seeking truth

I hear what you are saying in regard to fighting this. However, to me this seems to be part of a pattern of a blatant disregard for our liberties. Even though I am Canadian, not American, it seems like everywhere we turn in our shared culture/society and our so called 'free democracies' there is this push by government to restrict our ability to live our lives unmolested by government intrusion. It seems that they want to micromanage every facet of our lives......... and this idea of wanting keys to businesses and some private residents just serves to underscore a broader agenda in this regard....... imho. Like I said, this ecnroachment on our freedoms always seems to come under the guise of keeping us safer. So.......... is it the responsibilty of a government to protect us from the 'risk' of life?

[edit to thread title] should be " City demands keys to businesses and some rental properties" ( I copied title from blog and meant to edit it before posting) "Ordinance #2740( An unfunded city-wide mandate) was passed with a resounding 6 to 1 vote, and it allows for the citizens of Cedar Falls to forcefully give the government keys to their commercial properties through universal 'lock boxes'. The intent of the program is to provide increased safety and protection to personal, private property which include businesses... and some rental houses-- ......" Erosion of our freedoms and liberty always comes under the guise of 'keeping us safe'.

All is forgiven LadyC. I understand now where you are coming from. I may be a bit quick to go on the defensive when it comes to the homeless because so often they are treated like subhuman garbage, as I'm sure you know. It tends to get my dander up. When I lived in the city I worked with prostitutes, trying to get them off the streets. This is when I first started to come into direct contact with the homeless. There were certain areas that they considered their turf and initially a few of them didn't appreciate my presence there. I was spit at, cursed at and threatened with violence on one occasion. However, showing no fear and persisting in kindness toward them went a long way in breaking down their wall. Many of the homeless that I got to know are native indian and some of them are very bitter toward white people, cause in Canada we haven't always treated them well. Some of the older ones were ripped away from their families as children and forced to live in Catholic boarding schools where they were physically and sexually abused. As a result they are not very receptive to Christ because they associate Christianity as the white man's religion that caused them so much suffering. As a Christian you just want to help and save everyone and because there are so many lost souls it can really weigh heavy on your heart. Thankfully we can find comfort in knowing that the Lord is in control and all things work toward His purpose. Praise and Glory to our Merciful Lord.

Thank you for accepting my apology. Sometimes a little slice of humble pie can open my ears a bit and enable me to hear more of what the other person is saying instead of just focusing on my own argument. Just to let you know, I spent some time yesterday watching videos of the homeless in Vegas, so I saw the washes that you are speaking of. It also gave me a much better understanding of how many homeless there are in Vegas. A lot! It truly is heartbreaking. When I lived in the city, we didn't have a homeless population that was even near that. I guess from my own experience years ago of not having a home or any money and being in the city, where can you go to enjoy some peace and tranquility and to enjoy God's natural beauty, especially when you are surrounded by a concrete jungle? A park of course. It just seems a shame to deprive people of that, especially when they have nothing. However, I do have a better understanding of where you are coming from. So thank you again for accepting my apology and thank you for all that you do to further the Lord's kingdom. May He bless you richly LadyC. Love in His Name, carolyn

Yes. Thank you for sharing that. I was homeless at one time. However, I was fortunate enough that I was not on the streets. I had temporary shelter but I felt that my presence there was a burden. It really was a most horrible feeling. I felt so completely lost and alone. It was the only time in my life that I seriously considered suicide. I was not a Christian at the time. I tried to spend as much time as I could away from the house, so they wouldn't even know I was there kinda thing. I spent my days looking for work and when I wanted to find some peace and tranquilty, I would go to the park. It was so nice to sit on the grass in the shade of a tree, listening to the birds sing, watching the clouds and such. It made me feel closer to God, even though I didn't know Christ at the time. I spent a lot of time there, crying and praying, and there was a solace I found in it's natural beauty. Much less depressing than hanging out in a back alley behind a dumpster or under a bridge.

Please explain "Food Security." The Lord has said this; Mr 14:7 For you have the poor with you always, and whenever you will you may do them good: but me you have not always. Your Chief concern is Christ. Then the Lord says that "Y-O-U" can do good to them whenever you wish. Please expound on the concept of the Lord commanding you to give to Caesar so that he can feed the poor. Use Scripture. Peace, Dave Hello Matthitjah. I think you may have misunderstood what I meant. When I said food security, I meant it more in the context of knowing that if you are hungry, you can simply walk to your fridge or cupboard and have something to eat. You know the food is there. That you don't have to stress out or worry about where your next meal is coming from. I didn't mean it at all in the context of giving unto Caesar so that he can feed the poor. My apologies if I wasn't more clear. God Bless

