BlessedByTheBest

http://debatelive.org/ I'm looking forward to this free live stream. Sign up so you don't miss it if you find this interesting. God bless.

God bless you Gary

beat me to it. although i would say, unbelief is THE sin. this is the source of the original lie, doubting God's Word. when we sin, we are essentially falling away from and denying the power of Christ to deliver us from sin; and thus denying his sacrifice and resurrection-victory-righteousness which is imputed to us for the purposes of overcoming. unbelief causes us to walk in our own strength, which is powerless against sin. God bless

2 hour-long videos, but worth the watch. I encourage the board scientists to comment! God bless. http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=nkwCl0ymTfg http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=hzzARVIYiwY

are we supposed to take it on FAITH that ALL the rest of your ridiculous claims are absolute truth as well? please read this before you get banned. No, I said there was only ONE absolute truth and that's DEATH, like religions all the rest is just fluff. Of course I'll get banned, anyone who speaks against Christianity here gets banned. actually, Christians won't see death, just rest until Christ returns to judge the wicked.. unfortunately, those professing to be wise only look forward to a cold grave. what a bleak outlook. oh, and you can have a civil discussion about peoples' beliefs without actually ridiculing the believers. just a suggestion. but i suppose you would only value such advice if you actually had anything worth discussing. Christians want to believe that they won't see death and I wish them all the luck in the world with that, however as we all know wanting and believing something does not make it true, (we would all win the lottery if it was true) reality is the killer of religions, wouldn't it be great if we could all live in our own little fantasy worlds. As for a bleak outlook, my grave won't be cold because I will be dead and know nothing about it, I thought I was being civil, you are obviously not used to having your beliefs questioned because of where you live and who you choose to mix with and I can understand that, Christians hate Atheists because Atheists remind them how fragile and feeble their beliefs really are. actually, I believe and I know, and don't need your luck but appreciate the sentiment. Heb 11:1 Now faith is the essence of things being hoped, the evidence of things not having been seen. the reality is that true Christianity is not a religion, but true fellowship with God. Walking and talking with my Creator is no fantasy just because you claim it to be. calling Christians gullible and peoples' faith laughable is civil? i wouldn't care to hear your rudeness. I don't hate Atheists, I actually pity them. they remind me of how twisted and feeble human intelligence can become devoid of any spiritual nourishment.

are we supposed to take it on FAITH that ALL the rest of your ridiculous claims are absolute truth as well? please read this before you get banned. No, I said there was only ONE absolute truth and that's DEATH, like religions all the rest is just fluff. Of course I'll get banned, anyone who speaks against Christianity here gets banned. actually, Christians won't see death, just rest until Christ returns to judge the wicked.. unfortunately, those professing to be wise only look forward to a cold grave. what a bleak outlook. oh, and you can have a civil discussion about peoples' beliefs without actually ridiculing the believers. just a suggestion. but i suppose you would only value such advice if you actually had anything worth discussing.

are we supposed to take it on FAITH that ALL the rest of your ridiculous claims are absolute truth as well? please read this before you get banned.

thanks for your time brother, i am edified as well in taking a closer look. God bless you.

