proverbs35

Many of the duties outlined in Proverbs 31:10-31 are mutual; they apply to BOTH men and women. Christian husbands should also - do their spouses good: Luke 6:27,35 He 13:16 - and not harm: Eph 5:25, Ro 13:10 - work with their hands: 1 The 4:11 - not be idle: 2 The 3:6-12, 1 The 5:14 - speak with wisdom: Pr 10:31, Ps 37:30, James 1:5 - care for the poor: Mat 25:34-46 - fear the Lord: Ps 112:1 So while all the duties listed in Proverbs 31:10-31 might not apply to men, these do. They are simply part of the Christian lifestyle, and they apply to BOTH men and women.

Many of the virtuous women listed throughout the Bible possessed some of the virtues and/or performed some of the duties listed in Pr 31. A wife of noble character who can find? (v. 10) Ruth was know as a woman of noble character (Ru 3:11). Like the Pr 31 woman, Lydia was a woman of noble character. The name “Lydia” means noble. She is clothed in fine linen and purple (v. 22b). Lydia sold purple cloth (Ac 16:14). Both Lydia and the Pr 31 woman were merchants. She has been like a merchant’s ship that brings its merchandise from far away (v. 14). The Queen of Sheba literally brought Solomon large quantities of spices from far away. (1 Ki 10:6-10). Reward her for her work— let her actions result in public praise (v. 31). The Queen of Sheba’s quest for wisdom brought her public praise. The Queen of Sheba is one of the few women Jesus publicly acknowledged and commended from the OT(Ma 12:42). She came from afar to hear the wisdom of a mere man. She was amazed at what she saw and heard. However, when Jesus who was greater than Solomon came, many despised, rejected, slighted and slandered Him. Doesn’t let her lamp go out… (v. 18b). In the parable, the wise virgins didn’t allow their lamps to go out. They were prepared when the Bridegroom came (Ma 25:1-12). Anna’s lamp didn’t go out at night because she worshiped God day and night by fasting and praying (Lu 2:36-38). Helps the poor (v. 20). Dorcas helped the poor (Ac 9:36). … speaks with wisdom, and faithful instruction is on her tongue (v. 26). The Wise Woman of Abel’s instruction saved her city from destruction (2 Sa 20:19-22). Huldah spoke with wisdom and sent the king a message from God (2 Ki 22:14-20). Deborah wisely instructed the people of Israel (Ju chapter 4 & 5). Esther spoke wisely to the king and helped save the Jews from annihilation (Book of Esther). Priscilla helped her husband give Apollos wise and faithful instruction (Ac 18:26). Abigail spoke wisely to David. David recognized the wisdom in Abigail's words, and he decided not to kill Abigail's foolish husband and the other men in that household (1 Sam chapter 25). She watches over the affairs of her household (v. 27a). Rahab watched over the affairs of her household. She wisely and faithfully instructed the spies about how to hide and escape. She also negotiated a plan that saved her life and the lives of those in her house (He 11:31). Her children arise and call her blessed; her husband also, and he praises her: Many women do noble things, but you surpass them all (v. 29). Like Pr 31 woman, these women were also called blessed. Most blessed among women is Jael, the wife of Heber the Kenite. May she be blessed above all women who live in tents (Ju 5:24). Mary – Thou that art highly favoured, the Lord is with thee: blessed art thou among women (Lu 1:28). David said to Abigail, "Blessed be your discretion, and blessed be you" (1Sam 25:32-33). She brings him good, not harm, all the days of her life (v. 12). Because of Zipporah’s proactivity as it relates to circumcising their son, God’s spared Moses' life (Ex 4:14-20). The description listed for the Pr 31 woman can also serve as a catalyst that compels us to appreciate and study other virtuous women listed throughout the Bible. None of these women were superwoman, but each one possessed some of the virtuous qualities and/or performed some of the duties outlined in Pr 31. Instead of thinking about all the ways we might fall short of Pr 31, may we consider whatever characteristics we have in common with her like the women mentioned above.

