((Michael))

If you are saying that scripture is open for interpretation, what is your interpretation on it? Are you "truthfully" saying Christ might have been endorsing tattoos? If we don't know for sure, then maybe shouldn't twist those scriptures for the sake of debate. Should we judge a person with tatoos as condemned? I wouldn't, I don't think it's my place to do so. But I see Revelations 22:3-5 and Isaiah 44:5 being quoted in such a way as to imply God is endorsing tatoos in both of those passages. Does the scripture say specifically that tattoos are a sin? I'm not sure. But The bible doesn't have to list every possible sin for it to be sin, James tells us that. James 4:17 " 17 Therefore, to one who knows the right thing to do and does not do it, to him it is sin. The "right thing" could be a number of things. Possibly, somebody out there is riding the fence on tattoos and may come across this forum and see those 2 passages being quoted to imply getting a tattoo is ok with the Almighty. Just something to think about.

lol, I realize now

It's not the technology or their military that has kept them alive, it's the one True Elohim יהוה. They are the size of New Jersey and in theory should have been wiped out several times. The war of 1947 and Yom Kippur war, the one true Elohim delivered them both times to victory. If I understand scripture right, in their last fight they will have no choice but to call on God for help. And then they will realize it's God who delivers them, and He alone is worthy of praise and glory.

I think you misquoted 1 John 1:8, I believe it says if we says "He who says he is without sin" is a liar.......That is a big difference from saying one is without sin and one saying he doesn't sin. I'm noticing more and more these days, when somebody makes the statement along the lines we should strive to sin not, people will jump all over that and go on attack. Yet, we are supposed to strive for that and help each other to strive for that mark as well. Christ Himself said to STRIVE to enter the narrow gate. Instead of pointing out the obvious that we are not perfect and are without sin, how about we all support the goal of trying to achieve a life of obedience to Christ. This should be a goal for each and everybody who confesses Christ as Lord.

I am not commenting on Kosher vs non Kosher, but I question whether the Gentile was not included in the Mosaic covenant. I read the following passages suggesting that God has always allowed Gentiles who wanted to join themselves to Him in the old covenant as well. Isaiah 56:3-6New American Standard Bible (NASB) 3 Let not the foreigner who has joined himself to the Lord say, “The Lord will surely separate me from His people.” Nor let the eunuch say, “Behold, I am a dry tree.” 6 “Also the foreigners who join themselves to the Lord, To minister to Him, and to love the name of the Lord, To be His servants, every one who keeps from profaning the sabbath And holds fast My covenant; Exodus 12:48-49New American Standard Bible (NASB) 48 But if a stranger sojourns with you, and celebrates the Passover to the Lord, let all his males be circumcised, and then let him come near to celebrate it; and he shall be like a native of the land. But no uncircumcised person may eat of it. 49 The same law shall apply to the native as to the stranger who sojourns among you.” Numbers 15:16 There is to be one law and one ordinance for you and for the alien who sojourns with you.’” Ezekiel 47:22-2322 You shall divide it by lot for an inheritance among yourselves and among the aliens who stay in your midst, who bring forth sons in your midst. And they shall be to you as the native-born among the sons of Israel; they shall be allotted an inheritance with you among the tribes of Israel. 23 And in the tribe with which the alien stays, there you shall givehim his inheritance,” declares the Lord God. Ezekiel 14:77 For anyone of the house of Israel or of the immigrants who stay in Israel who separates himself from Me, sets up his idols in his heart, puts right before his face the stumbling block of his iniquity, and then comes to the prophet to inquire of Me for himself, I the Lord will be brought to answer him in My own person.

I won't respond after this one on this topic in this thread after this response. I feel passionately on this topic because of things that have happened in my life in more than a couple of experiences. If you look throughout scripture, every encounter you see between man and the Almighty or Yeshua in His glorified state, men drop to their faces. I'm not trying to make God out into the boogy man. I just believe He is too awesome for us to truly comprehend in this lifetime. The passage you just quoted, is the same as the passage in John where it is said that " There is no fear in love, perfect love casts out fear......Those passages are talking about we have nothing to fear in life. Scripture does not contradict itself! There are too many passages that tell us it is wise to fear the one True God. I've listed probably at least 10 on this forum alone. If Jesus and Paul both tell us it is wise to fear God, why do we go out of our way to justify not fearing Him based on a couple of passages that are not talking about fearing God, but about not fearing life?

