fruitfull77

You must be resurrected, born of the spirit. Flesh and blood cannot enter the Kingdom of God

The bible does not point to late September for Jesus birth. That is an error which has been propogated by certain teachers who apparently have a vested interest in a fall birth. Basing Jesus birth on the timing of the course of Abijah is a nice attempt, but the full understanding of these courses does not lead to that conclusion. The Priests were divided into 24 groups, and each group served one week at a time. Abijah is the 8th group. Since there are 24 groups, obviously they must serve twice a year. Those who try to state with certainty ignore the twice a year service. Also the Hebrew calendar does not match the modern calendar. The Hebrew year starts on the first day of the month of Nissan. That is approximately March-April. Eight weeks later would be the end of the month of Iyyar which is approximately April-May. Of course this fluctuates based on whether there is a leap month. (The calendar adjusts for drift, not with a leap day but with a leap month). Plus, for High Holidays, there is no separate course, but rather more priests are needed so some of all differing courses serve in the Temple. This March-April timing is what is set forth by those who wish Jesus was born in September, (and by now it should be understood that the fluctuations of the Hebrew calendar do not allow for anyone to claim September). That second course in a year for Abiyah is in the fall in the month of Marheshvan which can be from October to November. Ok, let's do this calculation. If Elizabeth became pregnant at the end of October, or beginning of November, that would put the birth of John sometime around June or July. Add 6 months to June, and you have around the December timeframe. Oh my!!!!! The reality is, we can not know the exact time of Jesus birth based on the courses of the priesthood, as there are too many variables, but one this is sure, the courses do not eliminate December. They do not confirm December, but for those trying to prove otherwise, they do not eliminate December. I have written on the weather in the area of Bethlehem before. Many people assume for some reason that the sheep would not be out grazing in December, but they try to make an assumption which is not based on the actual weather in the Bethlehem area. Bethlehem is more of a mild meditaranean climate in temperature but is also in the desert. That means in December, the temperatures average around 50 or 60 degrees. http://www.myweather2.com/City-Town/Israel/Bethlehem/climate-profile.aspx?month=12 Throughout the month of December daytime temperatures will generally reach highs of around 14°C that's about 58°F. At night the average minimum temperature drops down to around 7°C, that's 44°F. In recent times the highest recorded temperature in December has been 29°C that's 83°F, with the lowest recorded temperature -1°C, about 30°F. So, we can say that Bethlehem is not so cold that the shepherds would not be out grazing the sheep. The other factor is that the Bethlehem area is arrid, desert like. There is only grass on the hills after rainy seasons. The rest of the time, the plants would be brown and not growing. For sheep to be grazing, it must be right after the rainy season and not after an extended dry time. From the previous site for December: Precipitation The average monthly amount of precipitation has been recorded at around 71 mm, that's 3 inches. Throughout the month you can expect to see rain or drizzle falling on 11 days of the month, with snow falling on 1 days. Now let's look at the rain around Bethlehem in September: http://www.myweather2.com/City-Town/Israel/Bethlehem/climate-profile.aspx?month=9 Precipitation The average monthly amount of precipitation has been recorded at around 0 mm, that's 0 inches. Throughout the month you can expect to see rain or drizzle falling on 0 days of the month. How about August: http://www.myweather2.com/City-Town/Israel/Bethlehem/climate-profile.aspx?month=8 Precipitation The average monthly amount of precipitation has been recorded at around 0 mm, that's 0 inches. Throughout the month you can expect to see rain or drizzle falling on 0 days of the month. One more month back to find rain to have grass to graze on in September so here is July in Bethlehem: http://www.myweather2.com/City-Town/Israel/Bethlehem/climate-profile.aspx?month=7 Precipitation The average monthly amount of precipitation has been recorded at around 10 mm, that's 0 inches. Throughout the month you can expect to see rain or drizzle falling on 0 days of the month. So, we can conclude that the shepherds would definitely NOT be out with the sheep in August, September or October, as there is nothing to graze on. The rainy season starts around November and ends around the April. In December, in the hills around Bethlehem, everything is in full bloom. From May - October, there is no rain, or only trace amounts (0 to less then an inch per month) so everything is dryed out and brown. I like to get back to you on 2 issues, but you did not comment on the calling of the people by the Roman authorities to report to their cities for taxation from agricultural harvests and September with it's perfect weather conditions and fruitful bounty would be the ideal time for this undertaking and December would not because of the travel involved.

