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About Persuaded

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  1. Persuaded

    Meanings of lists of names?

    First, I’m a fan of Missler’s, but I believe this is one of his over-reaches. My recollection is that he later regretted this sentence-from-the-names idea. It was based on a Hebrew root study, which is notoriously un-scholarly. Basically, it requires breaking large words into 2 and 3 letter assumed roots and then trying to infer a connotative meaning from the alternate meanings of those roots. The result is at least two rather large conjectural steps removed from the text itself. Setting aside the first step- breaking the words by “best guess” into roots- and to then maybe make a crude example of the next step: If, in English, I see that one of the roots is to “beat”, noting the word means either to mix (like an egg), or to punish, I can then take a phrase that talks about cake making and suggest it’s alternate meaning is really about Jesus’ lashes. Another way to express this is that it’s dangerous to try to translate by concordance or lexicon. There are often insights from those resources, but only if used with a knowledge of their limitations.
  2. Perhaps the "foolishness" is reducing the Sabbath rest to a day? [Heb 4:1-11 NKJV] 1 Therefore, since a promise remains of entering His rest, let us fear lest any of you seem to have come short of it. 2 For indeed the gospel was preached to us as well as to them; but the word which they heard did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in those who heard [it]. 3 For we who have believed do enter that rest, as He has said: "So I swore in My wrath, 'They shall not enter My rest,' " although the works were finished from the foundation of the world. 4 For He has spoken in a certain place of the seventh [day] in this way: "And God rested on the seventh day from all His works"; 5 and again in this [place]: "They shall not enter My rest." (The seventh day rest is different that the rest the Christian is implored to into into.) 6 Since therefore it remains that some [must] enter it, and those to whom it was first preached did not enter because of disobedience, 7 again He designates a certain day, saying in David, "Today," after such a long time, as it has been said: "Today, if you will hear His voice, Do not harden your hearts." (So neither God's seventh day rest, nor entering the land under Joshua, nor any other past event up and through the time of David, is the rest that is being talked about.) 8 For if Joshua had given them rest, then He would not afterward have spoken of another day. 9 There remains therefore a rest for the people of God. 10 For he who has entered His rest has himself also ceased from his [OWN!] works as God [did] from His. 11 Let us therefore be diligent to enter that rest, lest anyone fall according to the same example of disobedience. What does it mean to be "in" Christ? [Jhn 15:4-7 NKJV] 4 "Abide in Me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, unless it abides in the vine, neither can you, unless you abide in Me. 5 "I am the vine, you [are] the branches. He who abides in Me, and I in him, bears much fruit; for without Me you can do nothing. 6 "If anyone does not abide in Me, he is cast out as a branch and is withered; and they gather them and throw [them] into the fire, and they are burned. 7 "If you abide in Me, and My words abide in you, you will ask what you desire, and it shall be done for you. If we are to be in Christ, and we are to enter in to that rest that God has planned for us from the very beginning, do you see how those ideas are ... related?? -if not identical??? And that worrying about Saturdays or Sundays is a silly distraction from the real issue?
  3. Persuaded

    Is the Trinity like 1/3+1/3+1/3=1?

    I think we’re not supposed to post video links, but an amusing take on the trinity is on the Lutheran Satire site; search “St. Patrick’s Bad Analogies”...
  4. Persuaded

    The dead when Jesus returns

    Wow. I think a careful study of Deut18 is in order. The (OT) penalty for telling the future and getting it wrong, is death. This is the test of a true prophet- getting it right, always. God alone retains that attribute of knowing the end from the beginning, and He jealously preserves this identity and uniqueness. Scary stuff, to both foretell the future, AND to contradict the words of Jesus (Mark 13:32)
  5. Persuaded

