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seeking the lost

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  1. seeking the lost

    Bethel Church - A Different Gospel

    The Jesus that they preach is not another Jesus. They believe in the virgin birth, the sinless life, the vicarious death for the sin of man, the burial in the grave, the bodily resurrection, the ascension etc. What part of your Jesus makes their Jesus another Jesus. They are not advocating unrighteousness. They do advocate the first commandment and the second commandment as well. How does this differ from your stance? There may be things that they do that you do not understand but they do stand for truth and righteousness.
  2. seeking the lost

    Bethel Church - A Different Gospel

    Great job of judging. James 4: 10 Humble yourselves before the Lord, and he will lift you up. 11 Brothers and sisters, do not slander one another. Anyone who speaks against a brother or sister[a] or judges them speaks against the law and judges it. When you judge the law, you are not keeping it, but sitting in judgment on it. 12 There is only one Lawgiver and Judge, the one who is able to save and destroy. But you—who are you to judge your neighbor? Acts 5:37-39 37 After him, Judas the Galilean appeared in the days of the census and led a band of people in revolt. He too was killed, and all his followers were scattered. 38 Therefore, in the present case I advise you: Leave these men alone! Let them go! For if their purpose or activity is of human origin, it will fail. 39 But if it is from God, you will not be able to stop these men; you will only find yourselves fighting against God.” The Really smart people of Jesus day said that He was casting out devils by the devil. They were sure that He was demonic. Were they correct?
  3. seeking the lost

    Defense of the Pre Trib Rapture

    I agree that many have obsessions and that over emphases on anything can lead to error. In Christ the distinction between Jew and Gentile is taken away. Colossians 3:10 And have put on the new man, which is renewed in knowledge after the image of him that created him: 11 Where there is neither Greek nor Jew, circumcision nor uncircumcision, Barbarian, Scythian, bond nor free: but Christ is all, and in all. 12 Put on therefore, as the elect of God, holy and beloved, bowels of mercies, kindness, humbleness of mind, meekness, longsuffering; Galations 3:27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ. 28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus. 29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise. Abraham's seed? What would that make us?
  4. seeking the lost

    Defense of the Pre Trib Rapture

    Greetings Shiloh 357, Many things were accomplished at the cross. Among the things accomplished was the middle wall of partition was broken down. This is the wall between Jew and Gentile and now He has created one new man. Ephesians 2: 14 For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us; 15 Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace; 16 And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby:
  5. seeking the lost

    Did I just recieve the gift of tongues?

    The day of Pentecost was the day that the gift was manifest and on that day there were many that mocked. The account of that day is given in the book of Acts chapter two. The Holy Spirit Comes at Pentecost 2 When the day of Pentecost came, they were all together in one place.2 Suddenly a sound like the blowing of a violent wind came from heaven and filled the whole house where they were sitting. 3 They saw what seemed to be tongues of fire that separated and came to rest on each of them. 4 All of them were filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak in other tongues[a] as the Spirit enabled them. 5 Now there were staying in Jerusalem God-fearing Jews from every nation under heaven. 6 When they heard this sound, a crowd came together in bewilderment, because each one heard their own language being spoken. 7 Utterly amazed, they asked: “Aren’t all these who are speaking Galileans? 8 Then how is it that each of us hears them in our native language? 9 Parthians, Medes and Elamites; residents of Mesopotamia, Judea and Cappadocia, Pontus and Asia, 10 Phrygia and Pamphylia, Egypt and the parts of Libya near Cyrene; visitors from Rome11 (both Jews and converts to Judaism); Cretans and Arabs—we hear them declaring the wonders of God in our own tongues!” 12 Amazed and perplexed, they asked one another, “What does this mean?” 13 Some, however, made fun of them and said, “They have had too much wine.” Peter Addresses the Crowd 14 Then Peter stood up with the Eleven, raised his voice and addressed the crowd: “Fellow Jews and all of you who live in Jerusalem, let me explain this to you; listen carefully to what I say. 15 These people are not drunk, as you suppose. It’s only nine in the morning! 16 No, this is what was spoken by the prophet Joel: Notice that Peter addresses the group that thought these were drunk with wine. These people were sure that what they heard was gibber-gabber such as when someone has to much wine.
  6. seeking the lost

    Did I just recieve the gift of tongues?

