sail2awe

Amo 3:1 Hear this word that the LORD hath spoken against you, O children of Israel, against the whole family which I brought up from the land of Egypt, saying, Amo 3:2 You only have I known of all the families of the earth: therefore I will punish you for all your iniquities. Is it not written that the Lord came to save sinners, and in that, it is by "the faith of Him", not the faith of sinners. Mat 11:22 But I say unto you, It shall be more tolerable for Tyre and Sidon at the day of judgment, than for you. Luk 10:12 But I say unto you, that it shall be more tolerable in that day for Sodom, than for that city. More tolerable? Is not to perish and to be destroyed the ultimate punishment. This then suggests that they of that city have not been judged to perish utterly, as there is this statement giving sway to something other than their end being that of eternal punishing or eternal death. Whatever their judgment is to be, there is something far worse, indicating the Hebrew understanding of judgement is not one of eternal punishing coming from and eternal God who is very love itself. It seems to me, a noteworthy and remarkable feature of the apostles and prohetic writings only speak about hell when speaking of Israel. They never write of hell being applied to non Jews. Has this been noted and given it's due consideration? that the apostle of the gentiles never speaks of hell? Well, he does use the word 'hell' once, but since it is properly translated 'grave', so one might miss it: 1Co 15:54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory. 1Co 15:55 O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory? That is the one place the apostle to the gentiles uses the word hell, and if I am in this company of victory, then the author and the finisher of my faith has not labored in vain. Surely, my Salvation rests in the Lord and not upon any works or lack of works which might come from me, for it is written Psa 74:12 For God is my King of old, working salvation in the midst of the earth. 2Ti 1:7 For God hath not given us the spirit of fear; but of power, and of love, and of a sound mind. 2Ti 1:8 Be not thou therefore ashamed of the testimony of our Lord, nor of me his prisoner: but be thou partaker of the afflictions of the gospel according to the power of God; 2Ti 1:9 Who hath saved us, and called us with a holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began, 2Ti 1:10 But is now made manifest by the appearing of our Savior Jesus Christ, who hath abolished death, and hath brought life and immortality to light through the gospel: Act 4:12 Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved. Heb 10:17 And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more. Heb 10:18 Now where remission of these is, there is no more offering for sin. Heb 10:19 Having therefore, brethren, boldness to enter into the holiest by the blood of Jesus, Heb 10:20 By a new and living way, which he hath consecrated for us, through the veil, that is to say, his flesh Gal 2:16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified. Phi 3:9 And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith Isa 53:11 He shall see of the travail of his soul, and shall be satisfied: by his knowledge shall my righteous servant justify many; for he shall bear their iniquities. Heb 10:17 And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more. Heb 8:12 For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more. 2Co 5:19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation. Eph 3:8 Unto me, who am less than the least of all saints, is this grace given, that I should preach among the Gentiles the unsearchable riches of Christ; Eph 3:9 And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ: Eph 3:10 To the intent that now unto the principalities and powers in heavenly places might be known by the church the manifold wisdom of God, Eph 3:11 According to the eternal purpose which he purposed in Christ Jesus our Lord: Eph 3:12 In whom we have boldness and access with confidence by the faith of him. Can we trust the faithful stewards who the Holy Spirit deemed worthy to send forth the Salvation message of God, that He came to save sinners, and will remember our sin no more? Is it better to trust men who say differently? 2Pe 1:19 We have also a more sure word of prophecy; whereunto ye do well that ye take heed, as unto a light that shineth in a dark place, until the day dawn, and the day star arise in your hearts: 2Pe 1:20 Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the Scripture is of any private interpretation. 2Pe 1:21 For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost. 1Ti 2:4 Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth. 1Ti 2:5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus; 1Ti 2:6 Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time. Surely if in our defense, the mediator who is standing where the prosecutor would normally stand is more than able to deliever that which He came to do, died, risen, sending forth the word of Salvation to all nations, then it is not a matter of Salvation being a gift from God, but a matter of if we believe it. Surely, when God sends something forth, it shall come to pass. This being so, then perhaps it is a lack of understanding which is natural to mankind which is the problem, and one in which the omnipotent grace and knowledge of God shall have considered before the foundation of the world 2Ti 1:9 Who hath saved us, and called us with a holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began, Eph 2:5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, by (grace ye are saved;) 2Co 5:20 Now then we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God did beseech you by us; we pray you in Christ's stead, be ye reconciled to God. 2Co 5:21 For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.

