Last Daze
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Days Won
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Everything posted by Last Daze
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How far from the presently recognized temple mount is the threshing floor that he has discovered?
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So are you thinking more of a tabernacle type structure (temple) where the man of sin declares himself to be God? Good connection between Daniel 12 and Matthew 24.
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And since the saints clearly go through the great tribulation, the rapture happens afterward, or post-tribulation. I think you're beginning to see it. Yes, we need to be careful.
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That's true, and as they say, "error begets error". In order to explain how there can be saints that go through the great tribulation when the church is supposedly no longer here, advocates of the pretrib fallacy have fabricated a "great revival" where somehow a great multitude of people beyond number will suddenly come to faith after a pretrib rapture. Of course, there is exactly zero biblical support for that notion. It was spawned of necessity in an effort to prop up the pretrib argument. It's concerning that people would fabricate things rather than accept what's plainly stated in scripture simply because they don't like it. Discern and prepare. There is no benefit in ignoring an unpleasant situation that will not ignore you. Be ready, as our Lord exhorted.
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I think we recently had a thread on this. In summary, my thought on it is that there will be both a natural and spiritual fulfillment. When Jesus used the word "understand" (let the reader understand) He usually meant to also look beyond the obvious application to a spiritual one. The natural implication of the "abomination which makes desolate" is the false prophet declaring to be God (abomination) and then attacking Israel sending them fleeing into the wilderness (making desolate). I don't think the "holy place" is necessarily a reference to a temple but it might be. The spiritual implication is shortly thereafter when everyone is mandated to worship the image (spiritual abomination) or be put to death (causing spiritual desolation). The false prophet attempts to enthrone himself as God in the hearts and minds of everyone, a place that he should not occupy. This natural / spiritual duality can be seen at the end of Revelation 12 where the dragon persecutes the woman who flees and is protected and then her offspring are attacked, those who hold to the testimony of Jesus. Found the thread.
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Yes, in this world we will have tribulation. That truth is plainly stated. It is because we are not of this world and the world hates us. Don't expect to escape tribulation, prepare to endure it. But the one who endures to the end, he will be saved. Matthew 24:13
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And you will continue to be confused and in amazement as long as you fail to distinguish between tribulation and wrath and what pertains to what. Exercise discernment.
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But the Lord will make a distinction between the livestock of Israel and the livestock of Egypt, so that nothing will die of all that belongs to the sons of Israel. Exodus 9:4 I do not ask You to take them out of the world, but to keep them from the evil one. . . . I do not ask on behalf of these alone, but for those also who believe in Me through their word. John 17:15,20 During the plagues, God made a distinction between those who would be affected and those who wouldn't. Taking believers out of the world doesn't seem to be the plan. Making a distinction and keeping us from the evil one, does.
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Your statement above assumes that pretribbers will have the wherewithal to realize that a pretrib rapture didn't happen. The eschatology of a lot of people I've met only goes as far as "glad I won't be here for all that." They've been taught the pretrib fallacy and don't see any reason to study further about something that they think is irrelevant. How will they come to realize that a pretrib rapture didn't happen when they have no idea what to expect? The body of Christ needs discernment and endurance in these last days.
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Perhaps those who are "in Christ", those in the first resurrection, are a subset of all believers of all times, i.e. the body of Christ. I'll have to give that a re-think.
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But if any of you lacks wisdom, let him ask of God, who gives to all generously and without reproach, and it will be given to him. James 1:5
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I don't agree with the delineation you're trying to make here. The Word has always existed. The fact that at some point He became a man and confirmed / began the new covenant doesn't mean that he didn't previously exist and that people weren't previously drawn to Him by the Father. They did not thirst when He led them through the deserts. He made the water flow out of the rock for them; He split the rock and the water gushed forth. Isaiah 48:21 And all drank the same spiritual drink, for they were drinking from a spiritual rock which followed them; and the rock was Christ. 1 Corinthians 10:4 It's always been about lifestyle worship; and it always will be. How we live reflects what we believe in. Always has. Those who believe in the Truth are "in Christ" regardless of which side of the incarnation they are on.
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I guess I'm not following you. When the 144k are first introduced in Revelation 7, do you see them as immortal?
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No need to stoke the emotions. Here is a plainly stated truth: But the one who endures to the end, he will be saved. Matthew 24:13 A word to the wise is sufficient.
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I'm not so sure I agree with this if you're implying that only NT saints take part in the first resurrection. What did Jesus do for three days and nights in the belly of the earth? Therefore it says, “When He ascended on high, He led captive a host of captives, And He gave gifts to men.” Now this expression, “He ascended,” what does it mean except that He also had descended into the lower parts of the earth? He who descended is Himself also He who ascended far above all the heavens, so that He might fill all things. Ephesians 4:8-10 When Jesus ascended, which captives did He lead captive? 1 Peter 3:19 states that He made proclamation to spirits in prison. Those captives?
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I guess it depends on whether you see them raised from the dead or raised immortal.
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I don't disagree that this is possible. I'm curious though as to why you can't see the same possibility for the 144,000 just before the seven plagues? I find it highly unlikely, though not impossible, for all 144,000 first-fruits to come from the last generation before Christ's return.
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I think its important to remember that those who put on immortality and are caught up to the clouds just before Armageddon are immortal at that point. Of what consequence is time and space to an immortal?
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From what I understand, tithing was to support the priesthood and was specific to Israel. New testament giving I see as: Now this I say, he who sows sparingly will also reap sparingly, and he who sows bountifully will also reap bountifully. Each one must do just as he has purposed in his heart, not grudgingly or under compulsion, for God loves a cheerful giver. And God is able to make all grace abound to you, so that always having all sufficiency in everything, you may have an abundance for every good deed. 2 Corinthians 9:6-8 Give cheerfully as you have predetermined. Don't rationalize buying that *whatever* if it causes a compromise in your giving.
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I agree. God wants us to worship Him in Spirit and truth. It's a lifestyle, not a once a week thing. I personally esteem each day alike. One person regards one day above another, another regards every day alike. Each person must be fully convinced in his own mind. Romans 14:5
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No, it only means that more pretribbers were willing to cast a meaningless vote.
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It's meant to appeal to the emotion, which is in keeping with the whole pre-trib fallacy. It only persuades those who wish it to be true, not those who look at things objectively.
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I agree that a lot of people fall into that category but when it is shown to them, with direct scriptural support, time and time again and they continue to reject it, something else is at work.
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Realizing that truth was the beginning of the dismantling of the pretrib fallacy for me.
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It's difficult for those who engage in critical thinking to understand how some can pull scripture out of context and misapply it in an attempt to support their viewpoint, especially when they seem to, like you say, have a high standard for accuracy and the authority of scripture. It's difficult to understand because, honestly, it's irrational. It's the same kind of irrational that causes someone who is deeply in love to reject a bad report about their lover even though the report is observably true. It's an emotional attachment that sets aside what is rational in favor of what is desired.