I tried it. The first question asked if absolute truth exists, and the way I understood how they defined absolute truth makes Einstein's theory of Relativity disprove their notion of absolute truth as not everything is true for all people in all frames of reference. For example the twin paradox where the first twin takes a spaceship and flies it around the universe at high speeds then comes back to Earth. The first twin will experience time dilation (from our perspective) so to him the trip only takes a few years, but to us on Earth including the second twin the trip took much longer and possibly many lifetimes. So the notion that there is absolute truth that is inherently true for all people in all reference frames of time and space is false as I understand it. So I said that absolute truth does not exist, then for the next question the answers make a false dichotomy: either chose the negation of your previous answer, or say that 'absolute truth is false is absolutely true'. The second statement is an equivocation as I see it, since "absolute truth" in the first part of the statement has a specific definition (which the site gave in the first question) which I do not think corresponds to the second "absolute truth" in this statement, so both choices are false in my mind. But I didn't want to end this "proof" prematurely, so for my second go-round I just put in all the answers they wanted. I got to the end with the "proof" that God exists because without God you can't prove anything, and I was disappointed with the logic they were using after spending so much time propping up logic itself. I hope no one takes this "proof" too seriously. cool D-9! we haven't chatted in a while. i think i understand what you are saying.. "(Absolute Truth - True for all people at all times everywhere)" here is my take on it.. absolute truth must be universal. universal as in, it has always been and always will be. absolute truth transcends time. it is true simultaneously at all points, within and without time's confines. it cannot be affected by outside influence or observation. the truth never changed because it was not dependent upon either of the twins' perspective of it. to proclaim that truth is relative is a relative truth. our conscious reality itself is relative. the truth is(for lack of a better word) , in duality, absolute truth exists and it does not exist. both answers are right! lol this is because any concept of absolute truth we can attempt to describe is relative to our individual perceptions. in unity, absolute truth just is. unified with God through Jesus Christ, Christians "know" absolute truth as far as it can be known on this side of eternity. partaking of the fruit from the tree of knowledge, caused our fall from unity with God. because absoluteness is devoid of relativity, then only that which is infinite can be absolute. my brain hurts.. if you disagree with their definition, how would you word it? God bless.

I don't understand the question? Please elucidate or at the very least expound? The Topic is 'Proof that God exists', which everyone seems to agree with, I am asking, 'If there is proof that a God exists why are religions still called FAITHS?' I would also add that, 'if there was proof that a God existed there would be no Atheists'. Christians also don't seem to know what evidence is, they think everyone has their own evidence, evidence is only evidence if it can be seen to be evidence by everyone, feelings do not count as evidence. Religions are called 'faiths' because they are not backed by evidence, faith is required when there is no evidence. We only ever use faith where religion is concerned, we never use faith for anything else, faith is synonymous with religion. evidence of a Creator is plainly seen in creation so that man has no excuse. this alone should be proof enough to a prideful man bereft of an all-encompassing knowledge of the experience in which he is confined. on the contrary, it has been rightfully stated that it requires more faith to state that there is no evidence for God. faith is required because finite man cannot see infinite God and live, not because there is a lack of evidence. and faith is not restricted to religion. i have faith that you will respond to this post, but i have no evidence. since you cannot know that the sun will be shining tomorrow, you must have faith that it will be when you arise.

i understand. there is a difference in knowing, and knowing experientially. May God bless you.

The earthly high priest did not review any books (as far as I know). However, each person did come up in review before God on this day. "And ye shall do no work in that same day: for it is a day of atonement, to make an atonement for you before the LORD your God. For whatsoever soul it be that shall not be afflicted in that same day, he shall be cut off from among his people. And whatsoever soul it be that doeth any work in that same day, the same soul will I destroy from among his people." Lev 23:28-30 So while the high priest did not open a book, God did review each believer. yes, ON the Day of Atonement. the Final Day of Atonement which that OT Type pointed to. The same day the sins of the WORLD were judged. God's TOTAL Wrath was loosed upon His Son for ALL SINS. by faith in Christ's sacrifice, YOU have been judged INNOCENT. and you are just stretching it now. if God did the reviewing, then this was not a picture of our High Priest's ministration. This is correct. We are the temple of the Holy Ghost. However, the writer of Hebrews is clearly talking about the heavenly sanctuary and not our earthly body's. Notice what Hebrews says - "For Christ is not entered into the holy places made with hands, which are the figures of the true; but into heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of God for us." Hebrews 9:24 So....my question is according to Hebrews 9:24, is "heaven itself" us? Or is heaven itself....heaven itself? agreed, the heavens themselves. God bless

i would love to have been present to witness Jesus command Lazarus to rise from death. "Take away the stone... Lazarus, Come Forth!" whew... but by far....this was the most excellent miracle: John 20:28 And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God. John 20:29 Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed.

