*Zion*

This is brilliant! Thanks, brother

And so you are calling us all liars now? Did you really think we were treating the topic as a hypothetical question? Obviously it is an argumentative exercise for you. If you feel so anxious to have the last word then have it. I will not entertain you any further, as I have not found this discussion edifying to say the very least. If it doesn't build the body of Christ, then it's usually a waste of time. I am not usually this dismissive, but I have no problem dismissing the error that the Word of God is not perfect in ANY way. Be blessed.

Many times now he has stated he will not listen anymore to what we say

It is perfectly sound. You are deliberately being argumentative.

And you put the burden of convincing you otherwise because....? You won't even listen to what we say so what's the point?

I have always found this verse interesting: Matthew 24:22 And if those days [of tribulation] had not been cut short, no human life would be saved; but for the sake of the elect (God’s chosen ones) those days will be shortened.

I have always found this verse interesting: Matthew 24:22 And if those days [of tribulation] had not been cut short, no human life would be saved; but for the sake of the elect (God’s chosen ones) those days will be shortened.

And what, brilliant as it is, has that to do with the discussion at hand, and or what you have gleaned of it so far?

You can call it an argument if you want. I guess you do mean to silence us after all.

You silence us by your blanket statements and refusal to discuss the matter further. You have an interrogative technique, claiming to seek to learn from others opinions and you won't even address what we put before you. It's up to you, but call the situation what it is. It's not really about learning at all, is it?

Not even scripture will change your mind?

John 1 1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 The same was in the beginning with God. 3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made. 4 In him was life; and the life was the light of men. 5 And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not. John is talking about Jesus. Isaiah 55:11 11 So shall my word be that goeth forth out of my mouth: it shall not return unto me void, but it shall accomplish that which I please, and it shall prosper in the thing whereto I sent it. God, in the book of Isaiah, is talking about Jesus' coming, the reason for which He was sent to us. What about these words, that Luke wrote in the book of Acts?: Acts 13:44-49 44 And the next sabbath day came almost the whole city together to hear the word of God. 45 But when the Jews saw the multitudes, they were filled with envy, and spake against those things which were spoken by Paul, contradicting and blaspheming. 46 Then Paul and Barnabas waxed bold, and said, It was necessary that the word of God should first have been spoken to you: but seeing ye put it from you, and judge yourselves unworthy of everlasting life, lo, we turn to the Gentiles. 47 For so hath the Lord commanded us, saying, I have set thee to be a light of the Gentiles, that thou shouldest be for salvation unto the ends of the earth. 48 And when the Gentiles heard this, they were glad, and glorified the word of the Lord: and as many as were ordained to eternal life believed. 49 And the word of the Lord was published throughout all the region. If you are so happy to learn from opinion, you must be ecstatic that we have presented the Word of God before you. If you only want to improve, then take what is presented before you, consider it with sober reasoning, and make a reply that satisfies the question put before you. Unless you simply wanted to start an argument in order to pit yourself against others in order to compete with them, somehow. The Word of God is not a sport. We should not take Him lightly at all. Take care, and be blessed.

I truly believe that the use of the term 'wolf' is because they are agents of the enemy, deliberately trying to divide the church by sowing deceit and disunity. Nothing accidental or innocent about them, they have a definite motive and agenda. That's my take.

So then how are they to tackle something that seems to hang around their family? They may not even be affected by it, but are watching loved ones go through it. They may be saved, love the Lord, committed to Him, and still struggle with it. Thoughts?

When I leave the shop (grocery store, I guess) I always tell the cashier to be well, and 'God bless you'. It's always unexpected. No one wants to smile, they just want you to rush out of the shop a quickly as possible. The person serving me always smiles, and sometimes I get a thank you' or 'you too'. Little things matter, I believe

Matthew 5:30 If your right hand makes you stumble and leads you to sin, cut it off and throw it away [that is, remove yourself from the source of temptation]; for it is better for you to lose one of the parts of your body than for your whole body to go into hell. Romans 9:19-20 19 You will say to me then, “Why does He still blame me [for sinning]? For who [including myself] has [ever] resisted His will and purpose?” 20 On the contrary, who are you, O man, who answers [arrogantly] back to God and dares to defy Him? Will the thing which is formed say to him who formed it, “Why have you made me like this?”

Someone once told me that we have been saved, we are being saved, and we shall be saved. I do think there are scriptures to support this, but I haven't dug them all out, as it were. Maybe that's part of the answer?

