choir loft

Evangelical types typically respond to simple questions by vomiting bits of scripture like religious slogans and buzz words. They don't persuade those who aren't saved and they barely convince those who are. To understand what it means to be 'born again' one must understand what it means to be dying. Start with Genesis 1:26-27. In those two verses it is revealed that God originally blessed Eve and Adam with His image - the Image of God. Nobody seems to understand what this Image is or what it's function might be. Two chapters later, in Genesis 3, it's lost because of the SIN of Eve and Adam. The first family of the Bible died spiritually on the same day they SINNED. This death is attributed to their LOSS of the Image of God. Therefore the Image of God is connected to immortality. Every human being since that day is subject to the natural results of divine condemnation - DEATH. As a consequence of the SIN of Eve & Adam there is now no natural component of a human life that survives physical DEATH - none whatsoever. Humans die the same as any cockroach or sick dog. Surely the fate of human beings is like that of the animals; the same fate awaits them both: As one dies, so dies the other. All have the same breath; humans have no advantage over animals. Everything is meaningless. (Ecclesiastes 3:19) The Image of God is NOT naturally present in ANY human being. We do NOT all have the image of God within us. Indeed most do NOT. Proof positive of this is DEATH both physical and spiritual. The natural man does not know God nor is he even aware of the first second or minute following his death. The natural awareness of the natural life ENDS at death. All the children born to Eve and Adam and their progeny were given the image of their human parents, not that of God because it was lost. Therefore the Bible refers to those who die as those who are LOST. They exist no more in time or eternity. They pass away from the awareness of BOTH God and man. Neither do the dead suffer eternal torment. They simply DIE. Here is a mystery: The Image of God does not appear again in scripture until the New Testament. The Son is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation. (Colossians 1:15) Think Jesus = image of God and you've got it. It is this indwelling spirit of Christ within those who have humbled themselves unto Him and REPENTED of their SIN who are graciously endowed with immortal life. They and they alone. The event and experience is described by Jesus and His apostles as the Second Birth - as being born again of the Spirit of God. Indeed Christ and the apostles insist upon it most vehemently. We MUST be born again else we DIE. Thus the Second Birth is perhaps the greater miracle since creation itself. that's me, hollering from the choir loft...

For every Chuck Smith there are a dozen who work hard to squelch it. I was there on the inside track during the Jesus movement of the early 70's. I saw faces light up when Jesus was mentioned. I saw happiness and purpose and joy and hope among those who suddenly became aware of His blessings being poured out. I saw people become intensely interested in studying the Bible and in participating in worship that hadn't been inside a house of prayer for years.....didn't even own a Bible before then. .....and I saw church leaders who HATED the whole thing, who took every opportunity to suppress it and deny it, to condemn it and to mock it. They had their reward. Many of them are dead now - deservedly so. We need Jesus in this land. I hope the movement grows and that some way somehow our leaders shut their mouths about it. We don't need them. We just need Jesus. that's me, hollering from the choir loft...

Your statement is more accurate than most acknowledge. A lot of folks, especially Fundamentalist types, are in love with emotional experiences. Chief among these is the careless idea they can exorcise spiritual entities - whether they have experience & training or not. Typically they don't. Exorcism isn't something one wanders into without training from an experienced person. This does NOT include itinerant deliverance preachers who have no formal education beyond high school. I've met too many of these bogus snake oil salesmen myself. That being said those who truly follow Christ tend to avoid demonic infestations when and where they're encountered. When I visited the city of Salvador, Brazil I discovered a town that was so oppressed by the enemy that I couldn't imagine Christians living there. I prayed that God would nuke the place. I really did. Not much later I met a Christian man who lived there and who told me a few stories that calmed my nerves. Apparently there were more than ten righteous persons in that city. Nevertheless I was VERY happy to leave that awful place. Exorcism is not a game. that's me, hollering from the choir loft...

Did you not read my post? I am a Messianic Jew. Messianics are Jews and non-Jews who believe that Jesus (Y'shuah in Hebrew) IS God who died on the cross to save us from our SINs and who rose again to prove He is who He said He was. There's nothing in Torah about not using one's cell phone on Shabbat. We are asked to silence our phones during services, however. Does your place of worship do the same or do you all chatter on the phone while others are trying to pray to God? God may speak to us, but not on our cell phones. Shalom Aleichem that's me, hollering from the choir loft...