Phi 2:5 Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus Phi 2:3 Let nothing be done through strife or vainglory; but in lowliness of mind let each esteem other better than themselves. Phi 2:4 Look not every man on his own things, but every man also on the things of others. 1Jo 4:16 And we have known and believed the love that God hath to us. God is love; and he that dwelleth in love dwelleth in God, and God in him. Joh 12:47 And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world. 1Ti 1:15 This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief. Phi 2:5 Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus: Phi 2:6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God: Phi 2:7 But made himself of no reputation, *and* took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men: (there is no *and* in the Greek, the verse does not speak of two things, rather an explanation) Phi 2:8 And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.

Additionally, Mark 13 coincides with the reading of Rev 6 in side by side comparisons. Luke 21 is somewhat of a side view of Mat24 and Mar13.

My point, even if stated poorly, is this: Most folks can't see the forest for the trees. One can only see the whole forest when taking the necessary steps so as to see the larger view. Simply taking one verse here and one verse there can be a dangerous system, if done in such a way as to prove a point of human understanding. When we stand so close to the picture that we only see the peices, then we only have the pieces in view which are in front of us, and it is these pieces we try to fit into our understanding. Our understanding is just the opposite of what we have the written Word given us for. We have the written Word so that we might have the Lord from heaven's understanding. And that shall not come into view until we have enough of the larger view so as we can allow ourselves to patiently see where every piece jointly fits together. Its like the 20,000 piece puzzle with no picture on the box. We know it is best to find the edges first, then see where the pieces fit afterwards. And when we do not begin the fitting together of all the pieces, there is alot of time envolved in trying to fit them into whatever it is we are currently looking at. Rightly dividing the Word of Truth. Well, those are the words from the LXX found in proverbs instructing that we acknowledge where the Lord from heaven has directed the paths. Dividing - directed. NOW, Acts 28. 25-28, that by the vessel and chosen apostle of the Lord is sent to for the hope of all nations to see what is the fellowship of the mystery, there is cause to rightly divide the word of truth. There was no reason to rightly divide it before, because before the Salvation of God was sent to the nations, there was only one instruction to one nation, BUT NOW the word of truth was given to Paul to complete the word of God, which was kept secret from the foundation of the world. The secret? That there is a heavenly kingdom in which the Lord would call out a chosen company which He chose in Himself BEFORE the foundation of the world. That this chosen company would not only be blessed in the heavenly places, but they would be so blessed without comeing to the Lord through the chosen channel for the nations - Israel. It is this portion of the kingdom having not been revealed to His chosen nation, Israel, who He had chosen SINCE, or FROM the foundation of the world. 2 distinct callings, one chosen since the foundation of the world, one chosen before that occurrence. One is earthly, one is heavenly. These are two different and seperate callings, two companies of called out ones, each having the promise of inheritance and enjoyment in seperate spheres of blessings. One is earthy, and in the earth. One is heavenly and far above all heavens. Then there is the further simple statements which place the overcomers of Israel in that heavenly city, which comes down to the earth from heaven and is strictly Hebrew in character. That makes 3 spheres of blessings, in the earth, in the heavenly city which comes down to the earth in that very land, and in the heavenly places far above all heavens. 1 + 1 + 1 = 3.

This was written in violation of the Sabbath day law. What is the Biblical penalty for violation the Sabbath day law?

