Fearfully1derfullyMade

Hi, I don't think it's so much a shift of the male female roles that's causing the increase of children being born out of wedlock. It's more of a thing of not being bound to the law legally. In this type thinking there comes no responsibility in the relationship while living together outside of marriage. If one wants to leave the relationship there are no ties no divorce process, no alimony. etc., just pack up and go. Those living in fornication have no "till death do us part" mentality or commitment in the relationship. The thing is about those who are living in fornication outside of marriage have the samethings taking place that goes on inside of lawful marriage and one of those things are childbirth hence children being born out of wedlock. The twisted thinking is if I get a marriage liscense get married committing yourself to one person for life legally coming up under the law of the land then they will somehow lose their independence or freedom but it's just the opposite. The law protects those who are living within a marriage from any abuse of anykind that might take place. But if they don't get married then they can do as they please without any repercusion by law they are not legally bound if they destroy the persons life their in fornication with. Those in fornication having sex outside of marriage I personally believe is the leading cause of children being born out of wedlock rather than the shift of the male and female roles. In addition to what you said, I think that a lot of people, both Christians and Non-Christians alike are scared of marriage due to the significant increase of divorce. Now, I'm happily single for the moment, but even dating has changed drastically. I'm not male bashing or anything, but some men just aren't maning up imo. Is chivalry dead? What happened to opening doors for a lady, paying for dates( which imo is worth meeting halfway) for if he's a good man. But, nowadays,some men are looking for someone to be their mother instead of their girlfriend/spouse. I understand that any type of relationship should be an equal partnership, but there should be a certain amount of responsibilty for all parties involved. However, when it comes to male/female relationships, it seems like some Christians are following society instead of following God. Yes, I know that we are human and that no one is perfect or exempt from sin, but in this day and age we all definitely need the incorruptible power of God through the Holy Spirit and the finished work Christ has already done, working in us. Without Him we are all doomed for self-destruction. I am so thankful for God's love, compassion, grace and mercy towards us. Have a Blessed Day Everyone, Love and Peace

Oh no, I did it again. Shuffling around pieces of data in my nerdy brain a farted with my mouth. I didn't know your ethnicity. Please forgive me. I hope this explains my train of thought without burying myself deeper. Where I live, it is so PC that people will bite your head off if you give the wrong "title" or descriptive words, and sometimes that changes so much I never know what the "proper" word is anymore. And then some people prefer one word while other people prefer the other one. And then one friend I've talked to said she doesn't care which is used. So I do not know how to "properly" describe things anymore. I did not mean it derogatorily to anyone. I especially had no desire to offend you. I feel horrible that I did. When I think of "race" I think of culture, and there's nothing wrong with it. My mention of black churches was my trying to understand what you were speaking of, to understand what you were referring to, because I had never seen such in person. The references for my thinking were what I have seen in some videos. The only music videos that comes to mind by title are 1955 by Carman and scenes from the movie The Apostle. I may have seen things in other movies or sermon clips. Carman has another song where he tells the story of Pentecost but (quote) "as if the apostles were black" (his description) - complete with organ playing along with the preaching and everyone participating with "Amen" and such throughout it all. My attempt was to figure out where you were coming from, not to make any judgments on anyone. False teaching, preaching, and doctrine though? Did I allude to that in anything that I said? I was speaking of people like me who like to go wild and crazy when we are happy and excited. This is a personality issue. Please explain where I associated false teaching and preaching and doctrine with race? I hope this clears things up a little? Or maybe I should just crawl under a rock. . . . No, it's ok. It's just that I have also seen Caucasian and people of other races do these dances. That's why I said that maybe it's a denominational thing. I've seen people "Shout" in mostly charismatic denomination congregations( i.e. Pentecostal, Baptist etc...). Now, I've changed from Pentecostal to Non-Denominational. I don't really notice this dancing ritual in the church that I attended, unless it's a visitor from another denominational church.