thanks for responding gray wolf. i agree. faith is indeed called for because, even when we think something to be true, there exists the possibility that it is false. http://www.proofthatgodexists.org/why-is-god-necessary.php so an absolute truth must logically exist, with or without my knowledge of it. considering my finite viewpoint, who am i to define it?

the books are kept because God requires payment for sin. where is there even a hint of an OT type where the High Priest is examining books in the Most holy place? well, of course. 2 John 1:9 Everyone transgressing and not abiding in the doctrine of Christ does not have God. The one abiding in the doctrine of Christ, this one has the Father and the Son. that is exactly what you are doing, because there is no judgement performed by the earthly High Priest. and i am not arguing against an anti-typical application. Christ's death fulfilled the slaying of the goat. He rose from the dead, ascended, and took His blood DIRECTLY to the mercy seat. the entire sanctuary service was based upon sacrifices, which have ceased, and thus the services have ceased. 1) like sin that's washed away 2) no, the sanctuary service typified Jesus. The prototype. The first-born among many brethren. a temple built with no hands. the Holy Spirit of God does abide in you if you are abiding in Christ, correct? 3) that is the heavenly sanctuary, where there is no longer goat-slaying. where did i deny a heavenly sanctuary exists?

its premise is the existence of absolute truth.

I found it led me to a point where I could not concede. It needed some 3rd options. like?

