dscapp

Scripture please. If so, do they remain there. Probably not.

Luke 16:19-31 parable is a fictional story that uses real places to describe a person's relationship with God. It is not proof of the afterlife between death and the first resurrection. Why am I not surprised in your reply? I see you have no serious reply at all. Well, the majority of christians don't understand what a parable is so they take it out of context. Luke 16:19-31 has nothing to do with the afterlife.

No, it's not a commandment. Where in the 10 commandments do you see that water baptism is required for salvation? http://www.backtothebible.org/index.php/Q-Is-water-baptism-necessary-for-salvation-in-Christ.html Q: Is water baptism necessary for salvation in Christ? A: To answer this, let's look at an article by Robert Gromacki, entitled Repent and Be Baptized. On the Day of Pentecost, Peter stood before a large crowd of Jews and declared: "Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit" (Acts 2:38). A reader has indicated that this verse has caused much confusion and seems to imply that water baptism is required for salvation. There is a great difference between the real, intended meaning of a verse and its implied meaning. Implied understanding is based upon the first reading of a passage, but the correct interpretation can be gained only through a serious study of the verse itself, its context, and its relationship to the clear teaching of Scripture found elsewhere. Several church groups believe in baptismal regeneration; teaching that both repentant faith and water baptism are essential prerequisites to personal salvation. To such groups, one must be baptized in water for the express purpose of gaining the remission of sins. A person thus expresses his faith in and through the necessary baptismal rite, not apart from it. These groups definitely point to Acts 2:38 as one of their supporting passages. Our reader has asked for an answer to the claim of these groups. By following five steps, we can show that this verse does not teach that water baptism is essential to personal salvation. Grammar The grammar of the verse indicates that only repentance is required to receive the remission of sins. Here is my translation of the verse from the Greek, using some extra words to bring out some key differences not observable in the English text: "Repent [you, plural], and let each one [singular] of you be baptized [singular], upon the name of Jesus Christ into the remission of sins, and you will receive [you, plural] the gift of the Holy Spirit." The command to repent and the promise to receive are both plural verbs. The command to be baptized is singular. The imperative ("let each one of you be baptized") is parenthetical. Peter's actual command was: "Repent . . . upon the name of Jesus Christ into the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit." Peter gave the audience only one thing to do in order to receive the remission of sins. There was only one direct command: "Repent [you, plural]." Some other commentators approach the verse in a different way. They focus on the word "for" in the phrase "for the remission of sins." This word is a preposition (eis in Greek), normally translated as "into." But it can also be translated as "because of" or "on the basis of." In Matthew 12:41, Christ stated that the men of Nineveh "repented at the preaching of Jonah." The word "at" is the preposition eis, translated as "for" in Acts 2:38. Obviously the men of Nineveh did not repent to get the preaching of Jonah. Rather, they repented because Jonah had preached. The preaching occurred before the repentance. Likewise, the remission of sins in Acts 2:38 happened before the practice of water baptism. Both of these views present acceptable alternatives to the view of baptismal regeneration. Immediate Context Second, the immediate context of the verse shows that only repentant faith is needed to gain divine forgiveness. Earlier in his message, Peter quoted from Joel (Acts 2:16-20) and concluded with that Old Testament prophet's evangelistic appeal: "And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved" (v. 21). In the Old Testament period, people became saved by calling upon Jehovah-God. They acknowledged their sinful need, believed that only God could deliver them, and placed their trust in Him. They did not submit to water baptism. If Peter meant that baptism was essential to salvation, then why did he quote from Joel? The reference would be irrelevant. Later, Peter demonstrated that Jesus Christ was the One, the Lord-God, upon whom his audience should call in repentant faith. God the Father authenticated Christ through His miracles, death, resurrection and ascension into heaven (vv. 22-35). Peter then said: "Therefore let the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ" (v. 36). The context later states: "Then they that gladly received his word were baptized" (v. 41). What was the word they received? It was the content of Peter's sermon in which he demonstrated the deity and messiahship of Jesus Christ and the necessity to call upon Him for salvation. When they called upon Christ, they repented. That act of faith brought the remission of sins. They were then individually baptized to show their new identification with Christ. Greater Context Third, the greater context of the Book of Acts reveals that only repentant faith is the basis of securing divine forgiveness. Later, in his sermon at Solomon's Porch within the Temple, Peter appealed to the crowd; "Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out" (Acts 3:19). There is no mention of water baptism here as a requirement for the removal of sins. When Peter stood before the unsaved religious leaders who had just imprisoned the apostles, he proclaimed: "The God of our fathers raised up Jesus, whom ye slew and hanged on a tree. Him hath God exalted with his right hand to be a Prince and a Savior, for to give repentance to Israel, and forgiveness of sins" (5:30,31). Please note that repentance and forgiveness are joined. The human cause of salvation is repentance, and the divine effect is forgiveness. When Peter explained the Gospel to the family of Cornelius, he stated: "To him [Christ] give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins" (10:43). That verse is extremely clear and simple. And the same person who spoke Acts 2:38 spoke Acts 10:43. Peter, thus, is his own best interpreter. When Cornelius' family heard those gracious words, they believed, received divine forgiveness, and were filled with the Holy Spirit (v. 44). These divine blessings came as a result of a faith-only experience. Although Cornelius and his house were baptized later, they were not baptized to receive the remission of sins. They already had that spiritual reality. Later Peter explained to the Christians at Jerusalem the operation of God and the conversion of Cornelius and his family. They responded by glorifying God and saying: "Then hath God also to the Gentiles granted repentance unto life" (11:18). Paul definitely indicated that water baptism plays no part in the securing of redemption. He exclaimed at Antioch in Pisidia: "Be it known unto you therefore, men and brethren, that through this man is preached unto you the forgiveness of sins: And by him all that believe are justified from all things" (13:38,39). Add to that declaration the truth that Paul wrote to the Corinthians: "For Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel" (1 Cor. 1:17). Please note the juxtaposition between baptism and the Gospel message. Baptism is not an essential part of the Gospel. Submission to water baptism is a requirement for obedience after salvation (Matt. 28:18-20), but it is not a prerequisite to spiritual regeneration. Ministry of John the Baptist Fourth, Peter's statement in Acts 2:38 can be interpreted in the light of the ministry of John the Baptist. The forerunner of Christ preached: "Repent ye: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand" (Matt. 3:2). Mark wrote that John proclaimed "the baptism of repentance for the remission of sins" (Mark 1:4). Three features are common between this verse and Peter's appeal: baptism, repentance and remission of sins. But what actually secures the remission of sins? It is the repentance that produces the divine forgiveness. Water baptism is simply the outward sign or mode through which the believing sinner confesses the fact that he has already been forgiven through repentant faith in the saving Person and work of Christ. Doctrine of Salvation Fifth, the doctrine of salvation, taught throughout all of the Scriptures and evidenced in all dispensations and ages, stresses that only repentant faith is necessary to be justified and to receive divine forgiveness. Abraham "believed in the Lord; and [God] counted it to him for righteousness" (Gen. 15:6). From one age to another, the means of getting saved has remained the same. That is why New Testament writers often refer to Old Testament characters as examples of faith. To teach that water baptism is essential to salvation in this Church Age is to say that God has changed the method to gain justification. Dear readers, rejoice in the truth: "For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God" (Eph. 2:8).

