Gauntlet

I wonder if you have ever read this story Believer? In Judges chapter 4, Barak was fighting against a man named Sisera and his army. Sisera fled from the battle and wound up at the home of a woman named Jael. She convinced Sisera that he would be safe staying with her. Let's see what happens beginning in verse 21. 21 Then Jael Heber's wife took a nail of the tent, and took an hammer in her hand, and went softly unto him, and smote the nail into his temples, and fastened it into the ground: for he was fast asleep and weary. So he died. You say God will ultimately judge all those who murder anyone? In chapter 5, Deborah, the Lord's prophet, sings a song of victory, and here is how she describes the act of Jael beginning in verse 24. 24 Blessed above women shall Jael the wife of Heber the Kenite be, blessed shall she be above women in the tent. 25 He asked water, and she gave him milk; she brought forth butter in a lordly dish. 26 She put her hand to the nail, and her right hand to the workmen's hammer; and with the hammer she smote off his head, when she had pierced and stricken through his temples. Perhaps you have read this story from Numbers 25? Let's begin at verse 6. 6 And, behold, one of the children of Israel came and brought unto his brethren a Midianitish woman in the sight of Moses, and in the sight of all the congregation of the children of Israel, who were weeping before the door of the tabernacle of the congregation. 7 And when Phinehas, the son of Eleazar, the son of Aaron the priest, saw it, he rose up from among the congregation, and took a javelin in his hand; 8 And he went after the man of Israel into the tent, and thrust both of them through, the man of Israel, and the woman through her belly. So the plague was stayed from the children of Israel. The children of Israel were being plagued because they had sinned, and this act by Phineahas brought about the end of the plague. In neither of these instances do I see God speaking directly to Jael or Phinehas and telling them to kill anyone. Using the Word of God to try and justify cold blooded murder is not a good thing. I am just making a point. Here are two examples where two individuals committed what could be described as cold blooded murder were blessed by God for doing so. I have hard time beleiving that. I'm not sure I could kil someone in cold blood if God Himself told me to do so. I think I would reject any God who tells me to kill as either the enemy or mental illness. If a voice in my head is instructing me to kill, that means it's time to have myself committed to a secure psychiatric facility. Muslim terrorists commit wholesale slaughter with clear consciences because in their mind, that is the will of God.

My thoughts exactly. Vigilance, not Vigilantism.

Of course it is. And if that anti-abortionist calls himself a christian, just imagine what that does to the name God. How many stumbling blocks do you suppose were thrown out because of that one stupid act? Moses was in Egypt at a time when the Jewish people were in bondage. There was an injustice taking place against his people, but it was the law of the land. He wound up killing an Egyptian to defend one of his own people. Was Moses hypocritcal? How many stumblingblocks do you suppose were thrown out because of that one stupid act? You can say what you will, but this is not a simple act of murder like you are making out. The people that usually commit these acts do so to save innocent lives. The Dr. wasn't about to perform an abortion. Big difference. Please, do not try and compare Moses with the guy who shot the Dr. And as for saving lives, the people who were scheduled to see the murdered Dr. will more than likely just change Dr.s. And yes, it is a simple act of murder. Boy that is some difference! The doctor wasn't "about to perform an abortion." If that is really your objection, then how about if the man waited at the clinic with a gun, and pleaded with the doctor not to kill anymore children, and the doctor refused to listen? Would it be ok to shoot him in that instance? The fact is, the doctor had killed, and was going to kill again, so my point is valid. And I have heard of many instances where after something like this occurs, many of the children that were scheduled to be killed survived. In case you didn't read the story, this was the only doctor in the state that did this procedure, so many of the future victims were likely saved. Your point is valid, but only in your own mind. The murder of one abortion doctor is not going to change anything, and you're wrong to think that violence is always the answer. Bullets are demonstrably poor witnessing techniques, but then again happiness is a warm gun. I never said violence is always the answer. If you bothered to read what I wrote, I made it clear I don't think that man should have shot the doctor. My point isn't that he was right in his actions, but that his actions were less reprehensible than that of the man he killed. By whose standards? God or man? Maybe you should ask God that question Gauntlet? I think it is common sense that killing a murderer to save his victim is differen't than being a gun for hire. Perhaps, but was their a victim in clear and present danger at the time of the murder? Was Tiller in the act of aborting a fetus when the church vigilante shot him?

Taking up for the abortion clinic doctor is supporting a man who commits murder, so using that standard, that means you are as guilty as the doctor. You need to be careful before you are so hasty in saying things like that and agreeing with it. If the abortion doctor had been armed at the time of the shooting, would it have made a difference? Shooting an unarmed man is always represensible according to the cowboy code. And if a gunfight had ensued, would the two parties have taken it outside so as not to spill blood on holy ground? If this is not the cowboy mentality, I don't know what is.