Everybody is caught up in the rapture fallacy - doctrinally if not literally. I've heard at least 16 different versions of it. If it's truly of God and in the Bible there ought to be one version that everyone accepts as valid. One example of validity is the resurrection of Jesus Christ. There's no argument about that point at all. In point of fact, it was INVENTED by a Jesuit priest in the latter part of the 16th century so as to confuse the followers of the protestant reformation. At bottom line its a doctrine of cowards - those who don't want to exercise their faith and who prefer an easy escape mechanism if its a fantasy. The context of scripture is how we determine truth. Context firmly establishes that God wants His people to walk THROUGH the troubles of earth by relying upon faith in Him to see them THROUGH it. Rapture fanatics absolutely refuse to allow the fact of over a dozen variations of their favorite heresy into their minds. They prefer the Star Trek beam-out version regardless of its ridiculousness. Keep waiting. The rest of us will be in heaven with the Lord and you'll still be sitting on your mountain top (or under your bedroom mattress) hiding from hard times. that's me, hollering from the choir loft...

We are commanded to cast out demons? Holiness types typically think they're 'annointed' for everything from 'name-it-and-claim-it' to their version of priesthood. Please quote chapter and verse for your assertion that 'we are commanded.....'. Most of the deliverance ministry types I've met divide into two categories; 1 is a traveling snail oil salesman who sell$ his spiritual remedy to gullible types. The other type is categorized by your personal testimony. They are those who seem to fall into a situation where they have to learn on their own. These last are the ones that seem to be doing a work worthy of attention. that's me, hollering from the choir loft...

WOW!!!! You've got a lot of science fiction going on for an item that isn't even mentioned in scripture. I live in the Southeast USA. A lot of airlines used Atlanta, Georgia as a hub. Many flights connect through there. Some jokes have circulated here for years that the rapture would go through Atlanta. BUT YOUR statement is the epitome of falsification. Nowhere does the Bible refer to transport systems, going through the heavens or through the skies. Neither does scripture suggest a destination in Israel. I've stated earlier that the rapture dogma is for cowards, but you've demonstrated something else entirely. What have you been smoking? that's me, hollering from the choir loft...

My rabbi told our congregation about it this morning during Shabbat services. He thought it was wonderful. that's me, hollering from the choir loft... ps We are a Messianic Jewish congregation. The more the Name of Jesus is sung and praised and happily worshipped the more people keep coming.

16 raptures? I thought 3 or 4 was a stretch. Not a surprise, though. It's a doctrine of cowards and those who are more interested than a flight of fantasy than a walk of faith usually buy into it. that's me, hollering from the choir loft...

check it out that's me, hollering from the choir loft...

check it out that's me, hollering from the choir loft...

While I cannot disqualify your experience and your accounts, I CAN add a few words of caution. It has been my personal experience that exorcising demons is only a half-measure. It has been my personal experience that exorcising demons can be extremely dangerous. It has been my personal experience that exorcising demons can be very profitable on the part of those who seek personal aggrandizement. Exorcising demons is only a half-measure if such action does not include REPENTANCE for SIN. (Matthew 12:45) In the quoted passage a 'clean house' refers to a person who has had demons removed from influence over them. The required measure to insure they won't return with authority is REPENTANCE from SIN followed by a humble and sincere appeal to God for Christ, not the devil's drones, to inhabit the sufferer. Without it the sad tale of repossession is repeated. With it the battle for the soul and physical well being of the affected person begins in earnest (see: Romans 6, 7 & 8). I do not hereby intend to belittle the words quoted by the above post, but it must be said that most people are enamored of the Hollywood version of demonic possession and exorcism rather than Biblical concepts and doctrine. In most cases, actual spiritual reality is the reverse of popular entertainment. For instance, it's the human that's weakened by demonic influence NOT the demon itself. This is the reverse of the sequence of events depicted in movies such as GHOST (1990 - released by Paramount Pictures, directed by Jerry Zucker and starring Patrick Swazye, Demi Moore and Whoopi Goldberg). AUTHORITY is given by a superior power to a lesser power. It must be clearly and completely understood that demonic exorcism can be DANGEROUS. It's like handling a gun. If you don't know what you're doing LEAVE IT ALONE. Exorcism should NOT be attempted by the uninitiated and the Biblically illiterate. God gives authority to do such things and He gives it to those He intends. Man DOES NOT have autonomous authority either of himself or of spiritual entities. This fact of spiritual life isn't generally preached because those that do so only concern themselves with donation$ that will ensue from their sermons however obtuse they may be. Be wise. Be cautious. Be guided by Christ who alone has ultimate authority over those who've entrusted their lives to Him and over demons who don't. that's me, hollering from the choir loft...

