firestormx

Thank you for taking the time to share this, I will pray over it all.

Thank you sharing your thoughts on this

But when the apostles Barnabas and Paul heard this.....` (Acts 14: 14) Greet Andronicus and Junia, my kinsmen and fellow prisoners, who are of note among the apostles, who also were in Christ before me.` (Rom. 16: 7) `Paul, Silvanas, and Timothy.....we might have made demands as apostles of Christ. (1 Thess. 1: 1, 2: 6) I saw this posted in another post and had a question or two about it. What are biblical evidence and/or hermeneutics used to determine these people were a different kind of Apostle than Paul? Clearly, they were not one of the 12 but Scripture clearly calls them Apostles.

You made a very interesting point with this I thought. It caused me to go look up the verses which led me to a question or 2. I will post the verses below and then my questions. Ephesians 4:8-13 8 Therefore He says: “When He ascended on high, He led captivity captive, And gave gifts to men.” 9 (Now this, “He ascended”—what does it mean but that He also firstdescended into the lower parts of the earth? 10 He who descended is also the One who ascended far above all the heavens, that He might fill all things.) 11 And He Himself gave some to be apostles, some prophets, some evangelists, and some pastors and teachers, 12 for the equipping of the saints for the work of ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ, 13 till we all come to the unity of the faith and of the knowledge of the Son of God, to a perfect man, to the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ; my questions 1. How come evangelists pastors and teachers from this same list or considered offices but not Apostles or Prophets? 2. Since he didn't give these offices until his ascension, how could walking with him in his earthly ministry be a requirement for any of them if he didn't give them until he ascended to heaven?

Thank you for your help with my study of this.

I just found it and was going to link it here. This is exactly what I was looking for. Thank you so much for instructing me on this. This is so fascinating, thank you, George, for your help.

I will look into it, thanks

Thanks for helping

Well, thanks for the conversation. I really enjoyed it. Your input has really helped me refine my question. thanks

I'll look into, thanks. There are many here who I believe is Jewish so I figured after coming up short in my own research, maybe someone here could point me in the right direction even if they can't answer. Thanks for pointing me somewhere I might be able to get an answer. That is actually how I come upon the question. If I was ministering to A non-believing Jew. What would he say the reason the temple was destroyed is.

well, to explain their captivity to Babylon and Assyria they can turn to the Prophets in the Word of God. I don't believe they can do that with the destruction of the 2nd temple. Which is why I'm curious and asking here. Thanks for all the questions. They have helped refine my questions so others may more clearly so what I'm trying to ask. So thanks.

But had God ever allowed the temple's destruction without reason? I'm just curious as to what their religious thinking was. For example, What do Orthodox Jews tell their children is the reason God allowed the 2nd temple to be destroyed.

I didn't explain myself well with those comments. I am very sorry. I was trying to say that from the Orthodox Jewish perspective. There are hundred of thousands, maybe millions of Jews who don't accept Jesus as Lord and Messiah. I'm curious why they believe the temple was destroyed. What justification do the Jews who reject Jesus give for the destruction of the temple? Maybe saying it this way would help. What did the Pharisees and Sadducees of 70 AD believe was the reason the temple was destroyed?

I thank you but that isn't my question. Maybe I'm not explaining myself well, I'll try again. What do Jews who are non-believers in Jesus as the Messiah believe about the temple destruction? The truth is, they rejected Jesus as Lord and Messiah. Jesus Prophesied the temple would be destroyed and it was. Orthodox Jews reject Jesus. So what is the reason they give for the temple's destruction in 70 AD?

Is there nobody here that knows the answer or who can point me in the right direction?

Thanks, when I'm at a place of peace over this I will look this movement and these people up. Thanks for the info and the chat.

Thank you for taking the time to share this. I will prayerfully consider all you have typed. Thanks again

The above sounds more like what I lean too. But where is the power of God at? I don't care about signs and wonders but there is no way you can be close enough to God to be genuinely walking in these ministries and not have the Spirit and Power of God be upon you mightily. Never really heard of this but this sounds like a bunch of nonsense. If this kinda stuff is people's only exposure to this subject, then no wonder people don't think it is for today. Thanks for the info to pray over.

I thank everyone for posting. I guess I should just lay my heart and thoughts on this bare and make it plain for all. I am just looking to understand some things I just can't shake from my heart. If Apostles and Prophets are not for today, then how are so many deceived into thinking they are for today or that they are called into this ministry? Is it just pride? A deception to pull people away from God and get them to look at men? If Apostles and Prophets are for today, then where are they? when tragedies strike, where are they? How come the only time the power of God seems to come upon anyone is when an offering plate is being passed around? When Paul and Barnabus went into 1 town they called them Zeus and Apollo ( Gods ) because the power of God was on them so strong, if I'm not mistaken. Peter's shadow healed people as he walked down the street because of the presence and power of God that was upon him so strong. There are so many people lost in darkness and pain that is almost beyond words. Where are these Apostles and Prophets who are fearlessly suppose to go into the heart of darkness in this world to be a light and beacon? Who stands in the presence and Power of God so mightily that none can deny that the Lord is God, the way Paul and Barnabus and the 12 did. Who rebukes the hypocrisy that seems to be so rampant in the Church and this world today. Being an Apostle or Prophet is supposed to be about your relationship with Jesus and helping others to build that super close relationship with him as well. I asked before and I ask again. If Apostles and Prophets are for today, then where are they? I just don't understand. Thank you to all who have posted in this thread. Maybe I just won't find peace on this subject. God Bless you all Joseph

Would you mind going into a little more detail about the qualifications of an Apostle? Also, have you found the Apostles you have grown up under had a deeper spirit and power of the Lord about them? Do you agree with the popular opinion that the Prophets today are different than the Prophets from the Old Testament? Also, any other thoughts you feel like sharing from your experience with this would be appreciated. thanks

I guess I've always thought of Apostle as the highest position a person can be granted by Christ in the church. thanks for letting me pick your brain.

yeah, I agree the 12 are different from the office that Paul and Barnabus held.

What is your position on James the brother of the Lord? Unless I'm wrong didn't he lead the early church? could he have done that and not been an apostle? just picking your brain, hope you don't mind.

thanks for clarifying your position

I thought this was a requirement for being one of the 12 only? Isn't there a difference between being in the office of an Apostle and being one of the 12?