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Bible_Gazer

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  1. If we examine the sentence, it is clear the reference is to Jerusalem, and the spiritual reference is in regards to the city, not the crucifixion. And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, where also our Lord was crucified. Now it's clear by removing the spiritual reference what the meaning of the sentence is, and more importantly where it is. The missing segment is an added description in regards to the city the sentence is based on. It's not that complicated. The temple that will be built is not what God wants, why? Because its the old way of doing things, prior to Jesus. Since Jesus the temple is found within the believer, not a building constructed by man, God is not there. Who is there? The a/c, demanding that everyone worship him and proclaiming himself to be god, desecrating the temple. This is idolatry at its worst wouldnt you say? Not everything in Revelation is a metaphor, some of it is very literal. The section regarding the two witnesses is a literal section with two inclusions of symbolism 1) the two olive trees and lampstands, and 2) the spiritual reference to the city which is really more of a comparison. So if we remove the spiritual part. (symbols) The Great City Babylon which is really the city of Jerusalem ??? So do you think they(two Wit) are the one mention in Rev. 18 saying come out of her my people ? And these people are the one that goes into wilderness. Rev.11 right ? And do you think John measuring the Temple, that is in the great city.(future temple) If so, these two Witnesses came from the temple right ? He told John not the measure outside the Temple it is given to the Gentiles - So the Jews must have control inside of the Temple - correct ? So the two witnesses could be Jews then. If its all letiral.
  2. Jesus wasn't crucified spiritually, He was crucified physically. The spiritual reference is in regards to the city, and Sodom and Egypt are both synonymous with sin throughout the bible, also mentioned together in Jude. Jerusalem is not a city of Christians, and at this time in particular the a/c will have desecrated the temple and the Jews will most likely have fled to the mountains. Its the people that crucify Christ in there heart - spiritually as you read above in Hebrews 6 They rejected Christ after they have known him. The street of the Great City --Sodom and Egypt--is Flesh(lust) and Idolatry(false religion)This is the same Woman in Rev.17- That Great City This was the falling away time.
  3. 4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, 5 And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, 6 If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame 4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, 5 And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, 6 If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame Heb 6:4-6 (KJV) 8 And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified. KJV Seem like the Lord can be crucify some where else . Spiritually So if this is spirtually speaking most likely Sodom and Egypt is to. Sodom = flesh and Egypt = Idolatry Great City must be like the Bad city in Rev.18 where the evil spirits hang out. v3.
  4. will those who are caught away when Jesus comes back have to die ? If appointed for man to die once really means this. (physically)
  5. Their preaching will reveal who they belong to. (The Body of Christ or the Beast)
  6. I heard what a person said about the silence in heaven. He said "That shows that there is no women in heaven."
  7. Hey bible gazer, how does what you state below measure up with the above? The passage says it's a new song, and that no one else can learn it, so how do you conclude a) it's the same song, and b) that the four living creatures and the twenty four elders know it? I'm also curious how you conclude these are two different groups of 144,000, based on the following verses it appears to me they are the same group. You will notice in the first passage it states "we", meaning more than one, which is more specific in the second passage. Revelation 7:3 "Do not harm the land or the sea or the trees until we put a seal on the foreheads of the servants of our God." Revelation 14:1 Then I looked, and there before me was the Lamb, standing on Mount Zion, and with Him 144,000 who had His name and His Father's name written on their foreheads. Actually the four beast and elder are the 144,000 redeemed from among different tongues and nation. You would have to figure out what these 4 beast represent, they do come from among mankind.(not just four of them) Its like the Bride- is she just one woman or is she the church saints. "Metaphor" Rev. 7 says 144,000 Jews people not Gentiles. They are not the first fruits. The Bride is the first fruits taken from the earth. Everybody has to have Jesus in their forehead to be saved anyway. No matter what group gets saved
  8. They are the first fruits from the earth. Redeemed from among mankind. Follow Jesus - also on white horses in Rev.19 - the army of the Lord Kings and Priest riegn with Christ 1,000 years The Bride The first resurrection group they did sing a song, its the same one in Rev.5 when the four best and 24 elders sang being from humanity of different tongues and nations. and their is another group the Jewish 144,000 sealed
  9. Gosh ! only just two literal witnesses left ? must be like Sodom and Gomorrah, if there be ten righteous people will you spare the city. only two went up as it is read.