Many of the duties outlined in Pr 31 are mutual; they apply to both men and women. They are part of the Christian lifestyle. Mutual Duties Listed in Pr 31: Display Strength A wife of noble character who can find? She is worth far more than rubies (v.10). The phrase translated as “virtuous woman” or “woman of noble character” means Eshet CHAYIL in Hebrew. CHAYIL (Strong’s 2428) means to display strength. The word CHAYIL is also used to describe mighty men of valor in the Bible: Josh 1:14, 6:2; Judg 6:12; 2 Kgs 15:20. Men can and should be noble and virtuous (CHAYIL) too. Do Good She will do him good … (v.12). As believers, men and women are admonished to “do good” to our enemies (Lu 6:27, 35). Christian men and women are admonished to “do good” and to share with others (He 13:16). Do No Harm She brings him good, not harm … (v.12). Husbands are instructed to love their wives just as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her (Eph 5:25). Romans 13:10 tells us that “love does no harm.” Therefore, if a husband loves his wife, he will not harm her. Work With Your Hands She … works with eager hands (v.13). Christian men and women are called to live a quiet lives, mind our business and “work with our hands” … (1 Th 4:11). Don’t Be Idle She … does not eat the bread of idleness (v.27). Paul proclaimed the value of hard work and sternly warned men and women not to be idle (2 Th 3:6-12). “And we urge you, brothers and sisters, warn those who are idle and disruptive, encourage the disheartened, help the weak, be patient with everyone” ( 1 Th 5:14). Speak With Wisdom She speaks with wisdom, and faithful instruction is on her tongue (v.26). “The mouth of the righteous man utters wisdom, and his tongue speaks what is just” (Ps 37:30). Care for the Poor She opens her arms to the poor and extends her hands to the needy (v.20). Christian men and women are admonished to care for the poor and needy (Ma 25:34-40). Fear the Lord … a woman who fears the Lord is to be praised (v. 30). “Blessed is the man who fears the LORD, who greatly delights in his commandments!” (Ps 112:1) A Christian husband should also perform many of the duties outlined in Pr 31: displaying strength, doing their spouses good and not harm, working with their hands, not being idle, speaking wisdom, caring for the poor and fearing the Lord. Those responsibilities are simply part of the Christian lifestyle. An excellent wife who can find? She is far more precious than jewels (v. ‭10). ‬ Most men will proclaim every one his own goodness; but a faithful man, who can find? Pr 20:6

I can agree with that because it's scripture (Eph 5:24). I simply believe that words and wording is important because words can influence and affect behavior.

We simply have to agree to disagree because what you have described here for basically the 2nd time is not consistent with the definition of the word absolute.

Some men readily and eagerly proclaim that a husband is the authority, lord and master of his wife. But they usually don't acknowledge and embrace their responsibility to serve their wives as readily or eagerly. For those who claim that marriage is a master/slave relationship where a husband is his wife's master: FYI, we are ALL (husbands included) instructed to serve - become slaves to one another in love. It's part of the Christian lifestyle. Husbands are not exempt. 13 For you were called to freedom, brothers and sisters; only do not use your freedom as an opportunity for self-indulgence, but through love become SLAVES to one another. 14 For the whole law is summed up in a single commandment, “You shall love your neighbor as yourself.” (Gal 5:12-14 NRSV) The word that usually gets translated as serve in Gal 5:13 means slave. http://biblehub.com/lexicon/galatians/5-13.htm http://biblehub.com/greek/1398.htm So yes, husbands have been given limited authority over their wives, and husbands and wives are suppose to serve - become slaves to one another in love because that's part of the Christian lifestyle. A husband's limited authority over his wife should be characterized with servantship rather than lordship. After all, husbands are instructed to love their wives like Christ loved the church. How did Christ demonstrate love for his bride the church? One (there are many) of the primary ways Christ demonstrated love for his church was through servantship. The Son of Man did not come to be served, but to serve, and to give his life as a ransom for many." Matt 20:28, Mark 10:45

As for Gen 3:16, I commented on that earlier, but you may have missed, so I'll post it again. Gen 3:16 is DESCRIPTIVE rather than INSTRUCTIVE. It DESCRIBES how the relationship between husband and wife was affected after the fall of mankind. The whole women covet man's authority idea based on Gen 3:16 is a relatively new interpretation of that verse. It is not the traditional interpretation of Genesis 3:16. Susan Foh introduced that interpretation in the 1970s in an effort to fight 2nd wave feminism. However, prior to that time, that was not the interpretation used or accepted by Biblical scholars and translators for centuries. Bible translations and lexicons prior to the 1970s Susan Foh interpretation refer to DESIRE as a "longing for." The Hebrew word translated “desire” is used three times in the Old Testament: Genesis 3:16, Genesis 4:7 and Song of Solomon 7:10. In the Song of Solomon 7:10, it refers to sexual desire which is the traditional interpretation of it. Wendy Alsup expounds on Susan Foh and the longstanding historical interpretation of Gen 3:16. http://theologyforwomen.org/2012/04/a-somewhat-scholarly-analysis-of-genesis-316.html I truly believe the Message Bible translates it best: He told the Woman: "I'll multiply your pains in childbirth; you'll give birth to your babies in pain. You'll want to please your husband, but he'll lord it over you." Gen

You must have misunderstood. I was not quibbling over that point about a husband not having the right to command his wife to sin. The focus of my post was about absolute authority vs. limited authority.