You still haven't addressed any of the passages I quoted. I already told you I agreed with the passage you quoted on there is no fear in love, though I believe it's not relevant to fear of God. And nobody said anything about fearing the enemy. What do you make of the passages quoted above. I'll leave you with another: Romans 11:20-22English Standard Version (ESV) 20 That is true. They were broken off because of their unbelief, but youstand fast through faith. So do not become proud, but fear. 21 For if God did not spare the natural branches, neither will he spare you. 22 Note then the kindness and the severity of God: severity toward those who have fallen, but God's kindness to you, provided you continue in his kindness. Otherwise you too will be cut off.

So I already said I agreed with reverencing God, question is, should there be a healthy understanding of what it means to fear God? Psalm 2:11 has both reverence and fear. The King James version uses word fear, the NASB uses reverence. Worship the LORD with reverence And rejoice with trembling. Serve the LORD with fear, and rejoice with trembling. Here are some more from David Psalm 119:120 (NASB) 120 My flesh trembles for fear of You, And I am afraid of Your judgments. Isaiah 66:2 (NASB) 2 “For My hand made all these things, Thus all these things came into being,” declares the Lord. “But to this one I will look, To him who is humble and contrite of spirit, and who trembles at My word. Jeremiah 5:22 (NASB) 22 ‘Do you not fear Me?’ declares the Lord. ‘Do you not tremble in My presence? For I have placed the sand as a boundary for the sea, An eternal decree, so it cannot cross over it. Though the waves toss, yet they cannot prevail; Though they roar, yet they cannot cross over it. Maybe it's both reverence and fear?

I said I conceded that there are passages that speak of reverence, but John 4:18 though quoted often isn't one I see as that. There is no fear in love, but that doesn't address the Fear of God. That is speaking of no fear in life, or ones walk in this life because they of the relationship they have with God. That doesn't address the passages above or the countless others. I don't see why people can't see that there is both in the scriptures. If Moses, David, Isaiah and all the high angels fear the one true God, why would I think I am going to be any different?

I think it's both. I see both reverence and actual fear in a lot of the passages. I concede that there are several passages that speak of reverence, but how do you interpret the following passages: Matthew 10:28 (NASB)28 Do not fear those who kill the body but are unable to kill the soul; but rather fear Him who is able to destroy both soul and body in hell. Philippians 2:1(NASB)12 So then, my beloved, just as you have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your salvation with fear and trembling; Isaiah 8:12-13New American Standard Bible (NASB) 12 “You are not to say, ‘It is a conspiracy!’ In regard to all that this people call a conspiracy, And you are not to fear what they fear or be in dread of it. 13 “It is the Lord of hosts whom you should regard as holy. And He shall be your fear, And He shall be your dread. Jeremiah 2:19New American Standard Bible (NASB) 19 “Your own wickedness will correct you, And your apostasies will reprove you; Know therefore and see that it is evil and bitter For you to forsake the Lord your God, And the dread of Me is not in you,” declares the Lord God of hosts. Deuteronomy 21:21 (NASB)21 Then all the men of his city shall stone him to death; so you shall remove the evil from your midst, and all Israel will hear of it and fear. Ephesians 6:5-6 (NASB)5 Slaves, be obedient to those who are your masters according to the flesh, with fear and trembling, in the sincerity of your heart, as to Christ; 6 not by way of eyeservice, as men-pleasers, but as slaves of Christ, doing the will of God from the heart. There are several more passages I could post. Why is fearing the Almighty something bad? I concede that we are to reverence, but there is also needed a healthy understanding of fear. In the passages posted previously on the account when the people of Israel's encounter with the Almighty at Mt. Sinai, they were obviously frightened something fierce and God Himself said they spoke well in admitting it, according to how my bible reads in Deuteronomy chapter 5. This world we live in is missing fear of God.