LadyC, I want to apologize to you. I am sincerely sorry for anything I said that was hurtful to you. I wasn't expecting this topic to turn into a debate and I let myself get carried away with my emotions and my pride. I am very, very sorry. Anything I said that called into question the work that you do for the homeless or your motives was wrong of me. Again, I am sorry. I've taken a day to step back and to try to get my emotions in check. I've also reread things that we have said here and would like to make an attempt to clarify a few things, hopefully applying better communication skills than I have shown so far. You are right that it is the obligation of the church to help the needy. Absolutely right. This is the ideal situation, to draw them to Christ, to minister to their physical needs and more importantly to their spiritual needs. But let us just consider for a moment that Jesus did not call people to come into a specific building or designated area in order for Him to minister to them, feed them or heal them. He took the Gospel to them, to the places where they lived or gathered. As we know, His church is not a building made with hands. His harvest is not limited to certain specified areas. I think a lot of people who feed the homeless in the parks do so simply because that is where many homeless tend to be. Now, if some of the homeless are engaging in criminal activities in the park, then yes, those individuals should be dealt with accordingly. Just as anyone who commits crimes in the park should be dealt with. But for those who are not engaging in criminal activities, then I think they should be allowed to hang out there and eat there like anybody else. To me, that seems more fair and balanced. You may not agree, but that is just my opinion. Now, as far as the responsibility of the government is concerned. I should clarify that I do not think it is the governments obligation to fix everyones problems. I am not a fan of big government that gets into everyones personal business. Which is why I don't think the government should be in the business of restricting or regulating an individuals personal effort to give charity. However, at the same token, I have no problem with the government offering a helping hand and spending money to help people get on their feet. Not because I think it is their obligation, but more so because I would much rather see tax dollars spent doing good and helping to lift up the poor than being wasted on so many other things. But again, that is just my personal opinion. These ordinances cause me to reflect on what Christ would have done if He were told that He cannot feed people in certain areas, or that He cannot feed more than a specified amount of people, or that He cannot feed anyone without preparing His food in a certified kitchen. I am hoping that this gives a more tempered understanding of where I am coming from and without me engaging in emotional and immature little snipes. If we cannot agree, that doesn't mean we have to be angry with each other for it. I am hoping we can repectfully agree to disagree. I am also hoping that you can forgive me for any personal offence toward you that I may have caused. Sincerely in the Blessed Name of Jesus our Lord, ST

Well, I am a military wife and I don't like the idea of my husband and friends having to fight a war based on lies........but that is a subject for it's own thread. A large percentage of homeless people are veterans and 70% of the homeless vets are addicts. There is a chance that the angry homeless guy that you honked at was a vet. Keep supporting your troops! Scripture repeatedly calls on the leaders of Israel to help the needy. Come on now LadyC......as a Christian, what has more value to you........your precious park........or the lost, hungry souls that are hanging out there?

Have you ever been homeless? So............you don't think it is the governments job to help the homeless...... but you think it is their job to restrict and/or regulate how others help them? Umm ok. If the gov wants to push them out of the parks and other areas, then what are they offering up as an alternative? Where should they go then? How does this address the underlying causes of homelessness? Feeding them is not a cure for homelessness either, and I never said it was. However, they are still human beings and they still need to eat. Not having food security will cause people to steal, beg, and resort to other desperate measures. What the 'heck' do I propose? Is this a heartfelt, Christian way to ask a question? Well, first off these people need Christ to release them from their bondage, and yes, that is the job of ministry. Secondly, these people do have physical needs as well and the trillions of dollars given to criminal bankers and spent on war that is causing people in foriegn lands to become homeless also, could be better spent addressing the root causes of poverty and homelessness at home. Especially given that it is such a scourge on society as you have described. Money that could be better spent providing people with access to the help that they need to deal with their substance abuse, mental illness or economic insecurities and help them get on their feet. Perhaps it is not your intent to sound angry and bitter toward the homeless, but it does kinda come across that way. 2Cr 9:7 Every man according as he purposeth in his heart, so let him give; not grudgingly, or of necessity: for God loveth a cheerful giver. And please, don't feel obligated to prove your love for the homeless by telling us all you do for them. That is between you and the Lord. Mat 6:3 But when thou doest alms, let not thy left hand know what thy right hand doeth: 4 That thine alms may be in secret: and thy Father which seeth in secret himself shall reward thee openly.

Hello LadyC. Thank you for sharing your experiences with us. I'm guessing the large number of homeless in your area has a lot to do with the warm climate and the strong tourist industry there. I do not deny the problems with some of the homeless that you have described and indeed this is a very sad reality of homelessness. However I don't see how restricting peoples ability to feed them is a solution to the problem. You are so right to say that the needs are many and the workers are few. I also think of the trillions of dollars spent on war and banker bailouts while the number of poor and homeless increases..........it is distressing. May the Lord bless you and your outreach to the homeless.

