Watching for Jesus

Hi Retrobyter, I will give you my opinion. Jesus will come on the day of the Lord (one twenty-four hour day) when the seventh trumpet sounds. He will gather His elect as shown in Matthew 24:29-31, Mark 13:24-27 and Luke 21:27-28. This is the gathering of the bride for the wedding. He will then go down to fight against the nations that are coming against the land of Israel; the Battle of Armageddon (Zechariah 12, 13 and 14; and Ezekiel 38-39). He will stain his clothes in the great winepress of the wrath of God. This is shown in Isaiah 63 and Revelation 14:14-20. Joel also shows events of the day of the Lord. After He has defeated the nations that are coming against the land of Israel and slain the wicked and evil people (where He will stain His vesture red), He will take His bride up to the Father in heaven. There will be a period of five months after the day of the Lord has ended when those that are left on the earth will feel the effects of God's wrath (Revelation 9:5-6). After the five months of torment on earth are over, the marriage of the Lamb will take place in heaven (Revelation 19). The return of Jesus on the white horses will follow the wedding. Jesus stained His vesture on the day of the Lord, five months earlier. The beast and the false prophet were defeated on the day of the Lord, but not destroyed. When Jesus returns on the white horses the beast and the false prophet will be taken and eventually thrown into the lake of fire (Revelation 19:20). The remnant of the armies of the beast will be slain at that time (Revelation 19:21).

I agree with you Sister that the abomination of desolation is close to the end of the "tribulation". If my interpretation of Daniel 12:11-12 is correct: Daniel 12:11 And from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up, there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days. 12 Blessed is he that waiteth, and cometh to the thousand three hundred and five and thirty days. The daily sacrifice will be taken away and then 1,290 days later, the abomination of desolation will be set up. Forty-five days later will be the "blessed is he who waiteth and cometh to" day; the 1,335th day of that timeline. The 1,335th day will be the day that Jesus returns to save Israel and Jerusalem from the invasion by the nations at the Battle of Armageddon. Daily sacrifice taken away ----(1,290 days until) ---- the abomination of desolation set up ----(44 days until) ---- (the 1,335th day). The 44 days between the abomination of desolation and the 1,335th day will the great tribulation period.

As I see it, the abomination of desolation occurs just before the great tribulation period begins (Matthew 24:15-21). The great tribulation period is the same as the time of trouble (Daniel 12:1). Michael will stand up just before the abomination of desolation (which is just before the time of trouble) which is when the man of sin will be revealed. 2 Thessalonians 2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition; 4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God. Before the man of sin is revealed, someone (who has been withholding) will be taken out of the way and then the man of sin will be revealed (at the abomination of desolation). 2 Thessalonians 2:6 And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time. 7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way. 8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming: Michael is the one who will be taken out of the way (he will stand up) and then the man of sin will be revealed at the abomination of desolation. Michael is the one who withholds with Jesus in the matters concerning kingdoms and kings. Daniel 10:20-21 Then said he, Knowest thou wherefore I come unto thee? and now will I return to fight with the prince of Persia: and when I am gone forth, lo, the prince of Grecia shall come. 21 But I will shew thee that which is noted in the scripture of truth: and there is none that holdeth with me in these things, but Michael your prince.

Daniel 12:11 And from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up, there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days. 12 Blessed is he that waiteth, and cometh to the thousand three hundred and five and thirty days. If you interpret Daniel 12:11-12 like this: Daily sacrifice taken away ------------------ 1,290 days until ------------------ abomination of desolation ------- 44 days until -------- the 1,335th day The 44 days between the abomination of desolation and the 1,335th day will be the "great tribulation" period. I believe the 1,335th day will be "the day of the Lord". I believe the Second Coming of Christ will be on the day of the Lord.

Thank you for your reply. God bless you also.

Hi Ezra, I do what I can to spread the Gospel, but the Lord has placed on my heart a great desire to understand the end time prophecies. I posted this topic because I do not see how the actions of the antichrist fulfill the role of an expected Jewish Messiah. I mentioned that the antichrist and the Messiah could possibly be two different men because of something I recently noticed while reading Daniel. Daniel 11:21. And in his estate shall stand up a vile person, to whom they shall not give the honour of the kingdom: but he shall come in peaceably, and obtain the kingdom by flatteries. 22. And with the arms of a flood shall they be overflown from before him, and shall be broken; yea, also the prince of the covenant. I believe the “vile person” spoken of here is the soon to come “little horn” aka the antichrist. I have always thought that the “prince of the covenant” referred to the same man, but the verse implies that the “prince of the covenant” will be broken by the “vile person”. This is why I asked if there could possibly be two men coming to sign the covenant with many; a false Jewish Messiah and the antichrist. Jeff

Hi Trevor, I believe the prophecies of the "little horn" of Daniel (who is also the mouth of the beast in Revelation 13:5-8), are telling us about a future evil world leader, the beast, aka the antichrist. Do you believe the "little horn" has already come? As for the Papacy, I believe that is Mystery, Babylon of Revelation 17 who rides along with the beast (a coming world government). Jeff

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I agree with you William, the great earthquake will cause volcanic eruptions and the skies to be darkened worldwide (the sun to be darkened and the moon to turn to blood).

