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Diaste

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About Diaste

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    Male
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    WY, USA
  • Interests
    The Advent of the Beast.
    The Sign of the Coming of the Son of Man.
    The Gathering of the Elect.
    My Children.
    Motorcycles.
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  1. Diaste

    Have you noticed this? Matt 24:43:

    Jesus answered: “Watch out that no one deceives you. For many will come in my name, claiming, ‘I am the Messiah,’ and will deceive many. You will hear of wars and rumors of wars, but see to it that you are not alarmed. Such things must happen, but the end is still to come. Nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom. There will be famines and earthquakes in various places. All these are the beginning of birth pains. “Then you will be handed over to be persecuted and put to death, and you will be hated by all nations because of me. At that time many will turn away from the faith and will betray and hate each other, and many false prophets will appear and deceive many people. Because of the increase of wickedness, the love of most will grow cold, but the one who stands firm to the end will be saved. And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in the whole world as a testimony to all nations, and then the end will come. "What I say to you, I say to everyone: ‘Watch!" Clearly not for the Jewish people but for the followers of Jesus, of whatever blood.
  2. "26 People will faint from terror, apprehensive of what is coming on the world, for the heavenly bodies will be shaken. 27 At that time they will see the Son of Man coming in a cloud with power and great glory. 28 When these things begin to take place, stand up and lift up your heads, because your redemption is drawing near.”
  3. Diaste

    Defense of the Post-Trib / Pre-Wrath Position

    What about Abraham? And Lot? And Noah? None were Jews. And I think God wiped out a great many people in the flood that were not Jews, dealing with them "face to face".
  4. Diaste

    Defense of the Post-Trib / Pre-Wrath Position

    Agreed. I think. I believe you are making a comparison but I don't understand.
  5. Diaste

    1Thess 4:14 (Just checking)

    Well sure. Cherry pick a fragment of text, exile context, apply preconceptions, suspend common understanding and the passage can be interpreted any way one wishes. However, taken in it's entirety, with the provided context, we see the truth. "13 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope. 14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him. 15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive [and] remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep. 16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God:and the dead in Christ shall rise first: 17 Then we which are alive [and] remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. 18 Wherefore comfort one another with these words." Here the dead are NOT RAISED until the COMING of the Lord. This resurrection of the dead is associated with Jesus' descent, with a shout, the voice of the archangel and the trump of God. No one is saying there ISN'T a 'rapture', it's the timing, which is clearly depicted in the above and mirrors Matt 24:30-31. This timing for the gathering is preceded by four events: Jesus descent, a shout, the voice of the archangel, and the trump. So whenever this COMING of the Lord occurs is when the one and only gathering takes place. All evidence points to this occurring after the 'tribulation of those days'.
  6. Diaste

    Defense of the Post-Trib / Pre-Wrath Position

    It's an excellent attempt. Surely enough to convince. If some need to believe every dire consequence is God's wrath there might not be any way to change their mind; until these notions are put to rest by actual events. I get that it's appealing to have a pretrib rapture and escape; I can understand why some believe this even though it's wrong. How far can we get with those who conflate inaccurately, change definitions, ignore concepts, segregate, elevate without cause, and advance arguments rife with emotional appeals and reliance on group think and consensus? None so blind as those refuse to see. Don't stop. Lots of people listening that are open to the truth.
  7. I dont think the mark will be presented as beneficial, innocuous bit of legal ID. It's power is in allegiance.
  8. Diaste

    Have you noticed this? Matt 24:43:

    Just noticed this in the OP. Do you listen to Scott Clarke? The above is in direct contradiction to scripture. I suggest you take a better look at the things you say as, "For by thy words thou shalt be justified, and by thy words thou shalt be condemned." - Matt 12:37
  9. Diaste

    Have you noticed this? Matt 24:43:

    Why? How about we just read the text in normal everyday day language that all can understand? It can't be that complicated. Everyone has to be able to understand what is written, in any language, especially the Good News. Why can't it be that this parable just means be ready? Why can't it be that watching is also being ready? Only the prepared watch and only the diligent watcher prepares, for anything. Jesus is just saying that, like the homeowner who was ready and didn't allow the thief to break in, we should also be ready, and that readiness includes watching for signs; just like a diligent homeowner would watch for signs of suspicious activity, and then go check the locks, the alarms, let the dog out, change the guard. Watch so bad things don't happen to you.
  10. Diaste