I also see Christ as the Angel ( Malak-Messenger ) in several passages. Scripture in John 1:18 says no man has ever seen the Father "No one has seen God at any time; the only begotten God who is in the bosom of the Father, He has explained Him. You also have in Exodus 33:20 "But He said,: You cannot see my face, for no man can see Me and live. Also in 1 John 4:12 " No one has seen God at any time......Yet you have several passages throughout scripture that start off showing an encounter with the Angel of YHVH, and by the end of the passage it appears that it is God Himself speaking. Here are several passages to consider............ Genesis 48:16 " The angel who has redeemed me from all evil,Bless the lads; Psalm 34:7 The angel of the Lord encamps around those who fear Him,And rescues them. Pay close attention to the words of the Angel of Adonai and How He speaks with authority in Judges 2:1-5: Now the angel of the Lord came up from Gilgal to Bochim. And he said, “I brought you up out of Egypt and led you into the land which I have sworn to your fathers; and I said, ‘I will never break My covenant with you, 2 and as for you, you shall make no covenant with the inhabitants of this land; you shall tear down their altars.’ But you have not obeyed Me; what is this you have done? 3 Therefore I also said, ‘I will not drive them out before you; but they will become as thorns in your sides and their gods will be a snare to you.’” 4 When the angel of the Lord spoke these words to all the sons of Israel, the people lifted up their voices and wept. 5 So they named that place Bochim; and there they sacrificed to the Lord. Jacob wrestled with this Angel of YHVH in Genesis chapter 32 and made the statement in verse 30 " SO Jacob named the place Peniel, for he said, " I have seen God face to face, yet my life has been preserved." In Judges chapter 13, Samson's parents were visted by the Angel of YHVH with instructions for their future son. After the visit in Judges 13:22" So Manoah said to his wife, " We will surely die, for we have seen God." Exodus 23:20 " 20 “Behold, I am going to send an angel before you to guard you along the way and to bring you into the place which I have prepared. 21 Be on your guard before him and obey his voice; do not be rebellious toward him, for he will not pardon your transgression, since My name is in him. Even in Exodus chapter 3 where Moses encounters the burning bush. The Angel of YHVH starts off speaking to Moses, but by verse 6 the text reads as if God Himself is speaking to Moses. Scripture says in Colossians 1:15 He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation. It looks to me as if when people encounted this Messenger of God, that they were encountering Christ who is the image of the Father. A few of them thought they were as good as dead because they saw God, yet scripture says no man has seen God the Father. Don't forget Hagar in Genesis chapter 16 has an encounter with the Angel of YHVH and ends up saying Genesis 16:13 Then she called the name of the LORD who spoke to her, "You are a God who sees"; for she said, "Have I even remained alive here after seeing Him?" Could you imagine the teaching that they 2 disciples got on the road to Emmaus from Yeshua Himself? Luke 24:44-45 44 Now He said to them, “These are My words which I spoke to you while I was still with you, that all things which are written about Me in the Law of Moses and the Prophets and the Psalms must be fulfilled.” 45 Then He opened their minds to understand the Scriptures, I can't make a 100% definitive statement that Christ is the Angel of YHVH, but it sure reads that way to me. And I can't help but get a little excited reading the passages that way, seeing that Christ was always doing the Father's will and interacting with people.

I don't know if Cahn is legit or not. I wouldn't discount that God can use anybody He wants, to give a warning. God used Balaam to bless Israel, just something to consider.

I hope he was saved as well. Satan used this guy, as he uses a lot of people who are in the spot light such as other musicians, actors, and athletes. His music endorsed sex, endorsed the things of this world. I would hope as believers, we view this music for what it is. I hope he was saved, but why give his music any glory when its obvious his music gave glory to the one of this world.

I think the fear of the Lord is not something we should discount. I think it is arrogant human pride that refuses to accept the phrase "Fear of the Lord" and reduces it to a reverence. But I think that is another thread................Just so I know where you are coming from Willa, does a believer in Christ try to live a holy life? Or does the believer in Christ who is supposed to have a new nature, just go with the flow in his faith.

I hope I don't sound like the bad guy here........I think the prayer should hopefully be that God blesses you with a business that allows you to honor His name. And what I mean by honor His name, that through your business Christ in you can be a testimony to others. Money and wealth are tools, but can lead to idolatry. I'm not saying that is going to happen to everyone who has a thriving business. I'm just pointing out that the temptation is always there to worship the work of ones hands. Pray that God keeps you strong, your paths straight in righteousness. If your heart is right, God could bless you and many others through this business if it's His will.

Doesn't that verse reiterate what you just said about the believers who felt that way out of fear. " Let us therefore fear"

It's an old thread, but looks edifying. Not the typical going back and forth debate leading to nothing but a good showing of pride and arrogance. Wow, 2002?