Luke 16:19-31 parable is a fictional story that uses real places to describe a person's relationship with God. It is not proof of the afterlife between death and the first resurrection. London Bridge is broken down, Broken down, broken down. London Bridge is broken down, My fair lady. Build it up with wood and clay, Wood and clay, wood and clay, Build it up with wood and clay, My fair lady. Wood and clay will wash away, Wash away, wash away, Wood and clay will wash away, My fair lady. Build it up with bricks and mortar, Bricks and mortar, bricks and mortar, Build it up with bricks and mortar, My fair lady. Bricks and mortar will not stay, Will not stay, will not stay, Bricks and mortar will not stay, My fair lady. Build it up with iron and steel, Iron and steel, iron and steel, Build it up with iron and steel, My fair lady. Iron and steel will bend and bow, Bend and bow, bend and bow, Iron and steel will bend and bow, My fair lady. Build it up with silver and gold, Silver and gold, silver and gold, Build it up with silver and gold, My fair lady. Silver and gold will be stolen away, Stolen away, stolen away, Silver and gold will be stolen away, My fair lady. Set a man to watch all night, Watch all night, watch all night, Set a man to watch all night, My fair lady. Suppose the man should fall asleep, Fall asleep, fall asleep, Suppose the man should fall asleep? My fair lady. Give him a pipe to smoke all night, Smoke all night, smoke all night, Give him a pipe to smoke all night, My fair lady.

Notice the eunuch also had faith that Jesus was Lord. If you don't have faith, you will simply remain a nonbeliever with wet hair and clothes. For example, a lot of parents baptize their babies in water but of course they do not have the capability to believe yet. Water is simply a symbol, faith comes first then water if you so desire. It's a religious tradition that is not needed anymore. Jesus died, so his blood is what saves, not water. Water gives the parent peace of mind I suppose.

