Bible_Gazer

I think also that they know Jesus very well and they are like him and they have the Father's name in their forehead. Nothing like those in the beast system. Its seem like the works they will do is help cleanup this world, first try by converting or Revelation 2:26-27 (KJV) 26 And he that overcometh, and keepeth my works unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations: 27 And he shall rule them with a rod of iron; as the vessels of a potter shall they be broken to shivers: even as I received of my Father. We see at the end of the finality(1,000 years) when they have accomplished their duty with Jesus, God calls it a quit, finally gets what he want out of humanity. Those who refuses to worship God will die. Whether there is one group of 144k or 2 different groups they are a special elect for to do a job that God will ordain. Revelation 3:21 (KJV) 21 To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne. Revelation 20:4 (KJV) 4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: Must be part of that rulership and reigning with Christ during that 1,000 to prepare for the Holy city to come down from Heaven . Rev.21 We all need to follow the Lamb.

Malachi 3:16-17 (KJV) 16 Then they that feared the LORD spake often one to another: and the LORD hearkened, and heard it, and a book of remembrance was written before him for them that feared the LORD, and that thought upon his name. 17 And they shall be mine, saith the LORD of hosts, in that day when I make up my jewels; and I will spare them, as a man spareth his own son that serveth him. What I read here is that they went into God's memory(book of remembrance) waiting for a resurrection someday. They were dead but not forgotten. Rev.20:4 is a group of born again saints which is my understanding is a first resurrection and is quickened from trespasses and sins by the Holy Ghost. Eph.2:1 -5 It may be showing here you must have a first resurrection to be part of this people that is ruling and reigning with Jesus. Rev.20:5 rest of the dead is the 2nd resurrection - first resurrection group is v.4 they don't die. You see we are not suppose to die if we are in Christ if we are born again and alive in him. Plenty of OT scriptures about saints. I guess you could call them OT worthies if that would help.

James 5:7-8 (KJV) 7 Be patient therefore, brethren, unto the coming of the Lord. Behold, the husbandman waiteth for the precious fruit of the earth, and hath long patience for it, until he receive the early and latter rain. 8 Be ye also patient; stablish your hearts: for the coming of the Lord draweth nigh. seem to be 2 harvest - could be said early rain church gathering and the latter rain church gathering . What about the in between time. Just throwing this in - Paul said that Jesus was not returning until after the falling away. Then Jesus would come for a gathering at a later time. This would make a separation in a time span. Personally think the falling away was the early church condition. Paul mentions trouble was coming, John in Rev. mention the troubles coming on the churches. Jesus said he would remove Ephesus church if they didn't repent. I heard one time or another that the 144,000 was a governmental number to do a job. In heaven and on earth. 2 separate groups. Rev.20 does mention those who rule and reign with Christ during the 1,000 year period. What would they be ruling about ? Revelation 2:26-27 (KJV) 26 And he that overcometh, and keepeth my works unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations: 27 And he shall rule them with a rod of iron; as the vessels of a potter shall they be broken to shivers: even as I received of my Father. Seem to be a special elect to do a special job with Jesus. Matthew 27 resurrected group seem to be a special calling. Otherwise that would be the general resurrection for all the OT saints that would most likely could have be in the millions resurrected and would over crowded Jerusalem. So it most likely very small group that got resurrected to be in the part of the firstfruit gathering. More food for thoughts ?

redeemed from the earth = looks like they are taken from the earth and now in the heavenly MT Zion Rev.14:1 - Heb.12:22, Gal.4:26 Rev.14:8 before the throne of God. the firstfruits = seem to be the elects group the made it first Follow the Lamb = surely these are Christians Sung a new song = Rev.5:8-9 this group sung a new song = the same son, Rev.15:1-4 this group sung a song. Must be the same group. The 144,000 seem to become Kings and Priest, a group of people redeemed from the Earth. Rev.5:10 King = authority Priest = handle the word of God Another thought If they are only Jews being the firstfruits, then could that group have came from the early church when it was mostly just the Jews for about 4 years before the Gentiles came in. Even tho it looks like 2 groups. The one is mix people the other is Jewish.