You seem to exhibit the misdirected attitude that the doctrines of man are divine. They aren't. The doctrines of rapture & millenium are all concepts of the western church. Indeed they are further restricted to American evangelicals and no other. These doctrines are NOT canonized scripture. Please keep this in mind as we proceed to examine them. As non-canonical interpretations they are subject to review approval and/or rejection if not outright mockery. For the most part only a very small segment of Christendom accepts the rapture dogma as binding upon their faith. The rest see it as either an academic exercise, as divisive ideas or for the pure nonsense it really is. The word rapture appears nowhere in Holy Writ. The return of messiah is first mentioned in Daniel and then in the NT. That HE shall descend upon the earth with power and authority isn't the issue here. Many Jews look forward to the coming of Messiah as well as most Christians. So do I. The issue, which has become clouded by false interpretations, is WHEN. Rapture dogma has been linked by Christian tradition to a more intellectually acceptable doctrine called the millenium. A political reign of Christ upon the earth for one thousand years has been discussed by church theologians from the first centuries of its licensed existence. Events of the early twentieth century proved most of their interpretations to be falsification. There are three basic theories of the millenium and the return of Christ: pre mid and post returns of Christ. First is that Jesus will return to earth PRIOR to His reign of one thousand years. Simply stated the interpretation assumes the whole world will have been persuaded of the gospel of Christ before His advent. This theory neglects Jesus' own words that global persuasion wouldn't happen. (Matt 7:13) The pre-millenial theory also denies the fact of history. By WWI it was generally admitted by most Christian theologians that the entire world would NOT be persuaded to join the church. The pre-millenial 2nd advent of Christ has been generally abandoned by legitimate theologians. Second is that Jesus will return to earth DURING a seven year period of terrible conflict and Jewish persecution called the Tribulation or the Time of Jacob's Trouble (Jeremiah 30:7). This seven year period was defined and predicted by the prophet Daniel. The flaw in the sequence of expectations is that the Time of Jacob's Trouble HAS ALREADY HAPPENED. Jeremiah said it would primarily affect Jews. Daniel said it would last 7 years. Jesus said it would happen ONLY ONCE. (Mark 13:19) The period known as THE HOLOCAUST fulfills these prophecies to the letter. It lasted 7 years from 1938 to 1945. It affected Jews as no other persecution has ever done. If Jesus is considered to be an authority we may rest assured it will NOT HAPPEN AGAIN. Therefore predictions that a mid Tribulation advent of Jesus Christ with or without a 'rapture' are mistaken. This leaves us with the third interpretation of the advent of Christ - at the end of one thousand years of devastation upon the earth. Such interpretations become far too complex to discuss here. It's sufficient to state that such interpretations are so convoluted and confused that even those who give them credence do not do so whole heartedly. Does this mean the Lord will not return to us? Indeed no. He WILL return as HE promised. Our problem is that human understanding is limited in scope as well as severely affected by the agendas of those who profit (not prophet) from personal aggrandizement when they make heated assertions of their own. At its most basic point the rapture is a doctrine of cowards. Although its linked to the millennium in the minds of many these links are tenuous at best. The Bible nowhere states that God will REMOVE His people from trouble. Indeed it promises over and over again that He will walk with them through it - by faith. Therefore the rapture is also a demonic doctrine that subverts faith itself. More can be written about this aspect, but for now its sufficient to say that its bogus. that's me, hollering from the choir loft...