Most of this discussion, to use the term loosely, is focused about Christmas, December 25th, being the time we should be celebrating the birth of Christ. but looking into it further we can see that it was not even close. Clement picked November 18. If we use bible scripture instead of historians who seem to have no credibility, let's consider the following: An analysis of scripture shows that Dec 25 is the most unlikely date, First we know shepherds were in the fields watching their flocks at the time of Jesus birth- Luke 2:7-8 Shepherds would not be in the fields during December. December is usually cold and rainy (possible snow even) It would be more likely shepherds would have shelters for their flocks at night. There are many sources for this view which makes more sense that the weather would not have permitted shepherds watching over their flocks in the fields at night. Next we could look at the fact that Jesus's parents came to Bethlehem to register in a Roman census- Luke 2:1-4. It is highly unlikely that such a general census would be taken in the winter.when temperatures often dropped below freezing and roads would be in poor shape. Taking a census under such conditions would have been self-defeating especially those with child and the elderly. The Bible points to late September as the most likely time of Jesus' birth based on the conception and birth of John the Baptist. Since Elizabeth -John's mother-was in her sixth month of pregnancy when Jesus was conceived -Luke 1:24-26 we can determine the approximate time of year Jesus was born. It was learned that Elizabeth would have a child-John's conception would have been near the end of June of that year-The companion Bible calculated the conception time from the Abijah service at the temple by Zacharias -Luke 1:5 after learning John's birth would be sometime in late March of the following year.we add another six months after John's birth (the difference in ages between john and Jesus) brings us to the end of September as the likely time of Jesus' birth. Aren't we lucky- we can now take Jesus out of the christmas December 25 scene. we can leave that date with pagans where it belongs. what do you think about them apples?

No. It is describing the process of carving an Idol from wood, plating it in silver and/or gold and adorning it with jewelry and regal garments. That is what pagans did with their idols. There are NO indications of Christmas trees in the middle east. You need to learn about the pagan cultures and how they worshipped their gods. You will find that all these claims about our Christmas traditions going back to the babylonians to be false. People read something in someone's book and they just believe it. Most of our Christmas traditions came out of Europe during the Reformation period. Jer 10:1-4 -is a warning from God not to follow the practices of heathens.-the example referred to is in verse 3,4 a tree is cut here and decorated or deck and secured-no carving mentioned . It doesn't have to. The word for "tree" and "wood" are the same word in Hebrew. Idols were made from wood and carved into the shape of a given god. Trees were not worshipped in the ancient near east. You evidently don't understand the culture of idolatry of the ancient near east. It is not talking about the custom of decorating a tree. You are violating historical propriety. You are taking a modern custom and penciling it into the Bible. Your history is slopply and incompetent. No one who knows anything about history will teach that people in the ancient near east teaches that they worship trees in that part of the world. Sorry, but you don't know what you are talking about. You are just parroting what you read in someone's book and you obviously didn't fact check what you read. These false teachers bank on people like you who will believe them with checking to see if their claims are true. You are so gullible and you are wrong. They didin't get it from the ancient near east because modern Christmas traditions didn't come from that part of the world. God's festivals in the OT were for Israel, not for the world. God's dietary commandments were for Israel, not the world. Why the warning from God then if this is not a pagan practice? it doesn't say anything about the Christmas tree. It is talking about people who cut down trees and make idols out of them. They shape the idol into their god and then overlay it with gold and silver. You are trying to read "Christmas tree" into that passage. The pagans in that part of the world didn't worship trees. They worshipped idols they carved from those trees. It is also the word for wood. According to a lot of junk historians and conspiracy theorists. They also say that the death burial and resurrection of Jesus are just rehashing the stories of Mithra and Horus and other gods as well. They are wrong about that, too. Baloney. No basis in reality. More baseless garbage that as no root in real history or real mythology. You'll just believe anything, won't you. I've got some ocean property in Kansas I'll sell you dirt cheap. It came from post reformation Europe, many historians agree that it started in Europe. Encyclopedias -like Britannica and others use accredited historians and many contributors that are professors of modern and ancient history at renowned universities. Your sarcasm seems to be the only defense you are left with. What documented historical sources are you relying on? Because there are a lot of resources that beg to differ with your objections to the truth. If you don't believe antiquities at least believe God. If you are a Christian and follow the One who said " I am the light of the world " why would you believe the perpetuation of strange customs not from the Bible but from the dark, dim mists of mythology which is primarily driven by satan?