You say a husband has absolute authority over his wife but then you acknowledge that his authority is limited when you said, " The husband can't demand his wife to sin. His authority doesn't extend that far," Those are contradictory statements. They do not line up with the definition for the word absolute. Absolute is defined as: : complete and total : not limited in any way : having unlimited power Source: Merriam-Webster Dictionary A husband's authority is not absolute - complete, total or unlimited. A husband's authority over his wife is conditional and limited. What are those conditions/limits? As you acknowledged, a husband does not have the authority to demand his wife to sin. That's an example of limited authority rather than absolute authority. Jesus is the only absolute authority in the universe, and he alone deserves that honor, privilege and responsibility. Jesus came up and said to them, “All authority (all power of ABSOLUTE rule) in heaven and on earth has been given to Me. Matt 28:18 AMP Absolute authority was given to Jesus not husbands. Limited authority was given to husbands and other human authorities.

Gen 3:16 is DESCRIPTIVE rather than INSTRUCTIVE. It DESCRIBES how the relationship between husband and wife was affected after the fall of mankind. The whole women covet man's authority idea based on Gen 3:16 is a relatively new interpretation of that verse. It is not the traditional interpretation of Genesis 3:16. Susan Foh introduced that interpretation in the 1970s in an effort to fight 2nd wave feminism. However, prior to that time, that was not the interpretation used or accepted by Biblical scholars and translators for centuries. Bible translations and lexicons prior to the 1970s Susan Foh interpretation refer to DESIRE as a "longing for." The Hebrew word translated “desire” is used three times in the Old Testament: Genesis 3:16, Genesis 4:7 and Song of Solomon 7:10. In the Song of Solomon 7:10, it refers to sexual desire which is the traditional interpretation of it. Wendy Alsup expounds on Susan Foh and the longstanding historical interpretation of Gen 3:16. http://theologyforwomen.org/2012/04/a-somewhat-scholarly-analysis-of-genesis-316.html I truly believe the Message Bible translates it best: He told the Woman: "I'll multiply your pains in childbirth; you'll give birth to your babies in pain. You'll want to please your husband, but he'll lord it over you." Gen 3:16

The Woman of Influence thread is about the Pr 31 woman. Solomon did describe the Man of Noble Character. It's not localized to one chapter, but it's scattered throughout Proverbs. A wise man will hear and increase in learning, And a man of understanding will acquire wise counsel. Pro 1:5 Reprove a wise man and he will love you. Pro 9:8 Give instruction to a wise man and he will be still wiser, Teach a righteous man and he will increase his learning. Pro 9:9 ...a man of understanding holds his peace. Pro 11:12 The generous man will be prosperous, And he who waters will himself be watered. Pro 11:25 A good man will obtain favor from the LORD. Pro 12:2 A wise man is he who listens to counsel. Pro 12:15 A prudent man overlooks an insult. Pro 12:16 A righteous man hates falsehood... Pro 13:5 Every prudent man acts with knowledge. Pro 13:16 He who walks with wise men will be wise. Pro 13:20 A good man leaves an inheritance to his children's children. Pro 13:22 The sensible man considers his steps. Proverbs 14:15 A wise man is cautious and turns away from evil. Pro 14:16 He who is slow to anger has great understanding. Pro 14:29 A man of understanding walks straight. Pro 15:21 ...he who has a cool spirit is a man of understanding. Pro 17:27 House and riches are the inheritance from fathers. Pr 19:14 What is desirable in a man is his kindness. Pro 19:22 A righteous man who walks in his integrity-- How blessed are his sons after him. Pro 20:7 A wise man scales the city of the mighty And brings down the stronghold in which they trust. Pro 21:22 A prudent man sees danger, and hides himself... Pro 22:3, 27:12 A wise man is strong, And a man of knowledge increases power. Pro 24:5 For a righteous man falls seven times, and rises again, But the wicked stumble in time of calamity. Pro 24:16 A faithful man will abound with blessings, But he who makes haste to be rich will not go unpunished. Pro 28:20 A fool always loses his temper, But a wise man holds it back. Pro 29:11 Many modern translations use the word PERSON in these verses, but older translations use MAN or HE. It's true that these verses also apply to women. Likewise, many of the traits used to describe the Pr 31 woman also apply to men. Case in point, a virtuous wife will do her husband "good." As believers, men and women are admonished to "do good" to our enemies (Lu 6:27, 35). Hebrews 13:16 is another example where Christians are admonished to "do good" and to share with others. The virtuous woman is hard working and not idle. Apostle Paul proclaimed the value of hard work and sternly warned men (and women) not to be idle (2 Th 3:6-12). The virtuous woman's words are wise and kind. Likewise, Ps 37:30 states that "the mouth of the righteous man utters wisdom, and his tongue speaks what is just." The virtuous woman takes times to care for the poor and needy. As believers, we are all admonished to care for the poor and needy (Ma 25:34-40). The most publicized Proverbs are usually the ones about women and wives. However, Proverbs contains a plethora of wisdom and knowledge vital for the entire body of Christ.

