Paradox

Kool

I was hoping that someone would allow Alpha particle to discuss the different aspects of the BBT, to be engaging and intelligent about it. Instead the topic is drowned in philosophical arguments. If one's views are strong in creation, why would anything said be a threat to one's belief? If Christians were genuine they would be able to explain the observations that science makes without accepting their take on it, but it seems that Christians are not even prepared to see what is being presented. Unless this whole forum is a stunt to create divisions and animosity, to the point that people will get sick of it, and finally unite on a new type of scientific religion in the near future.

Other One, What do you think of II Peter 3:5,6? the world standing in the water and yet out of it.

Gog and Magog is an expression used to include the limits of heathen territory and or status of existence. Gog means high mountain. Magog is associated with the clan of Tubal who was the ruler of sea merchants in ancient times, and the term refers to the seas or sea. A mountain in prophecy is a centralized or controlled population, like a kingdom or power, and the seas represent the nations, peoples populations in general. The organised people under rule and the unorganized masses. Onelight already showed that these are bought to view at the end of the millennium. The expressions in Ezekiel refer to the then known extent of the heathen cultures and kingdoms surrounding Israel. And the manner which God deals with them is the manner which He will deal with those in the time after the millennium. Hence Revelation borrows from these images. Armageddon is another issue before or at the time of the return of Christ involving the entire world except the faithful. The time after the millennium also only involves all the world except the saved. Gog and Magog in Rev do not represent regional skirmishes and ideologies, nor individuals whether leaders or followers, but the whole scene of the unsaved, who yet again attempt to conquer the New Jerusalem.

God approves and accepts who you are otherwise you would not be alive. If you like this and accept it you will live with Him forever. This does not mean that the child who never sees the sun is rejected, far from it, what is the resurrection for anyway, if not to bring back lost lives small and great? And you are not lost or condemned because you have doubts and questions either. God has infused this temporary life with millions of good things which come your way every day. So that if you exercise an ounce of faith, you are on the path to victory over every weak thought. This will take some discipline. Hebrews 12. The life you have, the healing that goes on, the heartbeat, the emotional comforts in life, are there for you by Jesus Christ the representative of humanity to God. He brings them to you, because He purchased your sins before you committed them. You are not condemned because you were born into a dis-functional world. and you are not guilty of anyone else's sin. You can only be guilty if you insist on having sin put back onto your record in heaven. "Whatsoever is not of faith is sin" "Without faith it is impossible to please" God. Why do we suffer dis-functions from the actions of Adam? Real cause and effect. God lives with it and will not manipulate circumstances, otherwise nature becomes contrived or a lie. God can work with results and be completely victorious, so can you by faith in Him.

If the whole earth was flooded with water, the water would have no where to run off. Thank you, Shaz. Genesis says the "waters prevailed" indicating that they subdued the earth below. The earth bends under the pressure of the oceans, and if they are allowed some kind of momentum, does not need much speed at all, even a couple of knots will do it, nothing will prevent them from overruling the land. Notice that they first "prevailed" and then "prevailed exceedingly" finally covering the highest mountains. The landscape under these waters was pushed around, up and down, until it was all under. There are several methods God has in place today to prevent them from doing that, but that is another subject. Later, we can talk about the details of this prevalence of water, and see the evidence of how it shaped the earth underneath, and how the earth reacted. Once these oceans prevail over the earth with an average depth of 2000 meters, God has to cause them to "asswage" and create ocean basins again. God tells us how,Gen 8:1-4. Remember to use the KJV, otherwise you may have missing details.

Because we imagine that we are separate from the Life which flows from God, we don't see any consequence to whether we sin or not. We tell ourselves that He ought to get over it and chill out. But in fact we are created by Christ and maintained in Life, by His own Life, which He shares with us. We cannot live unless Christ is Living. Whatever Life flows from God comes back to Him. Isaiah 55:11 The Word of Life does not return to God empty. It causes creation and flows back to God, immediately and continuously. Now if death enters that cycle of Life - who gets the death if it is not carried out on the cause of it? Because God cannot die, He suffers a living death - if He chooses not to annihilate the cause of death - immediately. However, if He can become the cause of sin and death, absorb all its malfunctions and disgrace, and die, then it will die with Him. And the creature suffering from the disease called sin and death, will not die. "Behold the Lamb of God which takes away the sins of the world"

The Big Bang theory is a product of a particular mentality which Christians cannot afford to share or have, even if they believe this kind of indiscriminate violence is the way that God bought things in to being. God is looked upon as powerful, and so many imagine that any creation involves overt and dramatic energies, when this is not the case at all. Everything came into existence through His wisdom and discretion, but never brute force. He is far too intelligent to act like that. Creation cannot exist with God unless He makes an allowance for it. Notice that all His commands begin with "Let there be..." Eternal Power does not allow for anything else to exist, for God is a consuming fire. His power replicates and multiplies to any degree, and nothing can exist with it. However, only One equal with God could make an allowance, could make a place, where those eternal powers are at rest, and that happens to be the Son Jesus Christ. He would only have to do it once, and the result would be established for eternity. So creation happens through the subjection of power, the relinquishing of energy (for lack of a better term), and not an explosion. Meekness, gentleness, and wisdom.