You didn't read my post. Please read it again. All are condemned to death because we have inherited it (death). We inherited death because we lost the image of God. (Genesis 3) We SIN because we love it. (John 3:19) Some of us hate the situation we find ourselves in. READ ROMANS 6, 7 & 8. But God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son THAT THOSE WHO BELIEVE IN HIM SHOULD NOT DIE BUT HAVE IMMORTAL LIFE (John 3:16) The opposite is also true. Those who DO NOT BELIEVE in Christ will DIE. "Those who do not live by the LAW will DIE by the LAW". (Romans 2:12) Those who accept Christ receive the image of God, which is Christ Jesus. Thus immortality is restored (provisionally). (Romans 6, 7 & 8) Jesus said most people will suffer death and only a few will be saved. (Matthew 7:13) If you consider the conversation to be tiresome consider also that there is no such thing as everlasting torment. Hell is a myth. There is only DEATH. Surely the fate of human beings is like that of the animals; the same fate awaits them both: As one dies, so dies the other. All have the same breath; humans have no advantage over animals. Everything is meaningless. (Ecclesiastes 3:19) The Bible nowhere suggests implies or states that immortality will be given to unrepentant SINNERS. Death is their destiny. This is why Jesus said, "you must be born again - born of the spirit of God" (John 3:7) Put that in your pipe and smoke it a while. that's me, hollering from the choir loft...

READ GENESIS 3. This is the story of the fall of man in the Garden of Eden. READ IT. In chapter 1:26 of Genesis, God created man IN HIS IMAGE. It is the image of God that held the promise and power of immorality for Eve and Adam. In chapter 3, despite warnings of the consequences of SIN, Eve and Adam did it anyway. The consequence of that first SIN was death......spiritual death and physical death. Eve and Adam LOST the image of God. In Genesis chapter 4 we read that Eve and Adam gave birth to their first son - Cain. Cain was born in the IMAGE OF HIS PARENTS, Eve and Adam. As his parents had lost the IMAGE OF GOD so it was that Cain didn't have it either. So it is with every generation of mankind since that time. Every baby is born in the image of its parents. Do you not hear people saying a newborn child looks like its mother or its father? The child is born in the image of its parents, not God. Because Eve and Adam SINNED and lost the image of God they'd been given there was nothing to pass forward to their children - nothing for the generations of their children to pass along either. This is the nature and the horror of SIN. Death is now our destiny - death both spiritual and physical. Following the loss of the image of God by Eve and Adam we do not read of it again until the New Testament. The Son is the image of the invisible God (Colossians 1:15a) You asked, "Why did He (God) keep creating billions of sinful souls under bondage of SIN?" The answer stares us in the face, yet we all deny it. WE created those babies. Have you not heard how it's done? WE are the ones who give authority to SIN in our lives. Read Genesis 3 again. We give authority in our lives to SIN every time we break God's LAW even as Eve and Adam gave their authority to satan. So it is with every generation of mankind. God may own the earth and all it contains, but satan has authority over all humanity BECAUSE WE GIVE IT AWAY. Yet there are some of us who hate the bondage to SIN we have created for ourselves. There are some of us who wish to be free of it.....yet we cannot make ourselves free because SIN is a thing that lasts one's whole life. The only way it can end is by the death of its host organism - by our own death. SIN is with us and part of us. The ONLY way to be free of it is to DIE. We must die to be free, but dying also removes us from life. This is the most miserable part of the whole situation. In order to be free of the bondage of SIN we have to die - to lose the life we've been born to live. You asked "Isn't God omnipotent?" Indeed He is. Being thus omnipotent, God has devised a method by which those who are fed up with the influence of SIN in their lives can be free of it. The solution is to obtain the IMAGE OF GOD we lost in Eden. The Bible says Jesus IS the IMAGE OF GOD. Christ, who is the image of God (2 Corinthians 4:4b) Thus, the way to be truly forgiven is to deny SIN - to REPENT of it - and to accept Christ when He comes to us. As Christ can live in us (providing we REPENT of SIN and accept Him) so the IMAGE OF GOD can be restored to us and endow us with immortality. The gift, however, isn't like the one Eve and Adam had. The gift of immortal life in Christ is provisional - limited. Read Romans chapters 6, 7 & 8 to find out how these provisional conditions apply. You wrote that you were 'just asking'. I respond by 'just writing'. that's me, hollering from the choir loft...