    about a tithe

    1 Corinthians 3:14-15 (NKJV) 14 If anyone's work which he has built on it endures, he will receive a reward. 15 If anyone's work is burned, he will suffer loss; but he himself will be saved, yet so as through fire. When we give, we should recognize that we are stewards of the funds that we control, and will face an accountability. Our gifts will be rewarded by heavenly rewards if they have enduring, eternal results. We should measure the spiritual fruit of a ministry, not its need. Only a ministry showing evidence of the work of the Spirit can ever produce work that will endure through the fire and into the kingdom. We must not give blindly, but both prayerfully and intentionally. While God doesn’t need our gifts, He gives us the opportunity to bless others and to participate in His plan. It is good “long term planning” if we give with His goals in mind.
  6. Colossians 2:16-17 (NKJV) 16 So let no one judge you in food or in drink, or regarding a festival or a new moon or sabbaths, 17 which are a shadow of things to come, but the substance is of Christ. Sabbath observation is a personal commitment, instituted by God FOR man. If we let modern law-keepers get us worked up over it, it’s purpose is defeated. But the passage in Hebrews quoted further up the thread teaches the lesson that entering God’s rest is related to our obedience, and that not trusting God was what prevented the Israelites from entering the promised land, after the spies’ worrisome report (Numbers 13 & 14, or just 14:22-23). The rest available from God is not death -crossing Jordan (contrary to some of our hymns) is not going to heaven- but the land across the river was a model or type of that rest. The Sabbath is a similar picture of God's rest. I’ll suggest the blessing that God intends comes more from our trust in Him so that we realize we don’t need to work all seven days, than simply the benefit to us that a day off would provide. And for the Law-keepers, I hope you’re not ignoring the other side of the Sabbath law, that we work SIX days each week. Sorry, no more watching kid’s soccer games on Saturday! Exodus 20:9 (NKJV) Six days you shall labor and do all your work,
  7. Persuaded

    Best Book on Spiritual Warfare?

    Others have focused on NT themes, but the OT has some of the clearest examples of spiritual warfare in action: 2 Kings 6, when Elisha’s servant’s eyes are opened to the real conflict. Daniel 10, when Daniel is told about an angel’s struggle (apparently the struggle was supported by Daniel’s prayer and fasting- something to dwell on) with the power behind the worldly thrones of Daniel’s day, and afterward (Greece). Isaiah 14 and Ezekiel 28, where the narrative shifts from the local subject (king of Babylon, prince of Tyre) to the real power behind those thrones -Satan himself. Then, go read Ephesians 6...
  8. Persuaded

    Was mary "full of grace"?

    I'm pretty sure it was an uncomfortable family upbringing, all around. Jesus, even as a 12 year old, had an idea of who He was, while His brothers did not believe (John 7:4). James the apostle (son of Zebedee, brother of John) is killed at the beginning of Acts 12, and it is indeed James the brother of Jesus who is the guy that seems to be the head guy in Jerusalem, summarizing the decision in the 2nd half of Acts 12, and who later writes the epistle of James. Jude, the other brother of Jesus, also not one of the 12 and also (presumably from John 7) didn't believe until after the resurrection. It must have been hard on them later, to have spent their lives in denial about their big bro, only to realize much later that they had wasted so much time in their doubt.
  9. Persuaded

    1 John 3:2 / What does it mean to be like Him?

    "...for we shall see Him as He is." I like this part of that verse. However glorious we think He is now, we still aren't really seeing Him "as He is"- we don't yet have the equipment to see Him fully for all that He is. As the OP said, it will take an unimaginably glorious transformation for us to fully see Him "as He is".
  10. Persuaded

    Was mary "full of grace"?

    I think it's interesting that Mary gets used so often as the ball in the rugby match between those that see the Bible as the ultimate authority and those who see a man-made church in that role, yet both seem to rarely consider the life and plight of Mary, the woman. We that have accepted the biblical authority perhaps react too harshly against Mary, seeing the abuses done in her name -and they are many- that the catholics have done. First, it is absolutely scriptural to recognize that she was given the extreme honor and privilege of being chosen to be the earthly mother of the Messiah. We must not brush that fact aside and describe her as "the same as every other human". She was uniquely chosen by God and for that alone she deserves our respect. The fact that the catholics have gone too far -much too far- doesn't diminish the need to recognize the honor she received. But consider her life, afterward. Can you imagine the years she spent after the birth of Jesus, when everybody knew that Joseph was not the father? John 8:19 & 41 reflect this. In a culture where such evidence of adultery was punishable by death, can you imagine living in that small town where everybody knew each other's business; the gossip, the whispered slurs and shunned existence? She was chosen by God for honor, but I doubt she received much honor until much later in life, if at all. If it's true that 2 John was written to her as "the elect lady" (not known for sure, just an intriguing possibility), then at the end of her life she was still receiving encouragement and exhortation from John. As Christians, I hope we don't also choose to shun Mary, the person, as an over-reaction to the catholics.
  11. Persuaded

    Holy Humor

    A minister is attending a pastor's conference. He walks into the big room, and sees lots of big round tables with eight seats around each. He finds a table with empty seats, and asks the other pastors at the table if the empty seats are saved? One pastor replies, "Nope, they're not even under conviction!"
  12. Persuaded

    Where is the Body of Christ in the Millennium?