    The gifts do come from God and God does not give junk. All the gifts of God are good and perfect. James 1: 16 Don’t be deceived, my dear brothers and sisters. 17 Every good and perfect gift is from above, coming down from the Father of the heavenly lights, who does not change like shifting shadows. Even if it is the least of the gifts it is still a good gift and for purpose. The purpose that we cannot quantify or qualify in our carnal minds.
  7. seeking the lost

    Last Trump vs The Seventh

    Many times I have said unto you that Jesus is here and active. He identified Himself to John as Rev.1: 8 “I am the Alpha and the Omega,” says the Lord God, “who is, and who was, and who is to come, the Almighty.” Is is very present and active not waiting to be active. It seem that you believe that Jesus comes and starts His reign at the seventh trumpet. At the end of the tribulation we see this of the warrior who is coming from heaven. Rev 19:11 I saw heaven standing open and there before me was a white horse, whose rider is called Faithful and True. With justice he judges and wages war. 12 His eyes are like blazing fire, and on his head are many crowns.He has a name written on him that no one knows but he himself. 13 He is dressed in a robe dipped in blood, and his name is the Word of God.14 The armies of heaven were following him, riding on white horses and dressed in fine linen, white and clean. 15 Coming out of his mouth is a sharp sword with which to strike down the nations. “He will rule them with an iron scepter.”[a] He treads the winepress of the fury of the wrath of God Almighty. 16 On his robe and on his thigh he has this name written: king of kings and lord of lords. 17 And I saw an angel standing in the sun, who cried in a loud voice to all the birds flying in midair, “Come, gather together for the great supper of God, 18 so that you may eat the flesh of kings, generals, and the mighty, of horses and their riders, and the flesh of all people, free and slave,great and small.” 19 Then I saw the beast and the kings of the earth and their armies gathered together to wage war against the rider on the horse and his army. 20 But the beast was captured, and with it the false prophet who had performed the signs on its behalf. With these signs he had deluded those who had received the mark of the beast and worshiped its image.The two of them were thrown alive into the fiery lake of burning sulfur.21 The rest were killed with the sword coming out of the mouth of the rider on the horse, and all the birds gorged themselves on their flesh. This is when He comes and wipes out all those who are marked with the mark of the beast. It is immediately after this that the first resurrection takes place and the thousand years begins. Do you see how chapter 20 follows chapter 19? If all Christians are raised and those who are alive and remain are changed then all are immortal at the seventh trumpet, how is it that any one of them can die? Rev 14: 13 Then I heard a voice from heaven say, “Write this: Blessed are the dead who die in the Lord from now on.” “Yes,” says the Spirit, “they will rest from their labor, for their deeds will follow them.” How do they die?
  8. seeking the lost

    Last Trump vs The Seventh

    Many, many times I have tried to explain the test of Revelation 20:4,5 4 I saw thrones on which were seated those who had been given authority to judge. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of their testimony about Jesus and because of the word of God.They[a] had not worshiped the beast or its image and had not received its mark on their foreheads or their hands. They came to life and reigned with Christ a thousand years. 5 (The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were ended.) This is the first resurrection. There are two resurrections listed here. The first and the rest. The first includes only those who have been beheaded because of their testimony. The second is stated as the rest of the dead. This second resurrection includes all those that were not raised in the first resurrection. The second resurrection is in parenthesis in the text. If you have issue with this take it up with John. Those who have survived the tribulation will be in the millennium and with those who have been raised in the first resurrection. Let's look again at Matthew 24 30 “Then will appear the sign of the Son of Man in heaven. And then all the peoples of the earth[c] will mourn when they see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven, with power and great glory.[d] 31 And he will send his angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather his elect from the four winds, from one end of the heavens to the other. 32 “Now learn this lesson from the fig tree: As soon as its twigs get tender and its leaves come out, you know that summer is near.33 Even so, when you see all these things, you know that it[e] is near, right at the door. 34 Truly I tell you, this generation will certainly not pass away until all these things have happened. 35 Heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will never pass away. You missed the main point of the context. The main point is that heaven and earth will pass away. That is what happens at the end of the thousand years.
  9. seeking the lost