Example...Model...Ok...the name of the comparison doesn't concern me as much as our understanding of the comparision. I also use the word Example too. thank you for your sober response, and please forgive me if i have been out of line. but everything is in a name, and it very much affects our understanding of the comparison. there is a model, as in something to be followed in like manner and in varying scale. and then there is an example, which is more of an analogy, more of a simple use of concepts in order to convey that which cannot be fully understood from our limited viewpoint. i liken the sanctuary to a parable. there are prototypical imitations, and then there are shadowy suggestive representations. imo, it is a notable difference. Not exactly...the sanctuary not only forshadowed the coming of Christ, but it forshadowed what Christ would do when he came. This is very important. The earthly sanctuary service told us that when the Messiah would show up he would die for our sins. So the sanctuary showed us the work of Christ. This is the point that I've been trying to make. The sanctuary is ALL about Christ. I am not separating Christ from the sanctuary as you seem to believe. The sanctuary let's us know we needed the sacrificial lamb but we also need the High Priest. Both are important to our salvation and both are Christ alone. ok, but i am not separating Him from what He did and continues to accomplish either. of course the sanctuary, just as every example and analogy in scripture, depicts Him and His redemptive work of power. all i am saying is that it was a picture of His future work, and that His spilled blood fulfilled all these types and shadows. they were instituted for that purpose. "it is finished." we have of necessity a High Priest because there is only one mediator between God the Father and man. we do not have a High Priest because there is any further redemptive work to be done. agreed? Do you believe the atonement for sins was complete at the Cross? yes or no please. Again, I see your point...but I am not separating Christ from his work. If the sanctuary pointed to Christ in his death...then it also points to him after his death which is the ministration of the High Priest. But Christ being come an high priest of good things to come, by a greater and more perfect tabernacle, not made with hands, that is to say, not of this building; Hebrews 9:11 If the good things to come were just Christ...then this scripture would read... "But Christ being come a High Priest of 'Christ'...." Wouldn't you agree that the ministration of Christ is clearly being pointed out by the writer of Hebrews? neither am i. glad we cleared that up. but these are the good things to come spoken of: Heb 9:15 And because of this He is Mediator of a new covenant, so that, death having occurred for redemption of transgressions under the first covenant, those being called might receive the promise of the everlasting inheritance. Heb 9:16 For where a testament is, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator. Heb 9:17 For a testament is of force after men are dead: otherwise it is of no strength at all while the testator liveth. the sanctuary which spoke of and testified to the nature of His redemptive work, all pointed to the Cross. this is the focus of His ministration. the new unbreakable covenant which is between the Father and the Son. We are definitely chasing our tails here! Hahah! I asked you what's being cleansed...and you turn around and ask me what's it being cleansed of! Lol!!! That's my point. If the heavenly sanctuary needs to be purified (Heb 9:23), what else can it be purified from? SIN. I thought you understood my position on this. What I'm asking you is...if you disagree that sin needs to be purified from the sanctuary in heaven...then I'm asking you for your explanation of what needs to be purified. we're not chasing tails. as i said before you are magnifying the shadows of the substance. firstly, Heb 9:23 doesn't say the heavenly sanctuary. it says "the patterns of things in the heavens, but the heavenly things themselves". the temple is You. the sanctuary is You. the Holy Place is within You. The Most Holy place is Within You. sin needed cleansing in You. The Word(Jesus) had to circumcise your soul from your spirit, so that you could be reborn. (Heb 4:12) our spirits have become heavenly by virtue of His purifying Blood. we have been vivified in spirit, we are being sanctified in soul, and we will be glorified in body. Jesus Christ is the prototype. this is the powerful EXAMPLE , or analogy between the physical and the spiritual, earthly and heavenly, Moses and Christ, water and Holy Spirit, the blood of bulls/goats and the Blood of Christ. there is no sin in heavenly places. You're correct. There is only one judgment. You are talking about the exective judgment. I am talking about the reviewing of the names...this is a judgment too. When Jesus comes back, he will EXECUTE the sentence of judgment...but he will have come to the conculsion of saved and lost prior to his return. This is the judgment that happens in heaven prior to Christ return...so when he comes, the recipients of his reward will have already been determined And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be. Revelation 22:12 The determination of who is saved happens in heaven...then Christ comes to execute that judgment when he comes back. ...And Enoch also, the seventh from Adam, prophesied of these, saying, Behold, the Lord cometh with ten thousands of his saints, To execute judgment upon all, and to convince all that are ungodly among them of all their ungodly deeds which they have ungodly committed, and of all their hard speeches which ungodly sinners have spoken against him. Jude 15-16 there is no determination. your judgement was complete the moment you believed on Jesus Christ's finished work for your salvation. you will be rewarded in accordance with the measure you have continued believing, tarrying, obeying, abiding in Him, and doing His will. your name cannot be blotted out of the book of life without a willful and complete apostasy in disbelief. in fact, God's sovereignty demands that some habitual sinning believers be delivered to satan for destruction of the flesh, so that the spirit may be saved.(1 Cor 5) besides, He is Alpha and Omega, there is no determination. eternity is timeless. Rev 22:13 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last. Jesus knew from the foundations of creation who He would gift with access to the Tree of Life. He needs not examine His book library. If you are asking me for a scripture that says "Christ is performing a judgment in heaven right now" then we can close this debate, because that scripture doesn't exist. But oftentimes in scripture we don't have a "thou shalt not" for everything. In order to prove the on going judgment, I am taking the work of the High Priest on the typical day of atonement and taking the Bible at it's Word that there's another High Priest that entered the sanctuary and that it was cleansed. If you study the typical Day of Atonement, you will discover it was a day of judgment too. Also on the tenth day of this seventh month there shall be a day of atonement: it shall be an holy convocation unto you; and ye shall afflict your souls, and offer an offering made by fire unto the LORD...For whatsoever soul it be that shall not be afflicted in that same day, he shall be cut off from among his people. Lev 23:27,29 There is a cut off before Christ comes back too! He that is unjust, let him be unjust still: and he which is filthy, let him be filthy still: and he that is righteous, let him be righteous still: and he that is holy, let him be holy still. Rev 22:11 The scripture that I have already given you for the judgment was Revelation 14:7 - "Saying with a loud voice, Fear God, and give glory to him; for the hour of his judgment is come:..." You simply don't agree because you believe the Gospel is still being preached after Christ comes back. and if you further study the Day Atonement you will discover that for the elect, it and the judgement ceased at the Cross. God bless.