The answer to this one is so obvious that it can be easily overlooked, but here it is: Revelation is a letter which is written to the tribes of Israel, who will minister to those nations of population who are 'hurt' of the second death, of who shall need to hear the word of God for a thousand years, albeit in a transfigured body. Revelation means to make known. Revelation is telling of when God again begins to work with His chosen nation and people, who are and have always been, Israel. The difference is that the church of the prison epistles is speaking to a different company of His choosing, who are a company of called out ones from all nations, who have an heavenly kingdom inheritance, whereas Israel has an earthly kingdom inheritance. When we mix these memberships together, is it because God has mixed them together as one? or is it a tradition of man? In otherwords, has God made distinctions from Israel and Gentiles? or of heaven and earth? If He has, would it be correct to honor the Lord by acknowledging these differences, even if churches teach otherwise? or should we forget what the Bible actually states, trading it for what sounds good to us now, that God gave us Israel's kingdom inheritance. If we believe that God has placed us in Israel's kingdom, then why do people think they are going to spend eternity in heaven? Israel is never said to be in heavenly places. Only the church of the mystery, as revealed by the apostle to the gentiles have any verses placing any called out company in heavenly places, so, when people think they are going to heaven, then why do they apply verses to themselves which are written to a people who have an earthly inheritance? IMO, God didn't mix things together. Dispesation of promise: Law - God working with an earthly people who shall have blessings in His earthly kingdom. Dispensation of grace: Grace, not law - God not working with an earthly people, and building up a faith based body who shall have blessings in the heavenly places. Again, the obvious often just escapes us; Satan is angry that God woluld raise up a people from the flesh for an inheritance rather than the most beautiful archangel in all of creation. God gave a higher authority (potentially now, reality in that day of redemption) to the lowly and Satan's already then old man nature only saw pride and self, whereas we know (some know) that even now we do enter into His rest, even now we can be quickened in spirit. It is the new nature which lets the ego and self slide into the past, ever seeking the knowledge of God rather than things on this earth. Yes, it causes death, for it is given for every to die once. Even the Lord from heaven Himself would come in the flesh and do this. Only those fallen angels did not come here by the water and the blood, only those fallen angels are spoken of as violating this LAW, having left there first estate (Jude). John made a big deal about the fact that Christ came by water and blood. The OT makes a big deal about the everlasting Father, God, coming in the flesh to fulfill the law of sin and death, which is really, imo, the only way to let the children learn - through direct experience, of what death is, that chosing life becomes the one important vehicle to the truth of God, who is verily love itself. The whole of the teachings are readily visible, but they are only discerned spiritually. God is Spirit, He maketh His angels spirits. When the body dies the spirit returns to God who gave it. The OT is clear on this, He knew us before we were in the womb, before we were flesh. Christ told Nico that you must physically be born from above, but this cannot be understood carnally, for spiritual things are discerned spiritually. Even the place the angels came when they left their first estate (heavenly body) is called 'the breach of the waters'. You must be born of spiritual water. The 'sea' of people, the merchants of Tyre, the ships of Chittem, the river of life, &c, &c. God reveals and we think we know? How can we know? when we don't know God? How can we trust someone that we do not know? If we do not trust that God has a perfect plan that is far reaching and blessed by grace and love wherein we are offered to enter into His rest even now, if we believe it - when we do not trust God in this: It is obvious. The reason we do not trust, is because we do not know Him. And how can this be, when He wrote His plan of the ages down for us so that we can know Him? Are we so prideful that we think we can just apply His instruction for one people to this people of the dispensation of grace? Are we so prideful that we will just foresake His blessings in the heavenly places because all we can see is what He wrote to the Nation of Israel? He told us where everyone is going to end up AND who they are, so - which letters have God's instructions in them for you? Which letter has your name on the envelope? and which letters have the name of Israel on the envelope?

