Sevenseas

huh reading many of the posts in this thread, this is a very popular discussion in many forums and I have seen it get heated up worse than what is written here I guess I would just like to draw attention to the fact that our efforts will never be good enough and for sure God does not want us to live in fear! that would be contradictory to what scripture shows us the balance is somewhere in between the base camps and people are somewhat talking past each other IMO I believe things have been 'shaking' way before this virus making the rounds but I guess that is another discussion there should never be any sort of fear introduced and I do not think that was the purpose of the op. however, Christianity is often not for the weak or faint but God knows our hearts and knows how to take care of each one of us the thing is to look to Jesus as He is the author and finisher of our faith. what is written is to advise us, warn us, prepare us and help us to discern our walk in the Spirit we will be tested and most of us have already been tested we are not all in the same place and some deal with fear with bravado and others just don't deal and find themselves reaching for worldly things to distract them from the world outside their doors so, hold fast, don't loose hope and keep your eyes on Jesus. I don't think any single person can speak for everyone but I know God deals with us personally, so He is the one to go to...as always 18 For you have not come [g]to the mountain that may be touched and that burned with fire, and to blackness and [h]darkness and tempest, 19 and the sound of a trumpet and the voice of words, so that those who heard it begged that the word should not be spoken to them anymore. 20 (For they could not endure what was commanded: “And if so much as a beast touches the mountain, it shall be stoned or shot with an arrow.” 21 And so terrifying was the sight that Moses said, “I am exceedingly afraid and trembling.”) 22 But you have come to Mount Zion and to the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, to an innumerable company of angels, 23 to the [j]general assembly and church of the firstborn who are registered in heaven, to God the Judge of all, to the spirits of just men made perfect, 24 to Jesus the Mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling that speaks better things than that of Abel. Hebrews 12 actually all of Hebrews 12 probably applies to the subject at hand

no you have not and I find the 'warnings' are insistent on what someone understands rather than what you have expressed sometimes communication is difficult for whatever reason (s) but you did say 'let's move on please' and that should be respected ?

I really do not see where anyone is talking about mysticism do you know what the word being used in the Bible for meditate means? it does not mean spacing out and letting your eyes roll into the back of your head nor does it mean listening to voices in the ethernet however it seems that might be how you picture it. does not mean people are doing what you ascribe to them

right and I've seen 'em both however, we should have liberty in Christ to be joyful in praise and as Psalm 150 illustrates I have also known those who just clapping hands is over the top and some just want that 1 hr special at church and then...'what's for lunch' ?

is Psalm 150 a joke? with over 4000 posts and several years under the belt, I know all about serious folks here

interesting I've seen some services in which I thought someone should call 911 because there was no evidence of life 1Praise the Lord. a Praise God in his sanctuary; praise him in his mighty heavens. 2Praise him for his acts of power; praise him for his surpassing greatness. 3Praise him with the sounding of the trumpet, praise him with the harp and lyre, 4praise him with timbrel and dancing, praise him with the strings and pipe, 5praise him with the clash of cymbals, praise him with resounding cymbals. 6Let everything that has breath praise the Lord. Praise the Lord. Psalm 150 with no apologies

examine the scriptures with your brain made me LOL but it's the truth renew your mind according to the word...and use the brain God gave you please

I'd be working with the horses...liberty training just the horses thank you very much! ?

everyone should spend time in the word. one reason people fall for unbiblical teaching is because they do NOT study or even read their Bible we are each accountable for ourselves and ignorance is not an excuse. the Bible does speak of 'itching ears' and those who follow unsound doctrine. the devil always seeks someone to devour and lead astray and we are responsible for our relationship with the Lord, no one else is. sadly, there is plenty of very bad so called teaching and false prophets etc flogging their wares and doing the devil's job for him 1In the presence of God and of Christ Jesus, who will judge the living and the dead, and in view of his appearing and his kingdom, I give you this charge: 2Preach the word; be prepared in season and out of season; correct, rebuke and encourage—with great patience and careful instruction. 3For the time will come when people will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear. 4They will turn their ears away from the truth and turn aside to myths. II Timothy 4

and it seems Beni is really sensitive to it. in her element so to speak

I did even more bizarre than the first stint. a shirtless apparition wearing really tight white yoga pants with gold slippers...like Aladdins oh and he also was 'forced' to wrestle with an angel like Jacob the men in white coats need to take him off the streets I don't know who is more out of it. him or the ones who think he represents God