Our male and female roles are pointers and examples of Christ and the church (bride of Christ). Christ is the head of the church. Godly men understand this position and calling in a marriage. Human men do not always see or know how to live up to the calling and station. So, grace is available to the man who stumbles about in the matter. The matter of "Old Fashioned" if held as a "badge of honor" can become a point of selfish flesh and lust. Do or do not. Follow after the example of Jesus Christ with the indwelling Spirit or do not by default. This is our choice. The human labels of "Old Fashioned" are a smokescreen to hide this reality of simply living by the Spirit in the role God has ordained us in and for. Finally, the modern church is no different and no less human and steeped in sin, flesh and lusts than any other generation. The issue of the hour is us in the hour as we are either to be found following after the Spirit or not. Peace and Grace to you all! That was well said. I'm just wondering if maybe the increase of people having children out of wedlock may have something to do with the shift of male and female roles. I also think that the Woman's Lib movement has a lot to do with it as well. I believe that we as women are very much capable of doing almost anything a man can do, but I think that some men go to the extreme about this. Therefore, leaving some women to take on the role of a man. Just thinking out loud.

I never heard of this. What churches did you grow up in? Hmmm...the only thing that comes to mind is what some black (African American - or whatever term we are supposed to use these days? Sorry, just confused) congregations. But in those services it seems the "Shoutin" is encouraged, with the instruments playing and everything. Well, without being there are seeing it or knowing the person, I can't accurately assess the situation. It could simply be a matter of a person like me who loves to be wild and crazy when excited (we're the nuts at the sports events, too!) just feeling joyful in the Lord and expressing that through the physical body. I've known that, but only during worship. The Lord meets us in different ways, depending on who we are or where we're at. Some of us just happen to be nuts and popcorn and jumping beans. Just something to consider in this. Well I don't believe that it's a matter of ethnicity, this is more about false doctrine. As far as what you are supposed to call us, I don't speak for my ethnic group, sorry, I just don't. I guess my thinking is just not that narrow. People are people to me and to say that false teaching, preaching or doctrine is associated with one race is just unacceptable, rude and ignorant. I am trying to have a civilized conversation with people of the same faith. Race should not even be an issue, but I'm not naive to the fact that everyone is on a different level of spiritual growth. However, open rebuke is better than love carefully concealed. With that said, I personally, would appreciate it if you would refer to me as a human being, person(s), believer, sister in Christ or my name, Fearfully1derfullyMade.

Praise the Lord everyone, Based on what I have been taught and have observed, I believe that the man is to be the head of the household. In modern society, it seems that the roles have somewhat been reversed. Am I being old fashioned? Is this a secular change or is it also in the Body of Christ? What does WCF have to say about this topic? I look forward to hearing from as many of you as possible. Thanks for reading this post

I understand and agree completely agree with what you are saying, but I'm not talking about literal "Shouting". In the churches that I grew up in and even on spiritual TV, like TBN, Daystar etc; some Christians refer to their dancing in the Spirit as "Shoutin". I don't know if this is a denominational thing or what, but I've witnessed people jumping up and dancing (Shoutin)during the preaching/teaching portion of the church service. One of my close relatives does this at every church they go to and it is embarrassing. I find it embarrassing b/c not every church believes or feels comfortable with "Shoutin". I've asked my relative why they do this and their response was that " It's the Holy Ghost". Again I don't believe that. When I was growing up, I remember one member of the congregation said that when you close your eyes and dance around "Shout" and the HS is guiding you, you will not hurt yourself. Now if you "Shout" with your eyes closed and nothing happens to you, then the HS is guiding you. I think it's nonsense, it has to be some man-made ritual, but how do you convince someone that you love that what they are doing isn't necessarily wrong, but can be harmful, not only physically, but also spiritually. I'm not saying that people who do this and believe in this will go to hell b/c I'm not God, but I don't think that it is in any way helpful to believe false doctrine, which is what I believe dancing in the Spirit "Shoutin" is.