Evangelical church types are addicted to the devil. They "name it and claim it" in their passionate prayers and dances to remove satan from their lives (even as tribes of ignorant godless pagans do the same thing). One wonders at their lack of vision. During the American civil war the day arrived when President Lincoln appointed General Ulysses S. Grant over all Federal troops. During one of his first meetings, General Grant's lieutenant generals protested about their defeats at the hands of Confederate General Robert E. Lee. They complained that 'Bobby Lee' had defeated them every time on the battlefield. In frustration and anger General Grant said, "I don't want to hear any more about what Bobby Lee is doing to us. I want to hear what we are going to do to HIM." In the same way, I grow increasingly angry with church types who place more emphasis on their love of satanic manifestations and lies than upon the person and authority and deeds and LAW of Jesus Christ. I don't want to hear any more about what satan is doing to us. I want to hear what Jesus is doing to conquer our lives for righteousness and sanctification unto the Kingdom of God. Who is Jesus anyway? Is He not Lord and God? If so, then we must be about His business. If so, then we ought to live as though its' true. Part of that is denial of SIN. Jesus will handle satan. Jesus will take out the trash. We needn't soil our hands at all. It is our duty to bend the knee and bow to Christ our King and Lord and Savior. It's a clean thing and we should be mindful of its value.....ghosts and demons notwithstanding. that's me, hollering from the choir loft...

Since nobody today acknowledges God's LAW as outlined in the Bible, the question above is moot. Many Jews don't acknowledge God's LAW as binding at all. Indeed they embrace tradition and don't even feel the need to believe in the existence of the One who led them out of Egyptian bondage and made them a nation. Many Jews reject Torah(the LAW). Many non-Jews don't acknowledge God's LAW as outlined in the Bible. Church types embrace hyper-grace, which is nothing more than cheap demonic religious licentiousness. Church types have invented and embraced their own tradition and stumbled into it even as Jews before them have done. Church types reject the LAW also. It's become popular among greedy preachers to deny the LAW and its rule upon our lives and hearts SO AS to obtain greater donation$. Many have one hand on the Bible and the other hand in someone else's pocket (sometimes their pants too). (*) because lawlessness will be increased, the love of many will grow cold. (Matthew 24:12) Nobody wants to hear of their need to REPENT, yet that is the very purpose of the LAW - to convince of SIN and the need for Teshuvah (Hebrew for repentance). Because we've abandoned the LAW, God's gold standard, social and sexual roles are neither easily nor clearly defined. These roles have been changed by economic factors, endless war, media hype, popular literature, increasingly violent and sexual entertainment (even for children), rabid political agenda and even sermons from the pulpit eroded by aforementioned gain. What rules ought we define and obey? Nobody really knows. Not even the author of the first post in this thread can reference them. Everybody has an opinion. Nobody gives a damn about God's definition - God's Word and certainly not God's LAW. Nobody is aware of it and nobody cares to DO IT even if they did. Most importantly, you must understand that in the last days scoffers will come, scoffing and following their own evil desires.“Where is the promise of His coming?” they will ask. “Ever since our fathers fell asleep, everything continues as it has from the beginning of creation.” But they deliberately overlook ... the present heavens and earth are reserved for fire, being kept for the day of judgment and destruction of ungodly men. (1 Peter 3:3-7) The Day of Reckoning is fast approaching. All manner of wickedness that opposes God's LAW will be swept away, including OPINION as to how one ought to express the relationship between men and women. It is time for the ancient teshuvah to be applied - time to REPENT of our SINs and wickedness which we from time to time most grievously have committed. The Day of Reckoning is near. We must REPENT while time still allows....and not the church only but all those we love and work with and enjoy life with. God is not willing that any should perish, but many of us simply DON'T CARE to receive of His forgiveness. REPENT that's me, hollering from the choir loft... (*) It is a hypocritical example of churches today that they deny being bound by the LAW (Torah) even as they demand a tithe of one's income (10%) BY THE LAW. The NT nowhere demands a percentage of income as donation, but the church does. Which is it, LAW or no LAW? If no LAW, then one doesn't owe a single cent to the church.