Of course it is. And if that anti-abortionist calls himself a christian, just imagine what that does to the name God. How many stumbling blocks do you suppose were thrown out because of that one stupid act? Moses was in Egypt at a time when the Jewish people were in bondage. There was an injustice taking place against his people, but it was the law of the land. He wound up killing an Egyptian to defend one of his own people. Was Moses hypocritcal? How many stumblingblocks do you suppose were thrown out because of that one stupid act? You can say what you will, but this is not a simple act of murder like you are making out. The people that usually commit these acts do so to save innocent lives. The Dr. wasn't about to perform an abortion. Big difference. Please, do not try and compare Moses with the guy who shot the Dr. And as for saving lives, the people who were scheduled to see the murdered Dr. will more than likely just change Dr.s. And yes, it is a simple act of murder. Boy that is some difference! The doctor wasn't "about to perform an abortion." If that is really your objection, then how about if the man waited at the clinic with a gun, and pleaded with the doctor not to kill anymore children, and the doctor refused to listen? Would it be ok to shoot him in that instance? The fact is, the doctor had killed, and was going to kill again, so my point is valid. And I have heard of many instances where after something like this occurs, many of the children that were scheduled to be killed survived. In case you didn't read the story, this was the only doctor in the state that did this procedure, so many of the future victims were likely saved. Your point is valid, but only in your own mind. The murder of one abortion doctor is not going to change anything, and you're wrong to think that violence is always the answer. Bullets are demonstrably poor witnessing techniques, but then again happiness is a warm gun. I never said violence is always the answer. If you bothered to read what I wrote, I made it clear I don't think that man should have shot the doctor. My point isn't that he was right in his actions, but that his actions were less reprehensible than that of the man he killed. By whose standards? God or man?

(KJV)

Of course it is. And if that anti-abortionist calls himself a christian, just imagine what that does to the name God. How many stumbling blocks do you suppose were thrown out because of that one stupid act? Moses was in Egypt at a time when the Jewish people were in bondage. There was an injustice taking place against his people, but it was the law of the land. He wound up killing an Egyptian to defend one of his own people. Was Moses hypocritcal? How many stumblingblocks do you suppose were thrown out because of that one stupid act? You can say what you will, but this is not a simple act of murder like you are making out. The people that usually commit these acts do so to save innocent lives. The Dr. wasn't about to perform an abortion. Big difference. Please, do not try and compare Moses with the guy who shot the Dr. And as for saving lives, the people who were scheduled to see the murdered Dr. will more than likely just change Dr.s. And yes, it is a simple act of murder. Boy that is some difference! The doctor wasn't "about to perform an abortion." If that is really your objection, then how about if the man waited at the clinic with a gun, and pleaded with the doctor not to kill anymore children, and the doctor refused to listen? Would it be ok to shoot him in that instance? The fact is, the doctor had killed, and was going to kill again, so my point is valid. And I have heard of many instances where after something like this occurs, many of the children that were scheduled to be killed survived. In case you didn't read the story, this was the only doctor in the state that did this procedure, so many of the future victims were likely saved. Your point is valid, but only in your own mind. The murder of one abortion doctor is not going to change anything, and you're wrong to think that violence is always the answer. Bullets are demonstrably poor witnessing techniques, but then again happiness is a warm gun.

The Christian church was never and is not a safe place. God is dangerous and very scarey if your on the wrong side. The Bible speaks of the Lord being a terror in the night to the wicked. The Lord did not strike the man down with a stroke or heart attack or illness. He was murdered by a person with a gun. Did that person sin? Are you saying the Lord 'lead' the person with the gun to kill him? Not at all sister, I was speaking to specific mindset that believe that God is safe and that the Church should be a peaceful and pacifistic place. I have already stated that murder is not a good idea and that no one should give into the temptation. You see, people will always use Scripture to normalize their own bloodlust, their secret appetites for murder & mayhem. If this is Christianity, I'd rather be an atheist.

There actually is a difference in the midset of the abortionist and the person who kills abortion clinic doctors. The doctors kill for money. The person who takes it upon himself to kill the doctor does so to defend the innocent. It would be like seeing a child being beaten to death in the park. Would it be murder to use deadly force to save the child? That is how they look at it? They call it justifiable homicide. I don't think God uses people like that, but those who commit those acts look at it as a means of saving lives. They are not people who simply have murder in their heart. Pro-life, it is hunting people down and shooting them like dogs, is actually not pro-life at all. It's hypocrisy and a prime example of how truly wicked is the heart of Man. Any action, no matter how depraved or bloody, can be justified by dragging the Name of God through it.

That did not address my question. It is not hypocritical of the anti-abortionists to murder abortion doctors?

It is not hypocritical of the anti-abortionists to murder abortion doctors?

The Christian church was never and is not a safe place. God is dangerous and very scarey if your on the wrong side. The Bible speaks of the Lord being a terror in the night to the wicked. You're sick.

An abortion doctor was shot (and presumably killed) during a church service, and all you can say is, "He should not have been there in the first place." Did that abortion doctor deserve to die like that, in the one place where everyone should feel safe? This kind of thing makes me physically ill and I can't stand it anymore.

Doesn't seem too earth-shaking of an observation. What point are you making? It went right over your head.