Last Daze

You never asked me any questions and I'm not aware of anyone else online who teaches what I've stated here. So, your claim to have found "my teacher" is bogus. I'm afraid that it's you who has yet to answer me. You are the one who has not been forthcoming with an explanation of this statement that you made. For the third time, explain who the beast is what his mark is that is "already happening." Why are you unwilling to support your statement? Why are you being so dodgy and evasive? Those are characteristics of a deceiver.

Are you saying that if a person rejects God one time that that person has blasphemed the Holy Spirit?

Not really interested in your half-baked cheap shot insults. If you want to discuss scripture then try quoting some once in a while. I'm still waiting on your explanation of this statement of yours: Please identify the beast and the mark you are speaking of that's "already happening."

Thanks SinnerSaved. We agree on several points. I agree that not everyone will be saved. I agree that taking the mark and worshipping the image is a sin. I agree that those who take the mark have failed to persevere and endure. I agree that those worshipping the image are objects of the seven plague judgments. What I don't agree with is that those who take the mark can not repent and be forgiven. I don't find any scriptural support for it. What I find is: “Therefore I say to you, any sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven people, but blasphemy against the Spirit shall not be forgiven." Matthew 12:31 Either that's a true statement or its not. Receiving the mark and worshipping the image, while a sin, is not blasphemy of the Holy Spirit and can consequently be forgiven. Again, the question is whether or not the deceived people of the world will see through the ruse of the false prophet and repent. It's my belief that the plagues and the 144,000 are there to lead people to repentance. It's in keeping with God's character and word. There will come a point during the plagues when people's hearts are hardened to the point of no repentance. Those are the ones whose torment continues forever, just like everyone else down through the ages who has steadfastly rejected salvation and forgiveness through Jesus Christ. Whoever calls on the name of the Lord will be saved. I'm not advocating gaming the system" or anything like that. There's no justification for taking the mark or worshipping the image. It's a sin, but it's forgivable, according to scripture.

If everyone's fate is sealed during the great tribulation by either accepting or rejecting the mark then what is the point of the seven plagues? Why drag it out? Do you think God delights in torture? If there is no possibility of repentance then why state that whoever calls on the name of the Lord will be saved? The plagues are judgments for those who are worshipping the image. Eternal wrath is for those who persist in worshipping the image to the end. Receiving the mark is a sin. It is acknowledging as God someone who is not God. It is a one-time occurrence. Worshipping the image is a lifestyle that demonstrates allegiance to that false god. The plagues are designed to demonstrate the error of worshipping the image and convince people to repent. Tell me, who is Jesus speaking of here as the armies gather together at Armageddon? “Behold, I am coming like a thief. Blessed is the one who stays awake and keeps his clothes, so that he will not walk about naked and men will not see his shame.” Revelation 16:15 Who is it that will be blessed for staying awake and keeping their clothes just before His return?

I agree. The plagues are for those who have aligned themselves with the false prophet by receiving his mark and worshipping the image. Eternal torment is for those who refuse to repent.

Is the "mark" you're referring to here the same as the mark described in Revelation 13:16-17? If not, who is the beast and what is the mark you're talking about?

I'm in no way advocating taking the mark or any other sin. Taking the mark aligns one with the kingdom of Satan. I'm just saying that those who are deceived into taking it are not irreversibly damned to hell for that one sin. If anyone who receives the mark is convicted by the chastisement of the plagues and calls on the name of the Lord for forgiveness, they will be saved. Let's look at the context again: 20 ‘The sun will be turned into darkness And the moon into blood, Before the great and glorious day of the Lord shall come. 21 ‘And it shall be that everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.’ Acts 2:20-21 Verse 20 is the sixth seal. What follows is the seventh seal which has the seven plagues.

I'll quote it again as it seems you missed it: ‘And it shall be that everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.’ Acts 2:21 This refers to the time subsequent to the great tribulation after people have decided whether to take the mark or not. For people to repent is God's desire. Do I have any pleasure in the death of the wicked,” declares the Lord God, “rather than that he should turn from his ways and live? Ezekiel 18:23 The Lord is not slow about His promise, as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, not wishing for any to perish but for all to come to repentance. 2 Peter 3:9 Yes, there will be those who remain steadfast in their rebellion against God and there will come a point when people no longer repent but that doesn't happen until after the first four plagues. If people who receive the mark can not repent then why doesn't God destroy them immediately after the sixth seal, after everyone has made their decision? Does He delight in torturing the wicked or are the plagues a call to repent? Which fits God's character, torture or repentance? Yes, I'll stick with the Word.

I agree. So many people just leave it at Megiddo.

I agree. It's easy to lose sight of the supernatural / natural connection, the cause and effect if you will. The unseen is eternal and influences the seen. Both can be called by the same name e.g. Babylon, but context will determine if the reference is to the spiritual cause or the natural effect.

I agree that receiving or rejecting the mark will indicate whose kingdom someone chooses. It is a time for the saints to persevere and endure. I see the "laws" you mention to be the image. Receiving the "chip", or whatever it winds up being, is a one-time event and worshiping the image (obeying the laws) is an ongoing lifestyle. So, we're pretty close on that point. I disagree though that you can't turn back. Receiving the mark is not blasphemy of the Holy Spirit. The question is whether or not the deceived people of the world will yield to God's judgment of the first four plagues and call on the name of the Lord to be saved. ‘The sun will be turned into darkness And the moon into blood, Before the great and glorious day of the Lord shall come. ‘And it shall be that everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.’ Acts 2:20-21

Good point.