Hi Trevor, I am aware of the historicism and preterism views on eschatology. I can see where events of the past seem to have fulfilled many of the prophecies. The problem is; Jesus hasn't returned yet. I see a future fulfillment of the prophecies that historicism and preterism say have been fulfilled, leading up to the Second Coming of Christ. If I am wrong and there is no third Temple built or no antichrist to come, I do not believe that Jesus will hold that against me. I do not believe that the Holy Spirit would allow me to oppose Jesus when He returns. Just as I believe Jesus will not hold anything against those who have the wrong opinion of when the rapture will occur. I Corinthians 13:8 Charity never faileth: but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail; whether there be tongues, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away. 9 For we know in part, and we prophesy in part. 10 But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away. 11 When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things. 12 For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known. Jeff

Hi Ezra, I have always believed as you do, but now, I cannot see the Jewish people accepting anyone else but a Jewish man as their Mashiach or Messiah, and I cannot see the Muslim world accepting a Jewish man as their Mahdi. The Muslim world is awaiting their Mahdi and their prophet Isa (he will be Jesus to the Muslims). I see the Mahdi as fulfilling the role of the antichrist and Isa as fulfilling the role of the false prophet. The Muslim world is also awaiting one who is called Dajjal. To the Muslims, Dajjal will be a false Messiah. Is it possible that a man, other than the antichrist, will come to fulfill the role of the Mashiach to the Jewish people and also be Dajjal to the Muslim world; their false messiah? Jeff

Hi Ezra, I have believed in this scenario most of my life, but recently I am having trouble understanding how the actions of the antichrist will fulfill the expectations that the Jewish people have of their Messiah. I am wondering if someone else, not the antichrist, will come as the Messiah and build the Temple and start the daily sacrifice. The antichrist will definitely stop the daily sacrifice and then set up the abomination of desolation, but is there scripture that says he will build the Temple and start the daily sacrifice? I believe the Messiah will have to be a Jewish man, but I am leaning now on the thought that the antichrist will be a Muslim man. Maybe both of these men, along with other leaders, will sign the covenant of Daniel 9:27. Jeff

Hi Trevor, Thanks for your reply. Jeff

HI Trevor, I agree with you that when Jesus returns, He will build a Temple in Jerusalem. My questions are referring to the temple that is spoken of in the following verses. 2 Thessalonians 2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition; 4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God. Who will build this temple that the man of sin (who I believe will be the antichrist) sits in? Isn't there a false Messiah coming before Jesus returns? If so, who will be this false Messiah? The antichrist? The false prophet? Someone else? Jeff

The Jewish people who deny that Jesus was the Messiah, are waiting for their Messiah to come. When he comes, will this Messiah build the temple and start the daily sacrifice? Who will fulfill that role; the antichrist (the beast) or the false prophet?

I believe the two witnesses will be Elijah and Enoch. Both have not died yet and I believe all of us must experience death.

I believe that Elijah will be one of the two witnesses who will come to the earth 1,260 days before the Second Coming of Christ. I believe the two witnesses will help the saints in the 42 month war that the antichrist will wage against them.

I do not believe the rapture will be pre-trib (not before Daniel's 70th week begins). I do not believe the rapture will be post-trib (not after Daniel's 70th week ends). I do believe the rapture will be post-great tribulation period (after the great tribulation period ends). I do not believe the end of the great tribulation period is the end of the 7 year tribulation period.

Spock, here is one more to contemplate. Revelation 17:9. And here is the mind which hath wisdom. The seven heads are seven mountains, on which the woman sitteth. 10. And there are seven kings: five are fallen, and one is, and the other is not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue a short space. This is how I see it. The seven heads are seven mountains, but they also represent seven kings: five are fallen (before John wrote Revelation); one is (at the time that John wrote Revelation); the other is not yet come (a future king, after John) and he will continue a short space (a small length of time). The answer to who the first king was is found in the Book of Daniel, Chapter 8. Daniel 8:20. The ram which thou sawest having two horns are the kings of Media and Persia. 21. And the rough goat is the king of Grecia: and the great horn that is between his eyes is the first king. Alexander the Great was the first king. 22. Now that being broken, whereas four stood up for it, four kingdoms shall stand up out of the nation, but not in his power. The four notable ones (Alexander’s four generals) were kings two through five. The sixth king, the one who is, must have been one of the Caesar’s of Rome in John’s time. The following verses go forward in time to the time of the end. 23. And in the latter time of their kingdom, when the transgressors are come to the full, a king of fierce countenance, and understanding dark sentences, shall stand up. 24. And his power shall be mighty, but not by his own power: and he shall destroy wonderfully, and shall prosper, and practise, and shall destroy the mighty and the holy people. 25. And through his policy also he shall cause craft to prosper in his hand; and he shall magnify himself in his heart, and by peace shall destroy many: he shall also stand up against the Prince of princes; but he shall be broken without hand. 26. And the vision of the evening and the morning which was told is true: wherefore shut thou up the vision; for it shall be for many days. This is the seventh king; the little horn, the antichrist. He will continue for a short space; 42 months (Revelation 13:5) during the “tribulation period”. Revelation 17:11. And the beast that was, and is not, even he is the eighth, and is of the seven, and goeth into perdition. The beast that was and is not (this is a spirit that will come out of the bottomless pit and take over the body of the antichrist after he receives his mortal head wound), he is the eighth king, he is of the seven (he has taken over the body of the seventh king; the deceased antichrist) and goes into perdition (he has entered into the man of sin). I can also see a dual prophecy here of the seven kings and also of seven kingdoms, but the seven kingdoms that I see are different from the seven kings and different from the seven kingdoms that others see.

