Last Daze

The beast who comes up out of the abyss is an evil spirit being. During his first appearance millennia ago, he brought us what we know as Rome. His end time appearance will produce a global government that the man of sin will rule over. He is not geographically bound to Rome. It is this evil spirit who overcomes the two witnesses. The two witnesses are aided in their activities with help from angels of God. The "spirit of Elijah" is not simply a reference to his demeanor. He rested on John the Baptist, and will play a role in the coming judgment plagues.

Don't confuse death with sleep. Sleep comes after death. Everyone dies. For as in Adam all die, so also in Christ all will be made alive. 1 Cor 15:22

Babylon, the influence of Satan's kingdom on humanity, is manifested in the last days (since Christ) as the Harlot, apostate Israel. The beast and the ten horns will destroy the Harlot because she has become an impediment to their agenda of exalting the man of sin as God who exercises dominion over the world. When the Harlot is thrown down, and her vileness is exposed, people are called to take stock of the influence that the Harlot may have had in their lives and repent of that which needs to be repented of. That is the call to come out of Babylon. People need to discern the times because shortly after the Harlot is cast down, the time of great tribulation ensues.

I'll take that as a "no"

Did you watch the video in the OP? It's really quite interesting: https://www.worthychristianforums.com/topic/246899-jerusalem-as-armageddon/

I think it has more to do with the transliteration of the proper noun in Rev 16:16, the lack of an equivalent sounding letter for a guttural.

This verse indicates that Matthew 24 addresses the body of Christ: “Then they will hand you over to tribulation and kill you, and you will be hated by all nations because of My name." Matthew 24:9 According to your views, the people of Israel are going to be hated by all nations because of the name of Jesus. The people of Israel largely reject Jesus. Why would they be killed because of Jesus' name? Makes no sense. Be ready for the coming time of great tribulation. Trust in the Lord and do not be conformed to the things of this world. The mark and the image will reveal who it is that people love. The pre-trib rapture is a false hope. Stay awake and be on the alert.

I already answered that. You do know that chapters and verses weren't in the original manuscripts, don't you?

It's found in Daniel 7:21 for starters. And when you read the narrative found in Revelation 12 and 13 you see at the end of Revelation 12 the dragon "went off to make war with the rest of her children, who keep the commandments of God and hold to the testimony of Jesus." Revelation 13 gives details of that war to include the mark and image.

Thanks for your thoughts. I don't disagree with you here, or with the others who have stated a similar view. My point is that the enduring that Jesus states in Matthew 24 is specific to the end times. That enduring has been identified to be the war against the saints brought about by the man of sin through the image and the mark. Stay awake and be on the alert.

I tie it to this one: “Behold, I am coming like a thief. Blessed is the one who stays awake and keeps his clothes, so that he will not walk about naked and people will not see his shame.” Rev 16:15 The return of Jesus at the seventh plague. Those who repented during the plagues and held fast until His return are blessed. They will inherit the earth.

I agree. Revelation 12 flows right into 13 and should be read as one continuous account. At the end of Rev 12, the dragon sets off to wage war against those who "keep the commandments of God and hold to the testimony of Jesus." Rev 13 describes how that takes place using the mark and the image. The image is a code of conduct that worships the man of sin as God. The mark is just a means of expediting the implementation of the image. It is the image that must be obeyed under the penalty of death. Refusing to worship the image is a testimony of Christ's lordship in one's life. I'm sure there will also be verbal testimony as well.

Nothing bothers me about enduring to the end. Not sure why you think there is. I know there's no pre-trib rapture. That's just a false hope like MAGA is a false hope. I'm just pointing out that it's the time of great tribulation for believers that we must endure; the time when people will be martyred for refusing the mark and the image.

As you can see from this quote, overcoming and enduring are two different things.

They just might be linked.