  10. Bible_Gazer

    The Mark

    37 Mark the perfect man, and behold the upright: for the end of that man is peace. Psalms 37:37 (KJV)
  11. Bible_Gazer

    The Mark

    Rev. 14 saints = had a marking on their foreheads. it identifies who's family they belong to. How are we marked today if we are a Christian ? besides wearing a T-shirt that says it.
  12. Read the latter part. 7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison, 8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea. To me there is still Nations around not just one, and these seem to be not with the kingdom of God. During the 1,000 years. Otherwise where did these enimies come from. Now we should believe there is a kingdom of God here also. Says in Revelation: Rev.1:6 And hath made us kings and priests unto God and his Father Rev.2:26 And he that overcometh, and keepeth my works unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations: 27 And he shall rule them with a rod of iron; as the vessels of a potter shall they be broken to shivers: even as I received of my Father. Rev.19:14 And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean. 15 And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God. How I see it is They rule with Christ during the 1,000 years cleaning up the earth(With the Word of God which judge people) of evil and sinful nations.(not all people gets converted) Preparing for the Holy City to come down. Rev.21
  13. 5 So also Christ glorified not himself to be made an high priest; but he that said unto him, Thou art my Son, to day have I begotten thee. 6 As he saith also in another place, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec. 7 Who in the days of his flesh, when he had offered up prayers and supplications with strong crying and tears unto him that was able to save him from death, and was heard in that he feared; 8 Though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered; 9 And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him; Heb 5:5-9 (KJV)
  14. Where does it say that the Holy Ghost will not forgive? All the passage says is that one who blasphemes the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven.... Then who is not going to forgive them ? if they ask God or Jesus or Holy Ghost God is one being with three "persons" or "personalities". God (the being with three personalities) forgives sins. When one member of the Godhead forgives a sin, the other members forgive it also. The Godhead is one; there is unity of purpose and decision between them. If this were not the case, there would be a contradiction (or division) between God's intentions, which cannot be, because what is divided cannot stand eternally. God and his kingdom are indivisible and eternal. ...Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom. Hebrews 1:8 ...Every kingdom divided against itself is brought to desolation; and a house divided against a house falleth. Luke 11:17 For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one. 1 John 5:7 You didn't answer the question You can sin against God and get forgiveness You can sin against Jesus and get forgiveness You sin(blasphemy) against Holy Ghost there is no forgiveness. Who is not forgiving ?
  15. Where does it say that the Holy Ghost will not forgive? All the passage says is that one who blasphemes the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven.... Then who is not going to forgive them ? if they ask God or Jesus or Holy Ghost
  16. 31 Wherefore I say unto you, All manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men: but the blasphemy against the Holy Ghost shall not be forgiven unto men. 32 And whosoever speaketh a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but whosoever speaketh against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, neither in the world to come Matt 12:31-32 (KJV) Now if they are the same. Seem there is a different between them in forgiveness. How come the Holy Ghost will not forgive ? God forgives and Jesus forgives.