Do you have a source of info for this? Because from everything that I have read on the subject, I have never heard this as the official reason for these restrictions. It is almost always because "visible homelessness hurts tourism and local businesses".

A Place at the Table Prohibitions on Sharing Food with People Experiencing Homelessness Th National Law Center on Homelessness and Poverty and the National Coalition for the Homeless jointly present A Place at the Table: Prohibitions on Sharing Food with People Experiencing Homelessness. This report focuses on cities that have created ordinances, policies and tactics to limit groups from sharing food with homeless people. Alternative solutions and programs to penalizing food sharing activities are highlighted in the report. This is an update to 2007's Feeding Intolerance report. http://www.nlchp.org/view_report.cfm?id=338

Zoning restrictions limit feeding the homeless http://www.onenewsnow.com/Culture/Default.aspx?id=1082024 Government bodies are making it difficult for volunteers to provide for the needs of the homeless at public sites or their own facilities, such as churches. A study done by the National Law Center on Homelessness and Poverty (NLCHP) confirms the results of a 2007 study, but civil rights director Tulin Ozdeger tells OneNewsNow that cities are continuing to pass restrictions. Those range "from limiting the number of people who can be served at a given time, to using zoning laws to prevent local churches from serving food out of their facilities, to just flat-out prohibitions on sharing food in certain locations," she reports. She feels that people seem to be telling local governments to send the homeless to some neighborhood other than their own. "The problem has been that once provision of services is proposed in a given area or is happening in a given area, a lot of times there'll be opposition from neighborhood residents or businesses that it shouldn't be happening there," Ozdeger explains. "But if we're going to address the problem of homelessness, services have to be provided somewhere for folks." And that, she argues, turns the issue from a social one into a political one. The NLCHP director adds that the report also argues that governments should not be penalizing groups that want to help, but it should actually see them as a resource and collaborate with them to provide for the homeless.

Illegal to give money to beggars? Unbelievable. Eze 16:49 Behold, this was the iniquity of thy sister Sodom, pride, fulness of bread, and abundance of idleness was in her and in her daughters, neither did she strengthen the hand of the poor and needy.

So to this person thinks letting someone starve is better than letting them take the slight risk of getting food poisoning? No it's more likely they think that the homeless are a blight on their "pretty" city and think that by letting people feed them it keeps them around. This stuff makes me sick. Yes. there are other articles I recall reading where laws are being passed where you cannot feed homeless in certain areas of the city, areas that are central to tourism. Apparently it causes homeless people to congregate there and this 'looks bad' to visitors. Also, if you think about it....if the government is saying we cannot feed homeless with food prepared in our uncertified home kitchens........how is this really any different from having someone over to your house for dinner, serving them a meal prepared in the same kitchen? Seriously. What right should the government have to tell us where, when , how and to whom we can give charity ? Lord have Mercy.

City puts a stop to homeless outreach Couple must have proper permit to continue feeding dozens each day Read more: http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/metropolitan/7381016.html#ixzz1O9NR9rjP "Anyone serving food for public consumption, whether for the homeless or for sale, must have a permit, said Kathy Barton, a spokeswoman for the Health and Human Services Department. To get that permit, the food must be prepared in a certified kitchen with a certified food manager. The regulations are all the more essential in the case of the homeless, Barton said, because "poor people are the most vulnerable to foodborne illness and also are the least likely to have access to health care." So......I guess it's better for them to eat out of a dumpster??? In a so called 'free society', what right should the government have to regulate how people can share food? Do we need government permission before we can share food made in our own "uncertified" kitchen without the oversight of a "certified food manager"??

Over the past year or so I've been noticing that laws are being passed that are essentially criminalizing aid to the homeless. So, I thought to start a thread on this subject, to provide an archive and to open the subject for consideration and discussion amongst fellow brethren. This is a most recent article I have come across, but there are more..... Three arrested, accused of illegally feeding homeless: http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/local/crime/os-homeless-feedings-arrests-20110601,0,7226362.story

Aborted fetal tissue is also used in some cosmetic products...... http://www.google.ca/#hl=en&q=aborted+fetal+tissue+in+cosmetics&oq=aborted+fetal+tissue+in+cosmetics&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&gs_sm=s&gs_upl=46181l54418l0l19l18l1l9l9l0l280l1537l0.4.4&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.&fp=fe3d287afdd6dfd2&biw=1280&bih=695 .....as well as vaccines. http://www.google.ca/#hl=en&q=aborted+fetal+tissue+in+vaccines&oq=aborted+fetal+tissue+in+&aq=0&aqi=g3g-j1&aql=&gs_sm=c&gs_upl=80230l81677l0l9l9l0l0l0l1l186l1293l0.9&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.&fp=fe3d287afdd6dfd2&biw=1280&bih=695