Jump to content

Steve_S

Servant
  • Posts

    5,208
  • Joined

  • Last visited

Posts posted by Steve_S

  1. 1 minute ago, truth7t7 said:

    The book of Revelation is written in "Parallel" teachings of same events, not "Chronological" as dispensationalism teaches 

    Revelation 20 Satan is currently bound in the spiritual from one specific purpose,deceive the nations to battle

    Revelation 20 clearly shows future tribulation saints, however not one part of Revelation 20:1-6 teaches of a future literal kingdom on this earth,with mortal humans present

    Rev 20:4  And I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and judgment was committed to them. Then I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for their witness to Jesus and for the word of God, who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received his mark on their foreheads or on their hands. And they lived and reigned with Christ for a thousand years.

    It says those future tribulation saints enter a thousand year reign, and it also says that those saints did not worship the beast or take his mark. You say Revelation 13 is yet future, but we are currently in the millennium. No amount of exegetical gymnastics can reconcile these two things.

  2. 1 hour ago, angels4u said:

    So good to see you Steve, I hope you stay for a while?

    How is your family doing I know you were very busy with work and your family when you left, we're living  now in different days but also in exciting days, so many things are falling in place and the end of all things as know now will be over  soon and we're in the Millennium and Jesus our King will rule and reign for 1000 years ! ( And we rule and reign with Him :)

    What a time that will be :emot-heartbeat:

    I think I'll be around for a while, just not as much as I used to be. The family is doing great, thanks for asking!

    We are definitely living in different times. Amen, it will be a great time!

    • Loved it! 1
  3. 1 hour ago, Alive said:

    As I said, I am leaning toward an early writing and that before 70AD. There is much scholarly evidence to indicate this, both internal and external evidence.

    I suggest a reading of Gentry's 'Before the Fall of Jerusalem' with Bible open. You may not agree with his conclusion, but I guarantee you will learn much and re-evaluate some things.

    I'm not interested in reading it. I understand the various preterist positions. My question was whether or not all of the events from Revelation 20:1-4 have already occurred. Also, if they have, then when, specifically?

  4. 2 minutes ago, Alive said:

    Rev. 20:2 (NAS20S) And he took hold of the dragon, the serpent of old, who is the devil and Satan, and bound him for a thousand years;

    The Lord is doing great works bringing in a harvest in these places like China and Iran.

    The Gospel is victorious. I like Heiser's translation that reads "and the gates of hell cannot 'withstand' the Church". Gates are a defensive mechanism, so it fits.

    The Great Commission is an ongoing reality.

    As I have said here a few times, I am more and more convinced of the early penning of Rev. If that is so, then much is looked at differently.

    In the final analysis, God is sovereign and the enemy has no more power than he is allowed. He is nothing but a created being who rebelled--he is weak and sin. He is weak in that he is limited by his maker--our God. He cannot touch a son of God unless given permission and that will only result in a Rom. 8:28 reality.

    So, whether Rev 20.2 is applicable or not (which I think is)--he is bound.

    So, just to be clear, you believe Revelation was written prior to when, 70 AD?

    Also, just a follow up, since you quoted Revelation 20:2. We should look at the entire passage.

     

    Rev 20:1  Then I saw an angel coming down from heaven, having the key to the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand. 
    Rev 20:2  He laid hold of the dragon, that serpent of old, who is the Devil and Satan, and bound him for a thousand years; 
    Rev 20:3  and he cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal on him, so that he should deceive the nations no more till the thousand years were finished. But after these things he must be released for a little while. 
    Rev 20:4  And I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and judgment was committed to them. Then I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for their witness to Jesus and for the word of God, who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received his mark on their foreheads or on their hands. And they lived and reigned with Christ for a thousand years.

     

    Has this all occurred?

  5. 21 hours ago, Alive said:

    He is bound so as not to be able to deceive the Nations so the Gospel is preached unfettered. This does not mean he is bound so that he is entirely out of the picture.

    I am waiting for a shout and a final restoration of all things.

    I would be interested in a scriptural defense of this position. As it stands, virtually every government of every nation that I know of are in varying states of deception. Spreading the gospel is illegal to one degree or another in countries that account for well over half of the world's population. Over the past 2000 years, the unfettered spread of the gospel is an absolute aberration that happens only on rare occasions.

    When did the binding occur?