Hi Remnant, I would like to focus in on one word in the above comment. The word is the cause of so much confusion, so much mixing. The word is 'we'. I realize there are some Hebrew tribal members on this forum, but I cannot say my fathers were in bondage in Egypt when the Hebrews were supernaturally led out from bondage, so I cannot say WE don't sacrifice anymore. Perhaps you are Hebrew though, but for many spiritual babies, the word alludes to a situation which never existed. There is no we as in the nations who ever new God. The same letters (the prison epistles) which were written to the nations, for the hope of you gentiles, which tells us that all Scripture is God breathed, and instructs us to rightly dive the word, reminds us of this fact: Eph 2:11 Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands; Eph 2:12 That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world. Gentiles never had sacrifices to the true and living God, and were never instructed to take upon the Mosaic law at all. Those 4 laws which seemed good to the Holy Spirit were only in place because of necessity. When you or I eat, we don't have to worry about what touched what, but back then, there was no way a Jew could take food from the same table even as a gentile. They baptized everything, ritual washings. That is the only reason the HS institued any rule of law for the gentiles whatsoever, so that by the Lord, the Lord could manuvuer the gentiles into close enough proximity to use them to 'provoke Israel to emmulation', that they might bear the fruit meet for repentance and receive the kingdom and go out unto all nations and execute Mat28.28 (I think it is). That was of course done away with too, when 'all Israel' had heard, and Acts 28.28 occurred. I don't think people realize how dramatic it was for God to step out of Israe's picture, leaving them nothing from the OT to work with, for there is no instruction for them IF they did not receive the kingdom they had been trained to receive. Act 28:29 And when he had said these words, the Jews departed, and had great reasoning among themselves. Act 28:30 And Paul dwelt two whole years in his own hired house, and received all that came in unto him, Act 28:31 Preaching the kingdom of God, and teaching those things which concern the Lord Jesus Christ, with all confidence, no man forbidding him. What words? Look them up. It is heavy duty. They had been following Paul around trying to kill him, trying to undermine his every move, but now, they were blinded. Look at the gravity of that last verse above. After spending all day with the head Jews of the synogagues, the apostle pleads with the Jews, 'for the hope of Israel I am bound with this chain' (28.20), And then NOTHING, no man forbidding him. They were blind indeed, and the apostle is then sent to the Gentiles for the first time, the gentiles have an apostle from God sent to them to make known what is their own particular hope. A sure hope that will come to pass. A hope not found in the OT. It cannot possibly have any connection with the OT because this hope has to do with God's calling, just as Israel's hope did, just like the gentiles who were blessed through Israel during the Acts also had a calling connected with a hope. The sabbath days have no mention in our letters save to say don't let the Jews judge you in not keeping the Mosaic law. I mean, even Israel was being instructed to grow up out from the picture words of the OT, which the law, the tabernacle, their dress, food, absolutely everything was a picture or type pointing to the real and the true, and He came. Much more are we gentiles to respect what God was doing with Israel, and much more we should question where are the instructions for gentiles to take upon the Mosaic law, seeing as how Israel was even being instructed to 'continue onto perfection', we should need specific instructions in the like manner as Israel had received if we are to take upon Israel's law, but we don't. They simply are not there. I was going to post more on the cerimonial, but it is all I can do to make my posts as short as they are, belive it or not, lol.

