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About Steve_S

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    Rom 10:9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

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  1. Steve_S

    Prayer needed for auto accident

    I just cleaned this up a bit. Please remember this is a prayer thread! Praying as well!
  2. Steve_S

    The Passion Bible

    Removed from thread for this statement.
  3. Steve_S

    New Testament Inerrancy

    Banned from thread for above comment.
  4. Steve_S

    Why Faith?

    Steve w removed from thread for this comment.
  5. Steve_S

    Defense of the Pre Trib Rapture

    Cobalt banned from thread for this statement.
  6. You mention Matthew 13:55-56. It seems you are claiming that these men were not his brothers by Mary, but instead were simply believers? If this is the assertion, it's easily proven incorrect using scripture only. Joh 2:12 After this He went down to Capernaum, He, His mother, His brothers, and His disciples; and they did not stay there many days. This was after immediately after the wedding at Cana, Christ's first recorded miracle in the book of John and probably the first of His ministry occurred at this wedding when He turned water into wine. There were only five disciples mentioned at this point (only four by name) and they had all been called within the previous week, Andrew, Simon Peter, and the unnamed disciple (probably John) at Bethabara after John the Baptist said "Behold the Lamb of God who takes away the sins of the world" in the presence of the unnamed disciple and Andrew (both then disciples of John the Baptist), who then went and Retrieved Simon Peter. The last day in Bethabara Jesus was intent on traveling into Galilee (John 1:43). Not incidentally, Cana was in Galilee, directly west of the Sea of Galilee and about halfway between it and the Mediterranean Sea, maybe 15 to 20 miles of travel. The third day (almost certainly the third day from when Nathanael was called), there was a wedding in Cana. Mary was there and Jesus and His disciples were invited. I will post the scripture one more time for context. Joh 2:12 After this He went down to Capernaum, He, His mother, His brothers, and His disciples; and they did not stay there many days. This gives us a clear and concise delineation between Christ's disciples and Christ's brothers (who were born of Mary and Joseph). Any other theory along the lines of the one you pose above regarding "brothers in Christ" would require this sentence to actually mean "He, His mother, his disciples, his disciples, and they did not stay there (Capernaum) many days," which is, of course, absurd. This, of course, isn't the only evidence. We have yet another passage that specifically differentiates between Christ's brothers and His disciples. Joh 7:1 After these things Jesus walked in Galilee; for He did not want to walk in Judea, because the Jews sought to kill Him. Joh 7:2 Now the Jews' Feast of Tabernacles was at hand. Joh 7:3 His brothers therefore said to Him, "Depart from here and go into Judea, that Your disciples also may see the works that You are doing. Joh 7:4 For no one does anything in secret while he himself seeks to be known openly. If You do these things, show Yourself to the world." Joh 7:5 For even His brothers did not believe in Him. Joh 7:6 Then Jesus said to them, "My time has not yet come, but your time is always ready. Joh 7:7 The world cannot hate you, but it hates Me because I testify of it that its works are evil. Joh 7:8 You go up to this feast. I am not yet going up to this feast, for My time has not yet fully come." This is pretty much self explanatory. Christ's own brothers did not believe He was Messiah (not yet, anyway). They encouraged Him to leave in an almost chiding manner, basically accusing Him of hiding out in Galilee. If they were his "brothers" in a spiritual sense, there's a big problem, because they didn't believe he was the Christ! Not only that, his brothers told Him to leave so He can show His disciples the works He was doing. There is no possible way to interpret these "brothers" as being his disciples. Mary's perpetual virginity is an abject absurdity in light of Matthew 1:24-25 as well. Mat 1:24 Then Joseph, being aroused from sleep, did as the angel of the Lord commanded him and took to him his wife, Mat 1:25 and did not know her till she had brought forth her firstborn Son. And he called His name JESUS. That version is the NKJV, which is what I typically use. Below are some translations that are officially sanctioned by the catholic church. 24 After Joseph woke up, he and Mary were soon married, just as the Lord’s angel had told him to do. 25 But they did not sleep together before her baby was born. Then Joseph named him Jesus. (CEV). 24 When Joseph awoke, he did as the angel of the Lord had commanded him and took his wife into his home. 25 He had no relations with her until she bore a son,[a] and he named him Jesus. (NABRE) 24 When Joseph awoke from sleep, he did as the angel of the Lord commanded him; he took her as his wife, 25 but had no marital relations with her until she had borne a son; and he named him Jesus. (NRSV, CE) Pretty much every bible translation I know of translates this in the same or a similar manner as above. Words have meaning, words matter, and when the words in the scripture point to an obvious event, the only reason to discount them is to prop up a doctrine that is not present in the text itself, particularly to protect a doctrine that is clearly counter-indicated by the text itself, which is precisely the situation we find ourselves in here. If we were having a pleasant conversation one morning and I said to you "I didn't leave for work until I had coffee," would you assume that I never left for work? That I simply had coffee and retired to my living room for the rest of the day? If I said to you "John didn't escort Jane to the store until after she called him to let him know she was ready," would you assume that after she called him to let him know she was ready, he just never picked her up? Of course not. It's absurd! It is also absurd to assume that the word "until" here is easily interchanged with a word or words such as "ever" or "at all." Why, if one were to start changing the meanings of words so easily, they could find themselves making the bible say anything they'd like, and who wants that? I assume no one! I could go on, but I don't think there's any point in it. As noted above, even bibles that the Catholic church officially sanction are clear in their translation of Matthew 1:24-25 and this clearly states that he (Joseph) only refrained from marital relations with Mary until she had delivered Jesus. We can debate the meaning of the word "until" I suppose, but is that really necessary? It would be a farce. I suppose I could also show examples of the underlying Greek word here - heos (transliterated) actually meaning "until" in or "till, etc., but would there be any profit in that? Probably not. Any number of catholic theologians do all sorts of scriptural gymnastics to get around what the text clearly states in multiple areas regarding Christ's brothers and especially with regard to Mary's virginity after Christ's birth, but they do not derive that doctrine itself from the scriptures, but from the sacred tradition and other sources that are not God breathed. Man's tradition is perpetually wrought with failure after failure after failure throughout history in every possible context. God's word, though, will never pass away and can always be trusted. This is not a textual debate, try as the catholic church might to make it one, but a philosophical debate on whether or not the scriptures are what really matter. Here on our forums we affirm the primacy of the scriptures over any other source or combination of sources. This is specified within our statement of faith and we do take it seriously.
  7. Steve_S

