gruff comes. He's much bigger." "Well, be off with you," said the troll. A little while after came the second Billy Goat Gruff to cross the bridge. Trip, trap, trip, trap, trip, trap, went the bridge. "Who's that tripping over my bridge?" roared the troll. "Oh, it's the second Billy Goat Gruff , and I'm going up to the hillside to make myself fat," said the billy goat, who hadn't such a small voice. "Now I'm coming to gobble you up," said the troll. "Oh, no! Don't take me. Wait a little till the big Billy Goat Gruff comes. He's much bigger." "Very well! Be off with you," said the troll. But just then up came the big Billy Goat Gruff . Trip, trap, trip, trap, trip, trap! went the bridge, for the billy goat was so heavy that the bridge creaked and groaned under him. "Who's that tramping over my bridge?" roared the troll. "It's I! The big Billy Goat Gruff ," said the billy goat, who had an ugly hoarse voice of his own. "Now I 'm coming to gobble you up," roared the troll. Well, come along! I've got two spears, And I'll poke your eyeballs out at your ears; I've got besides two curling-stones, And I'll crush you to bits, body and bones. That was what the big billy goat said. And then he flew at the troll, and poked his eyes out with his horns, and crushed him to bits, body and bones, and tossed him out into the cascade, and after that he went up to the hillside. There the billy goats got so fat they were scarcely able to walk home again. And if the fat hasn't fallen off them, why, they're still fat; and so, Snip, snap, snout. This tale's told out. https://pitt.edu/~dash/type0122e.html But You Should See My Big Brother~! The LORD is my rock, my fortress and my deliverer; my God is my rock, in whom I take refuge, my shield and the horn of my salvation, my stronghold. Psalms 18:2 lol~! Fun Stuff~! Love, Joe

Those who claim nondenominational are in and of themselves a denomination Bottom line: John 7:17-18 17 If any man will do his will, he shall know of the doctrine, whether it be of God, or whether I speak of myself. 18 He that speaketh of himself seeketh his own glory: but he that seeketh his glory that sent him, the same is true, and no unrighteousness is in him. KJV Rom 6:17-18 17 But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you. 18 Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness. KJV Rom 16:17 17 Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid them. KJV 1 Cor 14:6 6 Now, brethren, if I come unto you speaking with tongues, what shall I profit you, except I shall speak to you either by revelation, or by knowledge, or by prophesying, or by doctrine? KJV all this doctrine is derived from 'The Scriptures' 2 Tim 3:16-17 16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: 17 That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works. KJV

Why not see a christian counselor? Someone who is truly a christian not someone who will just pray with you if you ask, but someone who is a counselor who talks to you from a christian perspective? Just my thoughts. God bless you Rivers and I will be praying for you and your family.

I do disagree with core Catholic doctrine-i feel as a whole Catholicism misses the point, however, I have met many, many Catholics whom I believe do know the love of Christ and are Christian's, so again it's best never to judge a book by its cover. While I would never attend a Catholic church nor will I agree with much of their ideology, being Catholic doesn't disqualify someone from being a Christian-nor does it mean the local Catholic church is inheriently evil.

Replying to this part of your feedback: - Does the bible tell us not to question authority? Or does the bible just tell us to obey authority? - Aren't we supposed to test every spirit and hold on to which is good? - I am not part of the leadership, only serving in church. (there is only one leader in church, which is unbiblical, and that is the elder we are talking about now) - Months ago I had an one on one meeting with him. Later on 2 other meetings followed including other church members, talking about these issues. IDuring the last meeting, I really did put my pride aside and tried to explain to him the points. I also shared that Jesus taught us to be humble and He even washed the feet of His desciples and that we all are to follow His ways. The elder's reply was:"I will never wash your feet!" Then the period after he kept focussing on me openly, finding faults, eliminating me from the worship team. My wife was so disturbed by his open messages against me (church chatgroup), that she decided not to go to church anymore. That is when I decided to write the open letter. - I am trying to follow God's word. I don't dare to think of flipping anything around. God will make the amends. My prayer is that he will repent and trust in Jesus. - I have talked to other older & younger members of the church. They see the problem, they have the same problems with him, but they chose to ignore him... (in my eyes, to let him die in his sins). I just thought that this was not the right way. - Yes, obeying authority I agree, obeying the rules. But I really have trouble accepting the situation as it is. Just another example, he can snub at his wife just before we start a group prayer. When we are in His Holy church, before praying to the Holy God. How can you talk to your wife that way? The OT priests had to be clean before entering the temple. This elder may say bad things in the temple? So I choose to obey God above him and tried to find in the bible the proper way of action. Matthew 18:15-17 15 “If your brother or sister sins, go and point out their fault, just between the two of you. If they listen to you, you have won them over. 16 But if they will not listen, take one or two others along, so that ‘every matter may be established by the testimony of two or three witnesses.’17 If they still refuse to listen, tell it to the church; and if they refuse to listen even to the church, treat them as you would a pagan or a tax collector.

the thing is...all the denominations are run by humans....which are all flawed. thats right, all denominations are flawed, NONE are perfect. but most have some things right to. Find a church that has the core stuff down, and one where the peoples actions show their faith. If its not a salvational issue...but they got everything else right and are showing Christs love-then forget the sign on the door, thats a church worth going to. Don't split hairs over small stuff, like whether they use instruments or not.