Psa 147:19 He showeth his word unto Jacob, his statutes and his judgments unto Israel. Psa 147:20 He hath not dealt so with any nation: and as for his judgments, they have not known them. Praise ye the LORD. Lev 26:45 But I will for their sakes remember the covenant of their ancestors, whom I brought forth out of the land of Egypt in the sight of the heathen, that I might be their God: I am the LORD. Lev 26:46 These are the statutes and judgments and laws, which the LORD made between him and the children of Israel in mount Sinai by the hand of Moses. Psa 78:5 For he established a testimony in Jacob, and appointed a law in Israel, which he commanded our fathers, that they should make them known to their children: Deu 4:8 And what nation is there so great, that hath statutes and judgments so righteous as all this law, which I set before you this day? Lev 16:31 It shall be a sabbath of rest unto you, and ye shall afflict your souls, by a statute forever. Lev 16:32 And the priest, whom he shall anoint, and whom he shall consecrate to minister in the priest's office in his father's stead, shall make the atonement, and shall put on the linen clothes, even the holy garments: Lev 16:33 And he shall make an atonement for the holy sanctuary, and he shall make an atonement for the tabernacle of the congregation, and for the altar, and he shall make an atonement for the priests, and for all the people of the congregation. Lev 16:34 And this shall be an everlasting statute unto you, to make an atonement for the children of Israel for all their sins once a year. And he did as the LORD commanded Moses. 2Co 3:7 But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not steadfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away: 2Co 3:8 How shall not the ministration of the spirit be rather glorious? 2Co 3:9 For if the ministration of condemnation be glory, much more doth the ministration of righteousness exceed in glory. 2Co 3:10 For even that which was made glorious had no glory in this respect, by reason of the glory that excelleth. 2Co 3:11 For if that which is done away was glorious, much more that which remaineth is glorious. Heb 10:1 For the law having a shadow of good things to come, and not the very image of the things, can never with those sacrifices which they offered year by year continually make the comers thereunto perfect. Gal 3:23 But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed. Gal 3:24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith. Gal 3:25 But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster. Joh 1:17 For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ. Rom 8:3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh: Rom 8:4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. Act 15:10 Now therefore why tempt ye God, to put a yoke upon the neck of the disciples, which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear? Rom 7:5 For when we were in the flesh, the motions of sins, which were by the law, did work in our members to bring forth fruit unto death. Rom 7:6 But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter. Rom 8:2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death. Rom 10:4 For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth. Gal 2:16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified. Isa 1:13 Bring no more vain oblations; incense is an abomination unto me; the new moons and sabbaths, the calling of assemblies, I cannot away with; it is iniquity, even the solemn meeting. Rom 6:14 For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace. Gal 2:21 I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain. Gal 5:4 Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.

ephesian, Hello, and thank you for sharing of the Lord Jesus Christ's good work in your life. Keep up the faith and honesty ephesian, it is refreshing to see, I thank you for it in praising the Lord with you. Re the Salvation of God, recalling:

Wherein is the good news of Christ then? if it isn't in the finished work on the tree? If it is left up to what men must do, then surely we should be most miserable men indeed.

Butero, I feel this was a perfectly true picture story of He who was to come, and too, that this is adequately addressed in the NT: Heb 10:1 For the law having a shadow of good things to come, and not the very image of the things, can never with those sacrifices which they offered year by year continually make the comers thereunto perfect. 2 For then would they not have ceased to be offered? because that the worshipers once purged should have had no more conscience of sins. 3 But in those sacrifices there is a remembrance again made of sins every year. 4 For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and of goats should take away sins. 5 Wherefore when he cometh into the world, he saith, Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not, but a body hast thou prepared me: 6 In burnt offerings and sacrifices for sin thou hast had no pleasure. 7 Then said I, Lo, I come (in the volume of the book it is written of me,) to do thy will, O God. 8 Above when he said, Sacrifice and offering and burnt offerings and offering for sin thou wouldest not, neither hadst pleasure therein; which are offered by the law; 9 Then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second. 10 By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all. 2Co 3:6 Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life. 7 But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not steadfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away: 8 How shall not the ministration of the spirit be rather glorious? 9 For if the ministration of condemnation be glory, much more doth the ministration of righteousness exceed in glory. 10 For even that which was made glorious had no glory in this respect, by reason of the glory that excelleth. 11 For if that which is done away was glorious, much more that which remaineth is glorious. 12 Seeing then that we have such hope, we use great plainness of speech: 13 And not as Moses, which put a veil over his face, that the children of Israel could not steadfastly look to the end of that which is abolished 14 But their minds were blinded: for until this day remaineth the same veil untaken away in the reading of the old testament; which veil is done away in Christ.

