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Everything posted by Steve_S

  1. You should be able to respond in most forums now :).
  2. Locked for review, getting a bit personal.
  3. Poster removed from thread.
  4. Poster removed from thread.
  5. I agree, which was basically my point. Assigning intentions to other based on what you hope is the best outcome (in this case that being that they are simply there to steal things and leave) is a pretty dangerous game to play.
  6. It doesn't affect my sleep one way or another. In the prophecy you quoted it literally mentions the king of babylon two times as the executor of God's punishment. This prophecy was perfectly accurate, as are all prophecies given by God, and was directly fulfilled in the years leading up to and then culminating in 587 B.C. when Nebuchadnezzar's armies razed Jerusalem.
  7. The context obviously changed to the ammonites in verse 28. The remainder of the prophecy is very obviously regarding the (then soon to be) destruction of Jerusalem by the babylonians.
  8. Eze 21:28 "And you, son of man, prophesy and say, 'Thus says the Lord GOD concerning the Ammonites and concerning their reproach,' and say: 'A sword, a sword is drawn, Polished for slaughter, For consuming, for flashing— Eze 21:29 While they see false visions for you, While they divine a lie to you, To bring you on the necks of the wicked, the slain Whose day has come, Whose iniquity shall end. Eze 21:30 'Return it to its sheath. I will judge you In the place where you were created, In the land of your nativity. Eze 21:31 I will pour out My indignation on you; I will blow against you with the fire of My wrath, And deliver you into the hands of brutal men who are skillful to destroy. Eze 21:32 You shall be fuel for the fire; Your blood shall be in the midst of the land. You shall not be remembered, For I the LORD have spoken.' "
  9. An excellent idea :). This underlying Greek word here for "worships" or "worship" (προσκυνέω - probably best transliterated proskyneo or something along those lines) is actually used in multiple tenses throughout the scriptures. What tense specifically? There is no specific tense attached to proskyneo to my knowledge. As noted above, it is used, unmodified, in more than once tense and for the purposes of this short word study... Past - Matthew 2:11, 8:2, 9:18, 14:33, 18:26, etc... In fact, it is used in the past tense as often or more often than it is used in the present tense. The problem really isn't with the word or the translation of it. The texts says what it says. I'm a firm believer that one can get a general understanding of the the message a passage is trying to get across by simply reading the passage. This passage says folks that worship the beast and receive his mark will not be going to heaven. This is not a theological statement, it is a prophetic statement. There is no theological argument here, only a one of prophecy. As far as I'm concerned, whether or not one can be saved after taking the mark is a meaningless hypothetical, because we know for an absolute fact that none will. Here's another prophecy: 2Th 2:9 The coming of the lawless one is according to the working of Satan, with all power, signs, and lying wonders, 2Th 2:10 and with all unrighteous deception among those who perish, because they did not receive the love of the truth, that they might be saved. 2Th 2:11 And for this reason God will send them strong delusion, that they should believe the lie, 2Th 2:12 that they all may be condemned who did not believe the truth but had pleasure in unrighteousness. These two things are quite clearly connected. What's the lie? The claim of the man of sin to be God (2:4). Who gets sent strong delusion? Those who did not receive the love of the truth. What happens to them? They are condemned for it. So here's the real question. Will those who have been sent a "strong delusion" directly from God Himself (as a result of their rejection of His truth) repent and turn towards Him? That would be quite a strong willed person!
  10. The good news is that we have a means by which to be reconciled to God and it doesn't matter who you are, where you come from, what you've done, or what you've been through. The very reason Jesus died and was resurrected is so that we would have an avenue of reconciliation to God. God is all about restoration and the offer from Him is there. Joh 3:16 For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life. Joh 3:17 For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved. Joh 3:18 "He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. Rom 10:9 that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. Rom 10:10 For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
  11. Rev 14:9 Then a third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, ", If anyone worships the beast and his image, and receives his mark on his forehead or on his hand Rev 14:10 he himself shall also drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out full strength into the cup of His indignation. He shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels and in the presence of the Lamb. Rev 14:11 And the smoke of their torment ascends forever and ever; and they have no rest day or night, who worship the beast and his image, and whoever receives the mark of his name." This seems to be a fairly straightforward scripture. If one receives the mark of beast, they go to eternal torment. There seems to be absolutely no way around that. We are told explicitly that anyone who worships the beast will end up in this situation. It is prudent to heed such warnings in my view.
  12. Killing in and of itself is not a sin. Murder is definitively a sin. There is a biblical distinction between the two going back to the torah. Even in the instance of centurions. They were never told to leave the military or not participate in battle, just not to mistreat others or misuse their authority.