    The Restrainer.....Who....When

    I don't believe we are opposed here. Your first sentence mucks it up a bit as I did not say "day of the Lord". 'That day...' in 2 Thess 2:3 is the day of the two events that are the direct antecedent to verse 3, namely the 'coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to Him', I didn't equate the Coming of Jesus to the Day of the Lord. One scripture proves this, 2 Thess 2:1, "Concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our being gathered to him," Two events linked together in time and space. So yes they happen in conjunction, not simultaneously, successively and close. True. Apostasy does come before the revealing. I have never stated this but it's quite logical. Apostasy and the revealing occur before the coming and the gathering, like this. 1) Rebellion 2) Revealing 3) Jesus coming 4) The gathering Yes, exactly what I have been saying all along. And the one restraining is not a 'who' but a 'what'. The holding back consists thusly: the Coming and the Gathering are being held back by the rebellion and the revealing. Two events cannot occur until two other events manifest. So we have the truth as spoken by Paul, "Concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our being gathered to him, Don’t let anyone deceive you in any way, for that day will not come until the rebellion occurs and the man of lawlessness is revealed, And now you know what is holding him back, so that he may be revealed at the proper time." Clearing the parenthetical parts reveals the truth. The rebellion and the revealing of the beast are what holds backs the coming of Jesus. No. You'll see. If you wish to repent you should do so here. Teaching people the rebellion against God is the pretrib rapture, shameful. How can one be so close to the truth and remain in denial? I left out nothing. 'That day' always refers to the Coming and the Gathering from verse 1. Never said they were the same. That's just your way of distraction. From the inconsistent jumble of facts and conclusions I hear from your lips, you must be in a great battle. Trust in the Lord, rely on the Spirit, the truth will be revealed. Nah. They are one and the same. Only one gathering is ever specified in scripture, here, "And he will send his angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather his elect from the four winds, from one end of the heavens to the other." The reference to the 'four winds' and 'one end of heaven to another' is metaphor for 'everywhere'. This takes place on the earth and not heaven because of this from Matt 24, "That is how it will be at the coming of the Son of Man. Two men will be in the field; one will be taken and the other left. Two women will be grinding with a hand mill; one will be taken and the other left." Obviously this is from the earth and not heaven. Again, nah. It would be weird right? Joel 3, "12“Let the nations be roused; let them advance into the Valley of Jehoshaphat, for there I will sit to judge all the nations on every side. 13 Swing the sickle, for the harvest is ripe. Come, trample the grapes, for the wine press is full and the vats overflow—so great is their wickedness!” 14 Multitudes, multitudes in the valley of decision! For the day of the Lord is near in the valley of decision. 15 The sun and moon will be darkened, and the stars no longer shine. 16 The Lord will roar from Zion and thunder from Jerusalem; the earth and the heavens will tremble. But the Lord will be a refuge for his people, a stronghold for the people of Israel." The multitudes will already be in the valley of Jehoshaphat before the signs occur. Then the sun and moon are darkened. Most telling is 'the stars no longer shine'. Then, according to you, the sun and moon would have to be lit up again, as well as the stars before the second time this happens here, in Matt 24: "the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from the sky, and the heavenly bodies will be shaken." In either case there is trouble. If the signs from Matt occur first then the stars would have to be picked up and put back in the heavens so the signs could occur again at some other time, as you see convenient. These two descriptions are so remarkably similar the events so described must be the same event: Joel, "The sun and moon will be darkened, and the stars no longer shine. the earth and the heavens will tremble." Matt, "the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from the sky, and the heavenly bodies will be shaken." Not twice. Once at the beginning of the day of the Lord. The only time. Not the context of my statement. I thought you said the gathering wasn't going to happen when it was dark? And a blood red moon that's visible? Well, since both Joel and Jesus say the moon will be DARK, then the moon to blood must be a saying, adage, metaphor. Joel 3 is a day of the Lord text and says, "The sun and moon will be darkened," not, blood red and visible. But the moon turning to blood in Acts 2 likely means the moon has been eclipsed and is not giving light. A blood moon today is a total lunar eclipse of a full moon and is called such due to a reddish tinge during the eclipse. So in effect Peter is saying the moon will be eclipsed, no light, or go dark. It's no doubt the people of that time, and generations before, had witnessed many "blood moons". Peter put the idea in familiar terms to all within earshot, the moon will go dark. I don't think the moon will be eclipsed during the day of the Lord; it's going out, like snuffing a candle.
  11. Diaste