I have a big plant and small tree in my living-there is nothing wrong with one. But when you bring an evergreen tree in and decorate it on Dec 25 or thereabouts you are following a pagan tradition, even tho there is no worshiping on your part. that is the gist of it. you get to decide whether that applies to us today. How about when I set up a plastic tree and decorate it in November? Even tho it sounds like you are mocking God's warnings it would only apply when you are doing the event surrounding the time frame around a recognized pagan holiday

I have a big plant and small tree in my living-there is nothing wrong with one. But when you bring an evergreen tree in and decorate it on Dec 25 or thereabouts you are following a pagan tradition, even tho there is no worshiping on your part. that is the gist of it. you get to decide whether that applies to us today.

No. It is describing the process of carving an Idol from wood, plating it in silver and/or gold and adorning it with jewelry and regal garments. That is what pagans did with their idols. There are NO indications of Christmas trees in the middle east. You need to learn about the pagan cultures and how they worshipped their gods. You will find that all these claims about our Christmas traditions going back to the babylonians to be false. People read something in someone's book and they just believe it. Most of our Christmas traditions came out of Europe during the Reformation period. Jer 10:1-4 -is a warning from God not to follow the practices of heathens.-the example referred to is in verse 3,4 a tree is cut here and decorated or deck and secured-no carving mentioned . It doesn't have to. The word for "tree" and "wood" are the same word in Hebrew. Idols were made from wood and carved into the shape of a given god. Trees were not worshipped in the ancient near east. You evidently don't understand the culture of idolatry of the ancient near east. It is not talking about the custom of decorating a tree. You are violating historical propriety. You are taking a modern custom and penciling it into the Bible. Your history is slopply and incompetent. No one who knows anything about history will teach that people in the ancient near east teaches that they worship trees in that part of the world. Sorry, but you don't know what you are talking about. You are just parroting what you read in someone's book and you obviously didn't fact check what you read. These false teachers bank on people like you who will believe them with checking to see if their claims are true. You are so gullible and you are wrong. They didin't get it from the ancient near east because modern Christmas traditions didn't come from that part of the world. God's festivals in the OT were for Israel, not for the world. God's dietary commandments were for Israel, not the world. Why the warning from God then if this is not a pagan practice? The Hebrew word ets is used which means tree. Dec 25th goes back to the days of Nimrod and Tammuz-Dec25 is associated with most sun gods. Dec 25 was regarded as the birthday of the mystery God Mithra, the son of righteousness The modern xmas tree originated in Germany but they got it from the Romans who got it from the Babylonians and Egypt-would that be close enough to the Near east, throw in India as well. Babylonian and Egyptian tree worship is a pagan tradition. I didn't see your answer where you think the modern xmas tree came from? could you supply that?