Thanks for the response Deborah. Do you believe the council of Jerusalem who wrote these churches to abstain from strangled meat, fornication, idolatry and blood was concerned about pleasing Christian Jews or the Almighty? I see throughout scripture God is more concerned about us following Him than worrying of what others think. The blood issue goes back to Noah in Genesis 9:4. This idea that we structure church to make it a comfortable environment, rather than following God's word is what I view as a problem in mainstream churches today. I went to a discipleship class last night, and the statement was made the 10 commandments no longer apply. I can understand why one would say the Sabbath is honored through rest in Christ, but to just boldly proclaim the 10 commandments don't exist, it didn't feel right to me. As Butero said above, for myself, this is a black and white issue. I would just have to see an argument presented in scripture to convince me this commandment is no longer valid.

Thank you for your response. I see 4 simple commands given for the new Gentile converts because there was a sect claiming they needed to be circumcised and follow the 1st covenant ( at least that's how I read it ). Fornication and Idolatry are among this very short list of 4 things to follow. I suppose one can argue that fornication isn't allowed because it only applies to those who were soliciting pagan temple prostitutes at that time. Or that since we are under grace, idolatry is now ok. When Paul said all things were lawful, I think that passage along with a few others get taken out of context. I feel strong about this, because of the issues I see in a lot of mainstream churches turning grace into a license to do whatever. I'm not suggesting that is you, I don't know you. But you quoted the vision Peter had before he met with Cornelius. For me its not an issue about pork, it's about blood. If I'm wrong on this, it wouldn't be the first time. But I don't think anything was presented to suggest those 4 commands do not apply today : abstain from things contaminated by idols, from things strangled, fornication, and from blood.

Just the other day in the chat, a visitor had asked the question if it is ok to consume blood in regards to food. This question caused quite a stir after I quoted some verses in Acts 15 and 21. This isn't a kosher vs unclean issue for me. I read in both accounts of the council held at Jerusalem that 4 things were decided to write the new Gentile converts to abstain from; abstain from things contaminated by idols, from things strangled, fornication, and from blood ( not in this order ). I think I quoted: Leviticus 17: 10 ‘And any man from the house of Israel, or from the aliens who sojourn among them, who eats any blood, I will set My face against that person who eats blood and will cut him off from among his people. After I quoted from Leviticus, I was asked ( paraphrasing here ), Why am I trying to put people under the law? I want to add, that I only quoted Leviticus after I quoted: Genesis 9:4"Only you shall not eat flesh with its life, that is, its blood. The commandment in Genesis was before the covenant on Sinai. Why is quoting from Leviticus frowned upon these days? This wasn't even somebody suggesting to another they couldn't eat pork. This was about consumption of blood. I think the word "Legalistic" has been tossed around so much that if anybody is striving to live like Christ, they are viewed as one who is trying to earn their way to heaven by works. Leviticus also addresses stealing, lying, murder, and same sex marriage ( just to name a few ). Since we are in a new covenant, does that mean none of these things apply? Now I very much might be wrong in how I'm reading the passages about blood. If somebody can show me in scripture, I would appreciate it.

Amen.

is it safe to say that possibly the book of Hebrews may have also been written in Hebrews?

There was a time when I really enjoyed compliments from people and didn't feel the least bit guilty about it. Now I realize how much the Almighty values the humble heart, so I feel guilty just like you. You feeling good because of a compliment is a human reaction. I wrote down a lot of passages dealing with humility and pride. The book of Proverbs has several passages. If you sing for the Lord, I don't see how anything can be wrong with that.

I have had a knack of saying what's on my mind, and still have problems with that from time to time. What has put things in perspective for me lately, is the realization that when I'm speaking I may as well be speaking to the Almighty Himself. With that knowledge, sometimes it's best not to say anything at all. The book of Proverbs addresses this along with James. You have been humble enough to confess this to an audience, may Elohim bless you with comfort. I hope things work out.

Hello Shabbytia, I heard the testimony of this minister in Israel who's name was Joseph Haddad. The day He found the Lord and accepted Him as his savior, he said He had an instant love for his wife that brought him to tears. I'm not implying this scripture applies to you , but it is interesting and puts in another perspective of just how important God views commitment of marriage since algots already posted what the Messiah said. 1 Corinthian 7:13-14 13 And a woman who has an unbelieving husband, and he consents to live with her, she must not send her husband away. 14 For the unbelieving husband is sanctified through his wife, and the unbelieving wife is sanctified through her believing husband; for otherwise your children are unclean, but now they are holy. Pray on it, and read the epistles for relationship advice. I think they are pretty straightforward, not a lot of gray area. I hope it all works out for you.