Now remember, my question was not is the earthly sanctuary a literal model of the heavenly sanctuary. I asked was it a model. Think of it like a model airplane...of course a model airplane cannot fly like a real one...but there are major aspects of a model airplane that looks just like a real airplane. This is the relation of the typical sanctuary and the anti-typical sanctuary. For example... Both the earthly and heavenly sanctuarys have an ark The tabernacle of the congregation, and the ark of the testimony, and the mercy seat that is thereupon, and all the furniture of the tabernacle. Exodus 31:7 And the temple of God was opened in heaven, and there was seen in his temple the ark of his testament...: Rev 11:19 Both the earthly and heavenly sanctuarys had a golden altars And he put the golden altar in the tent of the congregation before the vail: Exodus 40:26 And another angel came and stood at the altar, having a golden censer; and there was given unto him much incense, that he should offer it with the prayers of all saints upon the golden altar which was before the throne. Rev 8:3 Both sanctuarys had covering cherubs And the cherubims shall stretch forth their wings on high, covering the mercy seat with their wings, and their faces shall look one to another; toward the mercy seat shall the faces of the cherubims be. Exodus 25:20 Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth...Ezekiel 28:14 (Lucifer was one of the cherubs that covered the ark) no, not even just a model. it is simply an Example, a suggestive representation. this Example is used to create a framework, or a structure, in which God foreshadowed something or someone yet to come.(The Messiah) THAT was it's purpose. NOT to represent the heavenlies. we are in kindergarten, and God even created the toothpicks, glue, and paper mache for us to play with and learn in the sandbox. God does not dwell in temples made with hands, and the heavens cannot contain Him. BBB, If you think I am magnifying the shadow over the substance...than I have not done a good job making my position clear. My point is that the shadow gives us understanding of what the substance is. my point is that the shadows point to Jesus Christ, not a model of the heavens. So we're not chasing our tales here...my premise is not confessed or unconfessed sins. My premise is that the earthy sanctuary was cleansed once a year on the Day of Atonement. This Day of Atonement was also anti-typical in nature thus the writer of Hebrews is making it known that there is a heavenly Day of Atonement. The earthly sanctuary needed cleansing from the uncleaness of Israel And he shall sprinkle of the blood upon it with his finger seven times, and cleanse it, and hallow it from the uncleanness of the children of Israel. Lev 16:19 The heavenly sanctuary will also be cleansed It was therefore necessary that the patterns of things in the heavens should be purified with these; but the heavenly things themselves with better sacrifices than these. Hebrews 9:23 A very simple question is why would the heavenly sanctuary need to be cleansed just like the earthly? --------- what do you mean "will be cleansed"? besides the record of sin, there is no sin in heaven. all of which will be burned up and newly created, by the way. what exactly does it need to be cleansed of??? that's the even simpler question. it is interesting that when this doctrine begins to falls apart scripturally, it is the moment you are forced to deviate from the so-called model. i also see you have no intentions of addressing Christ's more excellent ministry as a High Priest of a living and superior Order. the atonement has already been made, "it is finished". there will be only one judgement. show me in scriptures where it plainly says there is an "ongoing judgement" by our High Priest Jesus Christ. i am still waiting. if you cannot, then this doctrine is extra-biblical.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=ZY_0-3BO3r8