I feel your earnestness, Flowersun Honestly, I feel like we are looking at the war between the flesh and the Spirit. This truth in itself shows us that we have to make a choice between one or the other; simply because narrow is the way, and small is the gate that leads to Life. These verses come to mind: Luke 3:8 Bring forth therefore fruits worthy of repentance, and begin not to say within yourselves, We have Abraham to our father: for I say unto you, That God is able of these stones to raise up children unto Abraham. For me this verse goes hand in hand with this one: Romans 6:15 What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid. One thing that grace will produce in us is the fruit of repentance, knowing that we ourselves are not worthy in our own right to be called children of God, but were once all sinners. John 1:12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: We are NOT held hostage. We are GIVEN THE POWER to become His sons! Hallelujah! That strongly implies a choice, which is consistent with God honouring our free will. Romans 8:1-2 8 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. 2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death. We are sons because we are led of His Spirit, submitting both our spirits and our flesh to the Holy Spirit. BUT it is called a war for a reason. God has already overcome on our behalf, but we have been given the job of subduing our own flesh - not by ourselves, that would be impossible - but in the power and the leading of the Holy spirit. We are told to crucify our flesh, and we can do it by God's power, but we don't always want to. In fact, how frequently do we want to? The more we grow in God, the less of a fight we'll get from the flesh. It depends on the stage we are in in our respective walks with God, which is strengthened not by years of going to church, but by personal willingness of submission and obedience to God. So when we get to a certain point, and look back at all that God has taken us through, rescued us from, blessed us with, opened our eyes to, we may very well ask: why would anyone ever turn their back on the Lord? He certainly hasn't turned His back on us. But it happens. I've seen it happen. Some people, I have seen come back to Him, some I have not. It is very sad. I have seen pastors fall away, my friend. People I thought towers of the faith. God's grace and mercy will be there, if they truly repent and seek Him once again. We can pray for the, of course. And it's shakings like these that may do the trick. God can use anything. But ultimately it's their decision to make.

Bless you, everyone . Exodus 20:5 Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the Lord thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me; Exodus 34:7 Keeping mercy for thousands, forgiving iniquity and transgression and sin, and that will by no means clear the guilty; visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children, and upon the children's children, unto the third and to the fourth generation. Numbers 14:18 The Lord is longsuffering, and of great mercy, forgiving iniquity and transgression, and by no means clearing the guilty, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation. Jesus came not to do away with the law, but to fulfil it. What does this then mean when dealing with generational curses? Can people be subject to generation strongholds and controlling spirits? Are these judgements/curses automatically broken once one is saved by grace through faith in Christ, or must we deal with them after coming to Him? What say ye?

God bless you, ohso. I feel your pain It's hard when I see a lot of Christians around me seemingly happy to sow seeds of division. But the Lord said the world will know we are His because of the love we have for one another, not the need to feed our egos. We are strong, especially against the enemy when we are united - and that is why our enemy seeks to divide us. What MiraculousFaith and Other One have stated here are crucial to all our walks with the Lord. We need to grow in Him and His Word and His Spirit. Whatever is accomplished, it is not by might, nor by power, but by His Spirit, as He says. We also do need each other, which is why we should seek to encourage and build one another up in the most holy faith. My advise would be to steer clear of those Christians who just seem to want to argue all the time, until you feel strong enough and equipped enough to deal with them. They may want to stir up strife, or they may simply seek validation, but to a weak believer they may prove detrimental. You are not weak, you are strong in the Lord. We are all stronger than we feel, because greater is He who is in us than he who is in the world. Being able to walk in that knowledge is where faith comes in. We all trigger the enemy just by speaking the truth of God. He is a defeated foe, we already have victory in Christ Jesus, won for us on the cross of Calvary. Take heart, ohso. God will never leave us or forsake us, even if others do. Be blessed!

Brother, don't be condescending. I think, yet again, i shall just have to agree to disagree. Be blessed

LOL you are the second one on this thread to call me brother when I am in fact a sister! Don't worry about it, Flowersun, we all digress from time to time, we all have points to prove sometimes, but we don't have to get all snooty-booty about it, lol. I don't think you've been that way. I hope I haven't been. I guess this thread has been a bit of shaky ground, eh? You pray for me too, sister; and let's help each other cling to God, that we may remain in Him

Let's keep the video posting to the video forum, as instructed. Don't want to get anyone in trouble here.

Revelation 22:19 And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book. Note that God is not twisting arms. He's not enticing men to sin. It is man's choice: James 1:13 Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man: Bless you, Wesley, be at complete peace in your life

I forgive you - I have to because I have made the same mistake with others