  13. I'm not sure one can make an argument that lethal weapons are biblically banned. Even the disciples had swords among them and Jesus did not rebuke them for having them either, indeed He asked specifically about them and seemed to want to ensure that they possessed them (though He did rebuke peter for using it to chop off someone's ear). In antiquity swords were not weapons used for hunting or for kitchen cutlery. It was probably a gladius, the roman short sword, and its sole purpose was to inflict damage on other humans. I'm not promoting the idea that Christians go around armed to the teeth, just stating that there is new testament mention of being armed for defense. Luk 22:36 Then He said to them, "But now, he who has a money bag, let him take it, and likewise a knapsack; and he who has no sword, let him sell his garment and buy one. Luk 22:37 For I say to you that this which is written must still be accomplished in Me: 'AND HE WAS NUMBERED WITH THE TRANSGRESSORS.' For the things concerning Me have an end." Luk 22:38 So they said, "Lord, look, here are two swords." And He said to them, "It is enough." Lest we make the assumption that Christ was speaking metaphorically about purchasing a sword, the disciples produced two physical swords and He told them that would do. Even in the instance of Peter, the primary rebuke was not that Peter used it, but that He used it to attempt to prevent Christ's purpose (a purpose which in that moment peter did not understand). Joh 18:10 Then Simon Peter, having a sword, drew it and struck the high priest's servant, and cut off his right ear. The servant's name was Malchus. Joh 18:11 So Jesus said to Peter, "Put your sword into the sheath. Shall I not drink the cup which My Father has given Me?" Mat 26:51 And suddenly, one of those who were with Jesus stretched out his hand and drew his sword, struck the servant of the high priest, and cut off his ear. Mat 26:52 But Jesus said to him, "Put your sword in its place, for all who take the sword will perish by the sword. Mat 26:53 Or do you think that I cannot now pray to My Father, and He will provide Me with more than twelve legions of angels? Mat 26:54 How then could the Scriptures be fulfilled, that it must happen thus?"
  14. I'm pretty sure a normal person (who doesn't have extensive military or law enforcement training and experience) put into a pressure situation such as that can't process information fast enough mentally to "try not to kill" or "not try to kill" someone. Life is not television - these things are usually over in seconds. In high stress situations with adrenaline pumping and so forth, normal people usually aim for the largest and easiest part of a person to hit, the torso, and that generally happens to be where most of the major organs reside.
  15. I was speaking in context of the verses George posted. What I was basically asking is how do you make a determination of the intent of someone else who is invading your home in the middle of the night?
  16. The issue is in the middle of the night if you're awoken by someone breaking into your house, how exactly do you determine what their intentions are?
  17. This doesn't at all abrogate the fact that in multiple instances a physical return of Christ is specified and indeed a new physical kingdom. Firstly, using the YLT in this instance doesn't at all negate the idea that Jesus will physically come with the clouds. Rev 1:7 Lo, he doth come with the clouds, and see him shall every eye, even those who did pierce him, and wail because of him shall all the tribes of the land. Yes! Amen! Rev 1:7 Behold, He is coming with clouds, and every eye will see Him, even they who pierced Him. And all the tribes of the earth will mourn because of Him. Even so, Amen. This is a literal statement. What scholars specifically?
  18. I'm not sure what you mean by "nothing not to believe it" here, could you elucidate on that please? There are a multitude of scriptures that are incredibly counter to this specific theology. I think it's fine to start with just one, though, to keep things manageable in length. Rev 1:7 Behold, He is coming with clouds, and every eye will see Him, even they who pierced Him. And all the tribes of the earth will mourn because of Him. Even so, Amen. Rev 1:8 "I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End," says the Lord, "who is and who was and who is to come, the Almighty." How is such a thing possible if the there is no future physical kingdom?
  19. The problem with the underlined statement is that the premise is incorrect. There was an observable kingdom in the first century, it just wasn't the expected observable kingdom and even if it were, it wouldn't have mattered. Luk 16:30 And he said, 'No, father Abraham; but if one goes to them from the dead, they will repent.' Luk 16:31 But he said to him, 'If they do not hear Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded though one rise from the dead.' " A great many people who watched Christ perform miracles, including raising people from the dead, did not believe. Not only, but even in spite of the fact that Jesus Himself rose from the dead, they did not believe. Mat 28:11 Now while they were going, behold, some of the guard came into the city and reported to the chief priests all the things that had happened. Mat 28:12 When they had assembled with the elders and consulted together, they gave a large sum of money to the soldiers, Mat 28:13 saying, "Tell them, 'His disciples came at night and stole Him away while we slept.' Mat 28:14 And if this comes to the governor's ears, we will appease him and make you secure." Mat 28:15 So they took the money and did as they were instructed; and this saying is commonly reported among the Jews until this day. The Sanhedrin was well aware that Christ had been resurrected, just as He'd said He would be. What was their response? Faith? No. Their response was to attempt a cover up. Jesus performed a great many signs (including raising a man who had been dead four days - to which the answer of the leadership in Jerusalem was a plot to kill Lazarus himself). Jesus fulfilled hundreds of prophecies. The multitude in Jerusalem observed the kingdom themselves. Joh 12:12 The next day a great multitude that had come to the feast, when they heard that Jesus was coming to Jerusalem, Joh 12:13 took branches of palm trees and went out to meet Him, and cried out: "Hosanna! 'BLESSED IS HE WHO COMES IN THE NAME OF THE LORD!' The King of Israel!" Not only did they observe it, they declared it. A few days later, their response was to call for His crucifixion. If the problem mentioned here is the idea that an observable kingdom would lead to faith of all who see it, then that premise itself is the problem.
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