fromeasttowest

The idea of karma is similar to "you reap what you sow" only difference is karma happens to you in your next life on earth and stands apart from any kind of omnipotent God. It's more like a function of the universe. While you "reap what you sow" is part of an analogy that explains God's nature and how he judges. If you show mercy on earth then you will be shown mercy on judgment day. But you can see some of the Truth of the true Judeo-Christian God Jehovah written in between the lines of other religions. But (to me at least) the other religions missed the mark though they got kinda close with karma. lol

Genesis says "And the Earth gave forth" that means evolution to me. I think God created us using His organized and perfect system called natural selection. Dinosaurs happened in between the lines of "fish of the sea and birds of the air" Since birds are the descendants of dinosaurs. This makes sense. Biologos.org Is for Christians who believe God created evolution. Much like how a computer whiz writes a program.

The creation account was simplified into a 7 day format. Dinosaurs were real. The rigid ignorance I see in Christians is turning people away from our faith, and I think it is sad. But I see that, like the pharisees, some people will never change from their archaic grasp on reality. Knowledge has greatly increased now that we are in the end of days. The debate has reached a shallow state (well none of us speak Hebrew so you know...) So long folks, enjoy your life defending your faith against science. PS wheres your literal helmet of salvation in your photo? Obviously its a figurative spiritual kind of helmet...come on! lol peace.

"Dumb it down" is a figure of speech which means that Jesus is simplifying mysterious things into parables. I know that God in his supreme intellect completely understands what I mean and where I am coming from.

You took it out of context in the most shallow way. We are made alive in Christ, until then, because of the fall, we are spiritually dead. The devil was lying by saying you will not surly die, (I'm saying they didn't physically die that day jeeze) he was saying that they would be like God and will not spiritually die when they eat the apple. I'm saying they didn't physically die that day. The devil said you will not die. I'm trying to explain that "the day" is broad. It says they would die "the day" they ate the apple, which they did not because they lived on and had kids. So anyway, obviously they were not immortal at the time of eating the Apple, it is speaking of spiritual death because... 22And the LordGod said, “The man has now become like one of us, knowing good and evil. He must not be allowed to reach out his hand and take also from the tree of life and eat, and live forever.” You see what I mean Fresno? I'm not speaking a duet with Satan. You ignore the proof I give in Hebrew (I showed the article was present in Genesis 2:4.) And instead you wait till I am speaking frankly so you can easily target something that you can take out of context. All of your posts on this website are presented as an ultimatum of some sort paired with a scripture taken out of context. Very Pharisee-like.

bə·yō·wm, בְּי֗וֹם the day 6213 [e] "beyowm" means "the day" This is the book of the generations of Adam. In the day when God created man, He made him in the likeness of God. Gen5:1 but from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat, for in the day that you eat from it you will surely die." Gen 2:17 beyowm is used in both scriptures. Obviously Adam didn't die the day he ate the apple. And to me obviously God didn't create humans in one day. But now, thus says the Lord, your Creator, O Jacob, And He who formed you, O Israel, Do not fear for I have redeemed you;....Isaiah 43:1 Obviously Israel wasn't formed in one day. We shouldn't think we were formed in one day either. The seven day format of creation is great because it presents it all as happening in one week so we can model our week after it with the Sabbath Our week is a microcosm of creation. Anytime the Bible speaks of mysterious things it tends to dumb it down for us. Like with Jesus and all the parables, or with the symbolism of water representing Gods grace and fire his judgment, or with the spiritual armor taught by Paul. The Bible is full of this stuff. And it's very helpful unless you think its literal.

We are on different levels here so thank you for the wonderful discussion. It has truly been my pleasure even though you didn't address the dilemma of Gen 2:4 but whatever:-)

lol Just pray about it and get a Hebrew/ Greek Lexicon at a bookstore, get a Strongs concordance and a good study Bible not written in archaic language. And go study the scriptures for your self. I for one believe they aren't real 24 hour days because of Gen 2:4 but you know that's just me. Go check out what day means in Hebrew.