  17. Ok this is how I see it. The OT laws was good, it indeed saved people, but did not give them eternal life. (but you had to live the laws) Abraham faith saved him but did not give him eternal life. (but he still had to keep the faith) These all died in faith and keeping the laws of God. Yes they did not have baptism, but they did die. So we read in Hebrews 11 these died in the faith coming short of the promise. These saints believed in the resurrection, so their name was written in the Book of Remembrance 16 Then they that feared the Lord spake often one to another: and the Lord hearkened, and heard it, and a book of remembrance was written before him for them that feared the Lord, and that thought upon his name. 17 And they shall be mine, saith the Lord of hosts, in that day when I make up my jewels; and I will spare them, as a man spareth his own son that serveth him. Mal 3:16-17 (KJV So these lack the promise for eternal life. - They needed a life source which the OT could not give. So the promise came which is Jesus and his gospel of the Kingdom and how to get their. A new salvation plan came into effect. Jesus says you must be born again and obey.(the same as in the OT. John says there one coming he will baptize you with the Holy Ghost and with Fire. Peter said to be saved you must repent, be baptized and recieve the HG. So here come the ticker. The OT saints died but were saved. Saved from what ? == Saved from Eternal Death. This is were Matthew 27:51-53 comes in. These Hebrews 11 saints came forth from the dead and went into the church to get salvation for eternal life and to be with the Lord. These had to get born again just like everyone else does. i believe they all made it to this time and not died like they did before. So if you see the picture here they came short on a complete salvation but they got a resurrection to get it fixed. So what happens to people here in our day if they do not complete their salvation as Jesus requires. They will get the second resurrection at the end of the next 1,000 year to get it fixed. i am talking about those who could not get things done before a sudden death. yes grace saves you from eternal death until you are complete - Christ like. I don't believe in a Hell where people spend eternal life in. I believe either dead or alive. I still believe in the Book of Remembrance still exist(God's mind) and that is where those who do not get their complete salvation as the OT saints didn't. I do not believe the second resurrection is for damnation, its a good resurrection just like the one in Matthew 27. So you have it . I know you will think I am way off but I believe I am way on it right. I am not a osas believer, only if you stay in Chirst Jesus. Your Brother in Christ Jesus. Bible_Gazer
  18. 15 All their wickedness is in Gilgal: for there I hated them: for the wickedness of their doings I will drive them out of mine house, I will love them no more: all their princes are revolters. 16 Ephraim is smitten, their root is dried up, they shall bear no fruit: yea, though they bring forth, yet will I slay even the beloved fruit of their womb. 17 My God will cast them away, because they did not hearken unto him: and they shall be wanderers among the nations Hosea 9:15-17 (KJV) Does God's love change ? Perhaps you'll address please the rest of the post? Particularly the comment in green. Then we can get into that question in red. What do you think? 1. question: I do believe in Jesus and his doctrine(commandments) is the only way I also believe what Jesus says we must do. 2.question: Baptism is not for show, its for your birth - to be born again. I do believe Jesus said you must be born again to enter in to the kingdom. so did he change on that sometime later ? How do you think on that ? . 1. Question: So did Jesus say "I am the way, the truth, and the life. No man comes to the Father but by me {and the commandments of God}"? John 14:6 The Law (the commandments) doesn't save my friend. There is no Jesus + {insert here} = salvation. 2. I believe being born again happens when one believes and confesses Jesus is Lord. You don't have to wait until baptism to be born again. Where do you get the idea in the Bible that baptism is required to be born again? God bless, GE John 3:3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God. 4 Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born? 5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. 6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. 7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again. Where do you get your scripture for your number 2 statement ? John 14:15 If ye love me, keep my commandments. John 14:21 He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him. John 15:10 If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love. If don't have God's love, I don't think you will be with him. Love saves
  19. STAY saved? So, you believe it's by your power/works that you remain saved? You fail to keep all of God's commandments every single day! And by trying to justify yourself and your salvation by your works, you have placed yourself under a curse. (Gal. 3:10) All who rely on observing the law are under a curse, for it is written: “Cursed is everyone who does not continue to do everything written in the Book of the Law.” "The righteous will live by faith," not by works. But, law is not based on faith. It is based on works. (Clearly no one is justified before God by the law, because, again, “The righteous will live by faith.”--Gal. 3:11) All through the New Testament, it says a person is justified and saved simply by FAITH. Its talking about the old laws. The Old Laws could not bring life eternal. Are there any of Christ spiritual laws that we should live by ? Jesus said if you love me keep my commandments. You keeping the commandment shows your faith to God. So you are saved by faith as you quoted. Not just lip praise alone.