i would just like to apologize to the OP for slightly hijacking this topic..some of what we speak of is still pertinent though. but sure. in Rev 14 i see a collective vision of celebration where Christ is united with the 144,000 Jews taken from the earth shortly after the implementation of the mark of the beast. Dan 12:11 And from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up, there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days. Dan 12:12 Blessed is he that waiteth, and cometh to the thousand three hundred and five and thirty days. it also testifies of the coming destruction of Babylon, and God's wrath which is to come upon those who have taken the mark and worshiped the beast.(bowl judgements) --------- 1) no. to say it was a literal model of the heavenly sanctuary is extra-biblical. besides, our minds can't possibly grasp heavenly things. the sanctuary is, among many things, a conceptual aid that demonstrates God's immutable love/plan of salvation for sinners. any attempt to magnify the bare shadows of the substance which culminated at the Cross, detracts from the meaning and purpose of their institution. but most importantly, it attempts to discount the Finished work of Jesus Christ. 2) of course. Psalm 110:4 The LORD hath sworn, and will not repent, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchizedek. (Not the Aaronic order) 3) which brings us to your 3rd question. the High Priest (of the Aaronic order) would of necessity perform various works in order to free the people and the sanctuary from sin. we need not get into the details. 4) and so being that Christ is a High Priest after the order of Melchizedek, i can assure you he isn't cleansing the "heavenly sanctuary" because therein is no sin. that is inadvertent blasphemy. confessed sin defiles nothing. please show me in scripture where the confession of sins defiled the earthly sanctuary, as opposed to the actual sinning. Jesus Christ's once and for all atonement for sins consummates all duties of His Priestly ministry perpetually. He is forever interceding for the saints. read all of this, prayerfully: Heb 7:11 If therefore perfection were by the Levitical priesthood, (for under it the people received the law,) what further need was there that another priest should rise after the order of Melchisedec, and not be called after the order of Aaron? Heb 7:12 For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law. Heb 7:13 For he of whom these things are spoken pertaineth to another tribe, of which no man gave attendance at the altar. Heb 7:14 For it is evident that our Lord sprang out of Juda; of which tribe Moses spake nothing concerning priesthood. Heb 7:15 And it is yet far more evident: for that after the similitude of Melchisedec there ariseth another priest, Heb 7:16 Who is made, not after the law of a carnal commandment, but after the power of an endless life. Heb 7:17 For he testifieth, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec. Heb 7:18 For there is verily a disannulling of the commandment going before for the weakness and unprofitableness thereof. Heb 7:19 For the law made nothing perfect, but the bringing in of a better hope did; by the which we draw nigh unto God. Heb 7:20 And inasmuch as not without an oath he was made priest: Heb 7:21 (For those priests were made without an oath; but this with an oath by him that said unto him, The Lord sware and will not repent, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec:) Heb 7:22 By so much was Jesus made a surety of a better testament. Heb 7:23 And they truly were many priests, because they were not suffered to continue by reason of death: Heb 7:24 But this man, because he continueth ever, hath an unchangeable priesthood. Heb 7:25 Wherefore he is able also to save them to the uttermost that come unto God by him, seeing he ever liveth to make intercession for them. Heb 7:26 For such an high priest became us, who is holy, harmless, undefiled, separate from sinners, and made higher than the heavens; Heb 7:27 Who needeth not daily, as those high priests, to offer up sacrifice, first for his own sins, and then for the people's: for this he did once, when he offered up himself. Heb 7:28 For the law maketh men high priests which have infirmity; but the word of the oath, which was since the law, maketh the Son, who is consecrated for evermore. ----------------- Heb 9:24 For Christ is not entered into the holy places made with hands, which are the figures of the true; but into heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of God for us: Heb 9:25 Nor yet that he should offer himself often, as the high priest entereth into the holy place every year with blood of others; Heb 9:26 For then must he often have suffered since the foundation of the world: but now once in the end of the world hath he appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself. Heb 9:27 And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment: Heb 9:28 So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation. ---------------- Heb 10:1 For the law having a shadow of good things to come, and not the very image of the things, can never with those sacrifices which they offered year by year continually make the comers thereunto perfect. Heb 10:2 For then would they not have ceased to be offered? because that the worshippers once purged should have had no more conscience of sins. Heb 10:3 But in those sacrifices there is a remembrance again made of sins every year. Heb 10:4 For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and of goats should take away sins. Heb 10:5 Wherefore when he cometh into the world, he saith, Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not, but a body hast thou prepared me: Heb 10:6 In burnt offerings and sacrifices for sin thou hast had no pleasure. Heb 10:7 Then said I, Lo, I come (in the volume of the book it is written of me,) to do thy will, O God. Heb 10:8 Above when he said, Sacrifice and offering and burnt offerings and offering for sin thou wouldest not, neither hadst pleasure therein; which are offered by the law; Heb 10:9 Then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second. Heb 10:10 By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all. Heb 10:11 And every priest standeth daily ministering and offering oftentimes the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins: Heb 10:12 But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God; Heb 10:13 From henceforth expecting till his enemies be made his footstool. Heb 10:14 For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified. Heb 10:15 Whereof the Holy Ghost also is a witness to us: for after that he had said before, Heb 10:16 This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them; Heb 10:17 And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more. Heb 10:18 Now where remission of these is, there is no more offering for sin.