No. It is describing the process of carving an Idol from wood, plating it in silver and/or gold and adorning it with jewelry and regal garments. That is what pagans did with their idols. There are NO indications of Christmas trees in the middle east. You need to learn about the pagan cultures and how they worshipped their gods. You will find that all these claims about our Christmas traditions going back to the babylonians to be false. People read something in someone's book and they just believe it. Most of our Christmas traditions came out of Europe during the Reformation period. Jer 10:1-4 -is a warning from God not to follow the practices of heathens.-the example referred to is in verse 3,4 a tree is cut here and decorated or deck and secured-no carving mentioned . The evergreen tree and boughs were the most common In the OT they were tempted to follow that particular tradition but God forbids it. although they have good intentions as we do today to honor God it is the type of application of worship he denounces. Where do you think the people of Europe derived their traditions from regarding this subject matter? And would they not be man-made? The OT and the NT condemns laying aside God's ways He wants to be worshiped in favor of keeping our own idea of how we want to honor Him.

Hi Jerry, I don't celebrate Christmas because it's not a Christian holiday. The Church swallowed up the pagan holiday of the Saturnalia. There were pagan celebrations that centered around Dec. 25 and the winter solstice the shortest day of the year. They saw this as a renewing as the days began to get longer. As more and more pagans turned to Christianity the church incorporated their holiday. Also, Jesus wasn't born on Dec 25. I believe He was born on Sept 12 3BC. The reason I don't celebrate Christmas is twofold, one, it's not from Scripture, and two In Deuteronomy God specifically told the Jews that they were not to worship Him the way the pagans worshiped their gods. If you look at Christmas and the celebrations they are they way the pagans worshiped their gods. The pagans used trees, wreaths, lights, etc and all of these are found in Christmas celebrations. Actually there is no archeological evidence of ancients employing modern Christmas traditions. A lot of that is made up history revisionism. Most modern Christmas traditions sprung up after the Reformation in Europe, not in ancient times. It's really no different than those who claim that the story of Jesus' life is actually a retelling of the story of the birth, life and death/resurrection of Horus or some other pagan god. I have found a lot of really revisionist history and outright lies in people's attempts to tag Christianity as a pagan religion. Before xmas was the Roman saturnalia 200 AD circa and before that was something earlier and so on. Most of our xmas customs evolved from ancient pagan practices.- even the prophets warned the jews to avoid the Babylonian practices where a lot of our current customs evolved. Jer; 3;13, circa 500-600 BC that is complete nonsense. Most of Christmas tradition orginated in Christian Europe, not in Babylon. You need to look a little deeper. santa clause/jolly old nick some of those things evolved during Christian Europe but the Dec 25 birthday is about as pagan as you can get. There are multitudes of history books and encyclopedias that explore the ancient past of xmas customs. Tree decorating, exchanging gifts, caroling, ornaments, virgin birth, nativity scene, etc.are pagan practices going back thousands of years back before Christ. take a look at Hislops " The Two Babylons " or the encyclopedia of religion and ethics.There are too many resources to mention. Christmas contradicts biblical facts. Xmas is rooted in ancient customs and religious practices that has nothing to do with Christianity and the Bible. Easter, which is approaching soon, is another example of traditions that are not of Christian origin Rather than follow ancient or modern mythological practices God shows us a better way of life with His sacred Holy feast days. The choices you make will affect your destiny. the problem is that there is no real archeology or ancient historians who mention those things. We don't have anyone like Pliny or Tacitus, or any of the early church fathers, or anyone living in ancient times that even attests to those things. I have discovered that a person needs to actually study ancient mythology to get a handle on what their customs really are. There were no "Christmas" trees in ancient times. Hislop's book has been discredited multiple times. I'm sorry, but your arguments are not historicaly accurate. Would you say Jeremiah 10: 1-4 is describing anything close to our christmas tree of today-this was written back in the late 500's BC