    The Restrainer.....Who....When

    Yes, this person does do that.
  12. Diaste

    The timing of the 6th seal

    True. Except for your insistence that it's a strict chronology. And the fact the two witnesses minister in the first half. So not all mentions of 42 months are concurrent. Rev 7:9-17 is added detail about the time between the 5th seal finish and the beginning of wrath. The 7th trump is the last trump at which time we are either resurrected or translated. So any and all details concerning the trumps occur during the seals 1-5 right to the moment Jesus appears and Gathers us, moments prior to the commencement of wrath. Proof by omission is a fallacy. Not only, but you present the burden of proof fallacy as well. The person making the claim must back it up. "I said it, now prove me wrong." is not a valid argument and lacks evidence and shows zero effort in research. No. But feel free to expound. Um... Rev 6. "12And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal....the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?" Who reads this 'differently'? Obviously if wrath begins here then the elect have been gathered and GT is over. Only makes sense if you are trying to prove a point. You are saying 'X', therefore 'Z'. Possible. What of 'Y', the actual evidence 'Z' follows 'X'? Chapter and verse is only an organizational system introduced centuries later. It doesn't hold evidentiary weight. Well, if the 6th seal is wrath and the 7th trump is the gathering, and we are not appointed to wrath, and seals are opened in order and trumps sound in order then seals and trumps are concurrent right up to the sixth seal and the 7th trump. Obviously. If you are correct then there are three gatherings. No evidence for more than one gathering. So you are not correct. Really? Rev 8:1, "And when he had opened the seventh seal, there was silence in heaven about the space of half an hour." That's all that's written about the seventh seal. Need more than your word. It is in the right order; one you cannot yet discern.
  13. Diaste

    The Restrainer.....Who....When

    To leave out a crucial part of the text is deceptive. I'll fill in for ya. 2 Thess 2:1, "Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and [by] our gathering together unto him" Obviously Paul has linked the coming of the Lord with the gathering as occurring at the same time, or very near the same time, and listed so as to relate the gathering occurs following the coming of the Lord. I see why you didn't post that most important bit of context. Sorta ruins your doctrine. And so it is. Paul links the Coming and the Gathering occurring together. Verse 1 is the direct antecedent of verse 3, with verse 2 as a parenthetical in the order Paul is relating to the Thessalonians; 2 Thess 2:1-3 is completely accurate removing verse 2 to get a sense of the timeline; "Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and [by] our gathering together unto him, Let no man deceive you by any means: for [that day shall not come], except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed,the son of perdition;" That day...the day of the Coming and the Gathering. I am not making them 'equal'. Scripture does not create such an equivalency. You have to stay on topic. 2 Thess 2:1 equates TIMING of the two separate events, both of which come after the rebellion and the revealing. No one said the 2 events are 'equal'. So? How does that make it an impossibility? As scripture attests, the coming of Jesus precedes the gathering by moments. How long does it take to translate believers according to pretrib, and everyone else? 1 Cor 15, "we shall all be changed, In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye," Everyone changed in a nanosecond. When? "Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. 31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other." So right after GT all these events happen in near concurrence: The cosmic signs, the great shaking, the Sign of Jesus in heaven, The mourning of all the people of earth, AND the gathering of the elect. All together. After the sun, moon and star go out. But the Glory of Jesus casts light on all creation. There is no choice here. The righteous will be gathered and the rebellious will face wrath. That's it.
  14. Diaste

    The timing of the 6th seal

    I would like to think you're just being provocative, but I think you really believe what you just said. First if it was actually Jezebel she would have been over 850 years old at the time of Jesus. Since that can't be the case then the reference to Jezebel must be illustrative. It's emblematic of any false prophetess that exhibits a spirit of rebellion against God and turns other to the worship of false gods. Though if God so chose the Jezebel that died in 842 BC could still be alive, but that's not the case. I agree. There is a chronology. But it's not a chapter 1-22 chronology. This was pointed out to you in the example of the several times a 3.5 year period is mentioned. That's when you changed your tune to allow for concurrency. There are chronological elements that run concurrently. There are descriptions giving greater detail of events mentioned in preceding chapters or the previous chapter. These descriptions in later chapters of events in previous chapters are not chronological. John starts nothing. John only recorded. And you have no fact to establish the 70th week has not commenced before chapter 7. In fact Rev 6:9-11 says the GT has begun and Rev 6:12-17 tells us GT has ended and wrath has begun. Your notion refuted. This is wrong. There is no specific timing in Rev 15. No evidence from which such deductions can be claimed is found in Rev 15. The most one can say here is the righteous are in heaven before wrath begins as we are seeing a description of the moment after the 7th trump and just before the events of the 6th, just before the vials are poured out. Meaning seals and trumps are concurrent even as seals and trumps occur in order. I don't imagine it, it's true. Otherwise there would be multiple occurrences of these events. One in Rev 6 where the souls are given white robes, another in Rev 7 where the elect are pictured around the throne, and yet another in Rev 15. The picture of, "These are they which came out of great tribulation" from Rev 7 " them that had gotten the victory over the beast, and over his image, and over his mark, [and] over the number of his name," from Rev 15 must be the same event unless there are three gatherings, Pretrib, Rev 7 and Rev 15. There is no evidence of more than one gathering. It's actually you messing with the timing of events in a wholly farcical attempt to convince Rev is a chronology from Ch. 1-22.
  15. Diaste

    The Restrainer.....Who....When

    No. Paul is saying the two events, rebellion and revealing, must occur before Jesus can return and at which time the gathering occurs. It's the rebellion and the revealing holding back the return of Jesus, Paul tells us. The truth is the rebellion and the revealing must occur before Jesus returns, not some butchered scenario from the mouths of wolves expecting an early exit, unsupported by Holy writ.
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