The Pr 31 woman is a composite of several virtuous women listed throughout the Bible. Pr 31:10 Everyone in her community knew that Ruth was a virtuous woman (Ru 3:11). These women were called blessed: Her children arise and call her blessed; her husband also, and he praises her: “Many women do noble things, but you surpass them all.” (Pr 31:29) Most blessed among women is Jael, the wife of Heber the Kenite. May she be blessed above all women who live in tents. (Ju 5:24) Mary - Thou that art highly favoured, the Lord is with thee: blessed art thou among women. (Lu 1:28) These women spoke wisdom and faithful instruction. (Pr 31:26). Unnamed wise woman of Abel's wise instruction saved her city. (2 Sa 20:19-22) Esther was woman of strength and dignity who feared God. Her wisdom helped saved the Jews from annihilation. (Book of Es) Pilate's wife spoke with wisdom and faithful instruction. (Mt 27:19) Others in her community had "full confidence" in the prophet Huldah's ability to authenticate a very important book for the king. (2 Ki 22:14-20). Rahab "watched over the affairs of her household." She wisely and faithfully "instructed" the spies about how to hide and escape. She negotiated a plan that would save her life and the lives of those in her household. (He 11:31) Priscilla worked with her hands too. She was a tent maker. She assisted her husband in giving Apollos wise and faithful instruction. (Ac 18:26) Prophetess Anna's lamp didn't go out at night because she worshiped God day and night by fasting and praying. She wasn't idle, and wisdom and faithful instruction were on her tongue. (Lu 2:36-38) Judge & Prophet Deborah wisely instructed the people of Israel. (Ju chapter 4 & 5) She has been like a merchant's ship that brings its merchandise from far away. (Pr 31:14) The Queen of Sheba literally brought Solomon gifts of gold, large quantities of spices, and precious stones from away. (1 Ki 10:6-10). Also like Pro 31 woman, Queen of Sheba'a earned a reward, and her quest for wisdom brought her praise. Queen of Sheba is one of the few women Jesus celebrates from the OT. She came from afar to hear the wisdom of a mere man. She was amazed at what she saw and heard. However, when Jesus who was greater than Solomon came, many despised, rejected, slighted and slandered Him. (Mt 12:42) Watched over affairs of household (Pr 31:27) Zipporah knew what she needed to do to save her husband's life. She brought him goodness and not harm. (Ex 4:14-20) Moses' mom hid him. Moses may or may not have called her blessed, but Paul felt she was blessed and listed her in the Hebrew Hall of faith. (He 11:23). Deacon Phoebe helped watch over the affairs of the household of faith. (Ro 16:1-2) Brings goodness rather than harm. (Pr 31:12) Midwives did what was "good" for newborns and refused to harm them like the king commanded. (Ex 1:15-21) Helps poor (Pr 31:20) Dorcas helped the poor. (Ac 9:36) Doesn't let her lamp go out... (Pr 31:18) Wise virgin didn't allow her lamp to go out. She was prepared when Bridegroom came. (Ma 25:1-12) Like the Pr 31 woman, Lydia was a woman of noble character. The name "Lydia" means noble. The Pr 31 woman wore purple, and Lydia sold it. Pro 31 woman was a merchant and so was Lydia. (Ac 16:14, 40) None of these women were superwoman, but each was super and virtuous in her own way.