    • This is Worthy 1
  6. 11 hours ago, Dennis1209 said:

    Earthquake activity and severity is at a all time historic high [see USGS link below]. Locust swarms and famine this century is at a all time high [notice the current one taking place, Israel is protected]. Far more severe hurricanes, tornado's, tsunamis, droughts, mud slides, etc. Even the Continent of Australia about perished in fire because of drought. Yes, all is significantly higher than historic norms [a convergence] in frequency and intensity if you look at the historic record.

    The dust bowl in the united states as far as drought is one of the worst droughts in recorded history on earth notwithstanding those mentioned in the scriptures (note I said recorded history, there have been very likely many bad unrecorded droughts) and it was pre-Israel. It was also concurrent with economic collapse and massive, worldwide famine. Our economic situation has not approached great depression levels, certainly not world wide, since the great depression. This is an objective, observable fact.

    This is from the article that you posted above on earthquakes:

    The ComCat earthquake catalog contains an increasing number of earthquakes in recent years not because there are more earthquakes, but because there are more seismic instruments and they are able to record more earthquakes.

    Also, from your article:

    In the past 44 years, from 1973 through 2017, our records show that we have exceeded the long-term average number of major earthquakes only 11 times, in 1976, 1990, 1995, 1999, 2007, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2013, 2015, and 2016.

     

    In other years the total was well below the 16 per year expected based on the long-term average:  1989 only saw 6, while 1988 saw only 7 major earthquakes.

    This article basically proves my point. There are more recorded earthquakes, but there are more seismographs.

    As far as violent earthquakes, the averages, over time, bear out the same as they did before. According to your article, the biggest year over that 44 year period had 24 with a magnitude of 7 or greater, the smallest year had 6. That's the range... 8 < average < 10. There's no correlation here with stronger earthquakes.

    Again, I don't disagree with you that there is a convergence, I just think it is not as blatant. I expect when it gets blatant it will be undeniable. We will not have to post articles from the USGS because instead of there being a few more than normal, there will be 50 more than normal with many of them wrecking major cities, etc. We are not seeing that right now.

    • Thumbs Up 1
  7. On 3/19/2020 at 10:50 AM, Dennis1209 said:

    The fig tree [Israel] became a nation in 'one day' by UN resolution; and was very tender then, and rapidly put on leaves. Therefore, we know summer [the Rapture] is very close. "This generation shall not pass", I believe means the generation that witnesses Israel become a nation once again after the 2,000 year diaspora. So, how long is a biblical generation, 30 - 40 - 50 - 100 - 120 years, or the last person alive in that generation???

    It may mean this, but nationhood, biblically speaking, does not always involve a national government, etc.:

    Gen 46:3  So He said, "I am God, the God of your father; do not fear to go down to Egypt, for I will make of you a great nation there.

    Israel was made a great nation while in Egypt. They were brought into the land already, after achieving nationhood. By this standard, Israel has been a scattered nation of people.

    In the parable of the fig tree:

    Mar 13:28  "Now learn this parable from the fig tree: When its branch has already become tender, and puts forth leaves, you know that summer is near. 
    Mar 13:29  So you also, when you see these things happening, know that it is near—at the doors! 
    Mar 13:30  Assuredly, I say to you, this generation will by no means pass away till all these things take place. 
    Mar 13:31  Heaven and earth will pass away, but My words will by no means pass away. 

    I'm very reticent to build direct doctrine off of parables such as this (unless their meaning is explicitly explained in the text).

    It is fairly obvious what Jesus means here, but He is nonspecific. Nothing in the bible is there by accident and nothing is left out by accident. This is so general that it could mean literally from the first return from the diaspora, which started, functionally, in the late 19th and early 20th century. It could also mean what you believe, from the mid 50s, when Israel formed as a nation.

    I'm not convinced of either of those scenarios though, but I think the mid 50s date that you hold to probably has some merit. The main reason I say this is because the Jews do not control the biblical borders of canaan, nor have they established a direct presence on the temple mount. If you pushed me to pick a date in the past, I would probably say 1967 when they gained total control of Jerusalem and physical possession of the temple mount as more likely than the mid to late 50s. The nation from that point forward, as far as it's borders, much more resembles what is described of Israel in the scriptures (the part west of the Jordan at least).