puleeze, take your letters over a 30 year period and the same study will show you didn't write all your own letters too. fact is, our writing and our styles do change, but better still, is the fact that Paul signed, but didn't write most of his letters. He had an eye condition from being struck blind on the road to Damascus. So its the Bible's fault that people disagree and split up? I must say, that I too, have never found a contradiction. I have found named figures of speech, Hebraisms, idiom, men refusing to see the intelligent design of God's creation and so forth, and I can read of being warned about such times coming, but better is that God is able to use even the greatest failures of men to His own purpose. For a site which specializes in teaching atheist of God's wisdom and truth, is the following one, wherein this atheist scientist teacher guy found by looking into science that God must exist: http://www.doesgodexist.org/

sorry about the lengths. its a really really big book. and the subject is greater still. Could you please post these verses which you "find clear teachings that the Law of God is not only still in effect but it is the character of God if you really want to know him." regarding gentiles ? <who, as far as I can see, were never under law> Thank you.

Hold on now, I never said there werent such a thing as willful sinners.. My point is that the apostle does't leave us to guess what the willful sinning might be, within the context he is giving. The apostle tells us what wilful sinners are, and it has to do with counting the blood of lambs and goats and bullocks more able to save than Christ's blood, thereby making His blood but common: Heb 10:29 Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace? Remember, this entire dialog has rested Jews and Jewish law regarding the taking away of sin. This is to believers. This isnot to establish Salvation, that had been established in the first few chapters, this has moven forward and is about overcomers of overcoming faith, why, the very next chapter gives a long list of them even; Heb 10:11 And every priest standeth daily ministering and offering oftentimes the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins: Heb 10:12 But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins forever, sat down on the right hand of God; Heb 10:13 From henceforth expecting till his enemies be made his footstool. Heb 10:14 For by one offering he hath perfected forever them that are sanctified. Heb 10:15 Whereof the Holy Ghost also is a witness to us: for after that he had said before, Heb 10:16 This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them; Heb 10:17 And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more. Heb 10:29 Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace? What could a Hebrew do to be seen as trodding under foot the Son of God, counting the blood of the covenant by which they were saved as an unholy thing? Well, they could put their trust in the blood of animals, they would surely lose their reward for doing that, for "draw back" unto bondage by the works of law, seeking their own salvation, but they "are not of them who draw back...but of them that believe to the saving of the soul". There it is, right in the very chapter itself: Heb 10:38 Now the just shall live by faith: but if any man draw back, my soul shall have no pleasure in him. Heb 10:39 But we are not of them who draw back unto perdition; but of them that believe to the saving of the soul. perdition apōleia, From a presumed derivative of G622; ruin or loss NOT THE LOSS OF SALVATION, loss of reward Paul maintains the subject of reward and loss of reward being associated with the blood of Christ: Heb 10:35 Cast not away therefore your confidence, which hath great recompense of reward. Heb 12:1 Wherefore seeing we also are compassed about with so great a cloud of witnesses, let us lay aside every weight, and the sin which doth so easily beset us, and let us run with patience the race that is set before us, Heb 12:2 Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God. Heb 12:3 For consider him that endured such contradiction of sinners against himself, lest ye be wearied and faint in your minds. Heb 12:4 Ye have not yet resisted unto blood, striving against sin. Heb 10:29 Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace? I am not trying to be 'right' here, I am trying to show forth some verses which contain God's interpretation, merely pointing to the verses which might bring to view the simplicity which is in Christ. We are clearly told that those who willfully sin, those who cannot see the true gospel, are blinded by the god of this world. Salvation is a free gift: http://www.worthyboards.com/forums/index.p...425845&st=280

Rom 4:2 For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God. Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Eph 2:9 Not of works, lest any man should boast. In chapter 3 of Romans, Paul brings them before the court of God where they whole world stands guilty before the righteous Lord God. In chapter 1 the apostle reminds them of the gentiles,