oh is he? I haven't kept up with his latest trends...I left off where the angel angle was getting the low key treatment. thx for keeping us up to speed does a woman have to become a prostitute to share the gospel with them? in the same regard, does a person have to look like a member of Hell's Angels in order to be relevant? they will point to Paul and say Paul said he would be what he needed to be in order to witness of Christ. does anyone suppose that means he sinned like no tomorrow to sinners? we know what scripture says about angel worship and if even an angel should bring another gospel...the devil must laugh himself sick at people doing the opposite of what scripture says and everyone going oooo and aaaaaaah. and then the excuse is the church doesn't believe in the supernatural that is the equivalent of introducing a stage 3 rocket to a child and telling them to drive it. what is really going on (and you sound like you can figure it out and prob have) is introducing people who are ignorant, do not use discernment and think they do not have to because they are in a 'church'; in other words they are defenseless to what is about to hit them and go home with them, to a world they have 0 knowledge of and without caution they enter into it...lifting their hands, swaying, emptying their minds of common sense and accepting all the feelings washing over them what a setup right the trip to Lakeland by the fake Apostles was writing on the wall for anyone with ears and eyes to see the entire movement for what it is if you didn't get it then, you sure 'nuff should have got it after the worst part? ignorance is no excuse. we are warned over and over about deception. we have the OT to see what happens physically when the spiritual is allowed to overcome those who should know better God removes Himself. when you are in this world, you almost cannot remove yourself without some kind of intervention.

here's a link to what is called 'the Charismatic Day of Infamy' Wagner, part of the 500 (prob more now) 'recognized Apostles'...meaning they back and self congratulate and recognize each other', and the comissionig of Bentley just before the Lakeland fiasco in which Bentley punched a man with cancer in the stomach and declared him healed (man later died, not of the punch bu it did cause plenty of extra pain) and where the truth about his adultery came out some of the words said over Bentley BEFORE the adultery and other abusive practices were exposed and remember, that all these so called prophets were prophesing over Bentley when they said the following words. why did no prophets expose his adultery? well that would be because they are the false prophets of the OT saying peace peace when there is no peace. words 'prophesied': "I take the apostolic authority that God has given me and I decree to you Todd Bentley: Your power will increase. Your authority will increase. Your favor will increase. Your influence will increase. I also decree that a new supernatural strength will flow through this ministry. A new life-force will penetrate this move of God. Government will be established to set things in their proper order. God will pour out a higher level of discernment to distinguish truth from error. New relationships will surface to open the gates for the future!" there is also info about the infamous Bentley angel 'Emma' on this site that we no longer hear about but was all the rage back in the day

it's the deceived leading the deceived and since so much mutual admiration and complimentary 'prophecy' goes on, they have a bond that is hard to break

'destiny' is one of the buzzwords for this movement when you hear people speaking of 'destiny' as in 'moving forward' or 'breakthrough' they are either involved or on the fringes either way, it's a word that identifies this group

right as I said, what is being posted is only the tip of the iceburg so many Charismatics are already into 'Christian fortune telling' so it's not that big a step to dabble in (cough cough) disguised tarot cards and then deny doing it

I should add, that one reason Johnson has no problem covering up what goes on, is because they do not see people who object as included in the great commission to bring Jesus back we are religious and stagnant and Pharisees that is the inside party line they are above any criticism and like a hydra and spreading all the time as seducing evil spirits do

as I have said a number of times now, the Bible is pretty much passe for them and yes he uses it like a prop there is power there. power to deceive. power to seduce and deceive they will use the OT though for things like 'mantles' they will use whatever they can that 'sounds' right Jesus Culture is a huge money making machine for them just like United is for Hillsong as someone pointed out, not in this forum, they focus on spreading 'revival' but that was never what the Apostles were sent out to do that is not the commission Jesus gave I personally heard someone go further and further from the truth until they were saying things like 'the Lord's prayer is obsolete and wrong for us today' and most of what Jesus taught is 'under the law' so don't worry about any of that and also 'we don't have to forgive anyone we can just go to Jesus' it actually gets much worse and includes thing like astral projection. I'm not exaggerating. you are only touching on the tip of this iceburg of deception

well no the topic is Bethel church of which Johnson is one of the main characters if Bentley is an easy target, then so is Johnson because he was on of the original 'new apostles' who put his stamp of approval on le Bentley right fro square one and they blessed him and sent him forth to do the damage he did you can't make this stuff up there was a youtube video in which Johnson and the rest of the self appointed apostle dudes, actually COMMISSIONED Bentley to 'go forth" and this would have been when he was already involved in adultery but it had not yet been made public I watched that video myself guess what? it has been made 'no longer available' that is what these people do. they run after themselves and get rid of the evidence there is another youtube vid https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JONXRO4vPSc from which you can see where the link to the video I'm talking about is but when you click on it, it now takes you to where the vid used to be it's still in God's records though and they are going to reap a harvest they will not know what to do with

when you have to give up something that is going to completely change your worldview or personal paradigm you are going to defend your position until you either get angry with those opposing you or you are going to defend yourself with 'God would not let that happen to me because He knows how sincere I am' didn't work for me and it isn't going to work for anyone who goes into the NAR movement no matter how sincere or even actually gifted of God I am afraid, that God truly is not going to make any exceptions and I am also of the belief that His objectivity is the best for all of us and if He were as subjective as some would believe, then we are in a world of trouble and there is no hope for us it is BECAUSE He has the same standard for everyone, that we know He is impartial and not making exceptions and we can count on Him to judge righteously For there is no partiality with God. Romans 2:11 NAR would have us believe that the truth is IN the exceptions that they practice and would convince us that God is not in a box thing is, they have opened Pandora's box and not a box created by God the closest thing to a box God created in which He represented Himself, was the Ark of the Covenant and within that 'containment' was death if approached inappropriately situated in the Holy of Holies and approachable but once a year by the High Priest, who committed Himself to a life and death situation with a rope around his ankle in case he could not return the way he went in yes we can now approach God because of all that Christ did for us if we are in Him. but God is Holy and the exact same God that gave instructions for the Ark to be made people are going to run after the false as the Bible indicates they will, to have their itching ears scratched, and all you can do is warn them