You have to go deeper than a concordance to find the origins of birthdays and easter, and the likes of christmas. You have to to look into ancient history, encyclopedias, bible hand books, and the Babylonian practices. we can easily lose sight of the special meanings of God's holy days when we vary or alter the dates and times God instituted for us to observe. these days were meant.to be kept forever and ever, they were not temporary or part of Moses law. God said in Deut 12;32-do not add to what I command you to observe. Your duty is to " prove all things "-the problem with many of those man made holidays is they correspond with many pagan practices. We are to follow God's examples.not our personal reasoning. Christmas and easter were not celebrated in the bible although the OT refers to pagan customs that were adopted to those traditions we now keep with christ as the central figure. Jesus, and the apostles kept God's feast day years after the birth of the NTChurch-it wasn;t until hundreds of years later false teaches started to amalgamate local customs with God's festivals until they were nothing like the original Holy days God ordained. what do you have to lose when you celebrate God's Holydays? Other than eternal life. why the adversity to it all? One of the problems here is that I don't trust extra Biblical books about church history or pagan practices. As Shiloh said, there has been a lot of revisionism. You can find things that both agree with you and disagree with you. I have no problem with anyone keeping all the feast days if they desire to. I just have no problem with celebrating Christmas and Easter. We don't worship idols because we reflect on the birth of Jesus and the resurrection of Jesus on a given day. Can you explain what you mean when you say: "what do you have to lose when you celebrate God's Holydays? Other than eternal live." Why would you lose eternal life if you celebrate God's holy days, and if you would lose eternal life, why would you celebrate them? That was phrased wrongly. I should have said " what do you have to lose when you fail to celebrate God's Holydays " -my mistake. That makes a lot more sense. So you believe that we must keep God's holydays or we risk losing our salvation? Based on that, can you give me a list of the holydays you believe we must keep? Well based on the Bible, besides the weekly Sabbath, God gave us annual festivals- Lev 23 The Passover Feast of Unleavened Bread The Feast of Pentecost The Feast of Trumpets The Day of Atonement The Feast of Tabernacles The Last Great Day These are the ones God commanded us to keep These are the ones that I follow now.

Hi Jerry, I don't celebrate Christmas because it's not a Christian holiday. The Church swallowed up the pagan holiday of the Saturnalia. There were pagan celebrations that centered around Dec. 25 and the winter solstice the shortest day of the year. They saw this as a renewing as the days began to get longer. As more and more pagans turned to Christianity the church incorporated their holiday. Also, Jesus wasn't born on Dec 25. I believe He was born on Sept 12 3BC. The reason I don't celebrate Christmas is twofold, one, it's not from Scripture, and two In Deuteronomy God specifically told the Jews that they were not to worship Him the way the pagans worshiped their gods. If you look at Christmas and the celebrations they are they way the pagans worshiped their gods. The pagans used trees, wreaths, lights, etc and all of these are found in Christmas celebrations. Actually there is no archeological evidence of ancients employing modern Christmas traditions. A lot of that is made up history revisionism. Most modern Christmas traditions sprung up after the Reformation in Europe, not in ancient times. It's really no different than those who claim that the story of Jesus' life is actually a retelling of the story of the birth, life and death/resurrection of Horus or some other pagan god. I have found a lot of really revisionist history and outright lies in people's attempts to tag Christianity as a pagan religion. Before xmas was the Roman saturnalia 200 AD circa and before that was something earlier and so on. Most of our xmas customs evolved from ancient pagan practices.- even the prophets warned the jews to avoid the Babylonian practices where a lot of our current customs evolved. Jer; 3;13, circa 500-600 BC that is complete nonsense. Most of Christmas tradition orginated in Christian Europe, not in Babylon. You need to look a little deeper. santa clause/jolly old nick some of those things evolved during Christian Europe but the Dec 25 birthday is about as pagan as you can get. There are multitudes of history books and encyclopedias that explore the ancient past of xmas customs. Tree decorating, exchanging gifts, caroling, ornaments, virgin birth, nativity scene, etc.are pagan practices going back thousands of years back before Christ. take a look at Hislops " The Two Babylons " or the encyclopedia of religion and ethics.There are too many resources to mention. Christmas contradicts biblical facts. Xmas is rooted in ancient customs and religious practices that has nothing to do with Christianity and the Bible. Easter, which is approaching soon, is another example of traditions that are not of Christian origin Rather than follow ancient or modern mythological practices God shows us a better way of life with His sacred Holy feast days. The choices you make will affect your destiny. the problem is that there is no real archeology or ancient historians who mention those things. We don't have anyone like Pliny or Tacitus, or any of the early church fathers, or anyone living in ancient times that even attests to those things. I have discovered that a person needs to actually study ancient mythology to get a handle on what their customs really are. There were no "Christmas" trees in ancient times. Hislop's book has been discredited multiple times. I'm sorry, but your arguments are not historicaly accurate. We trust that encyclopedias like Britannica in their " Christianity " section are from professional historians and related documents. There are numerous reference books that contain the same findings. Research books from using history sources provide enough information to make you think about the veracity of a subject in the least. There are so many hundreds of books on pagan origins in the libraries that confirm the xmas subject that it is simple enough to find the traditions that are associated with them. do you think there is a conspiracy by authors to discredit or support xmas origins or are they just producing what they have discovered from their research? We trust that the work done by authors is documented and backed up by historical references. Some of these below I have extracted and posted relative to this matter: William Walsh's -The story of Santa Klaus William Samson, A Book of Christmas The Christmas Almanac Tom Flynn, The Trouble With Christmas The Christian Calendar by L>W> Cowie Micropaedia " Christmas" The Early Church Fathers-Origen, Clement of Alexandria, Epiphanius Robert Myers- Celebrations : The Complete Book of American Holidays there is so much out there and that's not including the thousands of sources on the internet somebody out there might just have something right. what was discredited in Hislop's book? and by who?