I don't know the answers to some of your Q's, and they are valid for sure. So in the back of my mind I remember what you have presented and see how it all pans out. One thing is certain, we agree on what the teachings of the AC are. Rollingthunder posted some texts in this regard in the thread on the AC, and I believe that if we find more about his manners and character then the scriptures should nail him. And from that we will be able to tell his movements in the world today. What, where and how the AC comes to light, is where we have many different views, but by uniting our efforts on the basics of what he is on about, all his other plans should be transparent, as they were to the apostles.

A deceiver is out to get the undeceived, to remove them from the true Shepherd, and so they come in with sheep's clothing. A false apostle is one that mingles with the true, or pretends to tell the truth all the while mixing in error. So from John alone we can say that the teachings of the AC are like that of Cain, I John 3:12. who presented an offering that looked pleasing - fruits of the field etc, but avoided the horrible reality of sin and its consequences, as well as the Redeemer. The definition of the works of the AC is to disobey God, but this does not mean that it is without attractive religious qualities. What are these deceptive things? What is meant by not acknowledging Christ in the flesh?

It may interest some who have difficulty conceiving a global flood, that water on a large scale behaves far differently than imagined, it acts more like a solid than a liquid. As its volume increases its relative viscosity also increases. Similar in principle to a pendulum, the longer the pendulum the slower it oscillates back and forth. A large mass of water cannot be shifted around very easily, it takes too much energy to move it. This implies that once it is moving, no matter how slow, it cannot be stopped either. Once this basic concept is understood, it is very easy to know the dynamics of a global flood. These dynamics are apparent to ship captains. A large vessel cannot dock if there is only a couple of meters of water separating the ship from the dock and the ground underneath. The water has to be displaced by the vessel as it approaches side ways, and sometimes the energy required to do that is not enough, even with the most powerful side thrust engines. If this is the case on this small scale, what kind of forces are we dealing with on the scale of an ocean?

According to John, the AC has a Christian origin, otherwise it would not be deceptive. "Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof." This agrees with what others have posted about its inception through peaceful means. To a Christian there is nothing deceptive about open demon worship, atheism, hedonism, Islam, Buddhism, Shintoism, etc and anything outside of the name of Christianity. But an impressive and popular religion that upholds the cross and claims to be Christian may be a snare. The AC also permits sin on some level. Not on an obvious level, but subtle. I John 3:4. No one disagrees that the AC is of the devil. I john 3:8.

From the book of John alone, we can safely conclude that the AC is a spirit which may infect more than one individual, even every spirit which does not confess Christ. And also that it is an individual to the future of the time of John. Verse 23, The AC denies the Father and Son but especially Christ the Son. Verse 19, says that the AC's are apostates, they were once of the believing church but went out, so the AC has a Christian origin gone wrong.

The second post in this thread basically puts up the facts about the AC that we all agree on. When, what, who and how the AC is manifested, has many different points of view. Is it possible to identify the AC from those few texts alone? I think it would be fair for any of us to do that, since we all agree and understand those points.

It's very difficult to study these prophecies without going into all topics which are related to them, for instance we recognize that Revelation borrows illustrations and the language from many other Bible authors, I try and remind myself of the thread topic without too much success. But I just wanted to say that Turkey was once the capitol of the Ottoman empire and today, possibly the capitol of Islam. Although the Islamic mosque is built on what was once Turkish ground, I don't think that the current Jerusalem is in question when Thessalonians talks about the AC sitting in the temple of God. Which is God's temple? Would it be a restoration of the one gone? No, because it only stood as a shadow until the real Lamb of God was slain, then its services were over, indicated by the tearing of the veil within. So it is no longer God's temple, neither could it be if it was rebuilt. Besides Jerusalem and Israel as a theocracy finished at the end of the 490 years of probation given to them. The only temple of God is either the one in heaven where Christ is the priest, or the one on earth - our bodies. The work of God in heaven corresponds to whatever is done on earth. So there is only one temple, which is literally in heaven and spiritually applied on earth through the Holy Spirit. The church of Christ is named the temple of the Lord. If the AC sits in the temple of God showing that he is God, that would correspond with all those who worship self as god, rather than Christ. This was the same sin which Lucifer committed in heaven, he thought himself as god. This occurs when a person does not acknowledge the authority of God, by violating one or more of His commandments. Because to disobey God is to make oneself higher than God. Hence the text "they that keep the commandments of God and have the faith of Jesus" is repeated over and over again in Revelation in direct contrast to the work of the AC and his mark of rebellion. But what the AC does is call his work the work of Christ, and so the poisonous pill goes down. (A false Christ) If this is the case, then the genuine work of Christ for the world in the heavenly temple is completely ignored. And that's not Jerusalem by any means. In regards to the plight of Islam, Daniel indicates that he will come to his end for the lack of support. Dan 11:45 From where I stand, cannot see Jerusalem or Turkey reviving for any reason, while the attack of the AC is directed at the mediation of Christ for sinners.