iamlamad

Just who is Revelation's "Mystery Babylon" in your thinking?

You are still missing it. 17 Then we, the living ones who remain [on the earth], shall simultaneously be caught up along with [the resurrected dead] in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air; and so always (through the eternity of the eternities) we shall be with the Lord! (AmpC) We the living ones: have not passed yet. Heart still pumping. "shall simultaneously be caught up along with [the resurrected dead] in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air." Is that clear enough? The living will be caught up WITH THE DEAD who were raised first. There may be only microseconds between the dead and the living. Do other translations agree? shall together with them be caught up in the clouds (ASV) shall be caught up together with them in the clouds (BRG) will be caught up together with them in the clouds (CSB) will be taken up into the clouds together with them (CEV) will be gathered up with those who have died (ERV) I could repeat something the same or very similar many more times. Who is "them" that the living are caught up with? The amplified put it best: The rusurrected dead. We are all caught up to Jesus together from just above the ground (30, 40, 100 feet?) up to where Jesus is. "Together" means the resurrected dead who were raised first, to those who are alive and are changed: TOGETHER we are caught up to Jesus. IF there is going to be much time at all between their resurrection and our being caught up, it will be measured in split seconds, seconds or minutes. My guess is, it will all be done at light speed, so all done in less that one second. This is only my opinion. I think you need to study this again.

Hebrews Chapter 6 is also true.

People get "sealed" by an act of their own will. (Whosoever will may come.) Does it not make sense that someone can LEAVE by an act of their own will? The Hebrew's 6 verse is talking about a mature Christian. I agree with you about baby Christians. God will not let go of them. If a mature saint chooses to get out from under the umbrella of Jesus's blood by an act of their own will (the same way they got in) (meaning, they no longer WANT to spend their eternity in heaven), I believe the Hebrew passage fits: God will let them go. Here is a conundrum: God is clear that He cannot and will not allow a thief into heaven. What is a born again person has a lifestyle of stealing? Will God go against His word and allow them in? Or will He stick with His written word? What if that thief just stole something, and then died instantly in a car wreck? They had no time to repent, and it was not their habit to repent anyway? Here is another conundrum: suppose a born again pastor got slapped by His wife, and got angry with her, jumped into his mercedes and sped off, lost control of his car, crashed and died? While he was driving, he was planning on how to get even, so repentance was NOT on his mind. (This really happened!) What is God to do? The Word is very clear that if we won't forgive, then HE won't forgive. What if a pastor was caught in an affair, and His wife refused to forgive....both being born again and sealed with the Holy Spirit. On the 2nd or 3rd day after, she got a gun and killed herself, still with unforgiveness. (This really happened.) God had to send her to hell, because of her unforgiveness. There are almost always exceptions to every story.

I'm going to stick close to what Paul wrote: ...the dead in Christ shall rise first: Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds... Then WHEN? I think the answer is obvious: it is immediately. The dead fly up into the air, then those alive and in Christ fly up into the air, and "together" we are caught up to meet Jesus. The point? The dead in Christ are not going to be hanging around in the air waiting for days of those who are alive to be caught up.

Sorry, but it is impossible to fall away when you have never arrived. Do you really think God would force someone to live with Him when they don't WANT to ?

Every scripture must be taken in light of every other. Of course no one can come unless they are drawn by the Holy Spirit. A very short sermon: Mark 8:34 And when he had called the people unto him with his disciples also, he said unto them, Whosoever will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me. God wills EVERYONE to come. He does not one to perish. There is a flip side to this verse: whosoever won't come, won't get what Jesus offers: eternal life.

Heb. 6:4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, 5 And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, 6 If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame. I did not write this.

I grew up with one older brother that was baptist, and another that was Wesleyan - so each was on opposite sides of this argument. It took me many years to sort it out, but now I have it: God would NEVER force someone to live in heaven with Him of they decide they don't WANT to. We get born again by an act of our will. But also by an act of our will, we can CHOOSE to leave. It is as simple as that. A well known preacher once had a vision. He saw a married couple that he knew. He saw a demon keep sitting on the woman's shoulder whispering to her, "you're very beautiful. You are wasting your life here in this church. You are a great singer. I can make you rich! Blah blah blah." As the preacher watched in the vision, the woman began to desire what the demon was offering. He saw the demon move inside the woman. God then spoke in the vision and said that before she was being oppressed, but now she was obsessed. The preacher ask God if He wanted him to cast out the demon. God said, just watch. As the preacher kept watching the vision, the woman left her husband, and got into sin. But her conscience was bothering her. That was the Holy Spirit trying to woo her back. Finally one day she screamed at God and said, "leave me alone!" He saw that the demon went from her soul into her spirit. God said, now she is not obsessed, she is now possessed. Then God said she was lost forever. The preacher said that he would not believe this unless God could prove it with scripture. God took him to Hebrews 6. God explained, if she had been being obsessed by the demon at the moment she screamed for God to leave her alone, HE, God, would have forgiven her. But God said, she was not being oppressed by the demon at that moment. It was ALL HER decision. Read the first few verses of Hebrews 6. IF they turn away....what happens then?

Hebrews 9:28 So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation. Many verses have an unwritten "flip side." This verse tells us for His second coming, that He is coming for those looking for Him. It leaves unsaid what will happen to those NOT looking for Him or looking for His coming. 14 times (if I counted right) He told us to WATCH for His coming. Question: What if someone is confused in doctrine and is watching for the Antichrist Beast to come first? I hope you right.

You write myths.

17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. 18 Wherefore comfort one another with these words. 1 But of the times and the seasons, brethren, ye have no need that I write unto you. 2 For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night. Which did Paul write first: the rapture or the Day of the Lord? 9 For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ, Which did Paul write first: the rapture or wrath? Is the great crowd in Revelation chapter 7 written before chapter 19, or after chapter 19 (Christ's coming to Armageddon.)

OSAS argument has to do with whether or not one is always born again, of after being born again they can somehow become NOT born again. This is a different subject. We are not talking about whether or not someone is or will remain born again. We are talking about whether or not all born again people will be eligible for the rapture. I think you will agree that someone that is born again can be a born again THIEF. Then can have sticky fingers. They could also be a born again LIAR. Do you agree? Now we have a different question: will someone that is a LIAR (having lies they have not repented of) be eligible for the rapture? Will someone that is a THIEF (they stole without repenting) be elibible? Will a luke warm born again person be eligible? Will someone NOT LOOKING FOR Jesus when He comes be eligible? I am guessing there are going to be born again people LEFT BEHIND. It is only a guess.

You are only 1900 and some odd years off!

I disagree. I think it is possible.