hum - when somebody speaks of "making", I personally think of different things than opening up a process that makes it. If I undertand you right, you are telling us here that God would have had recourse to active creationism - you paraphrased it by a "poof" - only if he were less than all powerful. He would have chosen evolution otherwise, if I got the red highlighted phrase right. So now consider you're wrong and he actually made dog and wolf through a poof as you would put it. In this scenario, aren't you making the same exact thing you are professing not to do, which is accusing God of proceeding in a powerless way? And I think this is what Joe was referring to... Just my 2 cents, Thomas Yes, assuming I am wrong and assuming that God created things instantly like poof even when it clearly says the "earth gave forth" then you are right I would be accusing God of going about in a powerless way. The "poof" God seems like a very primitive God to me. I believe God is way smarter than that. lol Here's the hebrew word for "make" and what it encompasses. I should have said this a long time ago sorry. Taken from "let us make man in our image" Make=Asah (strongs 6213) means to work, to labor, to toil, to make, to create, to construct, to build, to accomplish, to acquire, to earn, to procure, to prepare, to offer, to sacrifice, to appoint, to constituent, to keep, to fulfill, to be made of, to be done, to be created, to be prepared, to happen, to be, to handle, to squeeze. The basic meaning of asah is do or make in a general sense. In Genesis bara (to create) and asah (to make) alternate. The word asah is used in scripture to describe God's creative activity. ---hum - when somebody speaks of "making", I personally think of different things than opening up a process that makes it.--- If you intended to write a letter and invented the computer program Microsoft Word, then downloaded it on your computer, then opened it up and wrote a letter on it and printed it out, would you say that Microsoft word wrote/made the letter or you? You would say that you wrote the letter, that you thought it up, that you deserve the credit for the creation of the letter. And you would say that You just wrote it by the process of using the program. The program didn't actually make it. The program didn't invent itself and type the letter itself. You invented the program and by the program you created something.

I think there is no indication in Job or other scripture that the sons of God mentioned in Job were demons. "Sons of God" is a phrase for angels in general and since demons are fallen angels and satan was there then there's my an indication that other fallen angels were also there. lol (a lot of theres) And that Sons of God means angels fallen or otherwise. Job 1:6 Now it came to pass on the day when the sons of God came to present themselves before Jehovah, that Satan also came among them. Man is special! We are the whole reason why he made the universe in the first place! Anyway good day, it was a good conversation.

---This passage is thought by many to be a second account of creation, I don't really think that man was a separate creation so to speak either. Though Genesis certainty does give us two angles of the creation story. I think chapter 1 is a broad overview of creation and it presents the creation of man and women as a single act. Then in Gen 2:4b-24 the author zooms in and presents us with the details of day 6. The distinction of man and women are brought into sharp focus. Chapters one and two are not chronological , -chapters 2:4b-24 simply present in greater detail some of what Gen 1 merely summarizes. ---The word in this case does not have the article, I believe. The, indicating that it probably means time, which is how the Catholic bible translates it. Otherwise it would be a contradiction.--- New International Version This is the account of the heavens and the earth when they were created, when the LORD God made the earth and the heavens. New Living Translation This is the account of the creation of the heavens and the earth. When the LORD God made the earth and the heavens, English Standard Version These are the generations of the heavens and the earth when they were created, in the day that the LORD God made the earth and the heavens. New American Standard Bible This is the account of the heavens and the earth when they were created, in the day that the LORD God made earth and heaven. King James Bible These are the generations of the heavens and of the earth when they were created, in the day that the LORD God made the earth and the heavens, Holman Christian Standard Bible These are the records of the heavens and the earth, concerning their creation at the time that the LORD God made the earth and the heavens. International Standard Version These are the records of the universe at its creation. On the day that the LORD God made the earth and skies, NET Bible This is the account of the heavens and the earth when they were created--when the LORD God made the earth and heavens. GOD'S WORD® Translation This is the account of heaven and earth when they were created, at the time when the LORD God made earth and heaven. Jubilee Bible 2000 These are the origins of the heavens and of the earth when they were created, in the day that the LORD God made the earth and the heavens King James 2000 Bible These are the generations of the heavens and of the earth when they were created, in the day that the LORD God made the earth and the heavens, American King James Version These are the generations of the heavens and of the earth when they were created, in the day that the LORD God made the earth and the heavens, American Standard Version These are the generations of the heavens and of the earth when they were created, in the day that Jehovah God made earth and heaven. Douay-Rheims Bible These are the generations of the heaven and the earth, when they were created, in the day that the Lord God made the heaven and the earth: Darby Bible Translation These are the histories of the heavens and the earth, when they were created, in the day that Jehovah Elohim made earth and heavens, English Revised Version These are the generations of the heaven and of the earth when they were created, in the day that the LORD God made earth and heaven. Webster's Bible Translation These are the generations of the heavens and of the earth when they were created, in the day that the LORD God made the earth and the heavens. World English Bible This is the history of the generations of the heavens and of the earth when they were created, in the day that Yahweh God made the earth and the heavens. Young's Literal Translation These are births of the heavens and of the earth in their being prepared, in the day of Jehovah God's making earth and heavens; (I have the New American Standard Bible) The Keyword Study Bible As you can see, lots of different translations, with a lot of them completely omitting the word day to avoid the confusion!, However the word day is indeed there. Here's Gen 2:4 in Hebrew with the word yowm in red. וַיְכַל אֱלֹהִים בַּיּוֹם הַשְּׁבִיעִי, מְלַאכְתּוֹ אֲשֶׁר עָשָׂה; וַיִּשְׁבֹּת בַּיּוֹם הַשְּׁבִיעִי, מִכָּל-מְלַאכְתּוֹ אֲשֶׁר עָשָׂה. And it is the word yowm which can be literal or figurative. So we see that it's using the yowm day in both chapters. Yowm, (strongs 3117)a day, a number of days, some time, year, life (when in the plural); today; in the daytime, on the same day; at present, now. A point in time and a sphere of time are both expressed by yowm. It is the period of light that is not darkness. It can be 24 hours, time in general, a specific point in time, or a year. (Typed from my Hebrew lexicon) Yowmam ( strongs3118) it means by day, day and night always. It occurs 51 times and specifies that an activity happened while it was still light. And fact that Moses (the author) did not use the yowmam is evidence to me at least of an open Biblical possibility that the universe was not created in 7 literal earth days. I