    E, Your post is all over the place, so I won't quote it. It must be understood is that no one, not anybody, that is judged by their works, will escape damnation. This is not the bema seat where rewards are handed out- it's the judgment throne, where sentence is given for failure to accept Christ's redemption. There's nothing confusing about the timing of Dan 12:1 for me to explain to help you understand that it is the trib. Sheesh, Jesus even quotes the verse in Mat 24 to describe the trib. There's no room in 12:1 to go looking for other verses to re-interpret it. "Faith in What", you ask. Well Paul tells us the gospel was preached before to Abraham. Gen 3:15 gives the first presentation of the gospel. The gospel is thoroughly presented by the time you get to Malachi. Hebrews 11 lists a pretty long list of OT folks whose faith saved them. Rom 4 shows that the Law saved no one. A snippet, but the whole chapter is worth reading: [Rom 4:13-15 NKJV] For the promise that he would be the heir of the world [was] not to Abraham or to his seed through the law, but through the righteousness of faith. For if those who are of the law [are] heirs, faith is made void and the promise made of no effect, because the law brings about wrath; for where there is no law [there is] no transgression. The names of church Christians are in the book of life. Yet we don't have to wait until the end of the mil to be resurrected. In the exact same way, other groups (OT saints, trib converts) whose names are in the book of life will be resurrected based upon the Lamb's knowledge of the list. Where is Moses now? Mat 17 shows that he isn't in the ground waiting for the GWT. I'm not sure why you're going on about the replacement stuff- I haven't said anything to suggest it. I think Israel will get a big enough bellyful of trouble from the trib, and don't see her role there as somehow also requiring her to wait until after the mil to be put to a test that no one can pass.
  13. Persuaded

    Where is the Body of Christ in the Millennium?

    E, your point 4 ignores the clear meaning of Dan 12, to substitute the timing from Rev. -when were names written in the book? -before the foundation of the world. -does any saved group have to wait until post-mil to find out if their names are in the book? -clearly God knows those names, and Dan 12 refers to this: "and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book." Doesn't say the book is opened, just like it isn't opened for you. The "at that time" phrase here is clearly trib timing, and saying otherwise based on some loose assumptions as to how this fits in somewhere else does real harm to your understanding. Doctrinally, it's important to understand that the only path to heaven has always been, will always be by grace through faith. The OT saints are no different. Don't rewrite doctrine to fit an eschatology scheme! Rom 3:20 Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law [is] the knowledge of sin. Paul is saying here, and throughout this passage, that the purpose of the law was to expose their inadequacy to keep it, and thus the need for a redeemer. OT saints were required to have faith in anticipation of the Messiah; we get the benefit of believing in the fact of the Messiah.
  14. Persuaded

    Where is the Body of Christ in the Millennium?

    I'm comfortable that this is easily refuted, and has been recently, (simply, adulterous pregnant wife does not equal virgin bride). I'll address something further up the thread... Everybody is/will be subject either to the first resurrection or the second death. The second death is for "the dead" who are brought before the GWT and judged "by their works". Scripture is clear that this is a 0% option, since all have sinned and the wages of sin is death. This is closer to a sentencing than a trial, or in olde west speak "they'll be given a fair trial and then theyll be hanged". No OT prophets, no pillars of faith past or present can withstand God's inspection. But they don't need to... Will Moses and Elijah be subject to the second death? -clearly not! Indeed Mat 17 places them in heaven, already (probably, but certainly after Christ's resurrection). So if they aren't subject to the second death, the only other category is the first resurrection. And that's what many casual readers miss- the first resurrection is a category, not an event. Part of our misconception comes from the clumsy way that Greek "protos" is handled in English as "first". Paralleling the lofty position of the heir (usually the firstborn), the word protos carries the same idea of honor, best, chiefest. The first resurrection certainly comes before the second death timewise, but it also vastly exceeds it in quality or character. The first resurrection has been available since at least the cross, through today, and through the trib. All who are in Christ are not subject to death, and don't meet the criteria for the GWT, being the resurrection of "the dead" (another category you want no part of!)
  15. Persuaded

    Is the Rapture Biblical?

    Angels aren't redeemed (5:10, and yes it's 'us' and 'we'! 'Them' and 'you' is one of Westcott/Hort's mutilations of scripture) Side note: the angels always "say"; only humans "sing". Music seems to be a form of worship reserved for us. -which I ruefully notice, being somewhat musically challenged myself...