Most of the ideas about the afterlife originated in Egypt and Babylon. They were embellished by the Greeks and Romans and adopted by the Roman Catholic church, which used them to financial advantage. Additionally, the RCC also incorporated much of its ideology from pagan mystics rather than Biblical statements of spirituality. For instance, the Bible teaches there is no such thing as a quality of human life that survives physical death. Hell is a myth because the one who dies is dead and doesn't even survive the funeral service. Surely the fate of human beings is like that of the animals; the same fate awaits them both: As one dies, so dies the other. All have the same breath; humans have no advantage over animals. Everything is meaningless. (Ecclesiastes 3:19) On the other hand, the Vatican teaches that one can bribe loved ones out of Purgatory into Paradise by purchasing and using prayer cards (which are currently available at bulk discount on eBay and Amazon). Demigods were promoted by Christian gnostics who flourished in the 2nd and 3rd centuries AD. Terms to describe them are; archons, the demiUrge, auto genes, protophanes, Kalyptos and more. Hollywood sometimes uses these terms and myths to fill out a story line. For instance, an episode of the original Star Trek series was titled, "Return of the Archons". In gnostic terms an archon is simply a divine ruler. In Christian terms the position would be filled by an entity called an angel or unclean spirit/demon. Genesis, especially chapter 3, isn't all about sex and violence and plagues upon mankind. The 1st and 3rd chapter provide a considerable amount of foundation material for succeeding chapters and books - including the New Covenant. Genesis & Exodus establish the spiritual principles of divine covenant. Divine covenant is a matter the current protestant church in America has abandoned in favor of financial aggrandizement, assimilation of popular debauched culture and the promotion of religious celebrities and motivational ethics. Christ is still dead in His tomb if the modern church's behavior is to be embraced. The purpose of the post-modern church is to promote manipulation and indoctrination of its congregations, NOT the advancement of spiritual responsibility or the adoption of methods of accurate Biblical study. The post-modern church is in denial that God's covenant is still in effect. The LAW has not been abolished (Matt 5:17), yet it's necessary for the church to deny it so as to promote a form of debauched non-existent grace that allows SIN to flourish (theoretically), which in turn attracts donation$. Nobody wants to hear they need to REPENT, which is also established in Genesis. Sermons about repentance make people uncomfortable. Uncomfortable people do not give money. It's all about the almighty dollar, not the Almighty God and His covenant/LAW. that's me, hollering from the choir loft...

If one is a student at a Bible college or seminary, your assumption of the importance of opinion might be true (unless the institution has a stated agenda). Opinion is also considered to have weight around the dinner table (such as opinions about the creamy consistency of mashed potatoes). Opinion is not valid in corporate America or even in the cloistered halls of secular academia without supporting evidence. In the post-modern church it is personal opinion that is held in higher regard than scripture. Personal opinion is the muck politicians hide behind at election time. The forbidden fruit in the Garden of Eden had a name - OPINION. (Genesis 3:5) In these Last Days it is opinion that is the coin of the realm. That coin is inflated beyond its worth and usefulness. Those who eat of it and who also deny God's Word will die from their toxic diet. God doesn't care about our opinions. God demands our faithful obedience. Your 'opinions' are worthy of consideration because you have mined the text of God so as to learn from it. Most do not do so. Most worship their own opinion - worthless and tinsel thin though it may be. (John 3:19) As a consequence the post-modern church has betrayed the gospel and wandered into the pathways of wickedness and debauchery. (1 Peter 4:17) that's me, hollering from the choir loft...

