Your closest friendnt

It takes time because it takes a lot of study into the context. We have to start with common ground things that are obvious from reading the scriptures.

@Charlie744 I am on an I phone and it takes time to reply but I do.

I have to respond to Michael and takes time but to your questions we should be able to tell why God never called Adam a sinner, and never called his children sinners because of Adam. But because of Adam's disobedience the knowledge of good and evil came to man but not till that time of the act of disobedience of Adam. What I just said the act of disobedience of Adam is not correct according to the scriptures Genesis 3:17 To Adam he said, “Because you listened to your wife and ate fruit from the tree about which I commanded you, ‘You must not eat from it,’ God did not say to Adam the strong words you have sin towards me and He did not say that you have disobeyed me because Adam said that Eve took and ate from the fruit (it was not me) and at that time she gave me to eat from the fruit. And God accepted what Adam said he said to Adam in verse 17 because you listened to your wife (earlier Adam reminded God "that the woman you gave me eat the fruit and then what she gave me to eat (and what was Adam supposed to do? Was he to seperate himself from Eve, the only Eve the first and the last. And stay in the Garden alone and Eve exit the Garden alone with the knowledge of good and evil and Adam in the Garden without the knowledge of good and evil still naked without the consciousness that he was. Adam at that time knew that there is only one Eve and he had to be with her. And that was the wish of God to multiple to have children the first couple and that have to happen in a world of the knowledge of good and evil. Adam gave to his children the knowledge of good and evil, they were born and would grow in the knowledge of good and evil in a world where they could sin. They were not born sinners because we do not have anything in the bible that say that Adam sinned when he was in the knowledge of good and evil and not before his children were born and not after. In the Garden they did not have the knowledge of good and evil and for that reason they could not sin and this is why God never accused them for sinning and never accused them for disobeying him he said to Adam because you listened to your wife and what was supposed Adam should have done? There was only one Helper for him from God the first and the last. Remained in the Garden and then what study the complexity if he did something like that. And God knew it from the beginning and He wanted them out of the Garden to start reproducing and multiply and fill the earth, when God said that he declared that Adam and Eve will not be the only humans and the humanity will never be extinct that they are protected to multiply. No one wanted their death not God and not the Serpent they were the only couple and both were looking forwards to their descendants. Adam and Eve and their children were in the presence of God because when God visited they are accepted in the presence of God because they were without sin in their own righteousness. For Cain it was different he started in the presence of God and when he sin that's what God told Cain that sin is outside the door of your heart that is knocking on the door of your heart that he was not born in sin and was not a sinner and God told him you should have resisted sin and restle with it and keep it out of your heart. God informed him that because of his sin he has to live the rest of his life away from him and away of his presence and Cain lamented that he had to live away from the presence of God seperated from God, dead to God because of his sin. Definitely not before his sin killing his brother Cain was held accountable because he had the knowledge of good and evil. He was born in the world of knowledge of good and evil. This is what Adam gave to the world the knowledge of good and evil and Jesus Christ was born in the knowledge of good and evil. Unlikely the first Adam who was created in a world and lived in the Garden without the knowledge of good and evil and God who had that knowledge he did not give it to him he had to take it from the Serpent to bring it in the world where Jesus would be born he prepared the way for the Messiah to be born in a world with the knowledge of good and evil. The battle of Jesus and the Serpent and this time the second Adam was with the knowledge of good and evil and without sin. Because Adam had the knowledge of good and evil it does not mean that he was a sinner Definitely not because that will apply to Jesus also. I know that a long post and we said nothing about what happened at the time of their death.

You are right remember what was the words of God that if you eat from the fruit of the tree you will surely die. Those last words need to be clarity by the events that followed.

At this time there is the need to make sure what we mean to say with the words we used. I can say that you need to read my post again because you have misconstrued what I post. Surely I know that all the people have experience physical death (but Enoch that we know at that time in the burning bush) and they continue to experience physical death till today and Moses knew that and God knew that when he spoke to Moses at the burning bush and their after and everyone knew that even Jesus Christ in Mathew 22:32. But you are responding like we do not know that. That Moses did not know that. If it was about physical death Paul is talking about he will never say that the physical death stopped with Moses because he knows that it did not. And we need to make the distinction between the Abraham and his chosen children and the Gentiles and his other children. Please can reconsider what your comment was about my posting. I have proven that Paul was not speaking about physical death and neither was I or the Lord God at the burning bush and not Jesus in Mathew and Moses did not understand that God at the burning bush was talking about physical death. Paul statement in Romans 5:14 is not in agreement the scriptures at hand in the totality of Scripture and definetly is not in line to what the Jewish Rabis were teaching or the prophetic about life after death. Jesus said about Abraham and his chosen children that they were the children of God and were alive to him after their death as in Abraham and his Bossom and at death they were separated from the rest of the world who were dead to God and under the God of the dead.

@Charlie744 Paul saying that death reigned upon all people till Moses is definitely an incorrect statement.

@Charlie744 The statement God made to Moses at the burning bush it gives a different message. And later Jesus commended about what God said to Moses at the burning bush. This is what Jesus said in Mathew 22:32 about the context of Exodus 3:6. Moses who heard God talking to him and recorded what God said at the burning bush will definitely disagree with the statement of Paul in verse 14. Mathew 22:32 New International Version I am the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob’? He is not the God of the dead but of the living.” New Living Translation ‘I am the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob.’ So he is the God of the living, not the dead.” Exodus 3:6 New International Version Then he said, “I am the God of your father, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac and the God of Jacob.” At this, Moses hid his face, because he was afraid to look at God. New Living Translation I am the God of your father—the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob.” When Moses heard this, he covered his face because he was afraid to look at God.

I find it difficult to agree with his verse 14. Wanting to understand what Paul wants to say in verse 14 and if we can justify it by reading the relevant scripture Paul took into consideration or if he missed out some Scriptures he should have considered first that lead us to a different understanding. What do you think?

Here is his post above.

Michael tried to help with our discussion by posting from Paul Romans 5:12-14.

I have not replied to Michael yet and I will. In the Brunch thread. You can join in.

@Charlie744 Now I am posting from the new thread so please we can go on in our discussion.

@Charlie744 Michael started a new thread in General discussion in my name and he posted a quote from Paul to give us some space, all is Good.

@Charlie744 did you find the thread? I can get to that thread by following the notifications sent to me.

@Charlie744 2 hours ago, Your closest friendnt said: I only said that Adam disobeyed God because this is what God said who never said the word "Sin" to neither Adam or Eve. Michael said: Hi @Your closest friendnt The discussion branched out from end times to the question od Adam's sin, hence the creation of this new thread. Paul has it as follows: Rom 5:12-14 Therefore, even as through one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin, and so death passed on all men inasmuch as all sinned: (13) for until the Law sin was in the world, but sin is not imputed when there is no law. (14) But death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over those who had not sinned in the likeness of the transgression of Adam, who is the type of Him who was to come;