You have to go deeper than a concordance to find the origins of birthdays and easter, and the likes of christmas. You have to to look into ancient history, encyclopedias, bible hand books, and the Babylonian practices. we can easily lose sight of the special meanings of God's holy days when we vary or alter the dates and times God instituted for us to observe. these days were meant.to be kept forever and ever, they were not temporary or part of Moses law. God said in Deut 12;32-do not add to what I command you to observe. Your duty is to " prove all things "-the problem with many of those man made holidays is they correspond with many pagan practices. We are to follow God's examples.not our personal reasoning. Christmas and easter were not celebrated in the bible although the OT refers to pagan customs that were adopted to those traditions we now keep with christ as the central figure. Jesus, and the apostles kept God's feast day years after the birth of the NTChurch-it wasn;t until hundreds of years later false teaches started to amalgamate local customs with God's festivals until they were nothing like the original Holy days God ordained. what do you have to lose when you celebrate God's Holydays? Other than eternal life. why the adversity to it all? One of the problems here is that I don't trust extra Biblical books about church history or pagan practices. As Shiloh said, there has been a lot of revisionism. You can find things that both agree with you and disagree with you. I have no problem with anyone keeping all the feast days if they desire to. I just have no problem with celebrating Christmas and Easter. We don't worship idols because we reflect on the birth of Jesus and the resurrection of Jesus on a given day. Can you explain what you mean when you say: "what do you have to lose when you celebrate God's Holydays? Other than eternal live." Why would you lose eternal life if you celebrate God's holy days, and if you would lose eternal life, why would you celebrate them? That was phrased wrongly. I should have said " what do you have to lose when you fail to celebrate God's Holydays " -my mistake.