  20. If your point is to say people are arguing against baptism, nobody suggested that. I know I didn't. The question is whether or not you are completely saved before you are baptized? True. Baptism is important, because Jesus commanded it. But it has nothing to do with salvation. By being baptized, you are proclaiming your belief in front of witnesses. Basically - you're making a public stand for Christ. Where does it say you are doing it before others for that purpose of showing your faith. Baptism isn't for others its for you, because you just wrote that its a commandment. What if we disobey this commandment then, are we saved ? For unto whomsoever much is given, of him shall be much required: We can't judge ourselves with other people salvation - example: someone gets saved by believing in Jesus and the next minute they die. We are required to do what we are able to do because God judge our hearts in how we obey him. Other wise why do I need Jesus most Jews believe Like Abraham salvation, just believe in God. Did it work for Abraham ? So I think if you konw about baptism and its a commandment, you better get it done. Keeping the commandment also shows you love God. I haven't read through the entire thread, so I don't know what kind of responses you have had to this so far. The point was whether or not water baptism has a part in saving you? I am taking Tinky is saying that you don't have a multiple step process to complete salvation like repent plus water baptism = salvation, and if you die before you get baptized, you aren't completely saved so you would go to hell if you die. What I am taking it you are saying is after we are saved, we have to obey God's commandments to remain saved. Do I have that right? That is another matter altogether. I got saved before I was baptized in water, but was baptized after getting saved in obedience to the command. I do believe that baptism is an outward sign of what took place on the inside. It is a confession to others you are a Christian. Saying that is the purpose of baptism doesn't make it without importance. It just means that if you get saved today, but there is no opportunity to be baptised till the next baptism service a month from now, you are saved in the meantime. I think you must obey what you know to do by the commandments of God to stay saved. What kind of person would refuse the loving God ways after getting true salvation. Baptism saves people because you must be borned again . I don't believe baptism was made for a show - that is not what it was meant for. I don't think there was a crowd when Philip baptized the Enuch.
  21. 15 All their wickedness is in Gilgal: for there I hated them: for the wickedness of their doings I will drive them out of mine house, I will love them no more: all their princes are revolters. 16 Ephraim is smitten, their root is dried up, they shall bear no fruit: yea, though they bring forth, yet will I slay even the beloved fruit of their womb. 17 My God will cast them away, because they did not hearken unto him: and they shall be wanderers among the nations Hosea 9:15-17 (KJV) Does God's love change ? Perhaps you'll address please the rest of the post? Particularly the comment in green. Then we can get into that question in red. What do you think? 1. question: I do believe in Jesus and his doctrine(commandments) is the only way I also believe what Jesus says we must do. 2.question: Baptism is not for show, its for your birth - to be born again. I do believe Jesus said you must be born again to enter in to the kingdom. so did he change on that sometime later ? How do you think on that ? .