According to Hebrews 11 all of the OT saints died before Jesus came. They knew of the resurrection. Was it Martha that said Her brother would resurrect. As far as Moses and Elijah on the mount with Jesus, they were resurrected for a moment and talking to Jesus about his death and resurrection. Luke 9:30-31 (KJV) 30 And, behold, there talked with him two men, which were Moses and Elias: 31 Who appeared in glory, and spake of his decease which he should accomplish at Jerusalem. So they died again waiting for the resurrection, even Samuel was brought back to life for a moment but rested again. From what I see, no one can have eternal unless they except Jesus and be born again and become righteous in their living life. How can the OT saints get that, well they would have to be resurrected and get the teaching of the new testament life in Jesus, and then they must have a new heart. I think Matthew 27 the resurrected OT saints must been the elect and while living in the flesh body they attained completeness in Jesus, when the died they receive their new body in 2Cor.5. This time their soul didn't die like before. Before they resurrected they were in the Book of Remembrance, another word they were not forgotten like the heathen , but they died. Malachi 3:16-17 (KJV) 16 Then they that feared the LORD spake often one to another: and the LORD hearkened, and heard it, and a book of remembrance was written before him for them that feared the LORD, and that thought upon his name. 17 And they shall be mine, saith the LORD of hosts, in that day when I make up my jewels; and I will spare them, as a man spareth his own son that serveth him. Jesus was the first to die and resurrect unto eternal life, he was the firstfruit of this and other would follow after. 1 Corinthians 15:20 (KJV) 20 But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept. OT was a moonlight, just a reflection of the real light to come that it would bring life, and everyone has to come to that light to have life, that is Jesus Christ. Just some thoughts to share. How I see for now.

Well somebody resurrected in Matthew 27. Hebrews 11 talks about people coming short of the promise. In Malachi 3:16+17 These saints were put into the book of remembrance and in that day I will make up my Jewels(resurrection) I would say Matthew 27 saints came to get that promise and finish their course to be like Jesus in righteousness, then at sometime went to heaven after that. Abraham and Issac and Jacob was in the kingdom of heaven in the early church under the 12 Apostles teaching. They would had to be born again just like everybody else to make to heaven. How I see it at the moment.

1 John 2:3-5 (KJV) 3 And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments. 4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. 5 But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him. 1 John 3:4 (KJV) 4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law. 1 John 3:8 (KJV) 8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.

1 Corinthians 9:24-27 (KJV) 24 Know ye not that they which run in a race run all, but one receiveth the prize? So run, that ye may obtain. 25 And every man that striveth for the mastery is temperate in all things. Now they do it to obtain a corruptible crown; but we an incorruptible. 26 I therefore so run, not as uncertainly; so fight I, not as one that beateth the air: 27 But I keep under my body, and bring it into subjection: lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a castaway. Philippians 2:16 (KJV) Holding forth the word of life; that I may rejoice in the day of Christ, that I have not run in vain, neither laboured in vain. Philippians 3:14 (KJV) I press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus. 2 Timothy 4:7-8 (KJV) 7 I have fought a good fight, I have finished my course, I have kept the faith: 8 Henceforth there is laid up for me a crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous judge, shall give me at that day: and not to me only, but unto all them also that love his appearing. Hebrews 12:1 (KJV) 1 Wherefore seeing we also are compassed about with so great a cloud of witnesses, let us lay aside every weight, and the sin which doth so easily beset us, and let us run with patience the race that is set before us, James 1:12 (KJV) 12 Blessed is the man that endureth temptation: for when he is tried, he shall receive the crown of life, which the Lord hath promised to them that love him. Revelation 3:11 (KJV) 11 Behold, I come quickly: hold that fast which thou hast, that no man take thy crown.

So are all those who died under the law of Moses dead and not saved ? About Jesus Jesus was of the seed of Abraham and David, so he was human, in the likeness of sinful flesh. Some say he was tempted in all points as we are, so he must had a sin nature to be tempted. If the sin nature doctrine is true - Jesus was a spotted lamb.

Just thinking The topic is can a person stop sinning I have read its no, but when you get to heaven and have a new body, you no longer will sin because you won't have the sin nature body. Here is the thinking part. What cause the fallen angels to fall in their heavenly body ? So how will our heavenly body keep us from falling ?

Read this on the internet Christ died and rose so that we could conquer sin NOT tolerate it !

About willful sin. Written to the believers Hebrews 10:26 (KJV) 26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, Hebrews 6:4-6 (KJV) 4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, 5 And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, 6 If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame. This is dangerous, what if we are not willing to make an effort do that which right . If our faith brings grace, what if our faith becomes dead ? Is there any scriptures in the bible that show we can lose grace ? So it is best to repent and change. What if we repent and no intention to change, will God forgive us ?

If we don't remember what we were delivered from how can we praise him for that ? I do not think he will erase our memories. Thank you for your concern bro.