    Tongues

    That is interesting. That would be the gift of the unsaved. As a gift of the Spirit I have not seen that on any list, did you make that up? Could it be possible that Peter spoke in the trade language of that day? That would be Greek.
  10. seeking the lost

    Last Trump vs The Seventh

    Hi inchrist; It has been very interesting looking at all that we have gone back and forth about. This issue presented in Matthew 25 is perhaps key to understanding the different positions that we have. That difference is a difference between judgments on people on the earth and the final judgments that determine eternal destinies. The bowls of wrath are poured out upon people that are living upon the surface of the earth. These judgments are temporary. The judgement at the end of the thousand years is of people that have been raised from the dead that determines where they will spend eternity. Rev. 20:11 Then I saw a great white throne and him who was seated on it. The earth and the heavens fled from his presence, and there was no place for them. 12 And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and books were opened. Another book was opened, which is the book of life. The dead were judged according to what they had done as recorded in the books. 13 The sea gave up the dead that were in it, and death and Hades gave up the dead that were in them, and each person was judged according to what they had done. 14 Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. The lake of fire is the second death.15 Anyone whose name was not found written in the book of life was thrown into the lake of fire. The people that now are standing before the throne are people who have died and were buried and their bodies have seen decay but now they are raised from the dead and separated sheep and goats. Sheep on the right and goats on the left. All are judged by the books that are now opened at the end of the thousand years. Those not whose name is not found in the book of life are now permanent residence in the lake of fire. This is the final judgment of all people that have ever lived on the face of the earth. The end of the thousand years is the time that heaven and earth will flee from His presence. Matthew 24 speaks of it in this way: 34 Truly I tell you, this generation will certainly not pass away until all these things have happened. 35 Heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will never pass away. The Day and Hour Unknown 36 “But about that day or hour no one knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son,[a] but only the Father. Notice in verse 35, heaven and earth will pass away. 2 Peter 3 affirms this. 10 But the day of the Lord will come like a thief. The heavens will disappear with a roar; the elements will be destroyed by fire, and the earth and everything done in it will be laid bare.[a] 11 Since everything will be destroyed in this way, what kind of people ought you to be? You ought to live holy and godly lives 12 as you look forward to the day of God and speed its coming. That day will bring about the destruction of the heavens by fire, and the elements will melt in the heat. 13 But in keeping with his promise we are looking forward to a new heaven and a new earth, where righteousness dwells. New Heaven and new earth are where the people who are in the book of life will dwell for eternity. All will have the incorruptible bodies There is no proof either way. There is not a scripture that says that it is in the millennium or one that says that it is not. My perspective begins with the promise of God to Abraham in Genesis 12. 12 The Lord had said to Abram, “Go from your country, your people and your father’s household to the land I will show you. 2 “I will make you into a great nation, and I will bless you; I will make your name great, and you will be a blessing.[a] 3 I will bless those who bless you, and whoever curses you I will curse; and all peoples on earth will be blessed through you.” What I look for is the nations that bless Israel will be blessed and the nations that curse Israel will be cursed. In my own words beginning now the nation that have recognized Jerusalem as the capitol of Israel will be abundantly blessed. This is still on this side of the Millennium. I spoke to a missionary who had ministered in Venezuela. He told me of the time that Venezuela had blessed Israel and how the oil came out of the ground and great mineral wealth was uncovered with great prosperity. Recently the nation of Venezuela cursed the nation of Israel and now they are on the verge of bankruptcy. The temple will be rebuilt and sacrifices will be offered. Those who come and pay homage will be blessed. This is the system that the anti-christ will step into and offer the abomination that leads to desolation. When he steps in there will not an option or a choice. Part of the deception of the last days will be related to the resurgence of first covenant observance.
  11. seeking the lost

    OSAS... T or F?

    Greetings Yowm; The question remains. Are they still saved?
  12. seeking the lost

    OSAS... T or F?

    Greetings shiloh357; That does not answer the question. Church or individual being spewed out are they still saved?
  13. seeking the lost

    OSAS... T or F?