I'm not trying to offend anyone and I hope that no one misinterprets what I am trying to say. What is meant by my post is that a lot of Christians say that the HS is responsible for and/or gives them the unction to dance. I am not making light of it, I am just asking a simple question. As Nebula pointed out, there are a lot of scriptures that encourage us to dance for the Lord, but is it actually the Spirit of God that makes us dance like speaking in tongues? Don't get me wrong, I've gotten my dance on for the Lord a few times, but some Christians do a certain dance that they say is the HS a.k.a "Shouting". I don't mean to be rude or disrespectful in any way, shape or form, but is the HS really the powering force that ignites some of us to dance? And when I said "Dancing for Show" in the topic, I wasn't referring to dancing to be cute or seen. I was saying are some Christians dancing to seem like they're more spiritual than others like "tonges without an interpreter", which btw is annoying to me. I guess different people dance for different reasons, but to say that it is b/c of the HG just doesn't seem scripturally based to me.

This has been on my mind for quite some time now and I would like as much biblical basis as possible on this one. I grew up in a very legalistic Pentecostal family and church. Some of my relatives believe that dancing, hooping and hollering is part of the move of the Holy Spirit. I personally don't believe this because #1- I've never experienced this and I believe that I am HS filled. #2 - I haven't found any scriptural basis for this practice/belief. Please help me with this one, because this really bothers me amongst many other things in the Body of Christ. Your posts are very much welcomed here. Thanks and God Bless

Hi everyone and great post btw. First and foremost, the church as I understand it to be is not within walls, it is the body of Christ. A lot of people go to the house of God for various reasons, which is why a lot of the greater works that Jesus said that we would and should be doing( making disciples of all nations, etc) are not being done. Not everyone who goes to a place of worship in Christ's name is in fact a Christian. Just like not evryone who doesn't go to "church" is not a Christian. I also don't think that some beleivers know what there function is in the body of Christ because a lot of believers are ignorant of what the Bible teaches and instructs us to do. I hate to say it, but some Christians are lazy and stagnant in their growth in Christ. Hosea 4:6 " my people are destroyed for lack of knowledge" and thus a lot of believers are being destroyed in many areas of their lives. Many Christians backslide because of poor teaching and/or leadership. Of course, we will be persecuted, but there is a fine line between being persecuted and destroyed. So I personally think that poor discipling begets poor discipling. IOW, if we as Christians aren't being taught the Word correctly, then it can make it very difficult to teach what we do not know to non-believers and help make them disciples of Christ. I personally have a lost for words when it comes to witnessing to others and I think a lot of Christians feel this way. I would be very thankful if anyone has any suggestions on how and when to witness to non-beleivers.

I agree with you because in Mark 3:29 and prior to this verse the Pharisees and the Saducees were saying that the power and authority that Jesus operated out of was an unclean spirit; when in fact He was, of course, operating out of/from the HS. So if you are rejecting and blaspheming the HS, you are also rejecting Jesus. I totally agree with everything you just said, but I would like to expand on something. Blasphemy of the Holy Spirit is actually ( when studied in detail correctly ) is NOT actually a specific individual sin. It is a deleberate rebellion in the heart against Christ AFTER the true knowledge of his identity has been revealed. This is what the religious leaders did to Jesus. They actually knee exactly who he was, but because their fear of losing the following of the crowds and their esteemed positions, they rejected him. BOHS is not unforgivable because it is a worse sin than the others. It is unforgivable because people who commit it have hardened their hearts so much that they will NEVER repent and seek forgiveness. I hope this helps, as I have met MANY a christian who has been confused as to what the actual BOHS actually means.

Well the blaspheming of the Holy Spirit is an unforgiveable sin, and please correct me if I'm wrong. Based on my experiences as well as observations, some people base sin on external as opposed to internal. What I mean by this is that they, and I'll admitt it, I've done this in the past and at times still have to catch myself; but when believers comitt sins that are visible(i.e. smoking, drinking excessively) it is perceived as worse sin than those that we can not see, such as pride, jealousy etc. So to sum it all up, the sins that we can see are worst than the sins that God sees( and he sees all of them) I understand that you're looking for opinions, but if you are a Christian, then your ideas and beliefs become more and more like God's. Of course we are human and not God, but as believers our opinions become God's facts as we grow in our walk with Christ. Love and Peace, Fearfully1derfullyMade