Spock I believe Israel is dwelling safely because they have fled into the wilderness and are being protected by God at the time that Gog comes down. Revelation 12:6 And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore days. Revelation 12:14 And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent.

You said that Satan will be cast out of heaven after the seventh trumpet. Do you believe this because the sounding of the seventh trumpet is shown in Chapter 11, and Satan being cast out is shown in Chapter 12?

MorningGlory, Do you believe that the chapters of the Book of Revelation are in chronological order?

Hi Sister, I believe that Revelation, Chapter 20 verses 1-6 will happen on the final day of the "tribulation period". The "tribulation period" being the 70th week of Daniel; a period of 7 years. Satan will be loosed after the 1,000 year reign of Christ. Jeff

I see the events of Ezekiel, Chapters 38-39 happening at the time that the 7th vial is poured out; on the day of the Lord; the great day of His wrath. Ezekiel 38:18 And it shall come to pass at the same time when Gog shall come against the land of Israel, saith the Lord God, that my fury shall come up in my face. 19 For in my jealousy and in the fire of my wrath have I spoken, Surely in that day there shall be a great shaking in the land of Israel; 20 So that the fishes of the sea, and the fowls of the heaven, and the beasts of the field, and all creeping things that creep upon the earth, and all the men that are upon the face of the earth, shall shake at my presence, and the mountains shall be thrown down, and the steep places shall fall, and every wall shall fall to the ground. 21 And I will call for a sword against him throughout all my mountains, saith the Lord God: every man's sword shall be against his brother. 22 And I will plead against him with pestilence and with blood; and I will rain upon him, and upon his bands, and upon the many people that are with him, an overflowing rain, and great hailstones, fire, and brimstone. 23 Thus will I magnify myself, and sanctify myself; and I will be known in the eyes of many nations, and they shall know that I am the Lord. Ezekiel 39:2 And I will turn thee back, and leave but the sixth part of thee, and will cause thee to come up from the north parts, and will bring thee upon the mountains of Israel: Ezekiel 39:8 Behold, it is come, and it is done, saith the Lord God; this is the day whereof I have spoken. Here, God is going to leave a 6th part. In Revelation, Chapter 20, fire from heaven devours them. Revelation 16:17 And the seventh angel poured out his vial into the air; and there came a great voice out of the temple of heaven, from the throne, saying, It is done. 18 And there were voices, and thunders, and lightnings; and there was a great earthquake, such as was not since men were upon the earth, so mighty an earthquake, and so great. 19 And the great city was divided into three parts, and the cities of the nations fell: and great Babylon came in remembrance before God, to give unto her the cup of the wine of the fierceness of his wrath. 20 And every island fled away, and the mountains were not found. 21 And there fell upon men a great hail out of heaven, every stone about the weight of a talent: and men blasphemed God because of the plague of the hail; for the plague thereof was exceeding great. I believe you can see the comparison. I believe there are also verses in Isaiah that show this event. After this, there are periods of time mentioned. To me, these time periods do not fit in with the Revelation, Chapter 20 Gog and Magog event. Ezekiel 39:9 And they that dwell in the cities of Israel shall go forth, and shall set on fire and burn the weapons, both the shields and the bucklers, the bows and the arrows, and the handstaves, and the spears, and they shall burn them with fire seven years: 10 So that they shall take no wood out of the field, neither cut down any out of the forests; for they shall burn the weapons with fire: and they shall spoil those that spoiled them, and rob those that robbed them, saith the Lord God. 11 And it shall come to pass in that day, that I will give unto Gog a place there of graves in Israel, the valley of the passengers on the east of the sea: and it shall stop the noses of the passengers: and there shall they bury Gog and all his multitude: and they shall call it The valley of Hamongog. 12 And seven months shall the house of Israel be burying of them, that they may cleanse the land. 13 Yea, all the people of the land shall bury them; and it shall be to them a renown the day that I shall be glorified, saith the Lord God. 14 And they shall sever out men of continual employment, passing through the land to bury with the passengers those that remain upon the face of the earth, to cleanse it: after the end of seven months shall they search. Ezekiel 39:29 Neither will I hide my face any more from them: for I have poured out my spirit upon the house of Israel, saith the Lord God. If Ezekiel 38-39 refer to the Revelation, Chapter 20 event; is God going to hide His face from Israel during the 1,000 years?

Marilyn I have always held that view, even when I was a teenager just starting to read the Bible. I didn't read very many commentaries by anyone else, I just read the King James Bible and formed my own opinions.