firestormx

I agree there is a difference between the role or office of the 12 and the office of the Apostle that I am speaking of.

but does this nullify the office of an Apostle?

I wanted to make sure that everyone knew when you and the others posted that question was not there. you didn't ignore the question I just had not added it yet to the op.

I see a difference between the 12 and the office of an Apostle. I apologize for not clarifying that before now. I believe James the Brother of the Lord was in the office of an Apostle and so was Barnabus, were they not?

I added this question to the original post

If I may ask. What is your understanding of what makes someone an Apostle? I understand it to be someone Jesus has appeared to. Also, must have been trained and sent out or commissioned directly by Jesus himself. Which I admit is a very rare circumstance. My question is, by my understanding Apostles use to settle doctrinal disputes. Who has that authority now if Jesus can't make Apostles anymore.

Are Apostles and Prophets for today? Were the only Apostles the 12 and Paul or were Barnabas and James the brother of the Lord Apostles as well? If you believe Apostles are for today, then what are their responsibilities? Posted by edit after original post What makes someone an Apostle or what are the qualifications to be an Apostle.

I was curious if someone could help me with a question. What was the Jewish perspective for the reason for the destruction of the temple in 70ad? When Solomon's temple was destroyed, there were prophecies about it. Many Godly people had spoken and foretold its coming if there was not repentance. But not so with the 70 AD destruction. From the Jewish perspective, the words of Jesus didn't count. They were rebelling against a foreign power to serve God only. Temple participation was going strong. There was not a lot of Idolatry from the Jewish People. So from the Jewish perspective ( a Jew who doesn't believe Jesus is the Messiah ), Why did God allow the destruction of the temple and scattering of his people?

I think Jesus talks about doing the work his Father gave him many times. Every time I believe he is also talking about the healing and miracles and not just leading people to a real relationship with God the Father. The Healing and miracles were part of the prophecies of the Messiah. It is part of the answer he gives to John the Baptist when he is in prison. Speaking the truth of God should always be first but it should also be accompanied by the Spirit and power of God. Because the works of Jesus always included the demonstration of the Spirit and power of God as well. Firestormx Joseph

I enjoyed reading this post. thanks for sharing this.

It is all ok. As I said, John 3:13 was being taken out of context. I was trying to establish that it was being taken out of context by showing people in body and/or spirit being taken or being present in heaven. I am in agreement with your understanding of the verse, so there is really no problem here that I see. God bless

I 100% agree with your understanding of the verse John 3:13. Taking something out of context is something I believe we have all done from time to time. Especially when we are just learning or on a pet doctrine, IMO. I've never intended to call or even appear to call anyone a liar. That is a serious charge, again you are correct. I'll try to be a little more careful with my posts and the way I phrase things. I think that is a reminder we all need at times. I hope to see you around the forums to engage in further iron sharpening iron.

I didn't say he lied or was teaching a lie. I said he was taking the one verse out of context. Also, The verses I have posted show people in heaven which show his conclusions to be incorrect. I also brought up Elijah and Enoch which show his position to be incorrect that nobody will ever go to heaven. Please post where I called him or his posts LIES

I don't understand your response. I posted this because the other poster doesn't believe ( as I understand it ) anyone has or will ever go to heaven. I was trying to use this verse to show people in heaven. I don't understand your response.

Jesus opens the seals not angels. Also, the original post of yours the I responded to stated the verse John 3:13. Which is where Jesus talks about no one ascending to heaven. I was posting these verses and was going to post about Enoch and Elijah to show people in heaven and that your post was taking that verse out of context.

These people in Revelation 7 are in Heaven before the throne of God. How did they get there? I'm sorry they are not on earth. The Bible disagrees with that position. Revelation 7:15 Therefore are they before the throne of God, and serve him day and night in his temple: and he that sitteth on the throne shall dwell among them.

The verses I quoted (Revelations 6:9-10) say it is happening in heaven not on earth. How did they get in heaven to be given white robes. If you need clearer verses how about the verses below. Which clearly say they are in Heaven before the throne of God! I ask again. How did they get there? Revelation 7 :9-16 After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands; And cried with a loud voice, saying, Salvation to our God which sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb. And all the angels stood round about the throne, and about the elders and the four beasts, and fell before the throne on their faces, and worshipped God, Saying, Amen: Blessing, and glory, and wisdom, and thanksgiving, and honour, and power, and might, be unto our God for ever and ever. Amen. And one of the elders answered, saying unto me, What are these which are arrayed in white robes? and whence came they? And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb. Therefore are they before the throne of God, and serve him day and night in his temple: and he that sitteth on the throne shall dwell among them. They shall hunger no more, neither thirst any more; neither shall the sun light on them, nor any heat.

Revelations 6:9-10 When He opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of those who had been slain for the word of God and for the testimony which they held. And they cried with a loud voice, saying, “How long, O Lord, holy and true, until You judge and avenge our blood on those who dwell on the earth?” the verses above are talking about people in heaven under the altar. Right after this, they are all given white robes. If nobody is ever going to the place of God the Father and Jesus in Heaven, then how do you explain the verses above?

But those verses don't apply to everything in scripture that has a time table. If you apply that verse to this, then would you not also have to apply it the prophecy of 70 weeks? I just don't think this is sound biblical theology or sound hermeneutics. I do thank you for taking the time to answer my question. I will try to refrain from derailing this thread any further.

If I may ask, How exactly is the conclusion drawn of a "20-year gap"?

Did you read the article? This is talking about Daniel

thank you for such merciful encouragement.

Very Good point. I can't argue with this statement. Just so frustrated and tired. but you make a lot of good points in your post. As with the others, I will prayerfully consider what you have shared. Thank you for taking the time to post.

Satan can do nothing that God doesn't allow. The story of Job proves that. I'm not saying God did it. I'm saying God could have told Satan he couldn't touch me and then he wouldn't have been able to. I want to know how is it fair for some to never know what a real problem is while others suffer endlessly. I'm not angry, and I'm not responding in anger. You want to leave the convo, then I'm sorry to see you go. If you have already worked out all this for your life, then praise God. I haven't. So forgive me but I want this put to bed in my life. Once and for all. Which is why I'm here. See I believe Satan holds power over us when we keep things in the dark. So I choose to bring all this out here, with the hope that maybe I can finally get closure over all this.

I've had dreams my whole life. So I find it a little ironic you would say, Joseph in the bible ( also happens to be my name ). He has come to me in dreams. Showed me I would minister. Showed me he had a wife for me. showed me many things. Sometimes the past and the pain just become so hard to bear. It's like I'm buried in a casket 6 feet under. I scream and scream yet nobody hears me. Sometimes it is just so hard to wait on him. Sometimes I wonder why he didn't love me enough to spare me all the pain. Thanks for the talk. God bless