Hi Jerry, I don't celebrate Christmas because it's not a Christian holiday. The Church swallowed up the pagan holiday of the Saturnalia. There were pagan celebrations that centered around Dec. 25 and the winter solstice the shortest day of the year. They saw this as a renewing as the days began to get longer. As more and more pagans turned to Christianity the church incorporated their holiday. Also, Jesus wasn't born on Dec 25. I believe He was born on Sept 12 3BC. The reason I don't celebrate Christmas is twofold, one, it's not from Scripture, and two In Deuteronomy God specifically told the Jews that they were not to worship Him the way the pagans worshiped their gods. If you look at Christmas and the celebrations they are they way the pagans worshiped their gods. The pagans used trees, wreaths, lights, etc and all of these are found in Christmas celebrations. Actually there is no archeological evidence of ancients employing modern Christmas traditions. A lot of that is made up history revisionism. Most modern Christmas traditions sprung up after the Reformation in Europe, not in ancient times. It's really no different than those who claim that the story of Jesus' life is actually a retelling of the story of the birth, life and death/resurrection of Horus or some other pagan god. I have found a lot of really revisionist history and outright lies in people's attempts to tag Christianity as a pagan religion. Before xmas was the Roman saturnalia 200 AD circa and before that was something earlier and so on. Most of our xmas customs evolved from ancient pagan practices.- even the prophets warned the jews to avoid the Babylonian practices where a lot of our current customs evolved. Jer; 3;13, circa 500-600 BC that is complete nonsense. Most of Christmas tradition orginated in Christian Europe, not in Babylon. You need to look a little deeper. santa clause/jolly old nick some of those things evolved during Christian Europe but the Dec 25 birthday is about as pagan as you can get. There are multitudes of history books and encyclopedias that explore the ancient past of xmas customs. Tree decorating, exchanging gifts, caroling, ornaments, virgin birth, nativity scene, etc.are pagan practices going back thousands of years back before Christ. take a look at Hislops " The Two Babylons " or the encyclopedia of religion and ethics.There are too many resources to mention. Christmas contradicts biblical facts. Xmas is rooted in ancient customs and religious practices that has nothing to do with Christianity and the Bible. Easter, which is approaching soon, is another example of traditions that are not of Christian origin Rather than follow ancient or modern mythological practices God shows us a better way of life with His sacred Holy feast days. The choices you make will affect your destiny. Are you really making the celebration of Christmas and Easter a salvation issue? Do you really believe those who celebrate Dec. 25th as Jesus birthday are risking their salvation? Christmas is on Dec 25th. Saturnalia began on Dec. 17th. The winter solstice is on Dec. 21st. None of these dates match. A pagan practice involves the worship of pagan gods. Jesus is not a pagan god. As far as the OT Holy days, those were given to the children of Israel as a sign between them and God. Not Gentiles. And not the Church. Neither Christmas nor Easter are pagan. And we are under the New Covenant, not the Mosaic covenant. You read too much really bad information which is usually written with an agenda to justify bad theology. I would suggest reading some genuine Messianic Judaism sites to get the real information. The UMJC has many papers written on these topics. So much to say and so little time. i;m not trying to make an issue here-that's your department. If we have prolific proof available as we do with the origins of christmas including even the catholic encyclopedias that xmas is ripe in pagan philosophy and we ignore it so as not to upset our comfortable way of celebrating than we could be at risk of sinning willfully. Christ was not born in the winter on or near December 25-there's Biblical proof. When it comes to the children of Israel we find that they were made up of 12 tribes-the tribe of Judah (Jews) being only one of them. The Israelites consisted of gentiles as well during the exodus. When God made His covenant with the children of Israel and their descendants it included all 12 tribes. Is it possible that some of us are part of the latter day Israelites? Paul brought the church and its teachings and observances of God's feast days to the gentiles. There is no mention of christmas celebrations in the New Testament. You won't even find a religious service or feast day held to commerorate Jesus birth in the NT. December 25th has a very dark and checkered past. Saturnalia began on the 17th but ran for 7 days to the 24 - our christmas eve, Dec 25 was the original celebrated winter solstice. It was changed later in history to the 21st. businesses were closed, parties were held, gifts exchanged-sound familiar? It is a fact that Dec 25 was the birthday for many ancient sun gods part of the winter solstice celebrations. During the time of the Apostles and the NT church Romans celebrated the feast of the saturnalia while the church kept the " feasts of the Lord " The Christian history books over the centuries showed an animosity to xmas because of their relationship to sun worshiping. Xmas was banned at one time in England and in New England. But another popular religious holiday, Easter has an even more deceptive past. Check out its origins. We all have the tools in our world of technology.