Thanks, I am happy to hear your feedback. Because this I have been thinking and praying about this situation a lot. One of the reason I put my situation on this forum is also to ask for advice and test whether I have handled correctly / biblically. To humbly obey the rules is exactly what I have learned during this period. (the ones that are according to God's will, test and hold on to which is good) Note that it is not the rules that I have a problem with. I know the rules are correct and to be followed. But I think I am seeing two sides in this situation. One is me obeying God's words by obeying authorothy/rules in church. (be on time, wear proper clothing) Which I have been doing after his reprimands. But arriving late because I was evangelizing on the streets moments before, I think this could be viewed with some understanding and empathy. Just as Jesus healed on the sabbath day, the pharisee's objection was a similar objection. Jesus told us the most important commandment is to love God and to love one another. All laws are derived from these two basic rules. When we put too much emphasis on keeping the rules without kindness, gentleness, meekness, understanding and love. We easily become a pharisee. We totally miss the point of the laws. By healing on the sabbathday, Jesus reminded us the two most important commandments on which all others are build. Thus the other side of this situation is: don't focus on keeping laws and rules and forgetting the two most important commandments of Jesus Christ. To love God and to love your neighbour as yourself. On one side, I see my elder as authority placed by God, to be obeyed. (When according to God's will) On the otherside, I see my elder as a fellow christian brother, and I am actually worried about his current walk with Christ. I think if I wrote the letter out of hatred, then I should apologize. If I wrote the letter as an act of love for the church and his walk with Christ, written in truth and in spirit. My understanding was that it was according to God's will. Leaving the church was an option, but the parable of the Samaritan reminded me what I had to do. When you see a guy on the road, looking like a dead person, we are to act with compassion and out of love. Leaving would not fit what Jesus taught us. Leaving would be an act of selfishness. Don't misunderstand me, I don't think that I am the one that can push for changes. I believe God will make the needed changes, we are to obey His teachings and trust in His ways.

Shalom @Wesley L, This sounds difficult! Is it only you he is picking on? Is he singling you out? If so, I would advise a one-to-one discussion with him, with an arranged appointment so that both of you have time to discuss the matter in full. If it's affecting the church as a whole this is a serious problem. You are right to be concerned. But I don't think Yahweh would have you fight a one-man mission to overthrow his authority and bring in someone else. You want to be very careful at this time as people might start to perceive the situation as "him vs you", and it being a battle in which sides are being drawn. This will only affect your reputation ultimately - whether he stays or leaves. Therefore, try to approach the matter peacefully and humbly. Speak to trustworthy elders in the Church who you can confine in and share your heart. Perhaps they will witness the matter with you. And, if they take the matter in hands, they are in a better position to do such a thing than a member of a congregation. Yes, love truly is the most important thing to remember. If he has lost sight of this along the way, it won't work well for him. However, perhaps you can counter the darkness with light, and focus on ways to share more love at the church if he doesn't. I know that might sound flowery but bear with me. If your mind and heart is focused on "why does he say it like that!" and "what behaviour he shows!", this will start to rule your thoughts and subsequent actions. For look, you have already written a letter. But, if you can think on ways to bless someone at the church, offer a good idea or ways you can help your leader (as long as his rules and ideas are good), your thoughts and actions will show before others. Then, perhaps when others talk about the church rather than say "yes, the leader is quite odd though, and the atmosphere can be quite tense at times" to instead say "The people there are great, it really feels like a family" Remain in prayer, seeking for the Lord to bless this leader with wisdom and understanding and remind him of the Yahweh's great love, mercy and grace through the Word and Spirit. Pray also with others that the leadership and authority of the church will fall inline with Yahweh's will for it. If after 3 months (not that I want to put a timeframe on the Lord!) of praying like this there is still no change, then perhaps this is how the Lord wants it to be - for whatever unforeseen reason He may have. Remember that sometimes Yahweh sends us difficult leaders to challenge us, rather than for us just to find them challenging. If that's the case, listen with your heart to try understand what lesson you may be being taught through this man. Yes, he may be harsh and yes, he may be unloving - but what has this brought out in you and how has this affected your walk (meditate along those lines) I hope it goes well this weekend! Love & Shalom

I've debated with myself since this thread went up as to whether or not I would post, but since it continues to irk me, I figure I should. I don't know where the OP gets his facts from but perhaps he should post links for us all to see those numbers. Let's also remember, that many of the same things that are being said about the women of the church can be said of the men in the church (if not more so). I've known many Christian men who were willing to chase an attractive woman and casually toss aside their "faith" to have a relationship with them. I'm also bothered by the fact that we seem to be criticizing the ones who've fallen and further trying to put them to shame for past failure. Let's not forget that Jesus bent and knelt in the dirt for the one who was caught in the act of adultery (drop your stones). If they're forgiven by Him, then we shouldn't be putting them to further shame. None of us can stand perfectly righteous outside of His blood and we all have things we've done that cause us to come up short. And since I'm single and it's said that all single Christian women are looking for the "bad boy type" .... let me disprove that for you. We're not looking for bad boys - we're looking for REAL MEN... and sadly they seem to be a dying breed, both in the church and outside of the church. I personally feel like this thread does nothing to edify or build up the sisters in the body of Christ. It just demeans and paints a poor picture of them. Perhaps I'm taking it the wrong way but I just don't think we need to be further demeaning or ridiculing an entire gender of people based upon facts that haven't been proven to be true. I think we do live in a world that makes it difficult to be a "devout" Christian girl but instead of tearing them down why don't we try to build them up. I think there's more ladies out there who have their hearts set on God and pursue Him and His righteousness daily than this thread is implying. Just my thoughts.