I'd like to add to the above, that one of the hallmarks of the NAR movement, seems to be that a person calling themself a Christian and practicing a supposed gift always supersedes even the most qualified individual who is not a part of this movement I suppose they confirm their own wrong belief they are going to make a way for Christ to return to earth and He will not return until they get everything ready for Him that is the end game

FROM GOD..the gifts come from God ! and God decides...not a person one main reason for so many false prophets around contradicting each other, is because God never chose them. they either chose themself or duped people not exercising discernment flattered them into thinking they were 'special' there is no precedent for teaching people how to prophesy etc except for the school of the prophets in the OT isn't it awfully convenient that churches like Bethel will quote from either the OT or the NT depending on which one agrees with or they think agrees, with what they already have decided to do? maybe they should decide if they want a temple or a Christian congregation Bethel has all kinds of schools. you name and they got it or if not, it will be created soon and has been pointed out, there has been scrubbing going on in some of these schools because of the outcry of Christians concerning the false teachings and experimentation going on, including regression therapy practiced by NON professionals who by their confession of Christ are told they have the ability to do something that the actual professionals in the field have backed away from with the conclusion that regression therapy produces FALSE memories

no scripture tell us that it is GOD who decides who gets what spiritual gift and the Holy Spirit imbues the person with that gift at the direction of God as has been said, you cannot make a doctrine or a practice and call it 'godly' and say it has God's blessing upon it, from one example in scripture that is OUT OF THE NORM and takes place in the OT on top of it we are filled with the Spirit of God as believers (sealed at conversion and then filled later I believe is the mandate from the NT ) is God running out of the Holy Spirit in some hitherto unknown way that He now depends on fallible people to pass on a 'used' gift? I have seen so many demonic things passing for the Holy Spirit that I would not let a person I do not know pray over me and certainly not lay hands on me what is happening at Bethel has already happened. mostly in pagan rituals. I fully understand you do not want to believe that and most likely will not believe it there is no good end to what is being manufactured and practiced there, passing for the Holy Spirit I have myself experienced strange phenomena that at the time I thought was God but now know was not and never will be God there is most definitely a realm we cannot see and people charge into it without the slightest idea of what they need to be aware of there is more deception leading people into more and more deception than most know what to do with by the time the realization sets in that a person is being led by a bogus spirit and not the Spirit of God, they will most likely need help to break free of it as they have acquiesced so many times prior to the realization they are deceived you should know from someone, myself, who has seen this, that Bethel will scrub things that people say are not God and they will do alot of damage control, so no surprise you cannot find what some here are telling you about leadership also lies. vigorously and with forethought to cover up any mess that the practices of non-Christian rituals incur and they are fraught with non-professionals trying to help others who do not know what they are talking about this continuing evolving spirituality is a mark of deception. God does not change His mind every 5 minutes nor does He lie these are some of the hallmarks of a cult. this NAR cult is being practiced on a scale not seen before in the Christian church IMO and it is making inroads even into cessationist churches because it is demonic and has power to deceive God will not protect people from their own determination to experience the bizarre and goosebump inducing spiritual experiences that so many seem to crave because they believe in some way, that these experiences are superior to studying scripture and applying scripture oh for sure it is much easier and fun to go out with others with the fresh wind of some fantastic experience fueling the trip that mimics the Holy Spirit yet is not the Holy Spirit remember the slave girl from which Paul cast out a demon of fortune telling. don't bother to tell me about some being able to know things that they have no life experience of. this is not God. this is 'Christian' fortune telling and mimics the gift of actual word of knowledge given by God y'all are playing with fire and not the godly kind

sadly that is true Johnston was actually Pentecostal when he started out as was his father no longer true though. he has become a leading teacher of the New Apostolic Reformation people may not want to be deceived but they are and there will be a day of understanding what is really happening at that church and others like it I have done quite a bit of research into NAR and it is not just a passing phase, but is continuing to develop and becoming bolder in their advance of what the Bible actually calls witchcraft; manipulative, abusive, false prophecies and false 'signs and wonders' it is as if they have thrown away all understanding of biblical doctrine and are reinventing the gospel people who say 'hold on a minute' are dismissed as 'religious' and waved off as not having the understanding they project...which is actually no more than being led by false spirits...doctrines of demons it's very popular and those who have been burned by the precursor to it, as I was, understand full well the implications

no. what I 'hear' is you making things up how do you get me calling someone a crack pot when I made reference to the erroneous teaching and not to an individual? you do what you say you want others not to do it seems you are locked out of understanding what is being discussed here another time perhaps