Well said. The question is WHY is it a bad idea to speculate upon prophetic dates? It's a bad idea because church types neglect to remember the calendar they like to reference is the Gregorian calendar, which wasn't adopted by Europeans until October 1592. Biblical date references depend upon the Hebrew calendar. Thus the current Biblical year is NOT 2023. The current Hebrew year is: Elul 5782 - Tishrei 5783. In other words, post-modern predictions by church types are usually wrong because they don't know what day or year it is. The primary principle of Biblical prophecy is that it's predictions center upon the State of Israel and it's King - Jesus. Details of Biblical prophecy, such as the restoration of Israel as a sovereign nation among the family of nations, are calculated according to the YEAR OF JUBILEE. (*) Jubilee was specified as a benchmark or point of origin for future events in the LAW of Moses. Unfortunately Moses died before the 1st Jubilee could be observed. Joshua never celebrated it either and over the years the beginning of the count of days and years was forgotten. When Jesus was asked WHEN Israel would be restored as a sovereign nation He reminded His audience of this fact of forgetfulness. (Matt 11:27) In other words, Jesus admonition was arithmetic not metaphysical. Nobody knew when the count of years was to start...... In the post-modern church, profit rather than prophet is more important than spiritual edification. Any interpretation that brings in money is the one that's accepted. For the most part these predictions are bogus and should be ignored (except by the IRS which takes notice of monetary success). Consequently, ALL predictions based upon the Gregorian calendar will fail. Church types who believe them end up looking like fools - as they deserve. that's me, hollering from the choir loft... (*) The prophecy was fulfilled in June 1967 (Gregorian) when the IDF liberated the Old City of Jerusalem. (Luke 21:24) Indeed, the fortunes of the gentile church began to whither from that date to the present. The church is in decline and the State of Israel is rising to prominence among all nations due to God's plan of redemption - which does NOT include church membership.

You declined to offer evidence of sexual activity between your familiar spirits and humanity. Arguments about words and meanings aside I stand by my original statement. The Bible does NOT EVER state sexual relations between humans and angels/demons is possible. The Hebrew word 'elohim' can be interpreted several ways. It can either represent the plural nature of God or it can be used to describe spirits. More strictly the word refers to a generic class of entities as 'gods' or 'deities', the reality of which is also denied in scripture - ADONAI ECHAD (God is one) there is no other (god). Since the word Elohim also implies the triune Godhead, its spiritual use in the plural is denied by those who have an agenda opposing any expression of Trinity (which has a Babylonian and/or Platonic origin depending upon one's agenda). The discussion seems to be focused on justifying sexual relations between ethereal entities which are not gods/God and humans. Bottom line here is that such relations are impossible. Nephilim (the suffix -im implies plurality) were simply BIG PEOPLE. In the 21st century they would be employed by the NFL or NBA. They are NOT space aliens, demon gods or human-animal hybrids. Lilith has also been used to describe the strange night calls of the Owl. that's me, hollering from the choir loft...

More than one Eve? Is your post a statement or a question? Sometimes opinions are expressed as a rhetorical question. For instance, "do you really believe the United States is a democratic nation?" The implied answer in this statement is a resounding 'no'. (*) Returning to the matter at hand, LILITH is a female mentioned by the prophet Isaiah. "Lilith, the night monster, will dwell there." - Isaiah 34:14 According to Jewish tradition Lilith was the first wife of Adam, not Eve. Lilith was evicted from Eden for infractions that aren't specifically clear. References to Lilith can be traced to Babylonian myth, which is probably where Jews got the idea. Babylonian influence is quite heavy in the Talmud, also called the Law of Works by Jesus and His apostles. The only Biblical reference to Lilith is the one by Isaiah quoted above. Lilith is also represented traditionally as a type of she-monster or Succubus. This is also a non-Biblical reference. Figurative references are used in all languages to assist in the transmission of ideas. For example, the story of George Washington chopping down a cherry tree is a figurative reference. It didn't actually happen according to the myth, but it does serve to illustrate the moral code of its principle character - G. Washington. The story of Eve & Adam in Genesis 3 is quite possibly one of the heaviest most detailed explanation of the spiritual condition of mankind ever written. In its simplest form it tells a short story. Unpacking its meaning has resulted in volumes of theological exposition. While the location of Eden has been suggested by recent technological innovations, there is no archaeological evidence of their lives either in the original geographic location or when they settled after their eviction from earthly paradise. Eve has been traditionally represented as being the one who brought SIN into the world. Because Eve brought SIN into the world she and her sisters have been sentenced to suffer pain when they bring new life into the world. (Genesis 3:16) Adam and his gender were sentenced to a life of hard labor because he allowed himself to be seduced by his lying wife (who was in league with the devil). (Genesis 3:17a) Thus has it always been between men and women. As a final thought Genesis 3:16b establishes Adam in authority over Eve by God. Women have resisted male authority ever since. To this day women prefer the whispers and conceits of satan to the authority and decisions of men. Hope this helps. that's me, hollering from the choir loft... (*) The elected government of the United States is a constitutional republic. (See also; the Pledge of Allegiance)