    Defense of the Pre Trib Rapture

    Poster removed from thread for this post.
  8. Hadasa removed from thread for above comments.
  9. I don't think that it's possible to identify him before this moment with any certainty. I am positive that when he is making his rise to power and such that many Christians will be suspicious, but the wording of 2 Thessalonians 2:1 right there says it all "and that man of sin be revealed." Ultimately I don't think that we can be assured that this is the "one" so to speak until he has set himself up in the temple in Jerusalem. If you read through Matthew 24, even in a nonexpositional manner: Mat 24:3 Now as He sat on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to Him privately, saying, "Tell us, when will these things be? And what will be the sign of Your coming, and of the end of the age?" The discourse starts with a question on the part of the disciples. Mat 24:4 And Jesus answered and said to them: "Take heed that no one deceives you. Mat 24:5 For many will come in My name, saying, 'I am the Christ,' and will deceive many. Mat 24:6 And you will hear of wars and rumors of wars. See that you are not troubled; for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet. Mat 24:7 For nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom. And there will be famines, pestilences, and earthquakes in various places. Mat 24:8 All these are the beginning of sorrows. The signs mentioned above are the beginning of the sorrows, the gathering clouds on the horizon if you will. Mat 24:9 "Then they will deliver you up to tribulation and kill you, and you will be hated by all nations for My name's sake. Mat 24:10 And then many will be offended, will betray one another, and will hate one another. Mat 24:11 Then many false prophets will rise up and deceive many. Mat 24:12 And because lawlessness will abound, the love of many will grow cold. Mat 24:13 But he who endures to the end shall be saved. Mat 24:14 And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in all the world as a witness to all the nations, and then the end will come. Mat 24:15 "Therefore when you see the 'ABOMINATION OF DESOLATION,' spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place" (whoever reads, let him understand), Mat 24:16 "then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains. Mat 24:17 Let him who is on the housetop not go down to take anything out of his house. Mat 24:18 And let him who is in the field not go back to get his clothes. Mat 24:19 But woe to those who are pregnant and to those who are nursing babies in those days! Mat 24:20 And pray that your flight may not be in winter or on the Sabbath. Mat 24:21 For then there will be great tribulation, such as has not been since the beginning of the world until this time, no, nor ever shall be. Mat 24:22 And unless those days were shortened, no flesh would be saved; but for the elect's sake those days will be shortened. Mat 24:23 "Then if anyone says to you, 'Look, here is the Christ!' or 'There!' do not believe it. Mat 24:24 For false christs and false prophets will rise and show great signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect. Mat 24:25 See, I have told you beforehand. Mat 24:26 "Therefore if they say to you, 'Look, He is in the desert!' do not go out; or 'Look, He is in the inner rooms!' do not believe it. Mat 24:27 For as the lightning comes from the east and flashes to the west, so also will the coming of the Son of Man be. Mat 24:28 For wherever the carcass is, there the eagles will be gathered together. The highlighted verse is the point of no return so to speak. Everything before that will be signs worth noticing to be sure, but we cannot be assured that the end has begun until this act happens. Earthquakes, wars and rumors of wars, etc., are not exactly subjective, but are subject to human misconceptions. I personally, and this is just my own opinion, think that these things will be happening at an rate that is so far above anything on historical record by the time that the abomination arrives that that it will be impossible to ignore. The current level of such things still waxes and wanes on a historical scale. The one singular event that will be undeniable would be the abomination. I wouldn't go so far as to say that I'd never venture into conjecture myself given the proper set of circumstances, but I don't think i will ever be assured in my own mind unless I see that one event occur.
  10. Thread locked due to getting personal by the OP.
  11. @Daniel 11:36 removed from topic for this statement.
  12. Steve_S