    If a person becomes lukewarm and is spit out of His mouth, is that person still saved? Rev. 3: 15 I know your deeds, that you are neither cold nor hot. I wish you were either one or the other! 16 So, because you are lukewarm—neither hot nor cold—I am about to spit you out of my mouth. 17 You say, ‘I am rich; I have acquired wealth and do not need a thing.’ But you do not realize that you are wretched, pitiful, poor, blind and naked.
  14. seeking the lost

    Last Trump vs The Seventh

    Yes there are two groups mentioned here but their time line is quite different. The first group is the martyrs that are raised at the beginning of the thousand years and the end of the tribulation. One thousand years later the rest of the dead are raised. The rest of the dead are raise at the end of the thousand years this is the time that earth and heaven fled from His presence. This is the time that the books are opened and the seep and goats are standing before Him. 11 Then I saw a great white throne and him who was seated on it. The earth and the heavens fled from his presence, and there was no place for them. 12 And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and books were opened. Another book was opened, which is the book of life. The dead were judged according to what they had done as recorded in the books. 13 The sea gave up the dead that were in it, and death and Hades gave up the dead that were in them, and each person was judged according to what they had done. 14 Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. The lake of fire is the second death.15 Anyone whose name was not found written in the book of life was thrown into the lake of fire. The time line of making the seventh trumpet the last trumpet requires that you place all these things together and they are no together. The seventh trumpet sounds and a pronouncement is made. The seventh trumpet and the first resurrection are separated by seven bowls of the wrath of God. At the end of the tribulation of these days the first resurrection which is clearly stated to be the tribulation martyrs. These are raised to reign with Christ on the earth for a thousand years. At the end of the thousand years the rest of the dead are raised. This is why I place the last trumpet at the end of the thousand years. The end of the thousand years is the time that the dead in Christ are raised not at the time that the martyrs are raised. The lake of fire time is at the end of the thousand years. The seventh trumpet is followed by the rest of the tribulation which includes the seven bowls. This is recorded in Revelation 15 that in sequence is after chapter 11. 15 I saw in heaven another great and marvelous sign: seven angelswith the seven last plagues—last, because with them God’s wrath is completed. 2 And I saw what looked like a sea of glass glowing with fire and, standing beside the sea, those who had been victorious over the beast and its image and over the number of its name. They held harpsgiven them by God 3 and sang the song of God’s servant Moses and of the Lamb: “Great and marvelous are your deeds, Lord God Almighty. Just and true are your ways, King of the nations.[a] 4 Who will not fear you, Lord, and bring glory to your name? For you alone are holy. All nations will come and worship before you, for your righteous acts have been revealed.” 5 After this I looked, and I saw in heaven the temple—that is, the tabernacle of the covenant law—and it was opened. 6 Out of the temple came the seven angels with the seven plagues. They were dressed in clean, shining linen and wore golden sashes around their chests. 7 Then one of the four living creatures gave to the seven angels seven golden bowls filled with the wrath of God, who lives for ever and ever. 8 And the temple was filled with smoke from the glory of God and from his power, and no one could enter the temple until the seven plagues of the seven angels were completed. The end of the tribulation comes and it is at this time that the martyrs are raised to reign. A thousand years later the rest of the dead are raised. This is the LAST day. The last day of John 6. 39 And this is the will of him who sent me, that I shall lose none of all those he has given me,but raise them up at the last day. 40 For my Father’s will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in him shall have eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day.”
  15. seeking the lost

    OSAS... T or F?

    Thank you for sharing your testimony and asking the question about OSAS. I think of the scripture from 1 John 3 in relation to not feeling like you are saved. 19 And hereby we know that we are of the truth, and shall assure our hearts before him. 20 For if our heart condemn us, God is greater than our heart, and knoweth all things. 21 Beloved, if our heart condemn us not, then have we confidence toward God. Our hearts may condemn but God knows all things. This does not prove anything but God does have a different view than we do. I personally believe that we are saved once and that it is possible to lose that salvation. I believe that because of the work of God, Jesus, and the Holy Spirit it is very difficult to do. Should someone lose their salvation it will be impossible for them to be saved again. Heb. 6: 4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, 5 And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, 6 If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame. God is very patient and long suffering but He has limits.
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