Yea....I don't think God has two methods for the forgiveness of sin. So if repentance is only for the Jews, then what was Christ talking about here? "And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem." Luke 24:47 neither do i. but my point is that the payment for transgressions of the law is only made once. would you agree that he who is born again is dead to sin? Heb 6:4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, Heb 6:5 And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, Heb 6:6 If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame. Huh? I'm not sure what you are talking about. I copied the statement from your 3:40 pm post on yesterday. Here it is in it's full: "i am aware that the book isn't entirely chronological. but yes, Revelation 14 is obviously describing Post 2nd Coming." I understand that verses 1-5 are talking about the people of God post second coming, but verses 6 says an angel comes to preach the everlasting gospel. Why is the gospel being preached after the second coming? Again, the gospel is for these days, not post second coming...this is the judgment that is happening right now. i suppose you missed it.... so i'll show you the post again. please read carefully so this discussion is fruitful. i did not say post 2nd coming. please understand i am not post-trib, so perhaps this is the source of the confusion. when i say post-1st resurrection, i mean the catching up of the saints prior to the trumpet plagues. 1) But the very next scripture says - As concerning the rest of the beasts, they had their dominion taken away: yet their lives were prolonged for a season and time. Dan 7:12 If this is the executive judgment, why are the beasts lives prolonged for a season? 2) Now, if Christ was our sacrifice (which I believe). Why is he now called our high priest? "Seeing then that we have a great high priest, that is passed into the heavens, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold fast ourprofession." Hebrews 4:14 Does the High Priest not serve a role in the sanctuary service? Obviously Christ is the sacrifice and the High Priest. But if you claim that Christ is not performing any duties in heaven...why is called the High Priest still? This is not an empty title. We see in the Old Testament Sanctuary that AFTER the sacrifice, the High Priest went into the sanctuary with blood. "Now when these things were thus ordained, the priests went always into the first tabernacle, accomplishing the service of God. But into the second went the high priest alone once every year, not without blood, which he offered for himself, and for the errors of the people:" Hebrews 9:6-7 But the Bible says this entrance into the sanctuary was not the real entrance...it was only a model of the true heavenly High Priest entering the sanctuary The Holy Ghost this signifying, that the way into the holiest of all was not YET made manifest, while as the first tabernacle was yet standing: Hebrews 9:8 So then did Christ enter the sanctuary just like the High Priest in the earthly did? Yes "Neither by the blood of goats and calves, but by his own blood he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us." Hebrews 912 Now, there was a cleansing of the Old Testament Sanctuary "And he shall sprinkle of the blood upon it with his finger seven times, and cleanse it, and hallow it from the uncleanness of the children of Israel." Lev 16:19 Well, then if the Old Testament Sanctuary was cleansed in the typical service, then what about the anti typical? "It was therefore necessary that the patterns of things in the heavens should be purified with these; but the heavenly things themselves with better sacrifices than these." Hebrews 9:23 Why would it be necessary that heavenly things are purified? This is the work of the High Priest. 1) i believe verse 12 refers to satan losing his authority and being locked away in the Abyss, just as the beast and false prophet are cast into fire (Rev. 19) 2) yes, Christ is the slain Lamb which intercedes for the saints. thanks for your insights, but i am still waiting for you to support the claim that there is judgement involved in His duties.