    All of this is not to say that you're wrong, just that I don't believe it's definitive, nor that we can be definitive on it. We are called to be ever watchful to be sure and I certainly think we should be. I think it's going to be progressively more obvious, however. The convergence of events seems to be happening to a degree or another, but Jesus specifically described the birth pangs:

    Mat 24:4-14  And Jesus answered and said to them: "Take heed that no one deceives you.  (5)  For many will come in My name, saying, 'I am the Christ,' and will deceive many.  (6)  And you will hear of wars and rumors of wars. See that you are not troubled; for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet.  (7)  For nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom. And there will be famines, pestilences, and earthquakes in various places.  (8)  All these are the beginning of sorrows.  (9)  "Then they will deliver you up to tribulation and kill you, and you will be hated by all nations for My name's sake.  (10)  And then many will be offended, will betray one another, and will hate one another.  (11)  Then many false prophets will rise up and deceive many.  (12)  And because lawlessness will abound, the love of many will grow cold.  (13)  But he who endures to the end shall be saved.  (14)  And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in all the world as a witness to all the nations, and then the end will come.
     

    The only one of these happening on a large scale right now is the coronavirus, which would be a pestilence. It is definitely bad. Christians are persecuted in many places as well, but not where we live in the west. There are wars and rumors of wars, but we are in a valley as opposed to at a peak as far as that goes (compared to the last century). Earthquake activity does not seem to be abnormally high or particularly abnormally violent. Famines are no different than they have been in the past 50 years (probably better in most respects, though that may change depending on how this virus goes).

    I could see a us tipping into a lot of these things easily, but that is basically always the case. There is almost always one or two of these things happening simultaneously, but this paints a picture of progressive chaos and lawlessness, combined with war, natural disasters, pestilence and persecution. This is currently not the case. I could certainly be wrong in my interpretation and in what I am seeing and I admit that.

  8. On 3/19/2020 at 10:50 AM, Dennis1209 said:

    Some other scriptural reasons I suspect the Rapture is at the door; in addition too, the 'convergence' of everything prophetic, if you care to hear them? A slow careful study of 1 Thessalonians 5: 1-11, gives us much information. There's no doubt the 'day of the Lord' is the Rapture. Christians watching will not be taken by surprise as "they" will, we will know the season and recognize the signs and times we're living.

    I'd have to disagree with this. This is Paul writing to the Thessalonian church:

    1Th 5:1  But concerning the times and the seasons, brethren, you have no need that I should write to you. 
    1Th 5:2  For you yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so comes as a thief in the night.

    This is Peter writing (probably) a letter to the church writ large or perhaps the ones specifically mentioned in 1 Peter (though this would only be speculation):

    2Pe 3:9  The Lord is not slack concerning His promise, as some count slackness, but is longsuffering toward us, not willing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance. 
    2Pe 3:10(a)  But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night,

    I direct your attention to the first portion of 2 Peter 3:10  Peter uses virtually the same phraseology here. This is not surprising, because the bible is all God breathed.

    Now, the second portion:

    2Pe 3:10(b) in which the heavens will pass away with a great noise, and the elements will melt with fervent heat; both the earth and the works that are in it will be burned up

    The Day of the Lord, particularly the Day of the Lord in the same context that Paul references it, coming as a thief in the night, is associated with the above events. This does not at all seem like the rapture.

    One can make an argument that the Day of the LORD is the rapture, but I do not believe that there is "no doubt," so to speak.

  9. 2 hours ago, Dennis1209 said:

    Along with this current pestilence at the same time, what we don't hear much about; is the widespread locust plague spreading across the middle-east and Africa. Causing more pestilence and famine to name a couple. It seems to me: The world stage is set and everything is coming to prophetic fruition with the beginnings. We even have the glimpse of the players, treaties and reasons for the Ezekiel 38: - 39: invasion sitting right on Israel's northern border!

    However God's plan manifests itself, we're very blessed to witness everything that is coming to fruition. The Lord has not given us the spirit of fear; we have an extraordinary opportunity to shine as Christ's ambassador's and promote the soon coming Kingdom. I feel in my bones the Rapture of God's children is so near...

    I have indeed heard of the locust plagues going on. Don't get me wrong, I do think we are close, it's just that I don't know how close. close could mean 5 years or 50 or 100 or 500, though I admit I would not expect it to be 100 or more, probably not 50. That's just a personal opinion, though, not a prophecy or a prognostication.