Hi Jerry, I don't celebrate Christmas because it's not a Christian holiday. The Church swallowed up the pagan holiday of the Saturnalia. There were pagan celebrations that centered around Dec. 25 and the winter solstice the shortest day of the year. They saw this as a renewing as the days began to get longer. As more and more pagans turned to Christianity the church incorporated their holiday. Also, Jesus wasn't born on Dec 25. I believe He was born on Sept 12 3BC. The reason I don't celebrate Christmas is twofold, one, it's not from Scripture, and two In Deuteronomy God specifically told the Jews that they were not to worship Him the way the pagans worshiped their gods. If you look at Christmas and the celebrations they are they way the pagans worshiped their gods. The pagans used trees, wreaths, lights, etc and all of these are found in Christmas celebrations. Actually there is no archeological evidence of ancients employing modern Christmas traditions. A lot of that is made up history revisionism. Most modern Christmas traditions sprung up after the Reformation in Europe, not in ancient times. It's really no different than those who claim that the story of Jesus' life is actually a retelling of the story of the birth, life and death/resurrection of Horus or some other pagan god. I have found a lot of really revisionist history and outright lies in people's attempts to tag Christianity as a pagan religion. Before xmas was the Roman saturnalia 200 AD circa and before that was something earlier and so on. Most of our xmas customs evolved from ancient pagan practices.- even the prophets warned the jews to avoid the Babylonian practices where a lot of our current customs evolved. Jer; 3;13, circa 500-600 BC that is complete nonsense. Most of Christmas tradition orginated in Christian Europe, not in Babylon. You need to look a little deeper. santa clause/jolly old nick some of those things evolved during Christian Europe but the Dec 25 birthday is about as pagan as you can get. There are multitudes of history books and encyclopedias that explore the ancient past of xmas customs. Tree decorating, exchanging gifts, caroling, ornaments, virgin birth, nativity scene, etc.are pagan practices going back thousands of years back before Christ. take a look at Hislops " The Two Babylons " or the encyclopedia of religion and ethics.There are too many resources to mention. Christmas contradicts biblical facts. Xmas is rooted in ancient customs and religious practices that has nothing to do with Christianity and the Bible. Easter, which is approaching soon, is another example of traditions that are not of Christian origin Rather than follow ancient or modern mythological practices God shows us a better way of life with His sacred Holy feast days. The choices you make will affect your destiny.

Hi Jerry, I don't celebrate Christmas because it's not a Christian holiday. The Church swallowed up the pagan holiday of the Saturnalia. There were pagan celebrations that centered around Dec. 25 and the winter solstice the shortest day of the year. They saw this as a renewing as the days began to get longer. As more and more pagans turned to Christianity the church incorporated their holiday. Also, Jesus wasn't born on Dec 25. I believe He was born on Sept 12 3BC. The reason I don't celebrate Christmas is twofold, one, it's not from Scripture, and two In Deuteronomy God specifically told the Jews that they were not to worship Him the way the pagans worshiped their gods. If you look at Christmas and the celebrations they are they way the pagans worshiped their gods. The pagans used trees, wreaths, lights, etc and all of these are found in Christmas celebrations. Actually there is no archeological evidence of ancients employing modern Christmas traditions. A lot of that is made up history revisionism. Most modern Christmas traditions sprung up after the Reformation in Europe, not in ancient times. It's really no different than those who claim that the story of Jesus' life is actually a retelling of the story of the birth, life and death/resurrection of Horus or some other pagan god. I have found a lot of really revisionist history and outright lies in people's attempts to tag Christianity as a pagan religion. Before xmas was the Roman saturnalia 200 AD circa and before that was something earlier and so on. Most of our xmas customs evolved from ancient pagan practices.- even the prophets warned the jews to avoid the Babylonian practices where a lot of our current customs evolved. Jer; 3;13, circa 500-600 BC