While I respect your position, but I disagree. Repentance is part of the removal of our sin. The Bible is clear on this. Acts 2:38 says - "Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost." Also, the Bible says - "Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord." Acts 3:19 the verses you quote refer to an initial conversion of the Jews who crucified their Messiah. this repentance is of one whose spirit has not yet been vivified through the new birth, not the born-again new creature in which all things have become new. Obvious? I'm not so sure. The messages of the 3 angels of Revelation 14 is a message for today. The everlasting gospel no longer needs to be preached to a world of people at the second coming. They're fates are already sealed. Also, later on in that chapter it says - "And I heard a voice from heaven saying unto me, Write, Blessed are the dead which die in the Lord from henceforth: Yea, saith the Spirit, that they may rest from their labours; and their works do follow them." Revelation 14:13...this is not language that tells me that the world has ended and Christ has returned, these are message for the last days. The Bible says - "And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come." Matthew 24:14. If your interpretation of Revelation 14 is correct, it sounds like the end comes, and then the gospel is preached. typo. i repeated your misquote of my statement. this is what i originally stated which you misquoted and i copied. "six verses prior to this(Rev 14:1), we clearly see the Lamb of God and His Bride after the 1st resurrection" If there is no judgement in the heavenly sanctuary, then what is happening in Daniels vision? "I beheld till the thrones were cast down, and the Ancient of days did sit, whose garment was white as snow, and the hair of his head like the pure wool: his throne was like the fiery flame, and his wheels as burning fire. A fiery stream issued and came forth from before him: thousand thousands ministered unto him, and ten thousand times ten thousand stood before him: the judgment was set, and the books were opened." Daniel 7:9-10 looks like the angels ready to execute God's judgements.... on the wicked, not the righteous: Dan 7:11 I beheld then because of the voice of the great words which the horn spake: I beheld even till the beast was slain, and his body destroyed, and given to the burning flame. but our sins have been placed upon Jesus Christ. we have already been judged and acquitted, because the moment you believed on Christ you crossed over from death to life. John 5:24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.

as an aside, if you are familiar with the Jewish sanctuary customs, then you also know that Christ's ministry is not governed after the same pattern as the Levitical priesthood. in fact, upon His crucifixion the Levitical priesthood ended. (Hebrews 7)

Not that this judgment impedes Christ, but it follows the pattern of the earthly sanctuary. The high priest still had a work to perform after the sacrifice, which Christ still is performing a work in us after his sacrifice. This is the judgment, removing our sins when we repent. when you sin, and repent, God is already saying, "What sin? I only see my Son." Christ's blood is forever sprinkled upon the mercy seat. Christ's atonement was made but once, and eternally. repentance is part of the process of our sanctification, and has no bearing on the removal of our sins. Rom 6:6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin. Rom 6:7 For he that is dead is freed from sin. Rom 6:8 Now if we be dead with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with him: Rom 6:9 Knowing that Christ being raised from the dead dieth no more; death hath no more dominion over him. Rom 6:10 For in that he died, he died unto sin once: but in that he liveth, he liveth unto God. Rom 6:11 Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord. there is no judgement in the heavenly sanctuary because my and your judgement was finished at the Cross. to say otherwise is heresy, unless one believes that salvation comes by anything other than grace through faith. your sins are already blotted out, as if they never existed, as far as the east is from the west, by faith in Jesus Christ.