    The Next Event

    I agree. There are a myriad of problems with such a theory. Another one: Zec 12:7 "The LORD will save the tents of Judah first, so that the glory of the house of David and the glory of the inhabitants of Jerusalem shall not become greater than that of Judah. Zec 12:8 In that day the LORD will defend the inhabitants of Jerusalem; the one who is feeble among them in that day shall be like David, and the house of David shall be like God, like the Angel of the LORD before them. Zec 12:9 It shall be in that day that I will seek to destroy all the nations that come against Jerusalem. Contextually speaking, this happens before Christ's return, when: Zec 12:10 "And I will pour on the house of David and on the inhabitants of Jerusalem the Spirit of grace and supplication; then they will look on Me whom they pierced. Yes, they will mourn for Him as one mourns for his only son, and grieve for Him as one grieves for a firstborn. Zec 12:11 In that day there shall be a great mourning in Jerusalem, like the mourning at Hadad Rimmon in the plain of Megiddo. Zec 12:12 And the land shall mourn, every family by itself: the family of the house of David by itself, and their wives by themselves; the family of the house of Nathan by itself, and their wives by themselves; Zec 12:13 the family of the house of Levi by itself, and their wives by themselves; the family of Shimei by itself, and their wives by themselves; Zec 12:14 all the families that remain, every family by itself, and their wives by themselves. In 70 AD the roman military sacked Jerusalem, for the most part killed or sold its inhabitants into slavery, and burned down the temple along with other parts of the city. The clear indication here is that these events must be post Messianic. This removes any argument that this could've been any military victory prior to Christ. As you mentioned with regard to Revelation as well, there are significant problems. Rev 18:21 Then a mighty angel took up a stone like a great millstone and threw it into the sea, saying, "Thus with violence the great city Babylon shall be thrown down, and shall not be found anymore. Rev 18:22 The sound of harpists, musicians, flutists, and trumpeters shall not be heard in you anymore. No craftsman of any craft shall be found in you anymore, and the sound of a millstone shall not be heard in you anymore. Rev 18:23 The light of a lamp shall not shine in you anymore, and the voice of bridegroom and bride shall not be heard in you anymore. For your merchants were the great men of the earth, for by your sorcery all the nations were deceived. Continuing into the next chapter in Zechariah, which is a continuance of the prophecy from Zechariah 12: Zec 13:1 "In that day a fountain shall be opened for the house of David and for the inhabitants of Jerusalem, for sin and for uncleanness. Zec 13:2 "It shall be in that day," says the LORD of hosts, "that I will cut off the names of the idols from the land, and they shall no longer be remembered. I will also cause the prophets and the unclean spirit to depart from the land. If Jerusalem is destroyed and shall not be found anymore, how is any of this going on? Zec 14:16 And it shall come to pass that everyone who is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall go up from year to year to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, and to keep the Feast of Tabernacles. Zec 14:17 And it shall be that whichever of the families of the earth do not come up to Jerusalem to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, on them there will be no rain. Zec 14:18 If the family of Egypt will not come up and enter in, they shall have no rain; they shall receive the plague with which the LORD strikes the nations who do not come up to keep the Feast of Tabernacles. I see no reasonable way that one could interchange Jerusalem with mystery Babylon just based on a reasonably plain reading of even some of texts that obviously point to worship from Jerusalem in the millennium and so forth. As to the question of whether or not it is New York or some such. I would agree that New York certainly mostly fits the bill currently, though i suspect that probably won't be the case when the events happen. That is just conjecture on my part, though.
  13. I basically cleaned this thread all the way out. Please discuss this civilly. By civilly, I mean without accusing anyone else of being unsaved because they believe a different eschatology than you do, without making accusations of heresy, etc.
  14. Steve_S

    Defense of the Pre Trib Rapture

    I just cleaned this thread out. Please keep it civil.
  15. Steve_S

    Why I Am A Christian Zionist

    Aranchogeek removed from thread for the above statements.