  22. I believe that if a person knows what God's will is they should try to follow his commandments. Out of love not out of duty. However, God doesn't love us less or more if we obey Him. God's love doesn't change would you agree? God's love doesn't depend on our actions or lack thereof? See passages below. Mal. 3:6 For I the Lord do not change; therefore you, O children of Jacob, are not consumed. James 1:17 Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, coming down from the Father of lights with whom there is no variation or shadow due to change. Heb. 13:8 Jesus Christ is the same yesterday and today and forever. 2 Tim. 2:13 If we are faithless, he remains faithful— for he cannot deny himself. Each person's walk with God is unique in the sense that God loves us right where we are. Some people are at varying degrees of understanding regarding God. Yet God is faithful and working in the lives of each of us. God is faithful to complete the work he started in us. (Phil 1:6 and 1 Thess. 5:24) Also 1 John 3:9 talks about habitual sinning. God is patient towards us. (2 Pet. 3:9) Phil. 1:6 And I am sure of this, that He who began a good work in you will bring it to completion at the day of Jesus Christ. 1 John 3:9 No one born of God makes a practice of sinning, for God's seed abides in him, and he cannot keep on sinning because he has been born of God. 2 Pet. 3:9 The Lord is not slow to fulfill his promise as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, not wishing that any should perish, but that all should reach repentance. 1 Thess. 5:23-24 23 Now may the God of peace himself sanctify you completely, and may your whole spirit and soul and body be kept blameless at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ. 24 He who calls you is faithful; he will surely do it. Underlined are you implying there is more than one salvation method? Is Jesus the only way? Curious. Personally, I think this comment in bold is a bit legalistic. Just my opinion. See this thread: You May Have Legalism (And Not Even Know It) In Your Life… Some people are saved and baptized years later. Some people are saved and baptized emmidiately. Baptism like circumcision is a matter of the heart and the attitude one takes. Baptism is just a step in following Jesus's example - it doesn't save or make one more holy in God's eyes. Good discussion. God bless, GE 15 All their wickedness is in Gilgal: for there I hated them: for the wickedness of their doings I will drive them out of mine house, I will love them no more: all their princes are revolters. 16 Ephraim is smitten, their root is dried up, they shall bear no fruit: yea, though they bring forth, yet will I slay even the beloved fruit of their womb. 17 My God will cast them away, because they did not hearken unto him: and they shall be wanderers among the nations Hosea 9:15-17 (KJV) Does God's love change ?
  23. 3 And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments. 4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. 5 But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him. 1 John 2:3-5 (KJV)
  24. So, some are saved with baptism, and some are saved without it? You need to stop contradicting yourself. What of those in the Bible that I posted that were saved without baptism, and indeed had the time to do it? Whom the Bible stated were saved the moment they believed? If baptism is required for salvation, as you claim, then it's required in every single case without exception. You can't cherry pick. cherry picking ?? look who is picking their salvation based on a last minute soul begging for hope. I know a person in my family that was going to turn to the Lord at the last moment before she died and then accept Jesus to be saved. Didn't want to serve Jesus now. Now was that the love for God or was that love for self. ? She knew better but chosen the cherry way. Those whom you quoted being saved in th OT - they all died - even believing did not save them form death but it did from eternal death, Hebrew 11 says they all died. Must got it all fixed after they resurrected in Matthew 27:52-53 - got their baptisms. Do you think you can go to heaven not loving God ? Sound to me you think living the commandments has no place in salvation at all . Without law there is no sin. Then there is no sin. Are we born free ? Was not that what the Satan did to Eve to make her free from God laws. Look what happen Abraham had faith but it was also proven for God to know if he believed. GENESIS 22 1 And it came to pass after these things, that God did tempt Abraham, and said unto him, Abraham: and he said, Behold, here I am . 2 And he said, Take now thy son, thine only son Isaac, whom thou lovest, and get thee into the land of Moriah; and offer him there for a burnt offering upon one of the mountains which I will tell thee of Tempt here mean testing 10 And Abraham stretched forth his hand, and took the knife to slay his son. 11 And the angel of the LORD called unto him out of heaven, and said, Abraham, Abraham: and he said, Here am I. 12 And he said, Lay not thine hand upon the lad, neither do thou any thing unto him: for now I know that thou fearest God, seeing thou hast not withheld thy son, thine only son from me. The test prove to God about Abraham belief in him. Just maybe all of us are proven for what we know and what we do with it. So if break the first commandment does it really matter ? Someone at the Church of Ephesus was guilty for losing their first love and the punishment didn't look good. A warning was given. Rev. 2
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