    I think there is a convergence happening as well. I think one can certainly make an argument that we're in the birth pains, but i'm not sure exactly where in them or how long the labor is going to be. My wife was in labor 32 hours with our first child, 6 with our second, and 8 with our third. I witnessed basically all of each one from start to finish, save leaving the room to grab stuff and for an epidural to be put in. It can look a whole lot like the baby is about to be born long before it is and sometimes you think it's going to take a lot longer than it does.

    My thoughts are generally that the birth pains reach a crescendo before the baby is born, so to speak. As such, I expect progressively worse things, particularly wars, pestilence, and famine. Right now, those things are happening, but to small degrees. Coronavirus could lead to some of these things to be sure (and itself is a pestilence), but they are not happening as a result of it right now.

    When I say small degrees, i mean comparatively, for wars, to say, world war II, or for famine, say the dust bowl, etc. There are objective comparisons that we can make from the last 100 years in all of these areas and nothing right now is as bad as any of the previous ones we can point to. I don't think that they would all have to be as bad or worse or all have to be as bad or worse simultaneously. In other words, if these are birth pains (and I don't disagree that they may be), it certainly seems like it's the beginning of the labor.

  10. 4 hours ago, Mystic_Pizza said:

    I'm curious, what does everyone think about this whole situation with the coronavirus, and the effect it is having not only worldwide, but also the fallout and repercussions for the economy and ...well, pretty much everything in our modern world?

    Since I don't necessarily go into deep, esoteric detail about bible prophecy and my thoughts turn more to the simpler explanation of things...I'm thinking about the fact that the antichrist will come on the scene and sort of...'fix' a world gone mad and chaotic. I want to say also, that there could be some bible verses regarding antichrist that say he will come during a time of peace, but to be honest, right now I don't recall which way it was supposed to go.

    ANYway....

    Do you believe that this entire worldwide situation could be setting the stage for antichrist to step in and 'right things', as it were? Do you think this could possibly be the vehicle that would bring him to the world stage? I ask because in my lifetime, I can't recall ever hearing of anything quite like this, or seeing things this bad- of course, there are all the prior things that have happened- WW2, and all sorts of other horrific happenings- but this seems a little different, only in the sense I suppose that it is, literally, worldwide-and because we live in a world where we 'travel to and fro' and technology has become so advanced to quote Daniel in there somewhere-I wonder if the stage is being set for what every Christian since the beginning of Christianity has been watching and waiting for. 

    Thoughts?

    I see no definitive indicators yet. Jesus gave us definitive indicators in Matthew 24, for instance (specifically the occurrence of the abomination of desolation). The thing with stuff like this, general pestilence, etc., is that it could absolutely be an image or a type of what is to come, but that what is to come could still be 5 years away... or 500. We do not have a context for this as a plague because in our lifetime it's never happened. The black death wiped out half of europe though, for instance. On a historical timeline there are plagues that have happened that really overshadow this one (at least the manifestation of the virus thus far).

    The main difference is that now economies are *artificially* shutting down in an attempt to contain the virus. We weren't capable of doing that before because agrarian economies in non-democratic societies functioned far differently and most plagues have occurred under those conditions. Also, there was a general lack of understanding about how disease spread. 50+ years ago, I think the virus would've spread through populations the way viruses do and economies would've collapsed on the back of it. Economies are not collapsing so much now as they are being paused. This has basically never been attempted and it is certainly going to result in pain, but the fundamental difference is that there is an understanding that it is happening as it is happening rather than what usually happens, which is that it's been happening for six months before almost anyone realizes it. I don't know how significant that is, but it is worth noting.

    The only real specific prophecy (to my limited knowledge) this could be fulfilling (or perhaps beginning to fulfill would be a better term) is the third and fourth seal, but the four seals combined result in a 25 percent reduction in global population. This does not seem to be close to that. The spanish flu pandemic, combined with world war I, and the famine that accompanies both pestilence and war, all occurring simultaneously in early industrial societies, in a vacuum, followed a lot closer to what you'd see in Revelation 6 (and I think we would all agree those were not the seals opening). I would expect it to at least be as bad as 1918 (but really a lot worse) before I became concerned that actual apocalyptic prophecy was starting to play out. Having said that, and as I noted above, this could certainly be a glimpse or the equivalent of a partially exposed negative of what is to come one day (and I do personally believe sooner rather than later).

×
×
  • Create New...