That doesn't make sense. And when the dragon saw that he was thrown down to the earth, he persecuted the woman who gave birth to the male child. But the two wings of the great eagle were given to the woman, so that she could fly into the wilderness to her place, where she was nourished for a time and times and half a time, from the presence of the serpent. And the serpent poured water like a river out of his mouth after the woman, so that he might cause her to be swept away with the flood. But the earth helped the woman, and the earth opened its mouth and drank up the river which the dragon poured out of his mouth. So the dragon was enraged with the woman, and went off to make war with the rest of her children, who keep the commandments of God and hold to the testimony of Jesus. Revelation 12:13-17 So, those who keep the commandments of God and hold to the testimony of Jesus are the offspring of the woman in Rev 17? And on her forehead a name was written, a mystery, “BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND OF THE ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH.” Revelation 17:5 How are those who hold to the testimony of Jesus and keep the commandments of God harlots and abominations? Can you elaborate?

Yes, the beast that comes out of the sea in Rev 13 looks quite different from when he came up out of the sea in Daniel 7. The 10 horns are common between the two appearances but there is the addition of Satan's seven heads and attributes from the other beasts of Daniel 7 as you mention. I think the answer lies in this verse you quoted: And the dragon gave him [the beast] his power and his throne and great authority. Revelation 13:2b The seven heads of the dragon have crowns and represent Satan's throne and authority. This is how the beast from the sea acquired the seven heads that weren't present in Daniel 7. Satan essentially gives this evil angel beast temporary charge while he enters the false prophet to deceive the world and wage war against the saints. I think this notion is reinforced by the beast from the sea having the attributes of the other three beasts of Daniel 7. They've given their power to him as well, doing his bidding.

A cursory glance of that word usage shows that it is translated (KJV) mountain or mount 62 times and hill 3 times. It shows to have come from a word that means "a rising." The whole "city on seven hills" notion is kind of silly as BlindSeeker points out. Mountains are metaphors for kingdoms, and in this case, these "risings" result from supernatural princes.

I also like adding these passages to help broaden our understanding of "the" Holy Spirit. Out from the throne come flashes of lightning and sounds and peals of thunder. And there were seven lamps of fire burning before the throne, which are the seven Spirits of God. Revelation 4:5 And I saw between the throne (with the four living creatures) and the elders a Lamb standing, as if slain, having seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven Spirits of God, sent out into all the earth. Revelation 5:6 Some truths are just beyond our finite ability to fully comprehend.

The seven heads with seven crowns belong to Satan. Revelation 12:3 The beast with 10 horns from Daniel 7 has no mention of seven heads. However, he is seen in Revelation with the additional seven heads. Why? How did this beast acquire the seven heads which are Satan's? This is the biggest clue, in my opinion, as to understanding the seven kingdoms / kings. Another tidbit I find necessary is making the distinction between the fallen angels that spawn these kingdoms and the kingdoms themselves. The beast is not the worldly kingdom, he is the cause of that kingdom. The worldly kingdom is the effect.

It's both a city and all that is in the world.

I likewise only see three specific times of war in the end times. The second seal, which I still see as future. The battle of Armageddon The post-millennial war As far as who represents Gog, how far north is north, and which war is which, etc. . . . . I'll just wait and see.

For your consideration: As for you, O king, while on your bed your thoughts turned to what would take place in the future; and He who reveals mysteries has made known to you what will take place. Daniel 2:29 [the great statue] These great beasts, which are four in number, are four kings who will arise from the earth. Daniel 7:17 [the four beasts] Both prophecies speak about the future. Based on the first passage, its not necessary that all of the prophecy be future since Babylon was the ruling kingdom. I agree with Trevor that they speak of the same kingdoms. The great statue is from the natural perspective, how these kingdoms are manifested in the natural realm. The four beasts prophecy is from a supernatural perspective and focuses on the evil angel princes that spawn these earthly kingdoms.

I agree that truth is being ignored and people are giving preference to what they want to hear, itchy ears and all and many are leaving the faith. However, I think "the" apostasy will be clearly manifested when the "worship or die" ultimatum is issued and the great tribulation begins. “Then they will deliver you to tribulation, and will kill you, and you will be hated by all nations because of My name. At that time many will fall away and will betray one another and hate one another. Matthew 24:9-10 So while the effects of deception are leading people away from God and causing a measure of apostasy, "the apostasy" occurs during the great tribulation.

Given the ultimatum, I think "forced" is appropriate. And it was given to him to give breath to the image of the beast, so that the image of the beast would even speak and cause as many as do not worship the image of the beast to be killed. Revelation 13:15

The "harlot church" aka "the ungodly" worship the lust of the flesh, the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life. People either love the world or they love God. You can't serve two masters. The events of the last days will bring to light who people serve and worship. Everyone will be forced to declare it by their actions.

As I see it, the U.N. created the state of Israel by resolution in 1948. The gathering of Israelis back to the state is on-going.