I don't really think that man was a separate creation so to speak. Though Genesis certainty does give us two angles of the creation story. I think chapter 1 is a broad overview of creation and it presents the creation of man and women as a single act. Then in Gen 2:4b-24 the author zooms in and presents us with the details of day 6. The distinction of man and women are brought into sharp focus. Chapters one and two are not chronological , -chapters 2:4b-24 simply present in greater detail some of what Gen 1 merely summarizes. I'm speculating that perhaps these mighty Nephilim men who were completely void of morals were the "sons of God" because that phrase is used of demons (in Job) and mighty men (in Psalms) in the Bible. I speculate that if Adam and Eve are truly the first human beings in the truest sense of the word "human" because they are the first two to be given spirit. Then I would think these Nephilim, these "sons of God" kind of fit the part of all the other humans on the earth who do not possess a spirit. And it makes sense that you would destroy them all. Merely being an evolutionary by product. And it makes sense that these people would simply not exist not going to Heaven or Hell. With this view you can see that God did not make a mistake in creating these humans, the view that he had to "fix" his mistake is false. He was just trimming off the excess evolutionary unnecessary spiritless human by product so to speak.

Jesus is God in the flesh, he was born of a virgin, His sacrifice nullified the Law, He literally rose from the dead after three days, and everything in the Bible is true because God is true. I have faith in all these things. What I don't have faith in is people. Very good people have misinterpreted scripture and doctrines out of ignorance before.(and hey maybe that's me) Most of Paul's letters to the churches were sent out to fix these many many misinterpretations by good people. So all I'm saying is I think that if God created everything by a planned process wouldn't that still qualify as Him making it? That's all I'm saying. Surely your turning of things upside down shall be esteemed as the potter's clay: for shall the work say of him that made it, He made me not?[I totally agree that God made me I am not saying that God didn't make me, He planned to make me before the Universe was here] or shall the thing framed say of him that framed it, He had no understanding?[i am definitely not accusing God of having no understanding, I am making the opposite argument I think "evolutionary creationism" speaks of a higher God, a way more awe inspiring God, truly an all knowing and all powerful God, than a God that would create things like poof there's a dog and poof there's a wolf]

Let me clarify one more thing... if you are a Christian the Holy Spirit will move in you and you will want to be baptized. Every true Christian seeks to become baptized eventually. Your baptism is evidence to everyone that you belong to God. Get baptized. But don't force it. Pray about this. And keep reading you Bible. And never forget that the Holy Spirit is as close as your breath.