It was said But even Paul said he had not attained perfection but he pressed on to the high calling of Jesus. We will never be perfect as He is until we get to heaven. But Paul did make mentioned that someone was perfect. Phil.3:15 Let us therefore, as many as be perfect, be thus minded: and if in any thing ye be otherwise minded, God shall reveal even this unto you. Hebrews 13:20-21 (KJV) 20 Now the God of peace, that brought again from the dead our Lord Jesus, that great shepherd of the sheep, through the blood of the everlasting covenant, 21 Make you perfect in every good work to do his will, working in you that which is well pleasing in his sight, through Jesus Christ; to whom be glory for ever and ever. Amen. 1 Thessalonians 5:23 (KJV) 23 And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ. Seem like we need to be perfect(blameless) at the coming of our Lord. It Would take a miracle from God for us if we could become sinless in this life, it would really take the Almighty God's power to do this. Can he do it ? Woe ! Is Satan stronger tempting our flesh than God giving us the victory over the flesh ? huumm

Does sin and repent , sin and repent, sin and repent, sin and repent does it change us. Didn't Jesus come to fix the problem of sin and repent ? not just look the other way. What is sin ? Where does it come from ? Why does it happen ? Jesus said "What come from the heart defiles the man" Matthew 15:18-19 (KJV) 18 But those things which proceed out of the mouth come forth from the heart; and they defile the man. 19 For out of the heart proceed evil thoughts, murders, adulteries, fornications, thefts, false witness, blasphemies: Proverbs 23:7 (KJV) 7 For as he thinketh in his heart, so is he 2 Corinthians 7:1 (KJV) 1 Having therefore these promises, dearly beloved, let us cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit, perfecting holiness in the fear of God. James 4:8 (KJV) 8 Draw nigh to God, and he will draw nigh to you. Cleanse your hands, ye sinners; and purify your hearts, ye double minded. 1 John 1:9 (KJV) 9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. How does the cleansing work on our heart ? Ephesians 5:26 (KJV) 26 That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word, Forgiveness of our sins or washing our sin away doesn't change us . We are what we are until we are changed. Jesus can do that if we want to change. Matthew 5:8 (KJV) 8 Blessed are the pure in heart: for they shall see God.

How could God condemned some of his NT church people if they become not accountable for their sins. He chastise Heb. 12 and tell them to repent or else. Example Rev. 2 and 3

Was Paul talking about when he was the in flesh or in the spirit, read it carefully. The law was weak for the flesh. Did he say he was now in the spiritual in next chapter not in the flesh. So he was weak and in sin under the law before he found Jesus for his help to overcome sin. As for 1John you must keep asking for giveness. Jesus will keep washing your heart with his words so we will have a righteous heart that will stop you from sinning anymore against him.

Trying not to...That does not change anything about what the bible talk abou perfection or about overcoming the flesh. Sin is still sin and it doesn't change the death penalty. If we sin against God we are contrary to his spirit.

Those are sinful stuff that is not allowed in our life. Can't take that kind of stuff to heaven with us, from what I read in the bible.

Under the OT before Jesus came the OT saints had laws. OT Saints were charged for their own sins they committed. They had a choice to do right but they were weak in the flesh. No power in the laws to live above sin. Till Jesus came. They went to the grave because they came short of the promise, as mentioned in Hebrews 11. The death penalty was passed on same as Adam. We sin we die as Adam did. OT Saints had a resurrection coming for them. Adam didn't have a sin nature yet he broke the law of God because of his own free will desire. So can we now thru Jesus Christ control our desire in our heart ? If not, what did Jesus do that made it different from the OT saints, he gave us power so we can become perfect, the Mosaic Law couldn't do this. Heb. 10:1

How much sin can a person have and still make ? If the Lord is taking our heart to heaven and I am still a sinner , I will also be a sinner in heaven. How pure does a heart has to be before it goes to heaven ? So does all good sinners go to heaven ? Is God saying "oh do the best you can I will fix it up here" I thought that is why God sent Jesus to fix it when he came down here to help us get the victory over a sinful life. He also gave us power through the Holy Spirit to overcome. For most believers, sinners goes to heaven, because they never met anybody living above sin, so that is why it must be so.

And the resurrection of Israel - as a nation Ezek.37

Rev. 20 shows when Gog and Magog is, its close to the last resurrection at the close of the next 1,000 years, when ever that starts, when the Bride is reigning with Christ. You would think Israel is all converted by that time. Ezk. 36 Ezk. 37-38-39 Israel is not all converted yet, God said Israel will not pollute his name again. They are doing it now. God and Magog must be just be an allegory for the enemies of God. Since its a prophecy. I do think also there is two different advents of God and Magog, both are enemies of God and he uses them for his purpose of his plans.

Acts 10:44-48 44 While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word. 45 And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost. 46 For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God. Then answered Peter, 47 Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we? 48 And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days.

Yes Mark 16:15-16 15 And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. 16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned. Obeying is why you do it, and that is important for salvation.