Does this bother anyone else, I mean seriously. One day the headlines could read, 'The Seven Year Great Tribulation Has Begun' ..but wait,.......watch this Toys R' Us advertisement before the video pops up.

that we should be baptized in water? Where in the paragraph does it say that.

Better yet, prove through scripture that Hades does not mean the grave. There is no reason to search all through scripture where it mentions hell. It's not about scripture, it's about defining words and what they mean.

I already did. I told him the proof is in the Greek definition of Hades. The Greek definition of Hades is the grave. What other proof do you need. https://www.teknia.com/search/node/Hades%20type%3Alexicon

......aaaaaaannnnnnnddddddd this is why I'm not having kids. Cheers.

Following his commandments and being baptized by water are two different topics. I'm referring to water baptism, not faith baptism. Water baptism does not save you, only Jesus does by Grace through faith. Matt 3:11 "I baptize you with water for repentance. But after me comes one who is more powerful than I, whose sandals I am not worthy to carry. He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire.

You're gonna have to search the scriptures on your own my friend, the word Hades is everywhere. The proof is in the Greek context. Well yes, you do need faith and the holy spirit also, but the original text of the Bible was written in Hebrew, and yes Aramaic and also Greek. This is also the work of the Holy Spirit.

No it is not a religious ritual. It is an ordinance that Jesus commanded us to do. It is needed because it is an act of obedience to the Lord. Where does Jesus say water baptism is a requirement for faith salvation.

To understand scripture is to understand Greek. The only time Hades is used as a place of torment is in the parable of Luke 16:19-31. But that parable cannot be taken literal, rather only figuratively. Greek dictionary.. https://www.teknia.com/search/node/Hades

There is no proof in scripture. Hades is the grave, the abode of the dead without consciousness. This is where all people believers and nonbelievers go after death to await eternal judgment. This is not purgatory, because you need to be conscious for it to be purgatory. And yet... Luk 23:42 And he said, "Jesus, remember me when you come into your kingdom." Luk 23:43 And he said to him, "Truly, I say to you, today you will be with me in Paradise." And yet, there were no commas or punctuation in the original text. Luke 23:43 is translator bias.

Water baptism is a religious ritual that is not needed. To be saved, one must have faith that Jesus is Lord and God in the flesh. Romans 10:9. In my honest opinion, it's very rare for a child to do this until they reach adulthood. But I'm not one to judge so...

Alright fine, I'll stay away from churches. I'll stay home and watch General Hospital, at least I'll be safe there.

There is no proof in scripture. Hades is the grave, the abode of the dead without consciousness. This is where all people believers and nonbelievers go after death to await eternal judgment. This is not purgatory, because you need to be conscious for it to be purgatory.

To understand how he died for all sins is to understand the love of God. I'm not sure the human mind can really wrap its thoughts around that. All you need is faith.

I agree. Rev 22:11 Let the evildoer still do evil, and the filthy still be filthy, and the righteous still do right, and the holy still be holy.”

news articles like this are a threat to everything we hold dear, because they reflect the new mentality of our culture. What do you suggest I do then. Go on forums and just talk about it?

Well, CNN and its comment section is mostly run by nonbelievers anyways. It's hard to take them seriously.

Thank you ccm. Blessings sister.

I understand your frustration, believe me. It's hard to find good teachers out there. I'm also sorry you had a bad experience on that forum. Regardless of rapture beliefs, people have knowledge of scripture that can also be brought to our attention. The Bible is a very prophetic book, and there is so much more to learn. But in regards to Psalm 83 and Ezekiel 38-39, this guy knows his stuff. I guess what I'm trying to say is that he's done his homework, and I can respect that. In every instance he backs up everything he says with scripture. The end times is not as simple as it may seem, there are certain players at stake on this chess board that haven't been moved yet. Scripture uses biblical names to describe certain nations and places, and he reveals what nation is speaking of what biblical name (things like that). There's just a lot to learn about scripture, and Bill clearly knows more than most. Don't give up on this guy just yet. Check out his work (then respond). One more thing to point out is that Bill doesn't mention anything about the rapture in this book (or at least I can't remember him doing so). He specifically focuses on Psalm 83 and Ezekiel 38:39, and finding books on these topics is not easy. I would think it's better to read what others write then to fumble around scripture on our own. That way we know at least where the author is coming from, and we can make an honest decision. - ds

So you disagree with his rapture beliefs and toss out any knowledge he has of Psalm 83 or Ezekiel 38-39? That's pretty harsh. Regardless of his rapture beliefs he is still knowing in other areas, maybe if you give the book a chance you might learn something about end times.