We know that the passage concerns the time of Christ's return. There is a very specific thing in the end times that requires endurance and perseverance. It is stated twice: If anyone is destined for captivity, to captivity he goes; if anyone kills with the sword, with the sword he must be killed. Here is the perseverance and the faith of the saints. Revelation 13:10 And the smoke of their torment ascends forever and ever; they have no rest day and night, those who worship the beast and his image, and whoever receives the mark of his name.” Here is the perseverance of the saints who keep the commandments of God and their faith in Jesus. Revelation 14:11-12 The end time perseverance / endurance has to do with the mark and the image. Its how war is waged against the saints. Something to think about.

And because lawlessness is increased, most people’s love will become cold. But the one who endures to the end is the one who will be saved. Matthew 24:12-13 Specifically, endures what? And to what end?

And we know that Satan entered Judas. I'm curious as to what you've come across that would suggest another appearance of Judas, whether he's brought back to life or someone pretending to be him. This is what I've noticed: * Satan entered Judas. The false prophet speaks like a dragon (Satan) indicating possession. Rev 13:11 * Judas went to his own place. Acts 1:25. What place is that? * Jesus calls him a devil. John 6:70. Interesting choice of words. * Deceived people wonder about something they see that harkens back to the first century or before. Rev 17:9. The man of sin convincing people that he is Judas could be used to negate the validity of the entire New Testament to the deceived.

I guess we all look through the same glass dimly and see different things. The demons begged Jesus not to be cast into the abyss. It must have been possible. Also Daniel 7 suggests some abyssal activity. Sometimes you have to read between the lines. Agree, fortunately we've been told ahead of time what to expect. Jesus is God and if you personally didn't see Him return, He didn't, regardless of whatever signs and wonders are used to try and convince you otherwise.

Thanks Marv. Satan is the dragon, not the beast. People wonder at the beast.

Thanks for your thoughts Dennis. I see the above as a reference to the evil angel prince of Rome who caused Rome to exercise dominion, who tried (along with Judas and Satan) to stop the Christ and failed, who was then cast into the abyss while the gospel was preached around the world. He has been released in these last days and leads the spiritual forces of wickedness in setting the stage for the return of Satan possessed Judas. They're picking up where they left off in the first century however, their goal is different this time around as laid out in Rev 12 & 13.

I can agree that things are going to get much more bizarre, even more than the current gaslighting. What I find fascinating about Revelation 17:8-9 is why the people wonder. It's stated that they wonder because "he was, and is not, and will come." There's something that ties him to the first century or before that people will recognize. It is true that the man of sin deceives the world because of the signs it is given him to perform, but this wonderment stems from something different.

One thought that I've had centers around archeology. Whether Judas is raised from the dead for this specific purpose, or someone claims to be Judas is not the point. Getting people to believe that the man of sin is Judas is what matters and that might be accomplished through some archeological revelation. What better way to cast doubt on the entire New Testament than to deceive people into thinking that Jesus failed, and who better than an "immortal" Judas to "set the record straight"?

I'm curious as to what other people think about the following passage, specifically, what do they see that makes them wonder: * The beast that you saw was, and is not, and is about to come up out of the abyss and go to destruction. And those who live on the earth, whose names have not been written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, will wonder when they see the beast, that he was, and is not, and will come. Rev 17:8-9 Here's what we know: * The beast comes up out of the abyss, a prison for evil spirit beings. * When Revelation was written, the beast was not active but he previously had been (was, and is not). * The wonder results from deception because unbelievers are the ones who wonder. The believers are not deceived, they don't wonder. * Their wondering has something to do with the beast's prior manifestation. My thoughts are that this beast is the evil angel prince that caused Rome to exercise dominion. He worked in concert with Satan and Judas to kill the Messiah. To my knowledge, Judas was the only person in the Bible who Satan personally entered (Luke 22:3). Judas is called the son of perdition (John 17:12), a title also used for the man of sin. I think there will be a reunion of these three in the not too distant future. The question is, "what do they show people?" It's apparently something recognizable from history attributable to Rome, the beast's previous activity.

Exactly. What we're seeing today is beyond the scope of human ability alone.