My references are to Biblical sources NOT seances or vagaries of a personal nature. While I do not doubt your testimony of spiritual encounters, I do oppose the use of non-Biblical revelations as a source for ideology clearly stated in God's Word. Again the phrase 'sons of God' refers to human men. 'Daughters of men' refer to human women. (Genesis 6:2) Please do a word study on this and you'll see its clearly a reference to humans both male and female. Additionally, there is NO reference anywhere in the Bible that either angels or demons are capable of sexual relations with humans. Such encounters have their origin in pagan mythology - Babylonian being one of the earliest. Hope this helps. that's me, hollering from the choir loft...

It's about context context context. Context is how we arrive at an accurate definition of terms used in the Bible as well as our own time. How a phrase or word is used can be properly understood within the context of its use. The phrase 'sons of God' and 'daughters of God or daughters of men' is used throughout the Bible. Even Jesus used the term. It generally refers to human beings of the male and female gender. It NEVER refers to angels or demons. You wrote that Cain's descendants were sons of God. This is a correct assumption based upon Biblical context. It means nothing specially spiritual or prophetic, however. Those whose opinion suggests some sort of sexual soiree between spiritual entities and humans are vainly mistaken. They'd be better off surfing over to the porn channel for their entertainment. It simply isn't Biblical. that's me, hollering from the choir loft...

Your observations are correct. In the mid-1800's, John Nelson Darby published his book on DISPENSATIONALISM. It took a few years for the book to gain popularity, placing its acceptance in the late 1800's. In effect it was nothing more than refurbished RCC FUTURISM of the late 16th century. It's all bogus nonsense except that American evangelicals bought it without a shred of evidence either Biblically, Astronomically or historically. They still do. Here's why......... The modern church calculates its dates based upon the Gregorian calendar. But the Gregorian calendar wasn't adopted until October 1582. Look it up. All Biblical prophecies are based upon the YEAR OF JUBILEE, which is an expression of the Hebrew calendar. The Hebrew calendar is a hybrid of ancient lunar calendars and modern solar calendars EXCEPT it was in use for thousands of years while Europeans sat in the dark not knowing what time it was - astronomically speaking. Therefore faux prophecies by church types who do NOT employ a Hebrew calendar in their calculations are doomed to failure. The Hebrew calendar is adjusted every year because of the discrepancy in the solar/lunar observations and calculations. This is why Easter/Pesach falls on a different month and day each year. Gregorian calculations don't take this into account. False prophets don't realize the major error they're committing and as a result they ALWAYS end up looking like fools. Secondly, End Times prophecies in the Bible are linked to the YEAR OF JUBILEE, which is mandated by Mosaic LAW. Unfortunately, Moses died before Jubilee could be observed. Joshua didn't observe it either and as the years went by the initial date to begin calculations for observing Jubilee was forgotten and lost. In Mark 13 Jesus is asked when Israel would be restored as a sovereign nation. He said nobody knew except the Father. This wasn't an ethereal or evasive answer. Jews of Jesus' time simply didn't know when to begin the arithmetic calculations for Jubilee. They still don't. Christians don't know either. If one of them says he knows specific dates for End Times events he's either a liar or a fraud. Take your pick. Finally it should be understood that the Abomination of Desolation Jesus and the prophet Daniel spoke of has been misconstrued by the gentile church. Completely in denial of Jewish secular history and enamored of an antisemitic eschatology, church types don't teach us about events that have taken place as recently as the mid-twentieth century (Tisha B'Av). Look it up. It's fascinating stuff. Tisha B' Av IS the abomination of desolation spoken of by Daniel & Jesus and it's already happened in history. Ask any Jew. In the end it's about arithmetic, not metaphysical events. That's where false prophets go wrong. They imagine things in their minds and then insist they've experienced a revelation when it's nothing more than mind games minus the Biblical standard of truth and a record of history set in cement. that's me, hollering from the choir loft...